Megathread IDW's Sonic the Hedgehog - Megathread

[Dr. Detective]

 

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, that's hella overblown. And it almost sounds like those people simply hate seeing their character have flaws honestly.

That's a shame.

All jokes about me being a "Sadist" aside (at least I hope it was a joke) the reason I don't get upset by the narrative taking liberties with allowing my favorite characters to suffer a bit is in part because of the potential for conflict and awesome character moments stuff like that can lead to. We talked about this a few pages back, but one of the best potential story ideas concerning Sonic losing his fight against Eggman was rushed towards a resolution that wiped clean any sort of nuance or consequence from what happened before because apparently the mentality that in order for someone to like this character and think he's cool he can never lose and always do awesome shit.  

No. Some of the best parts about a story are when the character is down on their luck and put into an unfortunate position that the audience would like to see them get out of.

Also, I've found it a tremendous help to cherish comedic moments where you can laugh at some of their misfortune too. It's a staple of not taking any kind of folly they suffer through for the sake of slapstick or entertainment as a mark against how much respect or love they might have for that character and just being able to recognize that sometimes funny shit happens to them. And that's all right. 

 

[Dee Dude]

4 minutes ago, Creep Dude said:

Dude, don't let one adaption ruin the experience for you, just skip and move along.

For IDW, I hope we'll get another TTT/PPP/GCC type story for the comics since those were some of my favorites because they all have several things in common.

-It involves teams with interesting interactions and dynamics. (Team Rose, Dark, Chaotix etc.)

-They're primarily about a hunt for an Emerald.(Sol, Chaos)

-Hooligans are involved. (Or just Bean & Bark)

-Several game characters fighting over said Emerald.

-Did I mention Bean & Bark again?

Easily the most fun stories.

Thought I'd repost this so it won't get buried in a Forces debate.

[Diogenes]

3 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

If the lack of the Avatar character and Classic Sonic is somehow enough to discredit it as a Forces adaptation, as opposed to everything else that makes up Forces (i.e. Eggman with Infinite and him taking over the world), then that's just being small-minded and petty.

Lacking 2/3 of the game's playable characters and whatever plot points are reliant on them would probably make for a pretty poor adaptation, though.

At some point you're changing so much you can't reasonably even call it an adaptation anymore.

[Osmium]

I still don't understand why anyone wants a Forces adaptation anyway, haven't you guys had enough of your fucking comic dedicated to Eggman ruling the world? Like the past 20+ years? Christ. 

[Dr. Detective]

I'd like a comic detailing his rise towards conquering the world. I'd find that a bit more interesting than just seeing him already ruling it and watching the dregs he left behind try and take it back.

Although, that sounds more like a fan project sort of thing than something I'd ever expect the official comic to tackle.

 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Lacking 2/3 of the game's playable characters and whatever plot points are reliant on them would probably make for a pretty poor adaptation, though.

At some point you're changing so much you can't reasonably even call it an adaptation anymore.

No, it does not, and this is about the biggest grasp for straws I've seen you reach for to date. Especially when, as it's been said countless times, one of those characters is represents the player and the other is just the the Main character from earlier period (different dimension nonsense aside). The Avatar itself wouldn't be that essential to the general plot of Forces given that detail alone, if they decide not to include him/her.

There are plenty of ways to adapt something like this--missing two characters isn't going to damage that. And if you feel it ruins the adaptation--one which you've never liked from the start, I should add--then that's a personal problem on your end, not the problem with the adaptation.

[Dee Dude]

Forces probably would've aleady happened in the IDWverse just how most of the games already happened in the 252 Archieverse.

It's techinally a win-win, naysayers don't have to experience the adaption and those who do can be glad it already happened.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

No, it does not, and this is about the biggest grasp for straws I've seen you reach for to date. 

Oh you know that's not true, I've grasped at way bigger straws than this.

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Especially when, as it's been said countless times, one of those characters is represents the player and the other is just the the Main character from earlier period (different dimension nonsense aside).

What does that have to do with anything, though? Where the character comes from doesn't mean that their role in the story is any less vital. If, for example, the "Infinite is the Avatar's old friend" theory ends up being true, what do you do with that if there's no Avatar? That's the kind of thing that'd be a major emotional climax in the game, you couldn't just cut it without losing a major story element and severely damaging Infinite's role in the story.

[RedFox99]

Anyways, can we stop with the forces debate please?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

What does that have to do with anything, though? Where the character comes from doesn't mean that their role in the story is any less vital.

Please. What do you honestly believe that Classic Sonic and the Avatar will do, what character traits will the hold, that no other character could fill the role of?

2 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

If, for example, the "Infinite is the Avatar's old friend" theory ends up being true, what do you do with that if there's no Avatar? That's the kind of thing that'd be a major emotional climax in the game, you couldn't just cut it without losing a major story element and severely damaging Infinite's role in the story.

Then IDW makes their own avatar surrogate. Boom. Problem solved. Do you think they wouldn't?

14 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

I still don't understand why anyone wants a Forces adaptation anyway, haven't you guys had enough of your fucking comic dedicated to Eggman ruling the world? Like the past 20+ years? Christ. 

I still don't understand why anyone wanted Sonic Megadrive anyway, haven't you guys had enough of your fucking comic dedicated to Sonic fighting Eggman?

[Osmium]

All I'll say is that I hope there's no Forces adaptation. The last thing we need is to escape a world where Eggman ruling is the cornerstone and go back to exactly that. Fuck that noise. 

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

I still don't understand why anyone wanted Sonic Megadrive anyway, haven't you guys had enough of your fucking comic dedicated to Sonic fighting Eggman?

Except one is what the series is based on and the other isn't. There's a difference buddy. 

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

Oh you know that's not true, I've grasped at way bigger straws than this.

Good for you.

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

What does that have to do with anything, though? Where the character comes from doesn't mean that their role in the story is any less vital. If, for example, the "Infinite is the Avatar's old friend" theory ends up being true, what do you do with that if there's no Avatar? That's the kind of thing that'd be a major emotional climax in the game, you couldn't just cut it without losing a major story element and severely damaging Infinite's role in the story.

I doubt that theory will even end up being true given what we've seen of Infinite's possible origins, but on the off chance it does they can stick to Eggman with Infinite at his side to conquer the world and find something to make up for that element lost. 

I still don't see why you of all people would find that such a big issue when you hardly like anything about Forces anyway.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

2 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

Except one is what the series is based on and the other isn't. There's a difference buddy. 

Except the adaptation would be based on Forces. A part of the series. AKA, on some level, part of what the comic is based on. The same is true for everything about the series narrative. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean it doesn't belong.

[JosepHenry]

Infinite and Avatar are the only new characters from Forces, right?

I wouldn't mind if they brought the Red Wolf to the comics along with Infinite, with the changes needed for it to not be an adaptation. I'm pretty sure Infinite will appear at least if he turns into a good guy.

Like a story arc of the Red Wolf asking Sonic and Friends for help because his friend got corrupted. But without Eggman taking over the world.

[Dr. Detective]

I'd rather there not be adaptations of stories from the games.

I want them to use the game's world as the default position to start from and then go from there so that they can stand as their own thing.

I don't need bootleg versions of stories I'll already know the outcome of.

 

[Razule]

3 minutes ago, ShroomZed said:

All I'll say is that I hope there's no Forces adaptation. The last thing we need is to escape a world where Eggman ruling is the cornerstone and go back to exactly that. Fuck that noise. 

The continuity where Eggman actually ruled the world ended in 2013.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Is it really a bootleg when the comic version would almost assuredly be better? Is it like a hydrox-oreo situation?

[Celestia]

They could very easily come up with their own character to fill the Avatar's role. They're definitely going to have new characters either way for supporting roles and probably villains and all that. And I can't see Classic being so incredibly vital to the plot that you couldn't write around that. Half the fun of adaptations is what they do differently anyway, as long as the differences are good.

That said, I'm not expecting adaptations. Maybe something like the out-of-comics-continuity "in another time, in another place" backup stories that'd pop up whenever there was a new game? SEGA seemed perfectly happy with just that, and while I'm expecting this to be different from Archie Sonic, that much will probably stay the same. Ian'll definitely be taking ideas from new installments of course but (especially if they're really free to build their own world here) they won't necessarily be the same as they were in the games.

[Diogenes]

15 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Please. What do you honestly believe that Classic Sonic and the Avatar will do, what character traits will the hold, that no other character could fill the role of?

Any number of things. I already gave one possible example. I can't exactly give more specific examples since we don't know much about the story, but acting as if major characters are trivially replaceable sounds like someone seeing trailers for SA2 and deciding that this Shadow guy isn't actually important to the story and they can just stick Metal Sonic or Vector or whoever in his place.

Honestly it sounds like you've got even less faith in Forces' story than me if you think the characters are that interchangeable.

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Then IDW makes their own avatar. Boom. Problem solved. Do you think they wouldn't?

Yes that is, in fact, the obvious answer that I myself gave last page. (e: well okay I said they'd probably use red wolf and maybe some secondary OCs but whatever, point is we all know the obvious answer is that they would use an Avatar character) But this is about if there wasn't an Avatar character at all.

11 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I doubt that theory will even end up being true given what we've seen of Infinite's possible origins, but on the off chance it does they can stick to Eggman with Infinite at his side to conquer the world and find something to make up for that element lost. 

So not really adapting Forces so much as making up a new story with some scattered bits and pieces of Forces.

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I still don't see why you of all people would find that such a big issue when you hardly like anything about Forces anyway.

It's because I actually have some degree of respect for storytelling as an art form, and I don't think blindly taking a hatchet to a story is how you make them better.

[DiamondX]

I don't get what's the problem with a Forces comic besides you guys not liking the game.

You hate a story we barely know and that's it.

 

It would be great for them to do an adaptation of the latest Sonic game.

But noooo, we all need Mega Drive back to get even more Classic Sonic, because we didn't see him get attention this year. Let's stick to nostalgia instead of trying new things.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

 

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So not really adapting Forces so much as making up a new story with some scattered bits and pieces of Forces.

That's essentially an adaptation. 

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It's because I actually have some degree of respect for storytelling as an art form, and I don't think blindly taking a hatchet to a story is how you make them better.

Well if that's the case, how about you actually read what people are actually saying or asking about the story instead of starting another potshot at Forces and strawmaning people's points as "blindly taking a hatchet" to something for suggesting they find a way to work around something to make an adaptation?

[Dr. Detective]

1 hour ago, Shaddy the guy said:

Is it really a bootleg when the comic version would almost assuredly be better? Is it like a hydrox-oreo situation?

Eh.

That depends on how you view revisiting the same material again. I liked somethings about the Unleashed comic adaptation in comparison to the original... but there were also things about the original that I enjoyed more. Namely how the ending panned out. I greatly prefer the way the game felt when it hit its climax far more than what the comic did. It was virtually almost the same but it definitely didn't feel as special for a number of small things that when added up, made for not as thrilling or as emotional an end. I remember that last issue where they were all mourning Chip feeling both overdone and hollow at the same time for instance.

However, ultimately, I'd just prefer not to do any retreads period. I don't even really care if they can "make them better" as I'd still prefer new stories. Or if you must adapt them, have the decency to keep it short enough and different enough for it to not matter too much. Situations where new elements the games introduced were to be included into the comic wouldn't need to remain completely tied to the exact story that was told by the game in order for it to function properly. The Deadly Six, for example, if you were going to use them, probably wouldn't need any of what happened in Lost World to take place for whatever they could provide to be introduced correctly.

The Unleashed adaptation was certainly different in some areas. Not enough in a few others but at the end of the day I enjoyed it fine. I still find myself in the position of wanting to avoid something like it for a long while though. Most likely because of just how long it was, admittedly.

[Diogenes]

1 minute ago, Limit Breaker Diamond said:

I don't get what's the problem with a Forces comic besides you guys not liking the game.

Short version:

1. Forces sucks.
2. The comic's not even starting until months after Forces comes out, well past the point where it can actually reasonably promote the game.
3. The comic's better served by establishing its own world early on rather than trying to adapt games.
4. Forces has a reasonably large cast of returning characters (on both the Resistance and Team Evil) and expects you to know about them and their history, but a new comic isn't going to have even a fraction of those characters well established any time soon.
5. Forces sucks.

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

That's essentially an adaptation. 

Likely a shitty one considering how little resemblance it'd have to what it's supposedly trying to adapt.

1 minute ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Well if that's the case, how about you actually read what people are actually saying or asking about the story instead of strawmaning them as "blindly taking a hatchet" to something for suggesting they find a way to work around something to make an adaptation.

Because we're at a point where people are suggesting that not having two of the game's main characters isn't going to have any meaningful effect on an adaptation of the game and that's just nonsense.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

18 minutes ago, Celestia said:

That said, I'm not expecting adaptations. Maybe something like the out-of-comics-continuity "in another time, in another place" backup stories that'd pop up whenever there was a new game? SEGA seemed perfectly happy with just that, and while I'm expecting this to be different from Archie Sonic, that much will probably stay the same. Ian'll definitely be taking ideas from new installments of course but (especially if they're really free to build their own world here) they won't necessarily be the same as they were in the games.

Yup I gotten the impression the IDW comics will have it's own continuity that only uses the game world as a base from what they said in one of the last interviews. I don't think they will be doing many exact game story adaptations... Which honestly is the best way to go about it to me if true. I don't want to read pure game adaptation stories. They'd be better then the games... sure... But I'd prefer all new stories where I don't know what is coming next.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Yes that is, in fact, the obvious answer that I myself gave last page. But this is about if there wasn't an Avatar character at all.

Okay well why are you arguing the point I already made against a point I didn't

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Any number of things. I already gave one possible example. I can't exactly give more specific examples since we don't know much about the story, but acting as if major characters are trivially replaceable sounds like someone seeing trailers for SA2 and deciding that this Shadow guy isn't actually important to the story and they can just stick Metal Sonic or Vector or whoever in his place.

Because I don't actually expect them to characterize the Avatar or Classic at all? Forces isn't SA2. Modern Sonic doesn't have major characters who aren't Sonic, Tails and Eggman. Don't feign ignorance like this story is going to be better than it is just to pretend the likely-better adaptation has no way to be good.

17 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

It's because I actually have some degree of respect for storytelling as an art form, and I don't think blindly taking a hatchet to a story is how you make them better.

If the story is apparently as bad as you believe it to be, why would you take anything but the most absolute measure to improve upon it? If the original story sucks, there's no reason to keep it similar just to pay respects or whatever. You think I wouldn't completely axe Elise from 06's story if I rewrote it? A good adaptation takes every liberty it needs to to be as good as it can be. The purpose is to make something good, not something exactly the same as the original. Because if you want something exactly the same as the original, you have the fucking video game.

Wanting adaptations to take no liberties is not respecting storytelling, it's downright regressive.