Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Sonikko]

37 minutes ago, Marcello said:

Since we're still talking about the power of consoles, to get everyone on the same page, the power rankings look like this:

Xbox > GCN > PS2 > DC

PS3 > 360 > Wii (However, the 360 was easier to develop for than the PS3, which cause a lot of multiplatform games to run better on it)

Scorpio > PS4 Pro > PS4 > XBO S > XBO > Switch > Wii U

Force won't run on last gen systems without major downgrades. The Switch version will also have to be downgraded, though not as much. The biggest worry is the framerate being dropped down to 30 similar to Snake Pass, I think. Image quality, resolution, view distance and stuff like that are almost definitely going to take hits.

That's correct. The Switch version is probably going to get a hit on LoD, Resolution, Lighting if it's not pre-baked, Reflections, all those fancy things, especially if they're going for locked 60fps as it looked like from the Nintendo Direct. But hey, it's going to be portable too, buying games on Switch is a trade off in performance, but you can bring the console anywhere.

I'll get the PC version, hope they give us more choice with the graphic options this time around, even if I don't expect anything beyond the bare minimum, resolution, vsync and maybe some on-off option for effects, without quality settings.

37 minutes ago, Marcello said:

I wouldn't trust Dimps to make a Sonic game half as good as Advance 2 anymore. That image is nice looking, though I hate the black outlines on the scenery. IT gives things a fake look.

As you said, Dimps hasn't put out a good Sonic game since the DS titles, and even then, quality was debatable. I'd argue that the Advance games were very good, but the staff members that worked on those are pretty much all gone, so it's the same Dimps just in name.

I like the black outlines though, it gives the game some sort of drawn look, I love it.

 

EDIT:

Haven't seen this pointed out, but what is that yellow platform? Some kind of bonus thing? Looks out of place. There's two of them relatively close

From the official channel footage, not the Nintendo Direct.

 

This orange thing too, on the top left just before that golden platform.

 

[Meta77]

My fears. This game will be a 6.5 to a 7. Sega will learn noting and you know why? This entire thread. And people like cobimans young young fan base than blindly follow his hype over how amazing rehashed hill zone is.  blind fanboynism does no one any good. While some point out flaws they see or elements that should be changed.  While the others are praising this as a technical gem. Honestly I doubt Sega care about criticism and just goes with their own flow

[Blue Blood]

The Switch version will be visually inferior. It's a certainty because the system is nowhere near as powerful as the other consoles of this generation. Framerate, resolution, particle effects, lighting and a lot of other areas are likely to be simplified, as Sonikko said.

Speaking of lighting - despite what Iizuka said about the HE2, GHZ definitely looks like it's pre-baked to me. It's particularly noticeable with the sandfalls in the near background that look entirely flat. And if not, then who decided that it looks okay? If the game really is using real time lighting for the environments, then I hope we get some effective use of it. The Hedgehog Engine used from Unleashed through to Lost World was pre-baked specifically to significantly reduce the amount of strain when constantly loading and unloading environment chunks.

[Chris Knopps]

31 minutes ago, Blue Blood said:

Speaking of lighting - despite what Iizuka said about the HE2, GHZ definitely looks like it's pre-baked to me. It's particularly noticeable with the sandfalls in the near background that look entirely flat. And if not, then who decided that it looks okay? If the game really is using real time lighting for the environments, then I hope we get some effective use of it. The Hedgehog Engine used from Unleashed through to Lost World was pre-baked specifically to significantly reduce the amount of strain when constantly loading and unloading environment chunks.

It'd be nice if it looked more like grains of sand falling instead of a generic sand colored wall.

Edit

Then again... I guess it would be too much realism and wouldn't match what they're going for.

[Lord-Dreamerz]

30 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

It'd be nice if it looked more like grains of sand falling instead of a generic sand colored wall.

Edit

Then again... I guess it would be too much realism and wouldn't match what they're going for.

Not if they made it semi-big cubes of sand falling.

[Chris Knopps]

8 minutes ago, Lord-Dreamerz said:

Not if they made it semi-big cubes of sand falling.

That would make the game too digital looking I'd think.

Unless the truth behind the game is both versions of Sonic being trapped inside Eggman's data...

[Lord-Dreamerz]

55 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

That would make the game too digital looking I'd think.

Unless the truth behind the game is both versions of Sonic being trapped inside Eggman's data...

You say that when most of the landscape is checkerboard patterns and other square shapes? The whole theme of the level here is kinda toybox/game looking world. So I don't think it'd look to out of place.

[pppp]

One thing that I'm wondering: Morio Kishimoto directed Colors while Hiroshi Miyamoto directed Generations. After that he directed Lost World(2013) and is also the director of Forces. If Forces has been in development for as long as we think than that means Kishimoto was directing 2 Sonic games at the same time at some point.

Why have him direct Forces? I would have liked to see Miyamoto direct a game that isn't just levels from past games to see what he would deliver. Yes Generations had problems but if there was something in that game that was a sucess was the level design. There was room for improvement yeah, but overall the level design especially Modern Seaside Hill was really good and a solid foundation to expand upon.

Kishimoto on the other hand took Generations and had it take a huge leap backwards in level design if Green Hill is anything to go by. Gens Green Hill is by no means brilliant, but still much more interesting than Forces Green Hill.

[Red Hot Jack]

2 hours ago, Meta77 said:

My fears. This game will be a 6.5 to a 7. Sega will learn noting and you know why? This entire thread. And people like cobimans young young fan base than blindly follow his hype over how amazing rehashed hill zone is.  blind fanboynism does no one any good. While some point out flaws they see or elements that should be changed.  While the others are praising this as a technical gem. Honestly I doubt Sega care about criticism and just goes with their own flow

Thanks, so I'm a blind fanboy if I genuinely enjoy the game? Why do you think there can only be one valid opinion? I think you are all very selfish here, even wanting the game to fail because you don't like, ignoring other people's tastes. I get that you're very demanding and hard to please, you just want the perfect Sonic game, but there is no such a thing as the perfect Sonic game, not even Mania is like that, even though it appeals to you very strict classic fans, it's not as appealing for everyone, but I'm still gonna play it and support it like everyone, because it lets me play as Tails and Knuckles, plus the new zones look rather creative.

[Meta77]

15 minutes ago, Chameleon94 said:

Thanks, so I'm a blind fanboy if I genuinely enjoy the game? Why do you think there can only be one valid opinion? I think you are all very selfish here, even wanting the game to fail because you don't like, ignoring other people's tastes. I get that you're very demanding and hard to please, you just want the perfect Sonic game, but there is no such a thing as the perfect Sonic game, not even Mania is like that, even though it appeals to you very strict classic fans, it's not as appealing for everyone, but I'm still gonna play it and support it like everyone, because it lets me play as Tails and Knuckles, plus the new zones look rather creative.

Sir first off you don't know me. So get that pole out your bum. But you just proved my point to some extent. If a game is bad or has flaws people are pointing out that  does not make any of us selfish. If anything it's that naive attitude of I'll supporting it regardless is why 06 was shoved out for a Christmas launch. By blindly supporting a game and accepting everything means Sega will not learn it means they will continue to shovel out mediocre 3d games because some are giddy for anything with sonic face on it. And this is forces your tie in of mania characters has no bearing here

[Red Hot Jack]

3 minutes ago, Meta77 said:

Sir first off you don't know me. So get that pole out your bum. But you just proved my point to some extent. If a game is bad or has flaws people are pointing out that  does not make any of us selfish. If anything it's that naive attitude of I'll supporting it regardless is why 06 was shoved out for a Christmas launch. By blindly supporting a game and accepting everything means Sega will not learn it means they will continue to shovel out mediocre 3d games because some are giddy for anything with sonic face on it. And this is forces your tie in of mania characters has no bearing here

You're missing the point, you are also stating as a fact that is game is 06 levels of bad, which it's not. It has flaws sure, but as I said there is no perfect Sonic game, and I'm not accepting everything, thank you very much, I didn't accept Sonic '06, Sonic 4 and I didn't even buy Sonic Boom, Why can't you be more constructive with your criticism instead of wishing for the game to fail? Forces is not the best Sonic game, but Generations was one of my favorites, so I don't mind another one with (hopefully) new stages, it looks like a fun game, I'm sure I'll have fun with it, and I don't see why it's a wrong attitude.

[Chris Knopps]

Hey! Lets have some fun!

Sonic strolling through armaggedon in Forces while listening to some Dragonforce rock.

[StaticMania]

8 minutes ago, Chameleon94 said:

Why can't you be more constructive with your criticism instead of wishing for the game to fail?

Nobody wants Sonic the Hedgehog: Forces to fail, mang. They want Sonic Team to learn their lesson and not get the wrong idea from critics, which can't happen if the game does too good or if the game just outright fails. But there's no middle ground that can actually be achieved...so it doesn't really matter.

[Sonikko]

I think nobody here wants to see a Sonic game fail, that would be bad for the franchise and nothing good would come out of it.

What I think some are expressing, is their desire of the game to still sell reasonably, but have its flaws pointed out, kinda like Sonic 4 Episode II was received.

Sonic 4 Episode I got a free pass from the critics because "2D Sonic is back, totally like the classics" etc, but its second episode did not deliver, it was pretty much the same, very little improvements, and it got the reviews it actually deserved, 60-70 score.

What I'd like is Forces to sell ok, around 1m copies, maybe more, but for it to get around 60-65 metacritic score, so that Sonic Team understands that there's a market for Sonic, they just need to up their game. (All of this IF the game is mediocre-average, if the game deserves a high score because it actually turns out to be fantastic, then so be it, I'd be happy about it. Nobody wants a great Sonic game more than I do, I'm not certainly hoping for a Sonic game to fail!)

 

[Chris Knopps]

1 hour ago, Sonikko said:

I think nobody here wants to see a Sonic game fail, that would be bad for the franchise and nothing good would come out of it.

What I think some are expressing, is their desire of the game to still sell reasonably, but have its flaws pointed out, kinda like Sonic 4 Episode II was received.

Sonic 4 Episode I got a free pass from the critics because "2D Sonic is back, totally like the classics" etc, but its second episode did not deliver, it was pretty much the same, very little improvements, and it got the reviews it actually deserved, 60-70 score.

What I'd like is Forces to sell ok, around 1m copies, maybe more, but for it to get around 60-65 metacritic score, so that Sonic Team understands that there's a market for Sonic, they just need to up their game. (All of this IF the game is mediocre-average, if the game deserves a high score because it actually turns out to be fantastic, then so be it, I'd be happy about it. Nobody wants a great Sonic game more than I do, I'm not certainly hoping for a Sonic game to fail!)

Given the overall community reaction I'd say popular reviewers like IGN will feed into the "Argh!! Screw Green Hill!!" trend going on so their coverage gets clicks, and since critics seem to be SEGA's prime focus, as I've mentioned before, in an indirect way they will also listen to us somewhat and make the next game without any nostalgia perhaps.

I dunno... Who knows?

[Jango]

TBH, I can already see the critics being positive about Green Hill, saying shit like "you can even play the levels from times when Sonic didn't sucked"...

 

As for the whole, "how do you feel about Sonic Forces?" thing, I gonna be totally honest with you guys:

I'm not excited for it. As in *just thinking about Sonic Forces makes me smile*, something that happens everytime I think about my girlfriend Sonic Mania and Crash N.Sane Trilogy. Despite everything, I still do look forward and think it's rather early to make HUGE assumptions about the game. I saw this happening throughout the years here a lot. Some people say Sonic Team didn't learned anything. Well, neither did you. Don't judge the game by its first level. You might say: "b-but I have reasons to do so, usually design philosophy is extended through the whole game and yadda yadda yadda boost pads sux!". Look. If you already didn't liked the boost gameplay, you're not gonna like this, I guarantee, as I know you didn't even liked the more open stages in Generations. As for 2D gameplay, Mania is your guy. And God knows what the hell is going to be the third gameplay style. Maybe you actually should look forward to this instead. Perhaps what you want is one third of the game, hm? Sorry but, geez. I can't outright say something is going to fail/suck like that, even with some "evidences". Sure shit is looking pretty smelly right now. But... please.

Let's wait and see. If the game do sucks like ya're all sayin', well... I'll be damned, partner!

[Scar]

6 hours ago, Blue Blood said:

The Switch version will be visually inferior. It's a certainty because the system is nowhere near as powerful as the other consoles of this generation. Framerate, resolution, particle effects, lighting and a lot of other areas are likely to be simplified, as Sonikko said.

Speaking of lighting - despite what Iizuka said about the HE2, GHZ definitely looks like it's pre-baked to me. It's particularly noticeable with the sandfalls in the near background that look entirely flat. And if not, then who decided that it looks okay? If the game really is using real time lighting for the environments, then I hope we get some effective use of it. The Hedgehog Engine used from Unleashed through to Lost World was pre-baked specifically to significantly reduce the amount of strain when constantly loading and unloading environment chunks.

Real-time lighting would be pretty based to be honest. That City level with its sunset lighting is hnnnnnggggg. Need to see more. Pls Sonic Team. Please at least get the visuals right (60fps kthxbai). 

[Kintor]

4 hours ago, Sonikko said:

What I'd like is Forces to sell ok, around 1m copies, maybe more, but for it to get around 60-65 metacritic score, so that Sonic Team understands that there's a market for Sonic, they just need to up their game. (All of this IF the game is mediocre-average, if the game deserves a high score because it actually turns out to be fantastic, then so be it, I'd be happy about it. Nobody wants a great Sonic game more than I do, I'm not certainly hoping for a Sonic game to fail!)

Even 1m copies for Sonic Forces would be a major victory for the Sonic franchise. Compared to the sales of Lost World, which maybe only sold at best 700,000. Not to mention Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice, which didn't even chart. So having Sonic Forces break into the 1m+ range is going to strongly encourage Sega to keep making more games like it. When the bar is so low thanks to recent misfires Sonic Forces is virtually guaranteed to be a smash hit in the eyes of Sega.

As for how I think the game will do? I can easily see Sonic Forces achieving the kind of 2m-3m range of Sonic Generations. Although, if the rumoured character creator is actually a thing then Sonic Forces might get into the 5m-10m range. Of course, the problem is that digital sales (which are a big share of the market today) aren't published like weekly retail charts. We might have to wait to Sega's next applicable quarterly or annual financial report to find out exactly how well Sonic Forces is tracking.

[Chris Knopps]

13 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Even 1m copies for Sonic Forces would be a major victory for the Sonic franchise. Compared to the sales of Lost World, which maybe only sold at best 700,000. Not to mention Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice, which didn't even chart. So having Sonic Forces break into the 1m+ range is going to strongly encourage Sega to keep making more games like it. When the bar is so low thanks to recent misfires Sonic Forces is virtually guaranteed to be a smash hit in the eyes of Sega.

As for how I think the game will do? I can easily see Sonic Forces achieving the kind of 2m-3m range of Sonic Generations. Although, if the rumoured character creator is actually a thing then Sonic Forces might get into the 5m-10m range. Of course, the problem is that digital sales (which are a big share of the market today) aren't published like weekly retail charts. We might have to wait to Sega's next applicable quarterly or annual financial report to find out exactly how well Sonic Forces is tracking.

Pardon the French but...

Daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamn dude...

I do admit, I've got to commend that sort of thinking.

[Dejimon11]

31 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Even 1m copies for Sonic Forces would be a major victory for the Sonic franchise. Compared to the sales of Lost World, which maybe only sold at best 700,000. Not to mention Sonic Boom: Fire & Ice, which didn't even chart. So having Sonic Forces break into the 1m+ range is going to strongly encourage Sega to keep making more games like it. When the bar is so low thanks to recent misfires Sonic Forces is virtually guaranteed to be a smash hit in the eyes of Sega.

As for how I think the game will do? I can easily see Sonic Forces achieving the kind of 2m-3m range of Sonic Generations. Although, if the rumoured character creator is actually a thing then Sonic Forces might get into the 5m-10m range. Of course, the problem is that digital sales (which are a big share of the market today) aren't published like weekly retail charts. We might have to wait to Sega's next applicable quarterly or annual financial report to find out exactly how well Sonic Forces is tracking.

Yeah gonna stop you there that's not happening. The highest selling Sonic game(not counting Re-releases or mobile) is Sonic 2 with 6 million and this was when the franchise was at the top of it's game. Man freaken Mario Odyssey is going to sell more than this despite being on less consoles. Seriously there's being a fan of the franchise and then there's deceiving yourself. 

[Kintor]

18 minutes ago, Dejimon11 said:

Yeah gonna stop you there that's not happening. The highest selling Sonic game(not counting Re-releases or mobile) is Sonic 2 with 6 million and this was when the franchise was at the top of it's game. Man freaken Mario Odyssey is going to sell more than this despite being on less consoles. Seriously there's being a fan of the franchise and then there's deceiving yourself. 

You should read my post again. My real bet for Sonic Forces is the 2m-3m range, like Sonic Generations. The whole 5m-10m range is a reference to earlier discussions about the potential of a character creation system. As I've said before, a character creator could be a huge sales boost to Sonic Forces, especially if it gets picked-up by major YouTube and Twitch streamers. The whole 10m idea reflects those most extreme outcomes, as Sonic Forces becomes an impulse purchase for people who might not otherwise show interest in Sonic games, thanks to a robust and fun character creator system. Which is certainly doable given the combine userbase of PS4, Xbox One and PC, in addition to the few sales that might be gained from the Switch.

[Milo]

On 5/1/2017 at 4:30 PM, Kintor said:

Conversely Sonic Mania, for all its charm, is not a classic Sonic game even if it looks like one. Sonic Mania is something new, a modern Sonic game seeking to match the classic games much like Sonic 4 before it. Whether or not the reviewers chose to judge Sonic Mania on its own merit or simply deduct points because it’s a new Sonic game remains to be seen.

It's been said the lion's share of levels for Sonic Mania will be repurposed levels from the past Genesis games, and the game's graphics / aesthetics are a full-on throwback to that era of games, a la Megaman 9/10. If you're saying it's not a guaranteed classic game, that's one thing; but it's definitely not trying to be "something new" or "a modern Sonic game seeking to match the classics" in the vein of Sonic 4 and its ilk. Mania is the definition of a retraux game.

1 hour ago, Kintor said:

I can easily see Sonic Forces achieving the kind of 2m-3m range of Sonic Generations. Although, if the rumoured character creator is actually a thing then Sonic Forces might get into the 5m-10m range. Of course, the problem is that digital sales (which are a big share of the market today) aren't published like weekly retail charts. We might have to wait to Sega's next applicable quarterly or annual financial report to find out exactly how well Sonic Forces is tracking.

Sega's IR reports put Generations' sales at 1.85 million in the fiscal year of the game's release. It didn't reach 2 million sales when it was initially released. Maybe it did eventually reach that milestone, but the game didn't that amount sell fast enough to appear on that or later Sega IR reports afterwards.

Moreover, Generations' sales in Sega's FY IR reports are less than the preceding Colors (2.06M) and even Unleashed (2.45M). The subsequent sales of Lost World and Boom games were no better (quality notwithstanding). And Unleashed in particular (alongside the original Sonic Adventure at 2.5M units) is actually to be the peak of the sales of mainline Sonic game's sales, outside of Sonic 1/2. Sales of Sonic games have been historically been in decline for years.

[Kintor]

1 minute ago, Gabe said:

Sega's IR reports put Generations' sales at 1.85 million in its fiscal year. It didn't reach 2 million sales when it was first released. Maybe it did eventually reach that milestone, but the game didn't that amount sell fast enough to appear on later Sega IR reports afterwards.

Those initial sales figures don't take into account the digital market, which are never officially publishes, least of all in the first few months of retail. Nevertheless, Sonic Generations has done extremely well on the PC, it's one of the main reasons that Sega has been porting so many console games to PC and seeing further success. Not to mention the continued retail sales of Sonic Generations in the years since release, it may not be full price but it still counts.

After all, Sonic games aren't always the bestselling day 1 hits but they maintain strong momentum long after wards, that's how even something like Sonic 06 eventually became a platinum/best seller title. So to make the final tally of Sonic Generations into the 2-3m range is a fair estimate, once you take into account the whole post launch period which has always been the mainstay of the Sonic franchise. I expect similar success for Sonic Forces, the 2-3m (life time range) is a good target to aim for.

[Captain Fun]

6 minutes ago, Kintor said:

After all, Sonic games aren't always the bestselling day 1 hits but they maintain strong momentum long after wards,

If only Sonic could do the same in these new games am I right? *ba dum tsss*

EDIT: To not be a total shitpost, I think Generations-esque sales would be the absolute minimum to shoot for. Although I've always wondered how much it takes to make one of these games profitable. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

34 minutes ago, Kintor said:

Which is certainly doable given the combine userbase of PS4, Xbox One and PC, in addition to the few sales that might be gained from the Switch.

You just can't help yourself can you?