Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Shadowlax]

Lost worlds story ( and gameplay ) being not great has nothing to with its country of origin, I feel like that game could have come from anywhere. Nothing about knuckles and shadow has to do much with their country of origin either , considering they are popular all over the damn planet with both genders. You seem to be stereotyping genders, and entire countries of people, trying to come up with an explanation that is frankly a hell of a lot more complicated than just that. Something that has been a problem with sonic for a good while.

Sega, sonic team, whoever doesn't know how to take criticism and apply that to game design, besides taking it absolutely literally and to its extreme.  

And that might seem like a succinct explanation, but in full its very complicated. And its a very bad problem. 

[Diogenes]

8 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Knuckles appeals to the Japanese love for your stereotypical strong = dumb character and Shadow is just your usual edgy/kawaii hybrid that makes various girl factions scream. You see it pretty often in anime and it's likely attempts to get the ever failing Japanese markets into Sonic that resulted in Lost World.

Man big strong dumb guys and edgy badasses are pretty much universal. And if they're trying so hard to appeal to Japanese tastes, why do the biggest moves they've done recently all involve bringing Westerners into the process? Pontac and Graff, everything to do with Boom, Taxman and co for Mania...

[Chris Knopps]

38 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Man big strong dumb guys and edgy badasses are pretty much universal. And if they're trying so hard to appeal to Japanese tastes, why do the biggest moves they've done recently all involve bringing Westerners into the process? Pontac and Graff, everything to do with Boom, Taxman and co for Mania...

I'm not really speaking about projects currently in development, I'm speaking from past experiences already on shelves.

As far as bringing western writers into the process, it's pretty much fact that the writers don't exactly have much freedom. They follow pin-point guidelines put forth by Sonic Team/SoJ for the most part in the games if I'm not mistaken. As far as their work with BOOM...

I... I really don't know about BOOM... It's just there. I never really understand what/who it's going for and it seems like those behind the show are struggling with this issue as well... Aren't they bringing in other characters from the franchise to suddenly appeal more to long-time Sonic fans now? Haven't been following it... I know Fire and Ice was pushed more for long-time fans since going for "not Sonic fans" didn't work so hot...

I dunno... Maybe it's a can I shouldn't open... I apologize.

[Diogenes]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I'm not really speaking about projects currently in development, I'm speaking from past experiences already on shelves.

Mania's the only thing I mentioned that's not already out there on the shelves. And regardless, if you're proposing that this is an ongoing thing, the stuff currently in production is as valid as evidence as anything else.

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As far as bringing western writers into the process, it's pretty much fact that the writers don't exactly have much freedom. They follow pin-point guidelines put forth by Sonic Team/SoJ for the most part in the games if I'm not mistaken.

They obviously don't have absolute freedom with the series, but they have some amount of input greater than zero. If Sega/Sonic Team was actually trying to make the series appeal more to a Japanese audience, wouldn't it make far more sense for them to hire Japanese writers, who would be far more likely to understand what a Japanese audience would want from the series, than to hire a bunch of Western talent and try to corral them into making what they think Japanese fans want?

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

As far as their work with BOOM...

I... I really don't know about BOOM... It's just there. I never really understand what/who it's going for

I think "not Japanese audiences" is a pretty safe bet, though.

[Chris Knopps]

13 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

Mania's the only thing I mentioned that's not already out there on the shelves. And regardless, if you're proposing that this is an ongoing thing, the stuff currently in production is as valid as evidence as anything else.

They obviously don't have absolute freedom with the series, but they have some amount of input greater than zero. If Sega/Sonic Team was actually trying to make the series appeal more to a Japanese audience, wouldn't it make far more sense for them to hire Japanese writers, who would be far more likely to understand what a Japanese audience would want from the series, than to hire a bunch of Western talent and try to corral them into making what they think Japanese fans want?

I think "not Japanese audiences" is a pretty safe bet, though.

Oh, it does. I'm not saying that. Both the Mania and P17 titles actually look/feel like they have more of a Western focus recent games have been lacking.

That's essentially what I think they've been doing. Western writers following more Japanese-oriented expectations for the plot/cast and such. Granted that notion doesn't make much sense, but I just think of the situation as having worked that way.

BOOM isn't of course. It's just... Kind of... I suppose saying "doing its own thing" is the best line to use? It's an experiment for experiments sake I guess.

I think the two main titles guilty of following too strongly a Japanese preference are Colors and Lost World because of the general kawaii factor of both games, which was pushed remarkably in Lost World in comparison. It follows something of a hybrid direction between NiGHTS and perhaps Miku in a way because of all the lighthearted color and overbearing fantasy elements involved.

As a NiGHTS game I think Lost World is definitely worth loving and has potential, but as a Sonic game it's just kind of awkward. But that follows my idea that perhaps due to their lack of freedom, Sonic Team puts ideas clearly meant for other franchises into Sonic since it's kind of all they can work on for the most part. Keeps the flavor from getting too stale and for that... I guess I can't fault them.

[JingleBoy]

On 02/02/2017 at 10:54 PM, Mayor D said:

One of Hoshino's charaters (Metal Sonic, Amy, Shadow), will likely have a cameo in the game.

*teased via twitch*

Seriously hoping that in this case "cameo" was just a mistranslation of "appearance". If it is just going to be a minor role though, then I'm seriously hoping it's Shadow; I've always thought he'd become the most shoehorned character after Adventure 2.

[Kellan]

54 minutes ago, JingleBoy said:

Seriously hoping that in this case "cameo" was just a mistranslation of "appearance".

The question was asked in English, by Aaron Webber. Unfortunately, I don't think it'd be a mistranslation.

[Marcello]

By cameo, I'm guessing they're talking about something on the level of Generations' characters.

[BubbleButt TV]

On 2/2/2017 at 10:54 PM, Mayor D said:

One of Hoshino's charaters (Metal Sonic, Amy, Shadow), will likely have a cameo in the game.

*teased via twitch*

I read the word cameo and immediately got concerned, but having just watched the clip, I don't think this is anything to be worried about. Hoshino basically gave a cheeky "wait and see", which doesn't essentially mean that it'll be limited to just a cameo at all. It wouldn't make sense for Amy to be delegated to a cameo appearance, especially considering the type of story they're wanting to tell this time around.

 

[Chris Knopps]

Considering it was confirmed by Aaron that it's only going to be Sonic in games from Sonic Team until they supposedly "perfect" his game play first, you're probably not getting more out of anyone else for another good... Well, being honest, if this is what they're going for we may never see any other characters given more than cameo's again from Sonic Team.

Now as far as stuff from SoA... Thank god for Whitehead, at least we'll get other characters from the Western side of things.

I expect eventually Sonic Team will throw their hands up and put other characters in even if Sonic still sucks just because of the high demand and potential lack of interest/sales otherwise as Solo-Sonic grows more and more stale no matter how greatly, or the opposite, Sonic plays.

[Cakito]

Back to wondering and guessing about the story vs. gameplay, for now I am imagining that when sonic gets back to the future with its counterpart (after Eggman sending modern sonic to the past), both of them only see destruction and chaos at the city and start running - and when you jump from level to level, a character who we already know appear in a post-apocaliptic clothing and personality, and start helping us on levels, like mission-type from generations. Knuckles would help with treasure hunting, amy with her piko hammer, tails with his flying habilites, shadow with Chaos Blast/Control, etc.

[Red Hot Jack]

3 hours ago, Cakito said:

Back to wondering and guessing about the story vs. gameplay, for now I am imagining that when sonic gets back to the future with its counterpart (after Eggman sending modern sonic to the past), both of them only see destruction and chaos at the city and start running - and when you jump from level to level, a character who we already know appear in a post-apocaliptic clothing and personality, and start helping us on levels, like mission-type from generations. Knuckles would help with treasure hunting, amy with her piko hammer, tails with his flying habilites, shadow with Chaos Blast/Control, etc.

That would be amazing, to see them in apocaliptic style, I'm hoping the co-op missions are revamped and you can do more with the characters than using them as a weapon or move. Even Shadow the Hedgehog (game) managed to do more.

[Chris Knopps]

...What if Project 2017 is the sequel to Sonic Chronicles we never got...?

[FriendBot]

I'm all for crazy theories, heck there seems to be a following for that with the community itself but that's probably one of the dumbest ones I've heard.

Chronicles isn't canon and it wouldn't make much sense to make a main series title be a continuation of a one-off RPG made by a rookie team at Bioware that's not well-received nowadays. And good grief, I like to think SEGA would want anything to get ol' Penders hissy fits to start back up again.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Soni said:

I'm all for crazy theories, heck there seems to be a following for that with the community itself but that's probably one of the dumbest ones I've heard.

Chronicles isn't canon and it wouldn't make much sense to make a main series title be a continuation of a one-off RPG made by a rookie team at Bioware that's not well-received nowadays. And good grief, I like to think SEGA would want anything to get ol' Penders hissy fits to start back up again.

The main series no longer has any sort of canon really so it kind of no longer matters what they do nor' when they do it period anymore.

One big shame about losing the continuity but... Ah well.

Eh, rookie or not I actually think Chronicles was pretty good. I just hated the music... I was happy with the multiple characters really.

Penders... I dunno, I think he will reach the point he gives up eventually... A point has to come where he realizes he's done nothing but eliminate what legacy he had and resulted in all his work pretty much forever tossed under the rug to the point he never existed...

I guess I'm just one of the few that kind of always wanted a Chronicles sequel, same as I've always an S4 Ep 2 sequel. Not because things were good or bad, but because I loathe unfinished things and SEGA/ST have a big enough list of scrapped things as it is.

[Diogenes]

25 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

The main series no longer has any sort of canon really so it kind of no longer matters what they do nor' when they do it period anymore.

That makes it even less likely that they'd pick up a discarded plot line that wasn't even their doing to start with. Easier to just push it down the memory hole and let it be forgotten than try to clean up someone else's mess.

[Chris Knopps]

1 minute ago, Diogenes said:

That makes it even less likely that they'd pick up a discarded plot line that wasn't even their doing to start with. Easier to just push it down the memory hole and let it be forgotten than try to clean up someone else's mess.

Well... SoJ/Sonic Team need to clean up their own before anything, I'll give you that one.

(Probably gonna start referring to issues with the franchise as SoJ/ST related since SoA is getting their act together with FIre & Ice and Mania)

[Polkadi~☆]

I want a Chronicles sequel, but it's definitely not happening, especially not in the form of this game.

[Shadowlax]

28 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

The main series no longer has any sort of canon really so it kind of no longer matters what they do nor' when they do it period anymore.

Sega or at least sonic team has a sonic bible or what is and isn't so. Canon in some regard does matter. If they don't care for it, its removed. Or in cases like sonicX it isn't even considered outside of the 1 thing they decided to steal from that. Or in a game example, super forms for non male hedgehogs except for blaze's specific exception do not exist despite being in " canon " games, those parts of the games are no longer canon. 

Booms entire existence suggests there is a canon, because it exists in an " alternate world" if it didn't matter, it could just be... another weird sonic. But its not, the world has rules and specific differences. Despite sonic's... very odd world and canon, there IS a canon. Whether you find that unfortunate, or not I can't make that decision for you . Its not the clearest canon, it probably never will be. But it does exist, because they strike things from canon often . Like for example the comic book isn't " canon" . 

28 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

 

Eh, rookie or not I actually think Chronicles was pretty good. I just hated the music... I was happy with the multiple characters really.

Chronicles is butts and gets characters wrong. The ken penders thing made me go back and play it and re remembered how butts it was 

28 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Penders... I dunno, I think he will reach the point he gives up eventually... A point has to come where he realizes he's done nothing but eliminate what legacy he had and resulted in all his work pretty much forever tossed under the rug to the point he never existed...

Or he doesn't. 

That's also a timeline. 

28 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

I guess I'm just one of the few that kind of always wanted a Chronicles sequel, same as I've always an S4 Ep 2 sequel. Not because things were good or bad, but because I loathe unfinished things and SEGA/ST have a big enough list of scrapped things as it is.

Hey man, I don't know about chonicles. But I would play a sonic RPG again. 

[JosepHenry]

If the plot is going to be just " Sonic need to stop Eggman and Eggman from the past with help of Sonic from the past with time travel, Tails and Tails are AGAIN completely useless just making company for Sonic, The rest of the characters are captured, Sonic saves one by one but they are AGAIN completely goddamn useless and at the end Sonics dies but the power of friendship saves them, and at the end THAT'S A HOMING SHOT B*TCH"

I'll be disappointed. Just a bit. I'll punch the screen and spam "Sonic is dead" until I'm banned.

[Chris Knopps]

31 minutes ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

If the plot is going to be just " Sonic need to stop Eggman and Eggman from the past with help of Sonic from the past with time travel, Tails and Tails are AGAIN completely useless just making company for Sonic, The rest of the characters are captured, Sonic saves one by one but they are AGAIN completely goddamn useless and at the end Sonics dies but the power of friendship saves them, and at the end THAT'S A HOMING SHOT B*TCH"

I'll be disappointed. Just a bit. I'll punch the screen and spam "Sonic is dead" until I'm banned.

Well... If nothing else you won't be disappointed if you expect such a scenario.

I'm expecting something along the lines of Generations with just a SLIGHT improvement toward more of an Adventure 1/Unleashed hybrid kind of plot, but mainly focusing on a depth/tone along the lines of Lost World nonetheless.

[SonicDude]

Going by the teaser this game may have both the boost and Spin Dash for Modern Sonic. Should be interesting to see if it replaces the slide or if it has its own button. They could even make the drift button also perform a Spin Dash at a standstill and let you start snaking after a dash.

[JayRaR]

I'm more worried on who the writers are then the story. The story could be the most safe, boring, predictable and supremely cheesy story ever but if the character interactions, delivery, jokes, and one-liners are on point then I'll be satisfied.

 

I think.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I think it's safe to say we're getting something a little bit more than what we've been getting since Colors.

It's not a guarantee, but the darker tone implied from the teaser certain says we're in for something bigger than the last few games.

[Polkadi~☆]

Every recent Sonic game has said "we're bigger than the last one," what makes this one different? ...It's probably that they're more in-your-face about it now, but pretty much every recent Sonic game has been saying the same thing.