Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

8 hours ago, Diogenes said:

First, the Japanese manuals establish that Sonic and Eggman have already been fighting each other even before Sonic 1; they have history, even if we don't know what it is. Also there's the issue of Eggman booping his animal friends into robots to give him a bit more of a personal motivation.

Second, when you start a series, you're free to set its rules. With the first game, you establish what the series is about. You naturally have more leeway there than 26 years and god knows how many games in.

Third, it's different because it's not meant to be serious. That's what this conversation was originally about, not "can you tell a story of any sort", but specifically about including darker and more serious elements. Sonic didn't need some deep connection to Eggman or a major character arc because the story was only meant to be a basic good guy vs bad guy framing for the gameplay.

That barely even answers my question. It's still "Good guy fights bad guy," and if you're going to go with the smallest excuse of his friends being captured and a previous history as personal motivation, anyone can make a small and vague connection to Sonic with practically anything else. That's not much of a meaningful relation.

Second, establishing rules in the beginning doesn't mean they should be less subjected from the same questions your asking about new elements two decades latter. Even back then they still created new things that weren't previously established to each other even if they bridged them with what came before, but no one went about qiestioning what meaningful relation there was with these things. All Sonic 2 and Sonic 3&K had connecting each other was the Death Egg and the Chaos Emeralds whereas the Master Emerald, Knuckles, Angel Island were made up for the latter game that bridge these differences together; it's the same pattern with SA2 making new things from GUN, ARK, and Shadow that it connects to Eggman via his grandfather and so forth. This is no different from what has been done before and what we continue to do now.

And it not being serious doesn't mean you can't ask these same questions right back. I figured it was established a long time ago that being "darker" or "serious" does not mean "deep" given the nonsense that games like ShTH and Sonic 06 showed us, much in the way that Unleashed being not as dark has shown that even lighthearted moments actually can have depth to them. You don't need a deep connection to have something new regardless of tone, and if you're going to default to framing them as being the basic good guy vs bad guy, that can can be framed for just about everything else at its core.

[Shadowlax]

As far as the HD assets thing is, IIRC is from sega themselves. Video games are expensive, especially due to the type of game sonic is, where you run past most of that expensiveness at break neck speeds. A way to reuse those assets in such a way they could make some more cash off of them. 

As far as your desire to see shadow in a sonic game, that is your opinion, if you feel that way I can understand. But I don't think its a waste, I feel like having different games, could open up different opportunities creatively and do different things. For me personally while for example shadow is my favorite character and if he was playable and had a story in 2017 that would be rad, i don't know if they would do anything too interesting with his character at all besides " I exist" and yes I understand he hasn't been around in so long for many that enough. But not for me, I'm personally a little tired of awarding sega with praise for  just effort, they could do interetsing things if they were sesperate. Another example, everytime tails shows a modicum of personality an entire section of the fanbase looses their goddamned minds as if tails not being perfect and nothing is some great sin, so maybe if he had his own game, he wouldn't have to be perfect. You can do something interesting with him as a character, and with his gameplay wise, maybe its a mech game, maybe its an adventure game. There are chances that can be taken by expanding beyond going fast, but to do that I feel you need to separate these characters so they tick off those who just want to go fast

Its why I liked sonic boom, in concept. Execution ,not so much

[Dejimon11]

9 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Platinum Games would likely laugh and then block Sega from their twitter account if they were approached to make a Shadow the Hedgehog game.

And then we'll never get another Bayonetta game again. 

[Shadowlax]

Mayor D also forgets , platinum makes most of their money off of making games for publishers, and due to recent events, might need a whole lot more of it.

Video games aren't made from some magical stark prestige meter, its made of money. Platinum needs it, their games don't make money traditionally, strait up, they don't. And sonic is one of the most famous video game franchises in the world, and a spin off... would get them some money to work on their own projects. Along with some leverage on bayo.

Platinum isn't some regal business who only excepts the highest bidder, sometimes they make 20 dollar games about korra because they need money. Sometimes they make bad TMNT games because they need money, on that note. 

Also I like how you pretending like platinum is this flawless studio, they aren't. They have made bade games, I own all 3 of their bad games. If you count the evil within, even though that's just miyazaki and bethesda, that's 4. And I own, all of them, and they are bad. They got knocks on their record, and they need money. Dude please , like get on with this. Edit: 4 bad games, forgot starfox zero, so 4 bad games 5 if you count Evil Within.

Edit: A matter of fact, @Mayor D  maybe i'm being harsh. Tell me , whats your thinking on this. Maybe you know something I don't. I know sega holds the bayo licence, and platinum needs money to make games. 

Like If someone owns the licence for a book i'm illustrating for, and then they ask me to illustrate for something else, and they pay me, and I can use this to get them to let me do something with thing of mine they legally own...as long as the book isn't horribly offensive. Sounds like a pay check, sounds like leverage. Have they spoken about, not wanting to work with sega on sonic. Or has something sonic related not worked out before. I'm genuinely curious, Maybe you honestly know something I don't. 

[CleverSonicUsername]

I was going to joke like, maybe Dr.Robotnik drops the Death Egg/Ark into the planet in order to create a never ending winter, because that'd be pretty bleak.

Then I remembered this is literally what Sonic Adventure 2 is about.

Also to contribute: My perception of Sonic is colored by the games I grew up with. I imagine it's that way for most people. For me it's the classic games, and so I've always preferred it be a light hearted adventure story. Think Dragon Ball, there's stakes and villains, the world is in peril, but that world is also vibrant and full of character. I understand how people who grew up with SA2 and Shadow probably expect and want something different.

From a purely visual standpoint, I think putting Sonic characters into realistic settings just clashes all wrong, though. Those designs are just not complimentary to real world settings.

[Badnik Mechanic]

5 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

A big post about me.

Mayor D also knows that other than maybe 4 Sonic fans,  nobody wants a Shadow game.

And outside of Shadow fans, everybody laughs whenever they see any Sonic character holding a gun.

And your understanding of how a studio like Platinum works is quite wrong, It's rarely like that at all.

[Kintor]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

Mayor D also knows that other than maybe 4 Sonic fans,  nobody wants a Shadow game.

And outside of Shadow fans, everybody laughs whenever they see any Sonic character holding a gun.

And your understanding of how a studio like Platinum works is quite wrong, It's rarely like that at all.

As much as I loathe to admit it now I must confess - during that initial survey which Sega held all those years ago I was one of the many people who voted that Shadow should get his own game.

In hindsight I still believe I made the right choice with my vote. I think that Shadow can support his own game; his core gameplay mechanics closely match that of Sonic and he still remains one of the most well-known characters outside the classic era.

Even the guns weren't necessarily a bad idea. Bullets do after all move at supersonic speeds. The real problem with the guns was the fact that Shadow had to stop running and come to a complete standstill before you could fire his weapons, which contradicts the entire purpose of Sonic style high speed gameplay.

If nothing else, it certainly wouldn't hurt to give Shadow a bigger role in future Sonic games. It's high time that the Sonic franchise started to reintroduce more playable characters. Sonic Mania is a good start, by making Tails and Knuckles playable again. However, the 3D games should also follow suite. Sonic Team might as well start with Shadow, if they follow Sonic Adventure 2's example they wouldn't even need to modify Sonic's current gameplay mechanics all that much.

[Jango]

Really? The REAL problem with Shadow's game was that he had to stop in order to shoot?

That literaly made me facepalm.

When it comes to opinions, there's no right or wrong. But you're wrong, pal, sorry.

[Kintor]

23 minutes ago, Jango said:

Really? The REAL problem with Shadow's game was that he had to stop in order to shoot?

That literaly made me facepalm.

When it comes to opinions, there's no right or wrong. But you're wrong, pal, sorry.

Look, I'm just playing devil's advocate here. As a game Shadow the Hedgehog had a lot of problems, there's no denying that. I just think it's rather short-sighted for this fanbase to have a collective visceral reaction every time guns are mentioned. My point is that poor execution with the gameplay doesn't mean that Shadow is bad character or that it's impossible to make a good game with Shadow as the main character.

I say that giving Shadow a bigger role in future Sonic games won't do any harm. Besides, Shadow’s return to prominence might just lead to more playable characters in 3D Sonic games.

[-Ace-]

19 minutes ago, Kintor said:

I say that giving Shadow a bigger role in future Sonic games won't do any harm. Besides, Shadow’s return to prominence might just lead to more playable characters in 3D Sonic games.

I would love for Shadow to comeback in a 3D Sonic game, but first we have to find a way for Tails and Knuckles to come back in 3D, babysteps. 

[Shadowlax]

2 hours ago, Mayor D said:

Mayor D also knows that other than maybe 4 Sonic fans,  nobody wants a Shadow game.

So nothing but something you think you know, got it. Unless you have actual data, may I advise you to stop. 

2 hours ago, Mayor D said:

And outside of Shadow fans, everybody laughs whenever they see any Sonic character holding a gun.

Who said anything about Guns? Besides the organization, an oddly inconveniently named organization given how common that tool is in a modern context. Unlike say a shield. 

2 hours ago, Mayor D said:

And your understanding of how a studio like Platinum works is quite wrong, It's rarely like that at all.

Please tell me platinum games employee, who's first assumption of what your bosses what do is to laugh in the face of the rights holder of one of the franchises you are known for if not THE. Please assume that I don't know, assume that I have no knowledge at all. Regale, me. Because everything you have said as of currently is nothing related to actual subject and anecdotal at best, or toxic hyperbole ruining any chance of taking your points in future seriously, at worst. And some may argue, a failure to understand. 

But no, please tell me. Spin me a tale with your preordained lack of knowledge I seem to have. I know nothing apparently. 

Go on. 

[Badnik Mechanic]

3 hours ago, Shadowlax said:

So nothing but something you think you know, got it. Unless you have actual data, may I advise you to stop. 

If you want to be a smart ass about it, by all means show me the mass demand outside of the Sonic fanbase that actually wants another Shadow game. I'm sure you can find them by the one guy who wants a game based on Charmy the bee.

Because you can actually do that, you can show there is a demand for something, whereas asking to prove there isn't data for something is asking to prove a negative... which is not possibles.

Nobody outside of a small portion of fans wants another Shadow game. 

Where is the demand for it otherwise?

 

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Please tell me platinum games employee, who's first assumption of what your bosses what do is to laugh in the face of the rights holder of one of the franchises you are known for if not THE.

Based on his twitter account, I'd say this guy is the most likely candidate to do that.

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Spin me a tale with your preordained lack of knowledge I seem to have. I know nothing apparently. 

Since you asked.

A studio much like Sumo Digital, Platinum Games, Sanzaru or even Big Red Button will have multiple types of workload and working methodologies, not all of them, but most likely would have one or a combination of the following.

Hot Desking: This is where another studio or company will make an urgent request for some kind of work, depending on the studio this could range from anything as simple as web development, testing a server, or even some basic graphical work. Typically this would be for some tight deadlines which could be a few hours or under a 5 day working week. Most commonly a single staff member or small team or 2 or 3 people would likely 

In House Development: This is very risky for a small studio, many studios have gone bankrupt or bust before, during or after a game/project has been released by doing this. An in house project would be exactly what it sounds like, the studio puts most of it's resources and cash into making a project for release, pretty much indie developers adopt this development strategy or big major Triple A studios who can afford to take that risk.

Pitch: This can again be quite risky if lots of development resources went into the project, however most of the time it's a proof of concept type thing, a studio might spend some time or some employees might make a small passion project then pitch it to someone within the company, if it's proved successful then they might pitch it to a much larger studio in order to get some investment for development.

An example of this would be that Sonic Skateboarding prototype which was discovered a few years ago. 

Now this next one, is how most people and based on what you said earlier you seem to think Platinum Games would be like as well as the majority of development studios who do work for bigger companies.

Multiple Pitching: This doesn't often happen due to the huge cost from the client but it has been known to occur. A client may ask multiple developers to pitch for a project, the client will likely pay each party who agrees a pitch a fee for this initial development, however this is extremely expensive and is very rare to happen in this day and age.

Contractual: Another company will ask a development studio to work on a project...

But wait you say, isn't that what we said?

Well hang on there, it's not as black and white as that.

Say in this scenario Sega approaches another developer and asks them if they would be interested in making a game for them, the other studio may not instantly agree to the terms, they would likely discuss the project internally for a short time to decide a number of factors... including their reputation if they took on the project, 

Other factors would be if it were feasibly possible to do what the client wants, financially sound to do it as well as a few other things such as any other in house projects or potential conflicts of interests.

Now.... say the developer agrees to do the project, the client will and I know for absolute 100% fact that this is how Sega tends to operate with smaller studios. The client has to then create a pitch (see the earlier 'pitch' part of this post), this will likely be a proof of concept along with a possible design document for the rest of the project. 

If the client likes the pitch, they then commission the studio to continue work on the project.

However.... this still does NOT mean that the studio will finish the project, during the development there will be regular updates on the games progress to the client, even when the game is announced, this still occurs, both companies can still at this time cancel the contract (however if the developer wants to cancel it, there will be a lengthy legal battle/fine imposed as per the original contract).

 

It is not as simple as you have made it out to be, it is not as simple nor has it ever been as simple as 'well Sega can just ask *insert company here* to make a *insert game here*. It is far more complicated and has multiple levels of pitching to the client and if the development is having problems or not going to plan then the client can and will likely cancel the project.

[kboyrulez12345]

Well shadolax, if you want a reason why a Shadow the Hedgehog game can't/won't be made by Platinum, it's because Platinum don't even take requests in the first place. If I recall, Platinum makes games they want to make. I think I remember a lot of people requesting them to make a Kill la Kill game. Apparently Hideki got so many requests for it that he got tired of it and bluntly said no, and that he develops games he wants to make. 

Also I really don't think Platinum would be interested in making a Shadow the Hedgehog game anyway, looking at their gaming history.

[Badnik Mechanic]

6 minutes ago, kboyrulez12345 said:

Also I really don't think Platinum would be interested in making a Shadow the Hedgehog game anyway, looking at their gaming history.

I think one of the main reasons they've reject the request is because of how Sega dealt with them during their initial 3 game deal.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

*pictures Shadow in a Metal Gear Rising type game*

.....

HAHAHAHA!

People laughed at Shadow holding a gun, Sonic holding a sword, even Sonic in a car (and Transformed was actually a good game)... Shadow's game wasn't even great to begin with, why are we discussing a possible Shadow 2? I'd rather have Heroes 2 than that, and that's saying something!

[Marcello]

Platinum makes games they're hired to make and games they shop around. They're not going to turn down games if they have the capacity to make them.

I wouldn't take those kinds of comments from Kamiya's Twitter seriously.

That said, no one is going to be making another Shadow game. SEGA isn't that stupid.

[kboyrulez12345]

Anyway, to keep this topic more on track:

I still don't know what to make of Sonic 2017. I always take the wait and see approach when it comes to video games nowadays. I'll have more firm opinion when Sega releases the first game play trailer.

[Kellan]

4 hours ago, Kintor said:

Shadow had to stop running and come to a complete standstill before you could fire his weapons

I just want to point out that this is not true. You could fire his guns while running.

[Hiki]

4 hours ago, Kintor said:

As much as I loathe to admit it now I must confess - during that initial survey which Sega held all those years ago I was one of the many people who voted that Shadow should get his own game.

In hindsight I still believe I made the right choice with my vote. I think that Shadow can support his own game; his core gameplay mechanics closely match that of Sonic and he still remains one of the most well-known characters outside the classic era.

Even the guns weren't necessarily a bad idea. Bullets do after all move at supersonic speeds. The real problem with the guns was the fact that Shadow had to stop running and come to a complete standstill before you could fire his weapons, which contradicts the entire purpose of Sonic style high speed gameplay.

If nothing else, it certainly wouldn't hurt to give Shadow a bigger role in future Sonic games. It's high time that the Sonic franchise started to reintroduce more playable characters. Sonic Mania is a good start, by making Tails and Knuckles playable again. However, the 3D games should also follow suite. Sonic Team might as well start with Shadow, if they follow Sonic Adventure 2's example they wouldn't even need to modify Sonic's current gameplay mechanics all that much.

I actually enjoyed Shadow's game. Alot in fact. I'd consider it to be my top Sonic game.

I never really thought the guns were an awful idea or anything. SEGA probably knew what they were doing when they gave guns to Shadow instead of Sonic like the fans wanted.

I don't think I have the problem where I have to stop before I shoot. I generally just shoot as I'm speeding through the level, and I think that helps alot when I was trying to speedrun through the game. Take Westopolis for example. I got about just under three minutes trying to speedrun, and I used guns, too. Imagine if there were no guns and I had to use the homing attack all the time. My thoughts would be:

Lol. But that might just be that I played that game so much that I played all the levels instinctually. XD

Agreed. I've been tired of Solo Sonica, and you're right. It's time for 3D games to end the Solo Sonica just as the 2D game is. I think the only problem with the other characters is how drastically different they made the gameplay. I think S3&K would be a good example of keeping things consistent. Or if they wanted to, they could add different levels for each character while keeping the Sonic formula in there.

[Jango]

*pictures Shadow in a Metal Gear Rising type game*

.....

HAHAHAHA!

People laughed at Shadow holding a gun, Sonic holding a sword, even Sonic in a car (and Transformed was actually a good game)... Shadow's game wasn't even great to begin with, why are we discussing a possible Shadow 2? I'd rather have Heroes 2 than that, and that's saying something!

Heeeeeey! Heroes was good. IT WAS, OKAY? I'M NOT CRAZY.

[Shadowlax]

1 hour ago, Mayor D said:

If you want to be a smart ass about it, by all means show me the mass demand outside of the Sonic fanbase that actually wants another Shadow game. I'm sure you can find them by the one guy who wants a game based on Charmy the bee.

So first off. You started this exchange with a drive by sass filled post that left little to no explanation. But was at best condescending and at worst, just toxic. So before you start calling people a smart ass, look at yourself, and your own posting habits. But more on that in a moment. 

Next which is the issue at hand. What is your request even, If I posted " yo would you play a shadow character action game" on various sites depending on what site that may be, some people would say yes, some people would say no. What does that mean really?

I can post on neogaf " Do you want 2d new 2d metriod and I guarantee you most people in that thread would say " hell yes" but that isn't going to make metriod sell better. 

We talked about this before with the sonic twitter, a lot of the stuff on the internet isn't really representative of anything until we can prove, how me doing that would translate in to direct interest. 

I have no interest in wild goose chases, for the sake of satiating your own ego. You can do that on your own sir. 

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Nobody outside of a small portion of fans wants another Shadow game. 

We have no idea? But hey man Keep reinforcing your own opinion like its fact. 

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Where is the demand for it otherwise?

I've seen some, but to be honest. The flaw with the question resides in the notion that every fanbase is literally living on the internet constantly vocalizing themselves. To believe this is beyond foolish. 

Quote

 

A studio much like Sumo Digital, Platinum Games, Sanzaru or even Big Red Button will have multiple types of workload and working methodologies, not all of them, but most likely would have one or a combination of the following.

Hot Desking: This is where another studio or company will make an urgent request for some kind of work, depending on the studio this could range from anything as simple as web development, testing a server, or even some basic graphical work. Typically this would be for some tight deadlines which could be a few hours or under a 5 day working week. Most commonly a single staff member or small team or 2 or 3 people would likely 

In House Development: This is very risky for a small studio, many studios have gone bankrupt or bust before, during or after a game/project has been released by doing this. An in house project would be exactly what it sounds like, the studio puts most of it's resources and cash into making a project for release, pretty much indie developers adopt this development strategy or big major Triple A studios who can afford to take that risk.

Pitch: This can again be quite risky if lots of development resources went into the project, however most of the time it's a proof of concept type thing, a studio might spend some time or some employees might make a small passion project then pitch it to someone within the company, if it's proved successful then they might pitch it to a much larger studio in order to get some investment for development.

An example of this would be that Sonic Skateboarding prototype which was discovered a few years ago. 

Now this next one, is how most people and based on what you said earlier you seem to think Platinum Games would be like as well as the majority of development studios who do work for bigger companies.

Multiple Pitching: This doesn't often happen due to the huge cost from the client but it has been known to occur. A client may ask multiple developers to pitch for a project, the client will likely pay each party who agrees a pitch a fee for this initial development, however this is extremely expensive and is very rare to happen in this day and age.

Contractual: Another company will ask a development studio to work on a project...

But wait you say, isn't that what we said?

Well hang on there, it's not as black and white as that.

Say in this scenario Sega approaches another developer and asks them if they would be interested in making a game for them, the other studio may not instantly agree to the terms, they would likely discuss the project internally for a short time to decide a number of factors... including their reputation if they took on the project, 

Other factors would be if it were feasibly possible to do what the client wants, financially sound to do it as well as a few other things such as any other in house projects or potential conflicts of interests.

Now.... say the developer agrees to do the project, the client will and I know for absolute 100% fact that this is how Sega tends to operate with smaller studios. The client has to then create a pitch (see the earlier 'pitch' part of this post), this will likely be a proof of concept along with a possible design document for the rest of the project. 

If the client likes the pitch, they then commission the studio to continue work on the project.

However.... this still does NOT mean that the studio will finish the project, during the development there will be regular updates on the games progress to the client, even when the game is announced, this still occurs, both companies can still at this time cancel the contract (however if the developer wants to cancel it, there will be a lengthy legal battle/fine imposed as per the original contract).

 

It is not as simple as you have made it out to be, it is not as simple nor has it ever been as simple as 'well Sega can just ask *insert company here* to make a *insert game here*. It is far more complicated and has multiple levels of pitching to the client and if the development is having problems or not going to plan then the client can and will likely cancel the project.

Oh man that's interesting, you showed your work. I see the long division, you have remainders. How about next time, instead of doing drive by posts. Talk to me, like an adult. 

If you would have led with this I would have went " wow this guy actually knows what he's talking about, " I disagree with some of this, or rather hypothetical scenario, and we can have a conversation about that. But this conversation would have went a lot smoother if you would have actually lead and talked about why you don't believe this. 

 

55 minutes ago, Marcello said:

That said, no one is going to be making another Shadow game. SEGA isn't that stupid.

I don't think it would be stupid at all. I think it would do alright. 

There would be people who go " Oh ow the edge" but people go reference the myriad of insane shit sonic has done up untill the point... and sonic games still sell. I think it was a competent low budget character action game, I would do fine. 

57 minutes ago, Merry Merry Hatsune said:

*pictures Shadow in a Metal Gear Rising type game*

.....

HAHAHAHA!

People laughed at Shadow holding a gun, Sonic holding a sword, even Sonic in a car (and Transformed was actually a good game)... Shadow's game wasn't even great to begin with, why are we discussing a possible Shadow 2? I'd rather have Heroes 2 than that, and that's saying something!

You could make things better, you can improve things. 

Its almost as if sega abandoning ideas before they can be improved is problem that sega has in regards to sonic and is constantly complained about. 

There are a lot of franchises that would exist or be the Giants they are today, if they hadn't tried again. Fighting games, or how they exist now, and smash would not exist. If someone hadn't gone " we can try this street fighter thing again , I feel like this idea has merit" . Not everything has to be an absolute failure, wait a bit untill the dust clears and try again. 

There is this idea that failure is final, no you didn't stop learning because you failed a test. If you thing its something interesting to persue, try again. 

I think spin off games, like shadow, tails and knuckles games could be tried again. 

I think an adventure game could be tried again

And I think a 2d sonic game classic style could be tried again. And look, they tried again. Don't let that horrid GBA port be the last of classic sonic in a lot of folks memory. Just try it again.  See what didn't work, expand on it

[Badnik Mechanic]

7 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

Oh man that's interesting, you showed your work. I see the long division, you have remainders. How about next time, instead of doing drive by posts. Talk to me, like an adult. 

The irony here is outstanding.

Also, you're the one who quoted me and for some reasons started to drop my username a lot in your reply as if I had no clue what I was talking about... And now you're completely ignoring all criticism of your argument... So yeah you're not exactly doing yourself many favours here.

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 But hey man Keep reinforcing your own opinion like its fact. 

Yeah that's what I am doing? 

You can't prove a negative, it starts off as the basis of being fact unless proven otherwise. That's how proof works.

[Shadowlax]

36 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

The irony here is outstanding.

"Platinum Games would likely laugh and then block Sega from their twitter account if they were approached to make a Shadow the Hedgehog game."

You know I can go like... one page back right. You know your response didn't magically delete its self... it exists. You can't claim Irony when you initiated the thing, and I can find it and just copy paste you. But I digress. 

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Also, you're the one who quoted me and for some reasons started to drop my username a lot in your reply as if I had no clue what I was talking about... And now you're completely ignoring all criticism of your argument... So yeah you're not exactly doing yourself many favours here

I quoted you because I wanted an actual response, you eventually gave me one. But your original response, which I quoted above, doesn't say anything what it does is function as a drive by post. There is no " argument" its meant to destroy discussion. I don't want that, I wanted a response, which I had to fight to get. Which in a forum of discussion of opinions, I don't feel like I should have. Given the nature of your statement is to give explanation as to why you feel a certain way. 

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Yeah that's what I am doing? 

You can't prove a negative, it starts off as the basis of being fact unless proven otherwise. That's how proof works.

...

...

What? So In order, Did you just say that " If someone says something if someone can't disprove it , that means its true" you realize that's what you said right. Like I was going to respond this

" I could to various threads on different sites and suggest the idea and probably rally a bunch of responses in a positive manner, but I personal don't see that as definitive proof. As I said in the sonic thread about the twitter I we can say definitively how effective that would be untill we see... well proof of people buying said product. And the last shadow game that existed while it did sell 2 million the market is different. Just as i could find those people, You could post in threads and find negative ones its a litterall we would have to actually see that game come out and sell to see"  

I don't think the question your were asking could have a definitive proof phase, because unless I came in here 1k plus people you could say " Why would sega listen to so little people" and we wouldn't even know if those people reprisented more sales that what they were, or even less potential sales, people signing on but not commuting. At that point its a pitch, and why the hell would I pitch a game to you, I don't have a gaming studio and you aren't sega so that's a waste of both of our times. 

But lets move past all that , did you just imply that if someone can't prove a negative of a statement, its a fact? That's not how that works, that's not how proof works. I can't go " well scientists don't actually know what gravity is made out of, its actually be made out of poo" Yeah they can't say no,because a phenomenon it exists but they don't know how exactly it exists ( much like the sonic franchise to a lot of people)  ,  but that's not how that works. If you are called into court for possibly commiting a crime, and they can't prove you did the crime even if they can't prove you didn't do it, if there is no evidence to suggest that you doing the crime is fact... you provably aren't doing the time. 

Like aren't you a writer? LIke don't you write for the site, you show know just claiming statements and saying " since they can't be disprove they must be true" is intellectually dishonest. ( to be quite honest, going your whole line of questioning was intellectually dishonest) 

I know recent events suggest we live in a " post-truth" era, but that's how that works. You can't declare your statement as fact, you have to prove it. And you probably can't because you don't know how many people saying " I don't want a shadow game " would be reflective on an actual audience for that game whether that be smaller or larger. 

But to summarize

[Badnik Mechanic]

11 minutes ago, Shadowlax said:

But to summarize

You can post as many gifs as you like it doesn't change the fact that's not how proving a demand for something works.

If you say 'X exists' (X being 'demand') you are the one at liberty to prove that because it would be easy to give that proof as it would exist in a quantifiable manner. E.g. "Here is the data which supports it' 'here is the object which supports it' etc etc.

But for someone to say 'X does not exist' By it's nature it's true unless proven otherwise.

You've made several defensive posts now which effectively argue against this, yet not been able to point to a clear quantifiable source that supports it.

[Ayliffe]

3 hours ago, -Ace- said:

I would love for Shadow to comeback in a 3D Sonic game, but first we have to find a way for Tails and Knuckles to come back in 3D, babysteps. 

Gameplay-wise it'd probably be easier to integrate Shadow as a playable character again than Tails or Knuckles, 'cos unlike them you wouldn't really need to work around their abilities when creating levels - he plays pretty similar to Sonic in the games he's appeared in (save for his own game, but I doubt anyone wants the guns back). He's so similar that Sonic Team could pretty much just replace Sonic's character model with Shadow's, change his animations and voila - a fully-functioning second character. No need to figure out how to make flying and gliding work, 'cos... he's pretty much just edgy Sonic innit.

Story-wise... yeah, no idea lol.