Sonic Forces | PS4, Xbox One, Switch, PC "The Next Generations"

[Shadowlax]

18 minutes ago, Mayor D said:

But for someone to say 'X does not exist' By it's nature it's true unless proven otherwise.

The most popular character admitted  by sega themselves might have a contingency of fans who would like to see him star in his own video game.  That does't need " hard proof' I don't need to go into forums and find pictures of people saying this. Because one, who in the hell are you in the first place , but two he's the most popular character in the franchise and there is reason to believe a contentment of those people might be interested in seeing him being in his own video game again. And I already explained to how even if did that it wouldn't prove anything. That's not hard proof of anything, a potential user base, smaller or larger. 

But your statement isn't meant for discussion, its meant to be intellectually dishonest and dissuade argument.  And if that's what you want to do, were done here. Because you don't have an argument " no one wants this because I say so " isn't an argument, and you are suggesting that because you said that its fact. You have to prove that, you have to prove no one wants this. But you can't, because you aren't here for arguing, you are here to be condescending because you don't have anything interesting to say. 

So if you don't have anything of actual substance, how about we end this here. I seem to have made the mistake that you might have had something to say, that's my fault i'm sorry. I made that mistake. 

17 minutes ago, Ayliffe said:

Gameplay-wise it'd probably be easier to integrate Shadow as a playable character again than Tails or Knuckles, 'cos unlike them you wouldn't really need to work around their abilities when creating levels - he plays pretty similar to Sonic in the games he's appeared in (save for his own game, but I doubt anyone wants the guns back). He's so similar that Sonic Team could pretty much just replace Sonic's character model with Shadow's, change his animations and voila - a fully-functioning second character. No need to figure out how to make flying and gliding work, 'cos... he's pretty much just edgy Sonic innit.

Story-wise... yeah, no idea lol.

I feel like whats' the point, there are interesting game play scenario you could do given his powers, just to put him over sonic seems like a complete waste. 

I feel like there are plenty of story scenarios you could work in, yeah while I would indeed like more " complicated" narratives back, you know he could just be in the area, also fighting a bad guy. And that's as simple as it could be really. 

[Tani Coyote]

Two things.

The discussion seems to have shifted towards whether or not a Shadow 2 would be a fantastic or colossally awful idea. Since this is about Project 2017, I think it would be best if that discussion be taken to another thread, such as this one. This will be for the benefit of those who enter to discuss an upcoming installment, as opposed to whether a sequel should be made more than a decade later.

For the second part, there seems to be a considerable amount of hostility in the discussion over this possible sequel, and while it is likely to dissipate here if the conversation moves elsewhere, please, cut it out. Disagreements are getting a little too personal. As Sonic fans, we're all on the same team here despite our different ideas. Calling each other smartasses, passive aggressive remarks, saying people are wrong without adding more, etc. are not going to make things any better. Don't do it.

1 minute ago, Shadowlax said:

So if you don't have anything of actual substance, how about we end this here. I seem to have made the mistake that you might have had something to say, that's my fault i'm sorry. I made that mistake.

And especially don't do something like this. This is extremely passive aggressive and adds to the toxicity of the forum. If you think another member is being problematic in the way they're talking to you, report it. We have these orange badges for a reason.

One of those reasons is: we don't care who started it. Responding to something potentially problematic makes you just as at fault.

For everyone, not just Shadowlax, please try to keep discussion about posts, not the poster. Doing otherwise risks a strike. Again, we're all on the same team here.

[JosepHenry]

Anyway, to go back on topic, what kind of level tropes do you all want to see in this game?

I'm still waiting for a gloomy, rainy level, or a city at night, like Rooftop Run Night.

[DarkRula]

That gloomy, rainy level I've always envisioned as part of a shipyard. You could have some great dynamics with that, such as boats tossing and turning - even getting destroyed as the storm gets progressively worse.

Another one I had an idea of, though not sure how it play out with boost, is being down in a sewer. You could have great fun with multiple pathways in one of those levels, I would assume.

There's not a strong possibility for it in 2017, but a castle stage starting outside, heading inside and working your way to the top, finishing on the outside battlements Dragon Road Day style.

[Zippo]

To make this topic a little lighter, if anyone needs to destress or pass the time, I'd strongly recommend watching these great videos detailing Sonic in 3D. They're very well done, explain in detail the many missteps the franchise has had in 3D and what can be done to fix it or (for some.) work successfully for the first time. They are very analytical and I love videos like these that take the time to address core gameplay aspects.

Note: these were made pre 25th anniversary party.

 

[Shiny Gems]

1 hour ago, JosepMelloZSM said:

Anyway, to go back on topic, what kind of level tropes do you all want to see in this game?

I'm still waiting for a gloomy, rainy level, or a city at night, like Rooftop Run Night.

I'd like to see a neighborhood level, or an arcade themed level, or a shopping mall level, or even a sports themed level.

[Jango]

I wish we had something truly substancial to discuss, instead of keep arguing whether or not a black hedgehog with red stripes handling a gun is something feasible...

But then again, not long ago I was coming at you guys saying there is a "middle" Sonic between Classic and Modern due to its different philosophies, so yeah... I still stand to my point, tho.

In fact, I wish we knew at least a little bit of this game's plot at this point, like when that spanish magazine leaked Generations' story before SEGA's reveal... But this time they've really learned their lesson. Too bad for us.

[Joellui]

A level design that I would love to come back is something similar to Rail Canyon from Sonic Heroes (Sonic Heroes was a lot of things but they arguably had the best level designs in Sonic games.)

 I mean, it kinda makes sense, If we are resisting we can possibly go to his base at some point ("hypothetically") and go get infromation or even go and fight Eggman or Eggmen. 

And because I want more grinding gameplay. 

  
 

[Lucid Dream]

16 hours ago, Joellui said:

A level design that I would love to come back is something similar to Rail Canyon from Sonic Heroes (Sonic Heroes was a lot of things but they arguably had the best level designs in Sonic games.)

I dunno man, I'm very tolerant with pitfalls and I normally don't mind them, but Rail Canyon gives me a mini heart attack every time I jump. It's pit fall galore. Having a few rails is fine, but when you are literred with rails like in Rail Canyon, it just feels quite automatic. Sonic Heroes artistic design is wonderful and if that's what you mean then I agree (although definitely not the best). But, if you mean actual level design, then I'd have to disagree. 

[Joellui]

Just now, Lucid Dream said:

I dunno man, I'm very tolerant to pitfalls and I normally don't mind them, but Rail Canyon gives me a mini heart attack every time I jump. It's pit fall galore. Having a few rails is good, but when you are literred with rails like in Rail Canyon, it just feels quite automatic. Sonic Heroes artistic design is wonderful and if that's what you mean then I agree (although definitely not the best). But, if you mean actual level design, then I'd have to disagree. 

I getcha, they also gave me mini heart attacks every time I had to switch rails. I remember when I was like 9, that I would always switch to the fly types if I had to switch rails just in case aha. And yes I meant its artistic design rather than their actual level design. I just hope we get to have a whole level on battleships like back then.

The Teams artistic design has been very, I should say, not as great as it used to be. To be more specific, the levels recently they have been very much the same IMO base off of the same general themes of the level, I just want more variety.

Expect Sonic Colors, that game had great level designs, artistically. 

[DarkRula]

Fact of the matter is the mechanics in the boost games have kind of took that fear out of switching rails. It could work, so long as some traps were placed on the rails.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yeah, not a fan of Heroes highway-like levels given how lacking they were. Says a lot that even Unleashed had more space to move around in even though it followed almost the same philosophy.

If there's anything I'd like to see, it's more flexibility and pathways that are more than just left or right when in full 3D, but considering that Sonic needs mile long paths to take advantage of his style of play, I can see that adding a lot more than what the level designers would like to be able to manage.

[Sonicfan7]

We'll get something at E3. When Mania is out of the way. 

[Jango]

Yeah, not a fan of Heroes highway-like levels given how lacking they were. Says a lot that even Unleashed had more space to move around in even though it followed almost the same philosophy.

If there's anything I'd like to see, it's more flexibility and pathways that are more than just left or right when in full 3D, but considering that Sonic needs mile long paths to take advantage of his style of play, I can see that adding a lot more than what the level designers would like to be able to manage.

lol we didn't played the same game. Have you played Egg Fleet? There's plenty of open space to run around and different pathways in Heroes, not as much as Adventure 1, but still more than Adventure 2 if I say so. Unleashed indeed, is basically a straightforward highway.

If anything, I would like PJ2017 to be an improvement of Sonic Heroes, where you control both Classic and Modern at the same time. Now that would be a brand new experience.

[Diogenes]

26 minutes ago, Jango said:

lol we didn't played the same game. Have you played Egg Fleet? There's plenty of open space to run around and different pathways in Heroes,

Man look at all that wide open space

You totally wouldn't die instantly from the slightest off-center twitch of the control stick

Honestly though practically every 3D Sonic suffers from this to some degree. Lotta flat, narrow, linear tracks, with or without boundary walls. The series should've evolved past this by now, but the way things have been going, I don't expect that it will.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

lol we didn't played the same game. Have you played Egg Fleet? There's plenty of open space to run around and different pathways in Heroes, not as much as Adventure 1, but still more than Adventure 2 if I say so.

Yeah, a combo of the same rail grinding in the air and the same "break X to open the path" as the rest of the game with a gimmick of flying on a propeller and lot of open space down to a large pit of death. I think we were playing the same game, dude.

There was not that much space or many pathways than there was in any other level in that game. There was more room to run around in stages like City Escape, Mad Space, Crazy Gadget, and Eternal Engine just to name off the top of my head than stages like Egg Fleet, if not most of Heroes.

[Kellan]

54 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

You totally wouldn't die instantly from the slightest off-center twitch of the control stick

Well, no. Not unless you go a full 90 degrees when you twitch, then wait a second for the "flailing at the edge of the platform" animation to end, and then jump.

[Diogenes]

I'll give you the ledge animation but the characters in Heroes were so slippery that yeah, you twitch a bit and you're hitting that edge.

[Joellui]

I don't think Sonic Heroes controls was as bad as people say they were, I mean, yes it was slippery, but it was always (for me anyways) a minor problem that can be overlooked by the time you even reach Egg Fleet anyways. 

As for the spacing in levels, I think Shadow the Hedgehog has lots of space and pathways, but most of them were kinda empty with just random enemies all over the place.

[Jango]

lol we didn't played the same game. Have you played Egg Fleet? There's plenty of open space to run around and different pathways in Heroes,

Man look at all that wide open space

You totally wouldn't die instantly from the slightest off-center twitch of the control stick

Honestly though practically every 3D Sonic suffers from this to some degree. Lotta flat, narrow, linear tracks, with or without boundary walls. The series should've evolved past this by now, but the way things have been going, I don't expect that it will.

Of course someone would pick this exact part of the level to try make a point. I thought YOU should've evolved past this. Then again, the sarcastic and pessimistic tone already showed you have no point. Mind I just remind you this is the last level? What about a fan favorite, Sonic 2. Isn't the last level also a huge platform above a bottomless pit? One of, if not the biggest flaw of some Heroes levels was linked to the controls, especially the rail switching, which was fixed 110% in Unleashed and beyond.

"Oh, this is too narrow, there's no exploration! Oh this is too open, I don't know which way to go!". Seriously, I see this shit everywhere.

People loved levels like Seaside Hill in Sonic Generations was a bit wider and with different pathways to take. Just like Heroes. Really, the biggest issue with that game was the unrefined controls and camera, most of which already have been fixed by now.

[Wraith]

Seaside Hill was praised because of the traits it had different from Heroes. Heroes didn't have nearly as many branching pathways and the ability to run across the water opened the level up.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

15 minutes ago, Jango said:

Of course someone would pick this exact part of the level to try make a point.

But that was what most of Egg Fleet was. Large ships with linear paths along with rail grinding.

Quote

 What about a fan favorite, Sonic 2. Isn't the last level also a huge platform above a bottomless pit?

Not as much as Heroes was. Egg Fleet was more a series of platforms spread from each other that a single giant platform like Wing Fortress, mind you. So that's not a point in its favor.

[Diogenes]

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

Of course someone would pick this exact part of the level to try make a point.

The rest of the level isn't much better.

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

Mind I just remind you this is the last level?

You brought it up, not me. But the issue of narrow hallways holds regardless of what level you look at, the only difference is that earlier levels tend to have guard rails.

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

What about a fan favorite, Sonic 2. Isn't the last level also a huge platform above a bottomless pit?

Even in Wing Fortress you spend half or more of the level on top of the ship, where it's literally impossible to fall. And Sonic 2 actually recognized that that sort of pit-heavy design is only appropriate in the late game, if at all, unlike Heroes.

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

"Oh, this is too narrow, there's no exploration! Oh this is too open, I don't know which way to go!". Seriously, I see this shit everywhere.

Ok, and? Boring linear hallway levels and directionless open levels are both possible and both bad.

2 minutes ago, Jango said:

People loved levels like Seaside Hill in Sonic Generations was a bit wider and with different pathways to take.

But with the boost's insane speed you would still shoot off into the ocean with one wrong move in spite of the slightly wider paths, because most of the level is still hallways separated by death pits.

[Wraith]

It's also worth noting that nobody likes Wing Fortress.

[Kellan]

20 minutes ago, Jango said:

Mind I just remind you this is the last level?

Technically, Final Fortress is the last level.

Anyway, I never really found Sonic Heroes all that bottomless-pit-heavy. Or rather, I didn't see the problem with it. For most of the game, the platforms are wide enough that the pits act more like borders instead of obstacles. Plus, the air-dash was there to save you most of the time. So, I never really had much of a problem platforming.