Detective SSMB & The Case of the Sonic 25th Anniversary "P.g. 100 is the best... food discussion started."

[KHCast]

For reference, Kingdom Hearts 3 was able to generate hype with a simple picture once. Last year during D23 they simply showed artwork of the Big Hero 6 world. No trailer or anything, but that still generated tons of buzz. You can make simple teasers like that and get people excited.

[SSF1991]

44 minutes ago, Hyper Enesephus said:

Uh, I don't know what you mean by "demanding." What am I demanding of you?

Not of me. To me. Basically saying to me "I want a god damn Sonic game for my franchise's anniversary" not only comes off demanding, but very self-entitled (it's unfortunate because I honestly thought this debate was going to avoid that, it had been going good so far). This isn't your franchise, nor does its anniversary belong to you. It's SEGA's.

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It should be pretty obvious why people here are upset.

It has all basically boiled down to "i'm impatient". 95% of the cases people have made about this subject has been basically that. Being impatient for a game that, just a year ago, was being suggested to SEGA to take their time on. Being impatient for a game that SEGA hasn't even confirmed at this time. You may not outright say it, you may not be intentional in it, but every interpretation I've gotten on this is "I'm impatient".

A few feel it's less so about patience and more so about the opinion that it is not the greatest move on SEGA's part in a business sense. That can be argued a little more because it's less about just wanting something sooner and about a more important matter. But even then, fans wanted SEGA to play it safe following Boom's failure. That's exactly what SEGA did. Is it too much? No. There have been 2-year intervals of no Sonic games before and nothing bad happened. I'd be more worried if it was 2017 and we still have nothing.

And even if we don't get an anniversary title this year, there is another Boom game coming out in September. I realize not everyone wants that. In fact I don't want it either. But SEGA does have some kind of console Sonic game lined up for this year so it's not like we're getting jack squat like last year.

On the surface, the whole "what have you done for me lately" argument is understandable. But the more I think about it, the more it just doesn't add up.

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Regardless of Aaron's intentions, his attempts to entertain people have instead heightened the anticipation of a new game within an environment that is beset with anniversary marketing which has traditionally marked a new game for that year.

It's not like he's gone out and said "you should be excited, you should be hyped" for things. It has been the usual "we have something coming up, so why not join us" PR thing. Everything he has done has been on the grounds of "have fun, go wild". If people get hyped for something, that was something they decided to do and not Aaron. In fact Aaron has implied on multiple occasions (such as a Tumblr post) to not get hyped or drive your expectations up too high.

At that point, it's less about what Aaron's doing and things become more about how people are reacting and just how justified that reaction really is.

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Furthermore, people have been told, in ways both near-sighted and outright insulting, that their being impatient for a new game within such an environment is completely unwarranted, totally their fault, and being a bummer on the "fun," which is only going to make people defensive and subsequently shorter with subsequent attempts on Aaron's part to "entertain" people than they probably would have otherwise.

Note that I do have issue with people who do that on both sides (I saw a little bit of that on Twitter last night, in fact), so if they're like that, that's not helping anyone including them, and they're just as bad as the people they're arguing against.

Like I said, I can understand the impatience. It's just why that I tend to debate on (which you've explained). But I'm not going to insult people or get hostile because of it.

49 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

On top of that, it has been reiterated that Sega is trying to get their shit together, to not blow their load on something that is unfit for public consumption, to regain trust, but it has not been demonstrated why people who are skeptical of their ability to do that should ignore that skepticism in light of Sega basically doing basically the same thing they did the last few Sonic anniversaries. Again, they've kicked the party into gear without telling anyone the whereabouts of the guest of honor, and we apparently shouldn't in any way be curious about why that is. Furthermore, after all of this typing I still don't know why a press release is completely impossible to do even with the restructuring that happened a year ago. Heroes got announced in the midst of Sega declaring bankruptcy and almost flaming out of the damn business entirely.

Indeed, on top of all of this, we still don't know about the game. It could be the best thing ever, outright horrible, or anything in between, meaning all of this celebrating might not actually be worth it in the end anyway. It's difficult to be optimistic when A.) We celebrate, allude to, and use Sonic's history as a general marketing crutch way too often for me to be as excited anymore, and B.) The elephant in the room of whether or not this franchise even has that much of an interesting future left still lingers as a result of the complete ambiguity surrounding the next game.

To be fair, the mindset I explained was discussed in interviews with mainly SEGA folks from Japan. If night and day were a video gaming company, then SEGA America and SEGA of Japan, respectively, would fit that bill perfectly. I do think SEGA of Japan are a bit out of touch with Sonic (partly due to the brand's sheer obscurity in Japan and dumping all the stress on their American cousins), not to mention I do think they tend to ignore just what their western crowd is wanting, but I don't think it's fair to blame Aaron and his teasers for this. He's only doing what he can work with at this time. It's possible that the teasers are the only thing he's allowed to do in his NDA. (I've already addressed the part about the party analogy bit, and about SEGA showing something at all like a press release or teaser image, so I won't repeat myself there.)

There's certainly tension in the Sonic community, and I completely understand that. Like I said, I'm concerned about Sonic too. But let's not let that cloud our judgement.

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Honestly, this current anniversary isn't doing it for me. If you're having fun, then great. I'm not trying to stop anyone from enjoying themselves. However, it's getting pretty irritating to have to constantly explain the same thing people have been explaining for about a month now about why they're not so gung-ho about Aaron's hints or the gaping hole that is the lack of a game within the overall anniversary celebration.

Because we really haven't gotten a response about this that was mature and constructive, making it hard to really take it seriously. You'd be surprised to hear the things said about me just because of their impatience or uncertainty on SEGA's actions. That and the same people have become broken records, shouting the same thing every day, expecting things to suddenly change.

Let me just take a moment to thank you for not doing either, because quite frankly I'm glad I could finally have a proper debate about this. We may end up having to decide on agreeing to disagree, but that doesn't mean I'm storming out in a huff or anything. Just wanted to say that.

[Guest]

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Personally I prefer not having to wait an incredibly long time before I get to play a game I follow (still waiting for Persona 5) but whatever, if it can work then it can work.

[Enesephus]

Just now, SSF1991 said:

Not of me. To me. Basically saying to me "I want a god damn Sonic game for my franchise's anniversary" not only comes off demanding, but very self-entitled (it's unfortunate because I honestly thought this debate was going to avoid that, it had been going good so far). This isn't your franchise, nor does its anniversary belong to you. It's SEGA's.

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It may not be my franchise, but I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting a new game to celebrate an important time for a franchise I love with all my heart, especially since SEGA themselves are hyping up this anniversary. SEGA has released a new game for every anniversary since the tenth, and they're making sure people know this is an important year for Sonic and that we should be excited, so of course I want a game to get excited about. If SEGA didn't hype this thing up and hadn't set a pattern of releasing a game on anniversaries, my attitude would be different.

[Guest]

Really the problem is that Sega hasn't hyped up Big's Big Fishing Adventure 3 enough.

[Nepenthe]

@SSF1991 Sorry, but boiling it down to people being impatient and absolutely nothing else is disingenuous because most people are not going to be able to separate the historical connotations of what Sonic's anniversaries have actually meant for the past 15 years from how the current one is regardless of how Sega is doing internally, a lot of which we're not going to be knowledgeable about anyway since you mentioned this is from Japanese sources. Again, three five-year anniversaries with a major game released on each anniversary is enough to establish a basic association between an "anniversary" and a "game"- it's classic conditioning, the basis of advertising (and Sega knows it otherwise they wouldn't be doing this Sonic anniversary stuff for a fourth time). This is the foundation of the arguments being made and all of the feelings that have been expressed over the past month, and for Sega or anyone else to suddenly act like even something as simple as "We have something coming up and you should join us" isn't going to be be met with grievances when people find out it's irrelevant to a game that might not even be revealed until half a year is gone, if that, is ridiculous.

And what's even worse is that it was avoidable to a large degree. You say that we can expect an actual kick-off of anniversary celebrations in June. Anyone knowing this would have tempered their expectations for whatever Aaron was teasing in the meantime. Even if we assume that his NDAs prevent him from even saying that June or July are definite months for a game announcement, having more extensive clues and teases that tied to the actual convention being kept secret would've been better. Words, phrases, photos, jokes about conventions, anything. A date is such an ambiguous and almost useless clue because literally anything and everything can happen on any given day, so it makes sense to narrow down a date's significance to some plausible events. Again, in the context of this being an anniversary year, where a game is typically the highlight of the year because marketing patterns, what do you think people are going to conclude when a date is teased? "The game is being teased or announced on this day." And it wasn't just the date either. We had random music artist Madeon involved, and when has a random music artist like Madeon, or Jaret Reddick or Cash Cash or Akon or whomever, been any more relevant to this fandom than when they were the up-and-coming producer of a game's theme? I mean, come on. 

These aren't unreasonable trains of thought stemming from sheer impatience, even if they are communicated in an emotional or insulting manner. They're logical assumptions being made based upon the context of Sega's actions and the history of the typical Sonic anniversary and what that entails. And I guarantee you if this were any other year, the annoyance with Sega's marketing would not be so blatant, because we wouldn't be privy to all of this anniversary junk and thus constantly reminded about Sonic's future day in and day out. All in all, it basically feels like the fandom is getting entirely blamed for making reasonable assumptions without any real regard for the context of Sega's actions on why those assumptions are being made. Even the whole "I understand it's been awhile since we've gotten a game" bit feels patronizing, because that actually isn't the point. Again, you can't talk at length about what, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist, and it's why I insisted I would have rather had a more traditional year where nothing was being cryptically teased than an anniversary where the game that no one has any idea will even be good or not is still locked away for less-than-convincing reasons.

But I feel I'm just repeating myself at this point, so I'll bow out along with you if that's okay. I honestly don't want to seem like I'm ruining anyone's fun or stepping on people's toes.

Edited March 21, 2016 by Nepenthe

[SSF1991]

42 minutes ago, Hyper Enesephus said:

It may not be my franchise, but I don't think there's anything wrong with me wanting a new game to celebrate an important time for a franchise I love with all my heart, especially since SEGA themselves are hyping up this anniversary. SEGA has released a new game for every anniversary since the tenth, and they're making sure people know this is an important year for Sonic and that we should be excited, so of course I want a game to get excited about. If SEGA didn't hype this thing up and hadn't set a pattern of releasing a game on anniversaries, my attitude would be different.

SEGA hasn't hyped up anything. Everything we know was from them marketing things to toy companies and nothing more. Outside of that, they have been nearly silent on Sonic's anniversary. They never told people anything about this being an important year or to be excited. There's a difference being informing people and hyping it up.

And as I said, that pattern was set by a different SEGA,. This SEGA has completely reorganized themselves from the ground up. They don't even have the same game plan anymore.

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Sorry, but boiling it down to people being impatient and absolutely nothing else is disingenuous because most people are not going to be able to separate the historical connotations of what Sonic's anniversaries have actually meant for the past 15 years from how the current one is regardless of how Sega is doing internally, a lot of which we're not going to be knowledgeable about anyway since you mentioned this is from Japanese sources. Again, three five-year anniversaries with a major game released on each anniversary is enough to establish a basic association between an "anniversary" and a "game"- it's classic conditioning, the basis of advertising (and Sega knows it otherwise they wouldn't be doing this Sonic anniversary stuff for a fourth time). This is the foundation of the arguments being made and all of the feelings that have been expressed over the past month, and for Sega or anyone else to suddenly act like even something as simple as "We have something coming up and you should join us" isn't going to be be met with grievances when people find out it's irrelevant to a game that might not even be revealed until half a year is gone, if that, is ridiculous.

I don't see how it's disingenous when that has been what I've seen. In fact, in multiple cases, they were blunt about it. Never mind knowledge of SEGA or patterns or anything like that. A lot of comments I've seen, especially at TSSZ, were "can't wait to get nothing", "when should I care", "I'm tired of waiting", and more. It was sheer impatience. Note that I didn't label everyone as having this either. However, this was what I saw the most.

I don't expect people to be knowledgeable. But if you're going to make a case about something, I hope you're able to make a solid one with reasoning that is understandable, at the very least. However if you're lying, contradicting yourself, ignoring things, et cetera, then that can crop up in a debate and it may hurt the case you're making.

 

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You say that we can expect an actual kick-off of anniversary celebrations in June.

To be fair, SEGA had stated at the Joypolis event in December or so that the Adventure concert in April will kick-off the celebrations. But that's a one-off thing. A lot of their events seem to be happening later than that.

 

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Again, in the context of this being an anniversary year, where a game is typically the highlight of the year because marketing patterns, what do you think people are going to conclude when a date is teased?

But then this goes back to the question of who's really at fault here. Is it really SEGA,or people for reaching that conclusion? SEGA could put out a press release or a teaser picture, but who's to say how people would react? People still keep saying SEGA has hyped up the panel, and telling others this, when that was far from the case. Ultimately, it's a matter of if what they know about it, how they interpret things, and then how they procede to act upon it. And if that's the case, then how is that SEGA's fault? It just seems like this is yet another case of SEGA being blamed for something, when ultimately it ended up being more so how people reacted to it. I'm not necessarily saying "oh it's the fans fault", but I don't think blaming SEGA for something that was bound to happen, even if they did stop the teasers and revealed something game-related, is the right thing to do. It's just not fair.

7 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

All in all, it basically feels like the fandom is getting entirely blamed for making reasonable assumptions without any real regard for the context of Sega's actions on why those assumptions are being made.

It's one thing to reach a reasonable conclusion. It's another thing entirely to misinform, to make things up, to taking things out of context, and even getting angry despite already knowing what would happen. If none of that happened, fine. If you don't like the teasers, fine. If you even want to speculate, that's fine too. But to outright spin your case the way you want it to be for whatever reason and point to it as fact? Well, that doesn't help at all.

To give examples of that, let me use the panel here as a base for this.

Some people, not all of them, misinform others by saying SEGA hyped things up. In reality, SEGA only mentioned the panel twice and Aaron advised not to get all that hyped and raise your expectations too much. Polygon and Gamespot had a role in this, too, but I'll elaborate on that momentarily.

Some people, not all of them, made things up by saying/implying that the next Sonic game would be revealed there. In reality, Aaron said it wouldn't. And even if you didn't know about that, SEGA never confirmed that the game would be there. The silence should've been a red flag right there.

Some people, not all of them, took things out of context by passing off the panel as panel of reveals and news. In reality, the panel was explained since day one, when it was announced, as an anniversary retrospective panel that would look back on Sonic's history. People then saw the "look to the future" line and immediately stuck to this, blowing up the panel into something it wasn't and automatically assuming this would mean something significant. Polygon and Gamespot didn't help matters, either, by talking about this "SEGA press release" where they said that they would be making a "special reveal" and have an announcement. I'm a bit annoyed about it, mostly because there is no evidence SEGA actually made that press release. There is no record of it anywhere. When SEGA makes a press release, you will find the entire thing in full context in a heartbeat. However both sites not only took two little details from it, but you can't find this alleged press release at all. This makes me suspicious of what their motives were, and whether the press release really existed. So that didn't help at all.

Lastly, some people, not all of them, are getting angry despite already knowing what would happen. If you didn't know about Aaron's remarks, that's fine. But if you're genuinely upset and peeved that SEGA didn't reveal the game, when you already knew that they wouldn't, then that's all on you.

It's all that that brings me to this. They made reasonable assumptions based on the context of SEGA's prior actions. Okay then. Well here's the problem. So did I. And yet, I don't see eye-to-eye with them on that. So how is that the case? Simple. Because people interpret things differently. They react to them differently. Is that their fault? No, it's their opinion. But, and I hate beating this dead horse, passing that as fact is just not the best thing to do. It gives people the wrong idea and complicates things more than it needed to be..

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Even the whole "I understand it's been awhile since we've gotten a game" bit feels patronizing, because that actually isn't the point. Again, you can't talk at length about what, for all intents and purposes, doesn't exist

People have literally stated that they don't like how long it has been since we've gotten a game. There was even a debate earlier in the thread about this. That wasn't the entire point, but it was still something they said and something they wanted to address and I understand why they felt that way about it. How is understanding people's complaints patronizing? Because at this point, if trying to make sense of what people are saying and understanding where they're coming from makes me patronizing, then that's getting too sensitive and there's nothing I can do about that.

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I guarantee you if this were any other year, the annoyance with Sega's marketing would not be so blatant,

Now this I agree on, and the funny thing is I was about to say this too. I also guarentee you that if something had released in 2015, this wouldn't have happened.

[Nepenthe]

People are mostly tired of waiting for Sega to announce something in the context of this being the anniversary year where they've announced every other Sonic-esque thing under the sun besides a major Sonic Team title. That is the reason for why the vitriol towards them concerning teases and wait times between games is much higher than what it normally is. I'm not arguing that people don't ever complain at all, or that everyone has been perfectly logical, or anything else. I'm arguing that Sega has an obvious part in stoking the fires of this assumption and thus inadvertently putting a damper on things, and it's not at all difficult to understand said part even if you don't agree with the others' complaints or the manner with which they're complaining.

[GeneHF]

I'll likely get a scolding tomorrow, but I'll just say this.

We do hear all of you. That's why I've been saying patience. You can feel how you want, but know we DO hear you.

[shdowhunt60]

31 minutes ago, GeneHF said:

I'll likely get a scolding tomorrow, but I'll just say this.

We do hear all of you. That's why I've been saying patience. You can feel how you want, but know we DO hear you.

Man, that's why I'm not mad at you guys or SEGA. I'm upset at the situation.

I give Arron shit and all, but I can tell the guy cares and that he's trying the best he can. Knowing that he's stuck in between a rock and a hard place is all the more frustrating, especially when I can tell that he wants to reveal SOMETHING and make everything better. That's why he's skating the line here with his hints and guessing games. 

I'm not even mad at SEGA either. I just wish they would be more transparent, and actually let us know more about what's going on beyond vague promises of "we'll do better". I care about SEGA. My first console was a Dreamcast, and I loved it to death. There's a special spot for SEGA in my heart, and I want them to succeed. I just want more clarity from them.

I mean, I don't think that's wrong, right? I'm not being entitled about that, am I?

[Marcello]

I think it's fairly early. Usually we don't know anything about the next Sonic game at this point in time. So it's basically the same as usual. And say what you want about Aaron's teasing and whatnot, but it has people talking about Sonic in a positive way.

1 hour ago, GeneHF said:

I'll likely get a scolding tomorrow, but I'll just say this.

We do hear all of you. That's why I've been saying patience. You can feel how you want, but know we DO hear you.

 

[Tenko]

1 hour ago, GeneHF said:

I'll likely get a scolding tomorrow, but I'll just say this.

We do hear all of you. That's why I've been saying patience. You can feel how you want, but know we DO hear you.

I don't know, there's some pretty deaf ears when it comes to Nack the Weasel and the other missing characters

It was Aaron that petitioned for those wanted/missing posters in Generations tho wasn't it, so maybe he can be trusted to know what is right for me after all. Then again he did talk up Lost World...oh Gene I'm so confused!!

[Tani Coyote]

Consolation:

Sonic Boom 2012 was announced on February 2nd.

The actual game that year - Transformed - wasn't announced until a little bit after.

Go figure, Boom 2012 had lots of Transformed fanfare.

Take hope in this. They're just pushing the event out the door sooner to get as many people as possible, plus give attendees the chance to grab rooms before Comic Con attendees swallow them all.

Unless I missed something, my guess is that they will reveal something more about a game that has since been announced at the event. Sonic Boom 2016 very well may repeat  much of the 2012 event.

[Chris Knopps]

Question...

When was Sonic dropped from AAA status? What caused it?

Lost World and BOOM did bad but every other game has stuck to the norm in sales numbers right?

[DaddlerTheDalek]

37 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Question...

When was Sonic dropped from AAA status? What caused it?

Lost World and BOOM did bad but every other game has stuck to the norm in sales numbers right?

I guess it was Sonic '06.

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, Chris Knopps said:

Question...

When was Sonic dropped from AAA status? What caused it?

Lost World and BOOM did bad but every other game has stuck to the norm in sales numbers right?

General disinterest in the platforming genre more than anything. No platforming franchise is "AAA"

[FriendBot]

6 hours ago, Tenko said:

I don't know, there's some pretty deaf ears when it comes to Nack the Weasel and the other missing characters

It was Aaron that petitioned for those wanted/missing posters in Generations tho wasn't it, so maybe he can be trusted to know what is right for me after all. Then again he did talk up Lost World...oh Gene I'm so confused!!

Uh no, I'm pretty sure it was @AAUK that said to add those missing posters.

[GeneHF]

7 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Man, that's why I'm not mad at you guys or SEGA. I'm upset at the situation.

I give Arron shit and all, but I can tell the guy cares and that he's trying the best he can. Knowing that he's stuck in between a rock and a hard place is all the more frustrating, especially when I can tell that he wants to reveal SOMETHING and make everything better. That's why he's skating the line here with his hints and guessing games. 

I'm not even mad at SEGA either. I just wish they would be more transparent, and actually let us know more about what's going on beyond vague promises of "we'll do better". I care about SEGA. My first console was a Dreamcast, and I loved it to death. There's a special spot for SEGA in my heart, and I want them to succeed. I just want more clarity from them.

I mean, I don't think that's wrong, right? I'm not being entitled about that, am I?

No, not at all. To be a fan is to care and be constructively critical, much like you would a close friend or family member. The frustration is coming from a heartful place.

[Chris Knopps]

25 minutes ago, GeneHF said:

No, not at all. To be a fan is to care and be constructively critical, much like you would a close friend or family member. The frustration is coming from a heartful place.

My heartful place would be... -looks behind me- Yeah... That's about right.

 

[molul]

Even though they said there would be no game announcement last Saturday, now that they finally explained the numbers, I can't say I'm not disappointed. I can only suggest Sega not to do that kind of hype-building. There's so much people waiting for the next Sonic game announcement, and teasing us with cryptic messages that don't lead to unveiling any data about it, is a bit of a let down.

I'm not ranting here. Just saying that I didn't like this I hope next time Aaron teases us it's about a new game announcement.

[expansivelovestories]

6 hours ago, Marcello said:

I think it's fairly early. Usually we don't know anything about the next Sonic game at this point in time. So it's basically the same as usual. And say what you want about Aaron's teasing and whatnot, but it has people talking about Sonic in a positive way.

Yes, overall the media approach has actually functioned like the original understanding of memes before the popularity of the internet! Elements of it changed the creative behavior of other media communicators from different groups, which is something Sonic as a whole phenomenon did especially in the 1990s as well as 2000s. 

I found the panel to be humble and creative that resembled the original games!  Something about the series whichever creative directions it has gone, it has always felt down to earth, maybe not just because some of the main characters are animals that can burrow! 

 

[Regulus]

I get that people are frustrated, but honestly I'm happy it's taking so long for the announcement of a Sonic Team game.

Maybe this means that Sonic Team have finally figured out what they are doing and are developing a complete polished product.

Right, riiiight.

[Red Hot Jack]

4 minutes ago, Regulus said:

I get that people are frustrated, but honestly I'm happy it's taking so long for the announcement of a Sonic Team game.

Maybe this means that Sonic Team have finally figured out what they are doing and are developing a complete polished product.

Right, riiiight.

I think it's already been said in this thread, but announcing the game in March or in June has no impact on its quality. If anything, if they announce it later, they will have less time to fix anything that gets a very bad reception from fans. I doubt Sega cares enough anyway (but to be fair they did replace those 2 despised stages from the Sonic 4 beta).

[Toa Axis]

1 minute ago, Regulus said:

I get that people are frustrated, but honestly I'm happy it's taking so long for the announcement of a Sonic Team game.

Maybe this means that Sonic Team have finally figured out what they are doing and are developing a complete polished product.

Right, riiiight.

We can hope. I mean, we've been hoping that for years now, so it's hard, for me at least, to believe that Sonic Team will suddenly flip the status quo. I suppose it's somewhat reassuring that they're revealing the game later in the year. 

We'll see, I suppose.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Ok so.... regarding this 25th panel. 

I have to admit, I get where people are coming from who are quite... erm... not sure who to side with on this one so... disappointed is probably the best one to go with.

This was a panel which had Roger Craig Smith, Mike Pollock, Iizuka and Yuji Naka on it. 

And they didn't do anything. 

It was pretty much just Arron saying "In *insert year here* we released *insert game title here*" That's nice but.. why even bother to have Iizuka and Naka on the panel for just that? 

We had the two main voice actors and I don't think either of them spoke as their characters during the panel. Mike did Ella from Sonic X and another character but not Eggman? Come on...

Roger Craig Smith looked bored and at times was acting like he wanted it over with, also something I'd be interested in finding out, count the number of words said by RCS during the panel, is it more than The Terminator speaks in the entirety of the first movie?

 

Then we got 'Fire & ice' is coming on this date, nothing was shown to prove that work had/has been going on to improve it.

Party announcement, which is pretty cool.... but again... I have to ask, what was the point in having iizuka & Naka there if that was the announcement?

 

It just felt like a huge missed opportunity, you had so many key people on a panel and they were literally just set dressing for a power point.