The Legend of Zelda: Breath of the Wild (Wii-U, Switch) 2017

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Hell yes, that's an easy one. Changing a woman into a male is taboo, it's the other way around that's oddly enough an absolute must apparently otherwise someone is sexist if they don't do it and/or prefer it not to happen. Funny world.

Can you go two minutes without harping on this and dragging this topic down into the mud? Just try it. And, no, don't reply to me and say "It's my opinion!" Just comply and move on. Thank you.

[Mogtaki]

Just now, Lord-Dreamerz said:

I'd be fine with it. I always thought the idea of a female Link and Prince Zelda could be cute.

Yeah it would be cute, but I guess the biggest problem would be the female Link would just be called Zelda and the Prince would be called Link because, you know, that trope regarding people thinking Link's name is Zelda because of the game's name.

Oh man, I know there is an artist who did that, though. They made Zelda the hero and Link the Prince in a thing they called "Clockwork Empire", it's by Dresden Codak.

[Nepenthe]

7 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Hell yes, that's an easy one. Changing a woman into a male is taboo, it's the other way around that's oddly enough an absolute must apparently otherwise someone is sexist if they don't do it and/or prefer it not to happen. Funny world.

Changing a woman into male is taboo because a supermajority of positive media roles already belong strictly to men, meaning the loss of representation is minimal compared to if it were the other way around. That's the thing people making this argument conveniently gloss over-- there is an automatic double standard always in play, and it's the status quo. Anyone complaining about the thought of men losing one of a billion roles that caters to them (and in Link's case, not even permanently or forcefully) honestly has fucked priorities.

[MegasonicZX]

So just got back and watched the trailer and all I have to say is...wow. Its like nintendo literally listened to everything i've been wanting for this series for a long time now (multiple weapons, environmental traps, jumping, VOICE ACTINGOMGSOGOOD, etc.) and went above and beyond (customizable clothing, a PARRY FOR GODS SAKES YES, and more verticality) its like if dark souls and legend of zelda had a baby and i'm loving every single bit of it. I was having doubts about nintendo only having one game to show this E3 but after this I probably wouldn't mind if they did it again because this was singlehandedly the best thing to come out of this week and I feel like an idiot for ever doubting these geniuses. 

[Marcello]

I think only Link can really have a genderbent version. Zelda is a reborn Goddess Hylia and Ganondorf is always the same person and being a man is important to his backstory.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

Changing a woman into male is taboo because a supermajority of positive media roles already belong strictly to men, meaning the loss of representation is minimal compared to if it were the other way around. That's the thing people making this argument conveniently gloss over-- there is automatic double standard always in play, and it's the status quo. Anyone complaining about the thought of men losing one of a billion roles that caters to them (and in Link's case, not even permanently or forcefully) honestly has fucked priorities.

What of all the superheroes with a female version? The new Ghostbusters with all men replaced by women in the team?

Yeah... There's reason to start shouting "f@%k this" with so many men ALREADY forced into female clones. Another issue is it makes women seem worthless unless given a female version of an established/powerful male character. It's not being creative whatsoever in the slightest bit. A woman should be able to get her own fresh start all her own without needing to be a spin-off product of a man.

You want a female character playable? Do the thing with Linkle in a main game, not go making a female relying solely on Links existence as her own.

[Vaporware]

14 minutes ago, Jovahexeon Undyne Phoenix said:

I'm intrigued by the voice acting referring to Link exactly by name. IF this means that avatar picking names ain't gonna be featured,  I wonder if this game will focus more on Link and give him more character,  somewhat akin to Skyward Sword and Twilight Princess in a manner of speaking. 

I figure at this point most people would just name him Link anyway. The characters and lore are more apparent in recent games alongside the increased focus on timelines, so it'd make sense that they would start focusing on the character rather than just making him some blank slate.

[KHCast]

The ghostbusters are an entirely new group of busters...not  genderbent version of the existing ones.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, KHCast said:

The ghostbusters are an entirely new group of busters...not  genderbent version of the existing ones.

Oh please, we all know what they did and why they did it in that movie. I'm not getting any deeper into that pot of universally panned stew than need be.

[Tails spin]

5 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

.

You want a female character playable? Do the thing with Linkle in a main game, not go making a female relying solely on Links existence as her own.

wait, what do you mean by that?

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Tails spin said:

wait, what do you mean by that?

Make a completely new female character, not a female version of Link, with more of a difference in personality/story if it must be done. We have more than enough female versions of men in media nowadays, and like I said, it devalues women in my opinion because it makes it seem like they only get a head start/recognition if feeding off the popularity/success of a preexisting male counterpart.

[Tails spin]

Just now, Chris Knopps said:

Make a completely new female character, not a female version of Link, with more of a difference in personality/story if it must be done. We have more than enough female versions of men in media nowadays, and like I said, it devalues women in my opinion because it makes it seem like they only get a head start/recognition if feeding off the popularity/success of a preexisting male counterpart.

Then you just contradicted your previous statement with do things with Linkle. Since Linkle is in all ways a female version of Link.

[Mogtaki]

5 minutes ago, KHCast said:

The ghostbusters are an entirely new group of busters...not  genderbent version of the existing ones.

Uhh, I think I remember it being said that that's what they said they were doing. Heard it was a reboot so it'll follow the same plot points the first one did. The characterisations are apparently supposed to be 'similar but updated'. I think that's why a lot of people are protesting it too: because it's acting like the original never existed.

11 minutes ago, MegasonicZX said:

So just got back and watched the trailer and all I have to say is...wow. Its like nintendo literally listened to everything i've been wanting for this series for a long time now (multiple weapons, environmental traps, jumping, VOICE ACTINGOMGSOGOOD, etc.) and went above and beyond (customizable clothing, a PARRY FOR GODS SAKES YES, and more verticality) its like if dark souls and legend of zelda had a baby and i'm loving every single bit of it. I was having doubts about nintendo only having one game to show this E3 but after this I probably wouldn't mind if they did it again because this was singlehandedly the best thing to come out of this week and I feel like an idiot for ever doubting these geniuses. 

Dark Souls and Zelda? Dark Link confirmed?

Oh man, I hope Dark Link returns in this to be the annoying bastard he was before. I still can't wait to hear about the story elements and why there's such a focus on Sheikah elements (not to mention the way you start the game, I mean what?)

[Nepenthe]

10 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

What of all the superheroes with a female version? The new Ghostbusters with all men replaced by women in the team?

Yeah... There's reason to start shouting "f@%k this" with so many men ALREADY forced into female clones.

These two examples in a sea of male dominated roles clearly prove that there is a cultural War on Men. We'll tell you more about it later tonight on Fox News, but coming up in just a few moments: why that headache may be cancer.

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Another issue is it makes women seem worthless unless given a female version of an established/powerful male character. It's not being creative whatsoever in the slightest bit.

Plenty of male characters are made male with no real artistic or creative intent behind the decision, and yet you're here bitching about women. Gee, I wonder why white male characters are allowed to be white and male without anyone being allowed to question if there is justification for their whiteness or masculinity free of backlash from angry anti-SJW types. I wonder if this constant need to have women justify why they should have the kind of representation they want has anything to do with prejudice against minority groups being disguised as concern trolling for artistic integrity.

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A woman should be able to get her own fresh start all her own without needing to be a spin-off product of a man.

Women should be allowed the full gamut of representation in games. That's what equality is.

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You want a female character playable? Do the thing with Linkle in a main game, not go making a female relying solely on Links existence as her own.

Stop telling women what we want.

[Mogtaki]

3 minutes ago, Nepenthe said:

Stop telling women what we want.

I want Link to be my hubby.

...I mean, I'll share, I guess...

[KHCast]

3 minutes ago, Mogtaki said:

Uhh, I think I remember it being said that that's what they said they were doing. Heard it was a reboot so it'll follow the same plot points the first one did. The characterisations are apparently supposed to be 'similar but updated'. I think that's why a lot of people are protesting it too: because it's acting like the original never existed.

Dark Souls and Zelda? Dark Link confirmed?

Oh man, I hope Dark Link returns in this to be the annoying bastard he was before. I still can't wait to hear about the story elements and why there's such a focus on Sheikah elements (not to mention the way you start the game, I mean what?)

Really? Huh, I always just assumed they were similar but different characters. That just makes me cringe even more if it's the case, since they're done so badly here. Still though, even though I'd personally rather a ground up female character, if they decide to genderbend, and this goes either way, as long as the version is actually good and entertaining, I'd overall be fine with it, even if it takes a bit to grow accustom to it.

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

These two examples in a sea of male dominated roles clearly prove that there is a cultural War on Men. We'll tell you more about it later tonight on Fox News, but coming up in just a few moments: why that headache may be cancer.

Plenty of male characters are made male with no real artistic or creative intent behind the decision, and yet you're here bitching about women. Gee, I wonder why white male characters are allowed to be white and male without anyone being allowed to question if there is justification for their whiteness or masculinity free of backlash from angry anti-SJW types. I wonder if this constant need to have women justify why they should have the kind of representation they want has anything to do with prejudice against minority groups being disguised as concern trolling for artistic integrity.

Women should be allowed the full gamut of representation in games. That's what equality is.

Stop telling women what we want.

Tomb Raider, Bayonetta, Shantae, who knows how many playable/main women in who knows how many other franchises...

It's just constant bi@$ing because women aren't prominent in every single form of media in existence altogether, and that should never be the case, nor should that ever be the case for men. There's plenty of equality in the gaming world for those not ignorant enough to actually take time to recognize this, and the number of women having playable/prominent roles is continuously growing.

I;m not telling women what they want, I'm telling you how I see it as undermining women by having to be a female version of an existing male character so frequently. I'm supporting you, not commanding you or whatever.

[Sean]

Women don't care about what you, a man, think about what's best for women and female representation anywhere.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

The best protagonist in a game is one where race and gender are irrelevant and they remain endearing anyway.

 

And Link is basically never endearing so it goes both directions too

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Sean said:

Women don't care about what you, a man, think about what's best for women and female representation anywhere.

Then that's their arrogancy for declining the support of a man how he sees fit to support them personally. And that's YOUR sexism.

See there? THAT'S a reason to use that label my friend.

[Nepenthe]

8 minutes ago, Chris Knopps said:

Tomb Raider, Bayonetta, who knows how many playable/main women in who knows how many other franchises...

It's just constant bi@$ing because women aren't in every single form of media in existence altogether, and that should never be the case, nor should that ever be the case for men. There's plenty of equality in the gaming world for those not ignorant enough to actually take time to recognize this, and the number of women having playable/prominent roles is continuously growing.

I;m not telling women what they want, I'm telling you how I see it as undermining women by having to be a female version of an existing male character so frequently. I'm supporting you, not commanding you or whatever.

"You have Tomb Raider, Bayonetta and some other shit I don't even know about. That's equality, right? You should stop being ignorant and look at all of the equality around you that I am also demonstrably ignorant of. I'm a man and I'm telling you- a woman- how I feel about women's representation. I'm on your side, and to show my support I need you to stop bitching first."

Just stop posting about this Chris. And I mean that as a staffer. Nothing you've said here has done anything to sway anyone reading your posts that you don't actually have a serious problem with female representation in gaming. I mean Hell, you got your male Link and you're still in here being pissed off. And the arguments and implications you're posting are just getting worse and worse as time goes on. Any farther down this ugly rabbit whole and we're going to start delving into Gamergate territory and the topic is already fucked enough as it is.

Seriously. Stop.

[Soniman]

2 minutes ago, Shaddy the guy said:

And Link is basically never endearing so it goes both directions too

[Zaysho]

You know, @Chris Knopps, when I said "don't reply to me" I meant to drop this entire line of thought and move on, not continue to have it out with staffers because you just HAVE to have your say on this particular subject. I'm very close to striking you if you continue, so one last warning: FUCKING DROP IT.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I like the climbing. It looks like it will be fun to jump off things.

The glider looks dorky tho

[Chris Knopps]

3 hours ago, Nepenthe said:

"You have Tomb Raider, Bayonetta and some other shit I don't even know about. That's equality, right? You should stop being ignorant and look at all of the equality around you that I am also demonstrably ignorant of. I'm a man and I'm telling you how I feel about women's representation. I'm on your side, and to show my support I need you to stop bitching first."

Just stop posting about this Chris. And I mean that as a staffer. Nothing you've said here has done anything to sway anyone reading your posts that you don't actually have a serious problem with female representation in gaming. I mean Hell, you got your male Link and you're still in here being pissed off. Any farther down this ugly rabbit whole and we're going to start delving into Gamergate territory.

I don't have a problem with it whatsoever, I have a problem with women only being prominent in the case of being a different gendered representation of the same exact character. A woman shouldn't have to be a clone of a man, that is all I have pointed out repeatedly.

I'll not have anyone, staff or member label me inappropriately on the topic of one issue in one franchise when I've stated my adoration of female characters repeatedly. I love the Bayonetta franchise, have backed the upcoming Shantae title, etc. Being against the option of a female Link means nothing in this matter, it is merely one preference for one franchise, a preference I am open to if the female brought in is not some clone of the existing male.