Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Promethean0416]

1 hour ago, Danj86 said:

Wait! HOLD IT!!

I rarely partake in this topic since I just don't care about the guy. (Which is probably why Sega also never acknowledges him.) But I assume his fan characters are still echidna's right?

Because the thing hidden in that spoiler tag...can't actually be performed by an echidna. Now I could be generous and say that they do something similar but they lack something we humans often associate with that particular act.

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No dancing around the subject in this spoiler. Echidna are monotremes which means they are of a small number of mammals that give birth through laying eggs. Now, according to my research, they do perform an act that is similar to breast feeding but they don't actually have nipples.

I respect IP holders who will incorporate real life elements from the things they are based on. It adds an educational layer that is hidden under the surface. (I would never have known of a creature called an echidna if Knuckles did not exist.) As somebody that takes most things way too literally, I might actually get triggered if Penders incorporates a mammal trait into a monotreme. Not that that matters in the long run, any annoyance I was feeling had already disappeared before I finished writing this post. lol

I think they are supposed to be some kind of alien race now, but with the weird alien-esque uncanny valley version called "Echyd’nya" (I think?). Anyway, kind of funny that IIRC, he did depict the egg thing in the Knuckles series (though he also had said egg microwaved prior to baby hatching).

Edited January 5 by Promethean0416

[Danj86]

1 hour ago, Lorekitten said:

Okay, a few points here.

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One: Ken Penders has openly stated that this reboot will have the 'echidnas' as alien creatures who just happen to have an unpronounceable name that is linguistically similar to echidna. As if that's not entirely transparent, but I digress.

Two: if we go back to the Archie Sonic canon, it's indicated that the Mobians were the result of the Xorda's gene bombs breaking down genetics and new life springing forth, including many human-animal hybrids that became the Mobians. Thus, Knuckles and his kin are not 'just' echindas; they're part human, part echidna, possibly with bits and pieces of who knows what else mixed in.

Three: the Archie Sonic series has had different Mobian species actively interbreeding, including an echidna and a hedgehog (Mari-An and Rob) and later on in Ian Flynn's run, an echidna and a crocodile (Lara-Su and Argyle are heavily implied to be the future Edmund's parents). How is this possible? Biologically speaking, it makes no freaking sense, but this isn't uncommon in furry fantasy.

And four: female echidnas, and most likely some other non-mammalian female Mobians, have been drawn with breasts before.

So basically, hecc biology, this is furry town.

 

Oh....

That's a real shame. Sounds like he deliberately tried to remove any sort of realism in his fantasy world. Which might sound like an oxymoron but I believe that most fantasy worlds have layers of realism to them. Be it different cultures, religions or species that fill that world. When stepping into the world of aliens, rules start to get muddy, which might be why some were upset to learn that the Chaos Emeralds origins are like that. At least they still have a slight mystical aspect to them with how the Ancients managed to evolving into Chao despite seemingly being annihilated, then one eventually evolved further, achieving a form similar to their original but lacking the ability to speak, appearing much shorter and even being malleable in nature, allowing it to utilize the power of the Chaos Emeralds through it's own body.

Hang on, I'm getting sidetracked. Penders managed to distance himself from the origins of his characters basically being fan characters while also doubling down on that. I mean, why call them something similar to Echidna's if they aren't actually that anyway? I see an attempt to be funny but it come across more like laziness, especially as The Simpsons used the hard to pronounce name gag back in the very first appearance of the Halloween Special alien characters.

"To pronounce it correctly.....I'd have to pull out your tongue."

- Not Kang or Kodos

But you also highlight why I never really got interested in Archie Sonic, even when I finally learned it existed. I was never interested in the shipping stuff. It was even featured in SatAM and always made me role my eyes. It might've been because I was a little boy who thought girls were icky or scary since I also had an older sister that takes no nonsense. I didn't know that Flynn was also responsible for some of the creepy shipping, without really looking into it, I had assumed it all came from Penders.

But to be clear, I don't hate shippers. If people want to fantasize and have their own head canon, go nuts, I don't care. I was just all about the action and cool robots and speed. Things were simpler back then.

Interestingly, the Fleetway Sonic the Comic never tried to explain the origins of the anthropomorphic animals but did introduce humans through a portal which heavily implies multiverse or galaxy style explanations for the origins of Sonic and co. That was another aspect of the series I never really questioned until others did which made me aware of it. But before the 2-world theory ever surfaced, I easily accepted that Eggman also had a Grandfather and Cousin involved in a historical event back in Sonic Adventure or that the world was destroyed and a part of it survived somehow and would become Angel Island. Though I never questioned if Angel Island was part of a separate planet that made it to "Earth like" or was a chunk of the planet that got ripped off and the crater it left was replaced by an ocean once Chaos was sealed, (Though that would potentially contradict story elements of Sonic Unleashed.) or even an additional act by the Master Emerald after Tikal sealed herself and Chaos to prevent the rest of the world being destroyed, hence it floats.

B-But I'm getting sidetracked again. I'll stop the post now. How did I end up talking about more interesting story implications for the series through Ken Penders???

Edited January 5 by Danj86

[Lorekitten]

When it comes to 'realism' in fantasy fiction, there's a line between 'realistic' and 'believable.' A good work of fantasy can reasonably suspend a reader's disbelief even when whatever's actually happening would completely fall apart under even a moderately realistic perspective.

My general rule on writing fantasy is that as much as possible, everything must make sense within the story's universe. This may lead to the likes of magibabble in some instances, but at least for my stories, I have to accept that not everything is going to be one hundred percent real-world accurate, it just has to be believable in the context of the fantasy world itself. And sometimes, you can get your audience to buy absolute bullcrap if you write it well enough.

Ken Penders does not appear to have this talent.

[Promethean0416]

Well, he's released yet another sneak peek until the next Comic Con (whenever that is):

https://kenpenders.com/last-sneak-peek-until-comic-con/

For starters, looks like he reverted the Commander back to Ernie Hudson again. And from the looks of what I am reading, is this going to be one of those "flashback stories" where the Commander's side is told on present day while Lara-Su's is told from the past?

Also, here's a couple of "amusing" parts to his statement:

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For my money, nothing I’ve shown so far truly conveys my approach to THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES: SHATTERED TOMORROWS graphic novel I’m working on than the scene above.

First, it firmly establishes the story as science fiction that could easily take place on a planet located in the STAR TREK or STAR WARS universes. Or a number of sci-fi universes. PLANET OF THE APES, anyone?

Don't think any of those franchises had an "Uncanny Valley" world of any kind, but I could be wrong...

Quote

For the record, I’m bouncing around from page to page, working on panel 4 of Page 10, then skipping onto panel 3 of page 7 to the first couple of panels on page 15. That’s how well mapped-out the story is. It actually keeps me thinking what else I can add to the narrative as I work on it.

Can anyone make heads or tails on why he's doing this the way he is?

Quote

And now, it’s time I got back to the drawing board. I have some deadlines to meet. Thanks and take.

What deadlines?

[Rabid-Coot]

6 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

What deadlines?

Life is a deadline, you might have years to finish or something could happen tomorrow that impacts what you can do.

[Lorekitten]

7 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

Can anyone make heads or tails on why he's doing this the way he is?

Speaking as a creative myself, sometimes you get inspired to create a scene out-of-order from what you're currently working on. Why is this? Heck if I know, it just is.

[horridus]

9 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

Don't think any of those franchises had an "Uncanny Valley" world of any kind, but I could be wrong...

Boy, it has been a while since I've been utterly baffled by a statement of his. Like, no joke, I am utterly lost as to the point he's trying to make. I'm struggling and I mean struggling to understand the level of Significance he has attached to this panel, given that it's just an astronaut reading an alien recording against a photographed background... he's acting like that this is somehow a groundbreaking way to convey that this is a science fiction story when its just the most bare bones, basic-ass thing you could ever do.

[Lorekitten]

19 minutes ago, horridus said:

Boy, it has been a while since I've been utterly baffled by a statement of his. Like, no joke, I am utterly lost as to the point he's trying to make. I'm struggling and I mean struggling to understand the level of Significance he has attached to this panel, given that it's just an astronaut reading an alien recording against a photographed background... he's acting like that this is somehow a groundbreaking way to convey that this is a science fiction story when its just the most bare bones, basic-ass thing you could ever do.

I am SO looking forward to when and if this thing actually comes out and the internet collectively mocks it. Like, I know it's never gonna be completed because there's no way in hecc Sega isn't gonna sue the pants off this guy, but just the fact that this... exists means that it's gonna be mocked and meme'd to death.

Actually, I'm pretty sure the memes and mockery could be what alerts Sega to its existence and that it needs to be stopped.

[dwitefry666]

On 12/19/2023 at 6:43 PM, horridus said:

Setting aside how tasteless it was for him to do this and not credit Niemoller... this Poem, as presented, does not work within the wider context of the book. The Echidna never lived among other Mobians when the Coup happened. Robotnik's takeover did not proceed as described. This poem was stolen because it is famous as a cautionary about how Fascism operates, but it does not reflect the context of this setting, nor does it even fit the context of the story given that we don't actually witness anything resembling what's described here, with the Legion  trying to gain power by brainwashing (in extremely obvious fashion) Echidnapolis' current high councilor to gain support for their ROBOT.

... God it was such a stupid, stupid story.

The point of order? This and the other 'significant' quotes are there not because they fit, but because they are 'profound'. And thus that makes his work 'Profound'. It's an incredibly shallow way of looking at such things, but that's Penders in a nutshell for you.

I completely agree. And It's funny, cos when I was a 11ish (I had no idea of the poem's origin then) I remember being annoyed at this because it WASN'T what had been established, by the same writer no less. The Echidnas, even the Lost Tribe, had all been seperate from the other Mobians, if anything this was describing Sonic the Comic, not Archie/SatAM. And I had no idea what it had to do with Nazi echidnas. Theni found out he nicked it from a holocaust survvior he didn't credit and had WAY more problems with it, obviously. The point is is that a stupid ignorant child from Essex could see the problem a professional writer and his editorial could not.

Meaanwhile...

Quote

First, it firmly establishes the story as science fiction that could easily take place on a planet located in the STAR TREK or STAR WARS universes. Or a number of sci-fi universes. PLANET OF THE APES, anyone?

Does it? Because to me it doesn't look out of place in ANY comic book, including Archie's Sonic the Hedgehog, wait... didn't Ian Flynn do this in fact? With an Echidna society? Yes, yes he did. The first thing it reminded me of though was X-Men and this trope was as old as the hills when they did it in, what, 1991?

Quote

Second, it’s a pivotal First Contact moment for Commander Mykhal Taelor as he encounters a vid-log left behind by an inhabitant of the place he’s exploring. Obviously, something major has taken place, but is he stepping into the middle of it, or it’s aftermath? Is Lara-Su asking for help? Or is it too late?

Then maybe Commander My-Cow Tay-Lar Of The Ever Changing Head shouldn't look like he's watching the microwave and Lien-Da should look more worried than your average Gaia Online avatar.

Also

Spoiler

We've already done the breast feeding dance, Ken, Saga got all the controversy already, sorry. Also there's breast feeding, non-sexualized, casual breast feeding, in The Boys (and The Pro before it, actually), Ken you're being no more progressive than Garth fucking Ennis, find something better to boast about.

I swear I haven't been a comic collector since for over 15 years!

[Lorekitten]

Spoiler

I'm tempted to put in a line about Penders "milking it for all it's worth" but I'm not sure if that's within the boundaries of good taste.

Then I realized that if we wanted to keep things tasteful here, we wouldn't be discussing Ken Penders' work to begin with.

I am sincerely sorry.

 

[Promethean0416]

So, looks like he is pushing his original January 15th printer deadline about an extra week:

https://kenpenders.com/the-latest-update/

Not sure who the heck that is in his latest pic update, but yeah, proof that he loves changing more things in that story more times than Peter Griffin during that one time he directed "The King and I" (insert cutaway gag here).

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I took a little more time than anticipated primarily because I was reworking a couple of sequences I originally thought were more straightforward than they actually were. It was only while working on the sequences that it occurred to me if I made an change here and an adjustment there that I could tie my M25YL chapters, my story THE STORM along with SHATTERED TOMORROWS in a way that really nailed their continuity in the grand scheme of things.

I originally envisioned THE STORM as one in a series of stories that took place during THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES but were not a part of main story action. If anything, the series of stories I envisioned were meant to add to the broader world perspective from the main story.

Let's see how many more times he continues to push the deadline before something finally happens...

[Stasis]

So are the printers supposed to have all the finished pages by now? If so they aren’t getting them until January 2025.

[Promethean0416]

15 hours ago, Stasis said:

So are the printers supposed to have all the finished pages by now? If so they aren’t getting them until January 2025.

Originally for "25YL remastered", yes, but he's delayed because of his usual "reasons," but I digress...

Anyway, another head-scratching comment from the man on his recent update:

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I’ve taken the attitude that one only gets one chance to make a first impression, and this is mine where full control of my work is concerned. The level of support I’ve received where this project is concerned has been truly humbling, and I hope everyone who has supported me feels the results justify their faith.

Yeah, about that, pretty sure this is not a first impression of the man's work, more like second or third (I think?).

[King Scoopa Koopa]

I can't imagine anyone even remotely interested in this, positively or negatively, doesn't already have some impression of his work.

[babsiwuff]

WOW it's been a hot minute on my end.  But I got caught up on Ken's...thing...and ew?  I mean okay the breastfeeding thing, whatever.  Maybe these echidna alien things hatch from eggs and then nurse on their mother. But I'm not taking too much stock into that, he gave a teenage chameleon character breasts as well.  Anyway, I'm more concerned about how ugly their faces look.  Besides that, it's still very much a Sonic style.  That's gonna be jarring for folks.  

As for his preorder, I wonder how many people actually preordered his book.

[Promethean0416]

And we have a weekend update on TL-SC:

https://kenpenders.com/the-lara-su-chronicles-update/

Starting off, it looks like he changed the distorted Sonic pic from the original 25YL (then again, I have not read those old stories in a while, so feel free to correct if necessary). And yes, even with the distortion, Sonic is still seen on the panel, even aptly named by KnucklesK'nox Off. And what is up with Sonic's mouth?

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At this point, while THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES continues the stories of characters who have been around for a long time, people need to understand that neither Archie, IDW or SEGA were ever invested in any of the characters beyond the SEGA core list of characters. They are never going to show up in any Sonic film, game, comic or any other format people would like to see them in.

So rather than play with people’s feelings and give false hope, from this point forward THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES is its own stand-alone universe.

The only problems I see with this statement are the fact that if 25YLTL-SC: Beginnings counts as part of his so-called "franchise" he'd have to do some serious revising/deleting, but that would probably take too much effort on his part.

Quote

In the meantime, I also have to report once I have copies in hand THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES: BEGINNINGS will be shipping to (currently) 22 states in the continental US, 4 countries outside the US on 2 different continents. If your country is not listed on the checkout page, please drop a line to me so I can add it to the list. (Unfortunately, at this time, I am not able to ship to Russia, North Korea, Iran and a couple of other countries for reasons I need not go into here.)

I’m still working on the last pages so there’s still time to get those last orders in before I lock in the SPECIAL THANKS page for the book.

Seems he is still pushing to pass the point of no return regarding selling these old stories...

Other than that, his usual meandering around and comparing his work to Casablanca, of all things. Yeah...no. Classic movie versus rehashed/revised/incomplete story novel? The difference is like night and day.

Edited January 21 by Promethean0416

[The Tenth Doctor]

"People need to understand that neither Archie, IDW or SEGA were ever invested in any of the characters beyond the SEGA core list of characters. They are never going to show up in any Sonic film, game, comic or any other format people would like to see them in.."

Has anyone told him Tangle is namedropped in Frontiers? or that Tangle, Whisper and Surge are playable in Sonic Speed Battle? Heck, or that the Freedom Fighters were in Spinballl? I know its not as much as some deserve but he's looking at a very outdated fact sheet. The IDW characters even have their own merchandise. 

[Lorekitten]

Not to mention that Sally was all over Sonic merch back in the day, and we've got a ton of Prime-exclusive character merch in the modern day.

But what really gets me is that his entire lawsuit over Sonic Chronicles was because he'd believed that the game was ripping off 'his' characters in the official games. And then he got bent out of shape believing that Knuckles' father in the second Sonic movie was the same character as Locke, despite him not having even seen the movie at the time. Make up your mind, bro...

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Nobody tell him. Let's just see how far he goes with that...

[horridus]

13 hours ago, The Tenth Doctor said:

"People need to understand that neither Archie, IDW or SEGA were ever invested in any of the characters beyond the SEGA core list of characters. They are never going to show up in any Sonic film, game, comic or any other format people would like to see them in.."

Has anyone told him Tangle is namedropped in Frontiers? or that Tangle, Whisper and Surge are playable in Sonic Speed Battle? Heck, or that the Freedom Fighters were in Spinballl? I know its not as much as some deserve but he's looking at a very outdated fact sheet. The IDW characters even have their own merchandise. 

It wouldn't matter if you did. Penders has been pushing this narrative for a decade now to try and convince the world that he's the Creative Soul Who Gets It And CARES About All The Characters That Mean Old SEGA Just Won't See The Potential of. He's the Misunderstood and Mistreated artist going up against the Soulless Suits, after all... even as he leaves behind a veritable laundry list of statements and stories that make it all too clear that his approach to writing renders any and all characters who can't hold his interest entirely disposable- his repeated attempts to permanently kill off Sally, trying to remove Eggman as the main villain of the book in favor his Dark Legion, thinking of killing off Rotor and Antoine for due to not having any idea of what to do with them, ignoring Elias and Geoffrey in favor of the Echidna crap and basically ending Tobor and Kragok's story by abruptly killing them off, etc... to say nothing of his complete dismissiveness and and disrespect towards the efforts of virtually everyone else on the book.

It's the same tired song and dance of a man desperate to be seen as Sonic's own Jack Kirby.

[Lorekitten]

1 hour ago, horridus said:

thinking of killing off Rotor and Antoine for due to not having any idea of what to do with them

To be fair, I'm still kinda ticked off at Flynn for trying to murder Antoine himself, but Flynn hasn't done half the kinds of things you've described in this post.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

So, haven't been in this topic very much.

Anyone want to bring me up to speed on how far his progress on this book has been? Has he released the first book yet or not?

Because I can understand that it takes a while to make a book, but I swear I could make more progress myself in his shoes.

Edited January 21 by CrownSlayer’s Shadow

[Promethean0416]

12 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

So, haven't been in this topic very much.

Anyone want to bring me up to speed on how far his progress on this book has been? Has he released the first book yet or not?

Because I can understand that it takes a while to make a book, but I swear I could make more progress myself in his shoes.

Aside from a handful of preview pages, the first actual book is still unreleased as of this post. He's been at this for what, over 12 years now?

And to add on, he is intending to release a "prequel" of sorts "soon", which is the old 25YL stories compiled into one book, though there are quite a few issues with him doing so, most prominently the Sega characters that are in those stories, which, judging from his comments and his broken relationship with Sega, he should not have the permissions to do so. 

But as stated, we will see if/when Sega makes their move when he does...

[Lorekitten]

I'm just sitting here counting the days until Sega destroys this man's whole career. I know it's inevitable, and likely would've happened sooner if the planned Scourge bootleg miniseries had ever come to fruition and hadn't been cancelled within a week of its announcement.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

10 minutes ago, Promethean0416 said:

Aside from a handful of preview pages, the first actual book is still unreleased as of this post. He's been at this for what, over 12 years now?

And to add on, he is intending to release a "prequel" of sorts "soon", which is the old 25YL stories compiled into one book, though there are quite a few issues with him doing so, most prominently the Sega characters that are in those stories, which, judging from his comments and his broken relationship with Sega, he should not have the permissions to do so. 

But as stated, we will see if/when Sega makes their move when he does...

In 12 years, with his experience, he should at least have had one book out.

I know it's not easy, but Penders really doesn't have an excuse for taking this long if he actually intends to put it out for people to read.