Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Rabid-Coot]

I get the feeling that ther'll be polishing of the last few pages for as long as it takes to either fill that special thanks page or at least put it at a less embarassing number.

[Promethean0416]

Just found this out, but looks like he returned to Xitter to promote 25YLTLSC:B:

Could be a one-time thing, I honestly don't know, but the fact he needed Xitter for further promotion kind of squashes his stance on why he chose to leave it. I personally don't have an account anymore, so I don't know how much he has posted on there since his attempt at advertising.

[Lorekitten]

30 minutes ago, Promethean0416 said:

but the fact he needed Xitter for further promotion kind of squashes his stance on why he chose to leave it

I mean, he does have a track record of hypocrisy; why should he stop now?

[Rabid-Coot]

Yeah I was wondering why he timed his twitter quit so close to having something to release, only the most dedicated would be checking out his site.

Suppose I am a little surpried it took nearly 3 weeks after the original deadline for desperation to set in though.

[Lorekitten]

In hindsight, 'inconsistency' would've been a nicer word than hypocrisy in this case, although to be fair he does have a reputation for both.

[Promethean0416]

Two updates in one day. Whaddya know?

https://kenpenders.com/were-going-into-crunch-time/

Quote

This project is as real as it gets and it’s all because of those of you who enjoyed the stories and wanted more. If the interest, the passion, the support wasn’t there, I’d have called it a day and moved on to other things.

But people wanted this, and their purchases made possible a commitment to the printer, who’s already been paid a sizable chunk of the cost. The orders coming in now have covered the remaining cost of printing and we’re now working on getting ready to pay the shipping cost of the books from overseas to here in Los Angeles.

And he still hasn't hit the magic 200, but according to the man:

Quote

I still haven’t hit the 200 order mark, but that’s okay as this was never about how much money I could rake in. Rather, it was all about how viable undertaking this project would be. If I was going to do this, I wanted to do this in the formats of my choosing, both print and digital, and getting it out to as wide an audience as possible on a global scale, which is already happening. Mission accomplished as far as I’m concerned.

For the top quote, if it wasn't for his own actions, statements, and posts around the net, it would have been believed once upon a time, but alas...

Still finding it hard to believe that he has the permission(s) to do this, but we will have to wait and see when he acquires the product and if/when Sega will take action. Looking at some old news, Sega did send a C and D to Grayfox Books for the Mega Book Collection last year, so this project of Penders may not survive either unless he gets really lucky or somehow got the permissions and did his homework, but we shall see...

Edited February 5 by Promethean0416

[Lorekitten]

At this point, Ken Penders should retitle his blog to "Not The Onion."

[Stasis]

Wait, so the orders coming in now are just paying off the printer, he then needs to pay to get them sent to LA from overseas and THEN pay to have them sent out to people? Surely, he’s operating at a loss? 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Okay I know I don't go here anymore but it it utterly fucking hilarious just how much this man cannot ever seem to do anything he says he will, no matter how small or effortless. He's literally doing more to break this promise by going back to shittweeting

[Promethean0416]

An attempt at clarifying a big question regarding certain contributors on TLSC: Beginnings:

https://kenpenders.com/my-response-to-a-very-legitimate-question/

Quote

I’ve been asked how come Steven Butler’s and Jim Amash’s name are not on the front cover of THE LARA-SU CHRONICLES: BEGINNINGS, as they significantly contributed to the MOBIUS: 25 YEARS LATER chapters that make up a large part of the book. The most I can say is this was done at their request, which I am honoring. Their contributions are acknowledged prominently on the interior credits of the book.

There is a pic showing the TOC with their names on them,  but reading through this, seems only one more remains that I can think of: Did Sega and Archie(?) give their permission for this to be done as well regarding certain characters in those stories? Inquiring minds want to know...

[Stasis]

Basically, while they are credited for their work, they don't want there name on something that could result in legal consequences. He states he has the right to repackage his previous works which is true if he gained legal right to his stories, however it's just that; the stories. Copyrighted characters featured in such works is a no. SEGA are strict with the Sonic IP when it comes to licensing so there is no way they've signed off on this as OK. 

Also it would seem Shattered Tomorrows is 18 pages, sneak peak at The Storm? Two pages a year give or take. 

[babsiwuff]

So, everyone is imagining the tantrum Penders is throwing at Pachacamac's cameo in the Knuckles series.  But you know what gets me? Penders throws a fit if Sega gives Knuckles a dad, but then he turns around and blatantly uses Sonic and Knuckles in that Lara Su book he's currently selling. REALLY hoping someone gets that little nugget of info to Sega. I would love to see Ken get in trouble over this.

Edited February 9 by babsiwuff

[LongcrierCat]

2 hours ago, babsiwuff said:

So, everyone is imagining the tantrum Penders is throwing at Pachacamac's cameo in the Knuckles series.  But you know what gets me? Penders throws a fit if Sega gives Knuckles a dad, but then he turns around and blatantly uses Sonic and Knuckles in that Lara Su book he's currently selling. REALLY hoping someone gets that little nugget of info to Sega. I would love to see Ken get in trouble over this.

The more fascinating part is that Christopher Lloyd is playing Pachacamac when he previously played Commander Kruge in Star Trek 3: the Search for Spock.

Reason I say that that's interesting is that much of what Ken Penders wrote for the Knuckles storyline is a Klingon vs Borg conflict. There was an episode of TNG where Worf comes face to face with the Klingon god who is said to be creator of all and can do anything and shape reality which Worf fears as everyone on the ship is critical of this so called god. This god I feel was in part an inspiration to Enerjak and his reality shaping powers that also eventually became the basis of Infinite's power set in Sonic Forces. But even funnier yet is that before Enerjak, there was another reality warper in Naugus who's magick could change literally anything he wanted to and was most powerful in his home dimension, the Void.

But the even more interesting part is that Julie Su is one of these Echidna (Klingon) who was retrofitted with Technology from the Dark Brotherhood (Borg) and was originally an enemy turned friend turned lover to Knuckles and was a common member of Knuckles' crew alongside the Chaotix in a way that is extremely similar to Seven of Nine from Voyager.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seven_of_Nine

Even more interesting is that Julie Su's entire introduction shows up literally two years after Voyager first started on TV.

https://comicvine.gamespot.com/knuckles-the-echidna-4-lost-paradise-part-1/4000-125710/

Further evidence includes the much needed talk about his contributed works to the Star Trek Comics in the 90s as well.

So...

It's kind of fascinating to see if Ken Penders will say anything about Pachacamac being close in motivation to Locke depending on if they lean into Christopher Lloyd's previous role as Doc Brown or as Commander Kruge given that Paramount happens to own the Star Trek series.

You might just get to see Ken Penders get slapped across the face legally.

We really need another artist on Sonic who fights for Creators' Rights tho, because it's funny to me that Ken isn't the only person Sega has time and time again ripped off for new iterations of this series tho and that there's a legal mess building up behind closed doors if you know who to talk to in the industry with ties to this series tho.

Edited February 9 by LongcrierCat

[Promethean0416]

13 hours ago, babsiwuff said:

So, everyone is imagining the tantrum Penders is throwing at Pachacamac's cameo in the Knuckles series.  But you know what gets me? Penders throws a fit if Sega gives Knuckles a dad, but then he turns around and blatantly uses Sonic and Knuckles in that Lara Su book he's currently selling. REALLY hoping someone gets that little nugget of info to Sega. I would love to see Ken get in trouble over this.

Nothing so far on that from his latest update:

https://kenpenders.com/the-latest-update-2/

Wondering if I am reading that correctly, but unless its a typo, his first book (not Beginnings) seems to be almost done, although it took him what, 12 years to complete however many pages that his first book is supposed to be?

EDIT: Re-reading his update again, I am beginning to believe that it is a typo after all. Ah well...

And looking at this image that he posted (I think he already released this at some point, but maybe a cropped version?):

The "real life" background just doesn't fit with the character design, and that wave effect behind that rock there doesn't look natural for some reason...

Also, to LongcrierCat, interesting comparisons there considering that the man is a Star Trek fan, so wouldn't be surprising on how "inspired" he was when he worked on the Knuckles series with those elements.

Edited February 9 by Promethean0416
Fixing pic link.

[LongcrierCat]

12 minutes ago, Promethean0416 said:

Also, to LongcrierCat, interesting comparisons there considering that the man is a Star Trek fan, so wouldn't be surprising on how "inspired" he was when he worked on the Knuckles series with those elements.

I mean he has been known to try to credit other peoples' works as his own. I still believe he needs to apologize for the ways he screwed over Ben Hurst and his family for all the damages done and thoroughly putting a black mark on one of TV's best cartoon writers. I so wanted to see his SatAM Film and I'm bothered Sega has no want to make it despite how good it all would have been.

[Rabid-Coot]

2 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

The "real life" background just doesn't fit with the character design, and that wave effect behind that rock there doesn't look natural for some reason...

Its a bad cut out job, take ?resize=768,413&ssl=1 off the end of the link and you get a bigger look at the picture and its easy to see.

[Rabbitearsblog]

I can see why Ken Penders is posting on Twitter again to promote the Lara Su Chronicles because it appears he's not getting that much traffic to his website and therefore, many people wouldn't know that his book is being released through his website alone.  And because he's got quite a bit of followers on Twitter, it would make sense to promote your work on a site where you get a bit more traffic on.

[Promethean0416]

1 hour ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

I can see why Ken Penders is posting on Twitter again to promote the Lara Su Chronicles because it appears he's not getting that much traffic to his website and therefore, many people wouldn't know that his book is being released through his website alone.  And because he's got quite a bit of followers on Twitter, it would make sense to promote your work on a site where you get a bit more traffic on.

Yeah, though I am not sure if it was a one-time thing he did with his post(s) there of if he is back at it again full-time despite making a so-called "morality decision" to leave there almost five months ago as I no longer have an account there myself. Also of note, promoting it there would make it more of a chance that Sega would take notice and take any necessary actions because of a certain reason or two regarding his project unless he did his homework and/or got permission to do so.

Anyway, on another note, some were wondering how he would react to the recent Knuckles series trailer? Here's a recent comment from him on IG regarding the matter:

[Ryannumber1gamer]

2 minutes ago, Promethean0416 said:

Yeah, though I am not sure if it was a one-time thing he did with his post(s) there of if he is back at it again full-time despite making a so-called "morality decision" to leave there almost five months ago as I no longer have an account there myself. Also of note, promoting it there would make it more of a chance that Sega would take notice and take any necessary actions because of a certain reason or two regarding his project unless he did his homework and/or got permission to do so.

Anyway, on another note, some were wondering how he would react to the recent Knuckles series trailer? Here's a recent comment from him on IG regarding the matter:

Y'know, I could almost respect him for the answer here, if he wasn't already caught with his hand in the cookie jar throwing a irrational stink back when Sonic 2 was coming out, and threatening to sue left right and centre because the movies dared touch such bold concepts as 'Knuckles having a father' or 'The Echidnas have history'.

More over, it baffles me that people are actually silly enough to even ask these questions. Like, it wasn't just put in such a way of "Hey, what do you think of the Echidna tribe history being touched on in the Knuckles trailer?", it's literally trying to goad Penders into a 'plan of action', as if it doesn't make everyone involved look absolutely stupid when they're trying to act like SEGA giving their preestablished character a semblance of lore and history is somehow infringing on Penders' rights. 

[Rabid-Coot]

A whole week of crawling back to twitter just for 30 extra orders.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

7 hours ago, Promethean0416 said:

"morality decision"

[LongcrierCat]

8 hours ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Y'know, I could almost respect him for the answer here, if he wasn't already caught with his hand in the cookie jar throwing a irrational stink back when Sonic 2 was coming out, and threatening to sue left right and centre because the movies dared touch such bold concepts as 'Knuckles having a father' or 'The Echidnas have history'.

More over, it baffles me that people are actually silly enough to even ask these questions. Like, it wasn't just put in such a way of "Hey, what do you think of the Echidna tribe history being touched on in the Knuckles trailer?", it's literally trying to goad Penders into a 'plan of action', as if it doesn't make everyone involved look absolutely stupid when they're trying to act like SEGA giving their preestablished character a semblance of lore and history is somehow infringing on Penders' rights. 

To be fair to him, they could have made the Chaos Emeralds' backstory have way more to do with Pachacamac and Chaos's role in the war against the Guardians of Ga'hoole.

But instead they show us this Golden Aura'd Echidna Warrior with Ultimate Power that Knuckles said could shape reality to the User's whims which Wade refers to as being "like the Stay Puft Marshmallow Man". And not only that, but when Robotnik gets the Master Emerald instead of getting a Super Saiyan form with energy blasts he straight up gets Magneto powers that he uses to Stay Puft up the Death Egg Robo out of nowhere.

That's Enerjak kind of powers he has a right to raise a stink about.

That's Godlike power that reshapes reality itself.

It fits the description of Enerjak's powerset.

Ken, as much as you hate it, has a point about his complaints in Movie 2.

And this could have been avoided if they didn't make direct parallels to Enerjak by showing an Echidna with that power with a golden aura or Robotnik literally using that power in a way much like the Chaos Force was used in the Knuckles comic series.

I say this while hating what he did to Ben Hurst and haven't forgiven him for it.

But Sega has been throwing it loose with the so called canon Canon Purists care so dearly for and have been playing it risky enough to get their asses in legal trouble again.

But so has Ken as well.

So it will be fascinating to see how this plays out.

Edited February 10 by LongcrierCat

[Lorekitten]

The thing about the golden aura? Yeah, that's how Super Sonic operates. So Sega technically invented that before the Archie comics even existed. Yes, it overlaps with Enerjak, but it's been a part of the lore a good deal before then, so Penders doesn't have a monopoly on Super forms, even for echidnas.

[Rabbitearsblog]

4 hours ago, Lorekitten said:

The thing about the golden aura? Yeah, that's how Super Sonic operates. So Sega technically invented that before the Archie comics even existed. Yes, it overlaps with Enerjak, but it's been a part of the lore a good deal before then, so Penders doesn't have a monopoly on Super forms, even for echidnas.

Not to mention, I'm pretty sure Hyper Knuckles was created way before the Archie lore about Echidnas came in.

[LongcrierCat]

See, I know that's true about Hyper Knuckles, but in a court of law, the fact they chose to do this take on the Echidna Warrior instead of doing an adaptation of Sonic Adventure, probably because they're saving that for either Knuckles or Sonic 3- as I've had a long suspicion that they're going to adapt a part of Adventure 1 with a straightforward Adventure 2 adaptation- has left them in the corner holding a strange bag where Ken Penders's stories were alluded to in a case that leans in his favour.

A good friend of mine sent me her boxes of Sonic the Comic books from the UK and I've been meaning to do a deeper dive into them too. So I decided I should take a look into the Echidnas in Sonic the Comic. Interesting it is for me to find that long before Owls vs Echidna, it was Drakon vs Echidna. This however, is in Sega's ballcourt seeing as the Egmont Sonic Books have all reverted back to Sega's hands.

Interesting too that I find the Drakon, alien fish people, were also the first to be shown creating the Chaos Emeralds in any storyline in Sonic the Hedgehog long before the Koco showed up in Sonic Frontiers. Due to Sega owning the license tho, this means this is Sega just recycling the Sonic the Comic storyline legally.

However, this still brings into question the usage of Echidnas that aren't Pachacamac, Tikal, or Knuckles. Because while Dr. Zachary hasn't been alluded to, we sure have seen allusions to Knuckles having known his family as a kid long before they "died"- more than likely, the fight against Longclaw ended in a stalemate and she too also isn't as dead as fans think she is, possibly having her own escape route, biding her time, lying in wait... (Sonic Undergrooooouuuu-) - and that due to this, they are likely alive even with Pachacamac being inferred to be a reference to Suddam Hussein in The Big Lebowski.

There is 50/50 chance of the Echidnas not actually being dead and Knux not being the only one alive.

Makes you also wonder about who was fighting the Ancient Koco back in their time in Frontiers' story too given it wouldn't be out of the question to have Echidnas as Aliens given the Ancient Babylonians are also Aliens in the Sonic Riders' storyline.

If the other Echidnas are alive in the movie series, we will have to wait and see how they have decided to portray them but there is reason for Penders to believe Sega is pulling something shady here especially with Sonic Forces having had a Diet Archie storyline, Prime having a Diet SatAM storyline, and Frontiers having a storyline similar to the Echidna/Drakon War.

It's okay if you didn't see any of these parallels before, it took me some time and research to connect this jigsaw puzzle myself.

But as much as you hate to see it, Ken Penders could have a case here.

But like how art isn't created in a vacuum, Ken Penders also has his inspirations, coughStarTrekcoughcough, and to further iterate on that, while all artists are inspired, the Entertainment Industry is a hive of scum who are more than willing to plagiarize literally anyone they feel like if they like the cut of that artist's jib.

Case in point, Family Guy:

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/tv/news/family-guy-stole-a-video-of-double-dribble-from-youtube-then-claimed-the-original-video-breached-copyright-a7042026.html

https://vxtwitter.com/egoraptor/status/1444793572197167108

Look, all I'm sayin' is that the Entertainment Industry is easily summed up in one image:

 

And even funnier yet is that the Echidnas didn't even die in Fleetway Sonic the Comic. They just simply left Mobius to go into hiding somewhere.

So... if they really want to avoid Ken Penders's wrath, they're going to have to prove that if they have other Echidnas besides Knuckles that this is in line with Sonic the Comic's take on the Echidna.

But this will also prove that Sonic was born on Mobius and raised in Knothole Forest with Longclaw.

You best get to liking SatAM stories in your Sonic media again.

It's back in vogue.

Edited February 12 by LongcrierCat