Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Zonic 2099]

Spoiler

 

The above post kinda spoils issue 50 of IDW Sonic so I'mma spoiler tag the tweet. That said... it's not really Sonic's style to kill his foes. Hell, even in your issue 50 Sonic wasn't even responsible for Julian Robotnik's death that was Snively who secretly messed with his ultimate annihilator.

And now that I think about it, given how the 25 Years Later versions of Lien-Da & Dimitri are for some reason allowed to live peaceful domestic lives when you were writing that story, I don't think you have much room to talk.

[Razule]

Sonic isn't even ultimately responsible for Eggman's death in the "definite, canon future" he wrote. He had Knuckles do that, and Sonic stopped him after.

[Rabbitearsblog]

And somehow, Ken still makes this all about himself...

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Well, I knew it was only a matter of time...

I feel it's worth noting that both #50s were written at very different points in time, under very different circumstances.

Penders' was when the Sonic franchise as a whole was very young, and they thought it was going to be the grand finale.

Flynn's is when Sonic turned 31 and, for all intents and purposes, has had a constant presence in the comics space for most of that time following a revival at a new company, with no signs of stopping.

[Adamis]

Didn't Penders kill Robotnik in Endgame behind Sega's back, only for them to discover it 2 years later and ordering him to bring him back ?

[Zonic 2099]

I guess responding with "And that's why his revival in issue 108 doesn't count." just wasn't arrogant enough of a response.

[Mobotropolis]

Remember Penders saying he didn't read the other writer's work a long time ago -- which explains a lot, actually. 

Main story of Sonic 108 was written by Karl Bollers. 

Quote

Didn't Penders kill Robotnik in Endgame behind Sega's back, only for them to discover it 2 years later and ordering him to bring him back ?

Thought that killing off Robotnik was the long road to explaining the new and improved Dr. Eggman back when they explained redesigns through plot; Sally fell into the chemical bath. Robotnik/Eggman are different. Sonic ... evolved like a Pokemon after running really fast?

No matter the reason our point still stands; SEGA (especially modern SEGA) wouldn't allow a Sonic comic without an Eggman to become more than a temporary thing. And they wouldn't allow Sonic to be the one who kills Robotnik/Eggman for semi-obvious reason. 

To Hell with what Penders wanted to do. This is SEGA's franchise. 

[horridus]

50 minutes ago, Mobotropolis said:

Thought that killing off Robotnik was the long road to explaining the new and improved Dr. Eggman back when they explained redesigns through plot; Sally fell into the chemical bath. Robotnik/Eggman are different. Sonic ... evolved like a Pokemon after running really fast?

Nah. Issue 50 or Sonic happened long, long before Adventure was even a daydream, and at the time the people at Archie figured the book would be cancelled not long after given that SatAM had been cancelled. Issue 50 of the Archie series really was intended to be the grand finale of the series at the time it was written, only for sales to remain consistent after SatAM's own official end. I think what happened was that the timing of things was such that whatever original idea there was to bring Robotnik back (in one form or the next), it was necessary to tie that into the utilization of Eggman's design in the comic. I personally figured that the reveal of Robotnik actually being ROBO-Robotnik was something done purely to appease Penders, though obviously I have nothing to base this on beyond what I've seen of Penders behavior and his status within the Archie Sonic writing team at that point. 

8 hours ago, Adamis said:

Didn't Penders kill Robotnik in Endgame behind Sega's back, only for them to discover it 2 years later and ordering him to bring him back ?

I don't know anything about that, but it wouldn't surprise me. One thing I DO remember though is that when Penders had Robotnik vaporized in issue 21 he evidently intended for it to stick, only for SEGA to find out, get pissed and order him to undo it. The evidence for this sadly has been lost to time, so I'm afraid I only have my word and memories to go by, but I swear this is so. It's pretty consistent with his disdain for having Robotnik/Eggman as the main villain of the book, much like his blatant resentment for having to write for Sally Acorn... or for that matter Sonic himself. 

50 minutes ago, Mobotropolis said:

To Hell with what Penders wanted to do. This is SEGA's franchise. 

Penders has never said it outright, but its really, really clear that in his heart of hearts he views the Archie Sonic continuity as being 'his', while outright making it clear he thinks he's the one who made Sonic valued. Try to recall that in his warped mindset, Sonic is a COMIC franchise that HE led to glory, while the games are only a relatively small part of it. He has never, ever viewed Sonic through the lens of being a game franchise with an unusual number of successful spinoffs, and this defines his every action when it comes to Sonic, including his deluded belief that he's the 'Jack Kirby' of Sonic.

[babsiwuff]

I have a personal stake in this that I won’t go into, but as a result, it’s very comforting to see that Ken Penders is so universally disliked.  But regardless, his obsession with the Sonic comic is weirdly fascinating to watch.

 I’m almost hoping he actually follows through with his weird Knuckles comic thing with the horribly drawn echidnas.  He won’t and we all know that, but I’m curious to see what the end result would be, especially since he decided the comic is going to have a mature rating, and how he’s going on about their “anatomy” on his Twitter.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

On 7/5/2022 at 11:05 AM, horridus said:

Penders has never said it outright, but its really, really clear that in his heart of hearts he views the Archie Sonic continuity as being 'his', while outright making it clear he thinks he's the one who made Sonic valued. Try to recall that in his warped mindset, Sonic is a COMIC franchise that HE led to glory, while the games are only a relatively small part of it. He has never, ever viewed Sonic through the lens of being a game franchise with an unusual number of successful spinoffs, and this defines his every action when it comes to Sonic, including his deluded belief that he's the 'Jack Kirby' of Sonic.

It's funny how Penders will try again and again to claim this piece of the franchise as his own....given how disingenuous he is with how "original" his stuff is.

Ugh.

[horridus]

23 hours ago, Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon said:

It's funny how Penders will try again and again to claim this piece of the franchise as his own....given how disingenuous he is with how "original" his stuff is.

Ugh.

That's Penders for you. 'Rules for Thee but not for Me' is pretty much his life motto at this point. 

Also, man there is something oddly... comforting about the fact that Penders is never, ever going to escape the Poem crap. It's going to overshadow his work almost as much as the lawsuit itself for the rest of eternity, ensuring that he will never stop being a subject of scorn. 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

4 hours ago, horridus said:

That's Penders for you. 'Rules for Thee but not for Me' is pretty much his life motto at this point. 

Also, man there is something oddly... comforting about the fact that Penders is never, ever going to escape the Poem crap. It's going to overshadow his work almost as much as the lawsuit itself for the rest of eternity, ensuring that he will never stop being a subject of scorn. 

I'm honestly beginning to think that he's intentionally dragging out the release schedule of the Lata-Su Chronicles in a desperate ploy to increase his relevancy before the series inevitably ranks and becomes forgotten, akin to what happened with Mighty No. 9.

[jungle_penguins]

Serious question, so there's the idea that Chronicles stuff won't be referenced/continued on ever again due to the lawsuit, but I always thought it was more Chronicles having little/no involvement by Sonic Team members, and thus was always going to be a forgettable one off to them. Has legal history caused it, or is the other deduction more likely to be true?

[Shaddy Zaphod]

There's no clear or explicit answer as to why they haven't brought up Chronicles stuff, but I wouldn't put it on it not being developed by Sonic Team. Not just because of the Dimps games getting plenty of recognition, but because Nocturnus Gate appeared as a stage in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter games. If I had to put money on any reason, it's that SEGA doesn't care about it very much, or it doesn't fit with their current vision for the series. It's not like there was any legal hangups surrounding Tails Skypatrol or Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, and this is the same SEGA who arbitrarily limits the use of Marine the raccoon.

That, and even though SEGA absolutely definitively owns the Chronicles content (Penders's suit never actually made it anywhere despite what lies he will tell you), I'd have to imagine they simply don't feel like dealing with him, given that this is the trigger-happy copyright troll who claimed he was going to sue Paramount for "Knuckles's dad using master emerald energy". Even though he'd still have no case, it's just a drain on resources and PR that the company would rather not bother with for such niche concepts and characters.

[StreetSonic2022]

... I really don't want to post on here as I've been lurking on this section for god knows how long while I wanted a good and satisfying train wreck on this silly prject to happen. Also, I don't want to rant about Penders. Trust me, I have too much to say about him, in very BAD words. 

But I want to add something here:

2 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

There's no clear or explicit answer as to why they haven't brought up Chronicles stuff, but I wouldn't put it on it not being developed by Sonic Team. Not just because of the Dimps games getting plenty of recognition, but because Nocturnus Gate appeared as a stage in Mario and Sonic at the Olympic Winter games. If I had to put money on any reason, it's that SEGA doesn't care about it very much, or it doesn't fit with their current vision for the series. It's not like there was any legal hangups surrounding Tails Skypatrol or Waku Waku Sonic Patrol Car, and this is the same SEGA who arbitrarily limits the use of Marine the raccoon.

That, and even though SEGA absolutely definitively owns the Chronicles content (Penders's suit never actually made it anywhere despite what lies he will tell you), I'd have to imagine they simply don't feel like dealing with him, given that this is the trigger-happy copyright troll who claimed he was going to sue Paramount for "Knuckles's dad using master emerald energy". Even though he'd still have no case, it's just a drain on resources and PR that the company would rather not bother with for such niche concepts and characters.

 

Also, keep in mind, you have to involve the now defuncted BioWare, who are owned by EA. And to add more information, EA and SEGA doesn't have any good terms to this day ever since the Dreamcast era.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Well that doesn't really matter, unless you're implying that some part of the content in Chronicles is owned by anyone other than SEGA, which its inclusion in the encyclo-speed-ia would contradict. It might stand in the way of a re-release, but there has been no evidence that there are any issues, whereas Pocket Adventure was excluded because of issues with SNK.

Again, Chronicles is a niche title, it was never SEGA's first priority, it's not very good (I have no idea how well it sold), and it's got the baggage of a crazy internet man trying to sue them for it. There just isn't a place for it as anything but a footnote, and I think a lot of people only care because it introduced a girl echidna and ends on a cliffhanger.

[Zonic 2099]

Sonic was in his infancy back then. DiC & Archie didn't think they could just work with a super fast blue Hedgehog and his two tailed fox sidekick fighting a fat man putting small animals in robots. With the optional Chaos Emeralds to go super. Hence the need to give Sonic his freedom fighter allies and two siblings and Robotnik his henchmen in Snively, Scratch, Grounder, Coconuts and Sleet & Dingo.

Had DiC created SATam/AoSTH/Sonic Underground and Archie made their comic at some point in between Sonic Heroes release and Sonic 06's even with every single person who worked for the show and comic I'd imagine very few of the characters and locations created for the shows and comic would actually end up being created.

Why create more friends or siblings to co-star with Sonic when he has allies besides Tails in Knuckles, Amy, The Chaotix probably minus Mighty, Big, Cream and can work along side Shadow, Rouge & Omega. There wouldn't really be a need for the Kingdom of Acorn or Planet Mobius when Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and 06 show that humans also shown to live on the world Sonic inhabits unless they took the Sonic X approach.

Hell, I'd even imagine Ken might have ended up more interested in Shadow than Knuckles because the former's more science fiction than the latter. And Sonic Adventure already playing with Echidna lore.

[horridus]

Penders' memory is extremely selective- back in the earliest days of the fandom the Internet was still in its relative infancy. The moment fans started connecting and became aware of the discrepancies between the various Sonic media out there, factionalism and fandom conflicts emerged. This is just the latest chapter in his attempts to construct a narrative that the games were the LEAST important part of the franchise. It's disingenuous as hell. 

[Rabbitearsblog]

11 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Sonic was in his infancy back then. DiC & Archie didn't think they could just work with a super fast blue Hedgehog and his two tailed fox sidekick fighting a fat man putting small animals in robots. With the optional Chaos Emeralds to go super. Hence the need to give Sonic his freedom fighter allies and two siblings and Robotnik his henchmen in Snively, Scratch, Grounder, Coconuts and Sleet & Dingo.

Had DiC created SATam/AoSTH/Sonic Underground and Archie made their comic at some point in between Sonic Heroes release and Sonic 06's even with every single person who worked for the show and comic I'd imagine very few of the characters and locations created for the shows and comic would actually end up being created.

Why create more friends or siblings to co-star with Sonic when he has allies besides Tails in Knuckles, Amy, The Chaotix probably minus Mighty, Big, Cream and can work along side Shadow, Rouge & Omega. There wouldn't really be a need for the Kingdom of Acorn or Planet Mobius when Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and 06 show that humans also shown to live on the world Sonic inhabits unless they took the Sonic X approach.

Hell, I'd even imagine Ken might have ended up more interested in Shadow than Knuckles because the former's more science fiction than the latter. And Sonic Adventure already playing with Echidna lore.

Uh Ken...the games have always been important to the franchise.  If it wasn't for the games, then the franchise wouldn't even exist in the first place.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

https://thankskenpenders.tumblr.com/post/689341098842259456/i-havent-been-keeping-tabs-on-the-man-because

tfw there's been nearly 300 comics of sonic released ever since this graphic novel has been announced, and yet not a single chapter has been released.

[Razule]

To be fair, I haven't released a single chapter in that time either. Most people haven't. Can we really blame him? We're living in a pandemic.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

To be fair, I haven't released a single chapter in that time either. Most people haven't. Can we really blame him? We're living in a pandemic.

1. Most of us aren't trying to sell a seven part graphic novel series.

2. The pandemic covers exactly two to three years, not the other 9 to 10. 

3. It doesn't help that he loved to dunk on the IDW/Archie creative teams in that time.

4. He was partly responsible for a long-running universe to end up getting completely gutted to make said graphic novel series he is yet to put out a single chapter of.

5. Numerous people - both in web comics and indie comic form have gotten out more pages, chapters and results in far less time than he has done within 12 years.

6. He has been actively trying to sell merchandise and other items from this graphic novel series that is yet to see a single chapter released.

[SharkSoldier]

13 hours ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Sonic was in his infancy back then. DiC & Archie didn't think they could just work with a super fast blue Hedgehog and his two tailed fox sidekick fighting a fat man putting small animals in robots. With the optional Chaos Emeralds to go super. Hence the need to give Sonic his freedom fighter allies and two siblings and Robotnik his henchmen in Snively, Scratch, Grounder, Coconuts and Sleet & Dingo.

Had DiC created SATam/AoSTH/Sonic Underground and Archie made their comic at some point in between Sonic Heroes release and Sonic 06's even with every single person who worked for the show and comic I'd imagine very few of the characters and locations created for the shows and comic would actually end up being created.

Why create more friends or siblings to co-star with Sonic when he has allies besides Tails in Knuckles, Amy, The Chaotix probably minus Mighty, Big, Cream and can work along side Shadow, Rouge & Omega. There wouldn't really be a need for the Kingdom of Acorn or Planet Mobius when Sonic Adventure 1, 2 and 06 show that humans also shown to live on the world Sonic inhabits unless they took the Sonic X approach.

Hell, I'd even imagine Ken might have ended up more interested in Shadow than Knuckles because the former's more science fiction than the latter. And Sonic Adventure already playing with Echidna lore.

Someone tell Ken that Internet Fandoms only started to grow between the end of the 2nd millennium and the beginning of the 3rd.

[jungle_penguins]

Given the recent revelations somewhere in this thread, he seems to be just testing the waters legal wise, thus the motivation to actually complete it isn't there at all until he believes it's safe. Why he doesn't move to original projects in the meantime is anyone's guess. 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Testing the waters for twelve years?