Megathread The Lara-Su Chronicles and Ken Penders topic - READ PAGE 164, POST 4096

[Razule]

12 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

Ummm...I thought that the IDW series took place after Sonic Forces, which is a game.  What is Ken talking about?

Ian did indeed say that. They have referenced past games though, so it must be a case-by-case thing. 

[Zaysho]

12 hours ago, Adamis said:

Same thing regarding Shade. He said he only plans to use the name as a pseudo for Julie-Su, and that Sega "surrendered" the rights to the character by not fighting for it, so he thinks he can just take anything like that.

You know, for a guy who acts like an expert on creators' rights and copyright law, he never seems to know what he's talking about.

 

27 minutes ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Um... what? Even for Ken that's a pretty non nonsensical conclusion for a mandate.

It's not even a "mandate," it's a preference toward newer, original stories and/or not spoiling new games (which might have their own one-shots since TSR did that). It's also just flat out untrue that the book can't reference old events because IDW already does that albeit broadly rather than dealing with the specifics (Ian cites Neo Metal Sonic as an example in the timestamp SoaH links). That actually was one of my few issues reboot Archie did even though it kinda had to due to the nature of the reboot. There's still obviously flexibility but Ian seems to prepare contingencies for these things (again mentioning he expected Neo to be flagged but he was approved and Sega suggested the reasoning for it). I'm not saying I agree with it wholesale, but listening to Ian it at least makes sense how he tries to approach it.

It's not really a surprise that Penders would take a snippet of something Ian said and blow it out of proportion, though.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

37 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

It's not really a surprise that Penders would take a snippet of something Ian said and blow it out of proportion, though.

Penders would probably take whatever Ian decides to have for lunch that day and blow it out of proportion.

[Rabbitearsblog]

33 minutes ago, Razule said:

Ian did indeed say that. They have referenced past games though, so it must be a case-by-case thing. 

That's what confused me about what Ken is saying. I'm assuming that they meant that they can't use previous storylines or allude to newer Sonic games in risk of spoiling the plots of the newer games.  Although, I did hear Ian say that SEGA kind of wanted the comics to be its own thing, while still taking place in the continuity of the games.

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, Zonic 2099 said:

Um... what? Even for Ken that's a pretty non nonsensical conclusion for a mandate.

No, the best approach to Sonic is the one that fans enjoy and SEGA approves. If SEGA tells IDW to drop all of their plans for issue 50 and adapt Sonic Battle, than they have to adapt Sonic Battle.

 

I can't tell who had the worse take on this article, Penders or GG7A.

2 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

 Although, I did hear Ian say that SEGA kind of wanted the comics to be its own thing, while still taking place in the continuity of the games.

It makes sense. If the comics mess with too many game elements, there could be some major plot holes and confusion for fans if the games go in a different direction.

[Rabbitearsblog]

14 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I can't tell who had the worse take on this article, Penders or GG7A.

It makes sense. If the comics mess with too many game elements, there could be some major plot holes and confusion for fans if the games go in a different direction.

Agree.  I think that it's a good call for the comics to be their own thing because not every Sonic fan who play the games are going to read the comics and vice versa.  Trying to tie so many story ideas to each other would only confuse everyone if they only do one or the other.

[horridus]

Soo I did some looking around, and courtesy of our very own @Nestor, I found this on ye old Twitter-

 

Oh my fucking LORD. 

"Override" wasn't just some made up thing from that Lara-Su hate wiki. It was real. IT WAS REAL ALL ALONG. 

And I guess it's as we all thought, but couldn't believe to be so- he's really gonna just... reprint shit with characters he objectively has no ownership over. 

[Ryannumber1gamer]

14 minutes ago, horridus said:

Soo I did some looking around, and courtesy of our very own @Nestor, I found this on ye old Twitter-

 

Oh my fucking LORD. 

"Override" wasn't just some made up thing from that Lara-Su hate wiki. It was real. IT WAS REAL ALL ALONG. 

And I guess it's as we all thought, but couldn't believe to be so- he's really gonna just... reprint shit with characters he objectively has no ownership over. 

I feel like some context is needed, who or what is Override?

[horridus]

Just now, Ryannumber1gamer said:

I feel like some context is needed, who or what is Override?

Evidently? The new Big Bad Guy for Lara-Su Chronicles. 

Back when that Lara-Su Chronicles joke wiki was around, there was this article for someone called 'Override'. I don't remember the exact content, but I just remember thinking I'd never seen or heard Penders mention the guy, and so I wondered if it was just some misunderstanding that got treated like a legit thing, as sometimes happens with wikis. 

So imagine my surprise when it turns out... no, he's real, and evidently he's our brand new Big Bad for Lara-Su. Who we... have absolutely no info on or any context for, other than this page. This ugly, ugly as sin page... 

[CertifiedNobody]

33 minutes ago, horridus said:

Soo I did some looking around, and courtesy of our very own @Nestor, I found this on ye old Twitter-

 

Oh my fucking LORD. 

"Override" wasn't just some made up thing from that Lara-Su hate wiki. It was real. IT WAS REAL ALL ALONG. 

And I guess it's as we all thought, but couldn't believe to be so- he's really gonna just... reprint shit with characters he objectively has no ownership over. 

So is this implying that the Lara-Su Chronicles and Mobius: 25/30 Years Later timelines coexist as offshoots of the original timeline? If so that means that lore-wise, either the Super Genesis Wave wiped this world out, or more Archie worlds survived the reboot than the comic implied.

And while we know he can't use Sonic's name, are Knuckles' design or that warped Sonic even remotely possible for him to show? The spiked fists and white crest make it way too obviously Knuckles for him to legally get away with. This isn't even taking the rest of the issue into account, this page alone is extremely legally dubious.

[Rabbitearsblog]

Is he allowed to remaster the Archie series?  Doesn't he have to go through some legal issues with Archie and SEGA first?

[horridus]

2 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

Is he allowed to remaster the Archie series?  Doesn't he have to go through some legal issues with Archie and SEGA first?

Penders has never elaborated on how this is meant to work beyond 'take my word for it'. While he owns the STORIES, he does not own the SEGA/SaTAM characters, and while he could republish the stories themselves, he in theory should not be legally permitted to use Sonic or Knuckles or Sally and so forth. So honestly, the only explanation I can think of is that he's banking on being so small potatoes that SEGA won't even bother. Assuming he doesn't want to force a confrontation for sympathy and exposure. 

[CertifiedNobody]

35 minutes ago, Rabbitearsblog said:

Is he allowed to remaster the Archie series?  Doesn't he have to go through some legal issues with Archie and SEGA first?

He owns the stories but not the characters. While the names could be changed, the character designs are pretty legally damning.

31 minutes ago, horridus said:

Penders has never elaborated on how this is meant to work beyond 'take my word for it'. While he owns the STORIES, he does not own the SEGA/SaTAM characters, and while he could republish the stories themselves, he in theory should not be legally permitted to use Sonic or Knuckles or Sally and so forth. So honestly, the only explanation I can think of is that he's banking on being so small potatoes that SEGA won't even bother. Assuming he doesn't want to force a confrontation for sympathy and exposure. 

Considering something as small as Sonic Omens was able to gain Sega's legal attention, I don't think he has a chance of getting away with this.

Maybe we will actually see this get released next year. This isn't being widely released, right? As much as I hate to admit it, I wouldn't hesitate to give Penders the money to own something like this. If only because of how surreal it'd be own a rerelease of a pre-reboot archie comic in 2022 that's disconnected from both Sega and Archie.

[Nestor]

4 hours ago, horridus said:

Soo I did some looking around, and courtesy of our very own @Nestor, I found this on ye old Twitter -

As much as I'd like to, I'm afraid I can't take credit for this one - this wasn't actually me! Just apparently someone with a similar username and icon - this is what happens when you use a character's name as your username...

 

I also can't help but notice that Override is saying that the Praetorian has ruptured the space/time continuum again and calls Knuckles Praetorian immediately, implying that this has happened before and that Praetorian is his orignal version's designator - I wouldn’t be surprised if Ken tries to make it so that his Lara-Su Chronicles universe is the 'original' that the Archie Sonic universe deviated from and is now being returned to.

[Adamis]

I confirm that this page is legit. That's the same one I got a few years ago.

[horridus]

4 hours ago, Nestor said:

As much as I'd like to, I'm afraid I can't take credit for this one - this wasn't actually me! Just apparently someone with a similar username and icon - this is what happens when you use a character's name as your username...

 

I also can't help but notice that Override is saying that the Praetorian has ruptured the space/time continuum again and calls Knuckles Praetorian immediately, implying that this has happened before and that Praetorian is his orignal version's designator - I wouldn’t be surprised if Ken tries to make it so that his Lara-Su Chronicles universe is the 'original' that the Archie Sonic universe deviated from and is now being returned to.

Ack, mea culpa. I'll go put on my dunce cap. 

Buut yeah, I noticed that as well, and I'm pretty certain that's the intention. It's a pretty scummy retcon to make, on like a number of levels. And yet somehow, it's exactly the kind of thing I'd expect from Penders at this point. 

[CertifiedNobody]

7 hours ago, Nestor said:

I also can't help but notice that Override is saying that the Praetorian has ruptured the space/time continuum again and calls Knuckles Praetorian immediately, implying that this has happened before and that Praetorian is his orignal version's designator - I wouldn’t be surprised if Ken tries to make it so that his Lara-Su Chronicles universe is the 'original' that the Archie Sonic universe deviated from and is now being returned to.

That's not necessarily the case. Chaos Knuckles ruptured space/time several times before, and even if Override (that sounds way too much like a Transformer name) remembered the old timeline, his memories of the new one would still take priority, so he'd know Knuckles as the Praetorian. Or maybe in the new timeline, Knuckles has altered reality several times, and Override is only aware that there was a previous timeline but not anything else.

[Zonic 2099]

22 hours ago, Zaysho said:

It's not really a surprise that Penders would take a snippet of something Ian said and blow it out of proportion, though.

Sometimes I forget just how much Ken is willing to distort facts and warp statements to see and hear what he wants. Had I remembered he is the same man who took "Shade is Julie-Su done right" as "SEGA/BioWare stole Ken's work." then I probably wouldn't have been too shocked.

[horridus]

Sooo more on that leak- 

 

 

 

 

 

Sooo yeah, a few things- 

1) Gotta love how in that one flashback panel, K'nox isn't conveying anything like pride or happiness or paternal love when presumably overseeing his daughter's training. He's just... there. 

2) Great googily moogily, Penders cannot do dialogue bubble layout to save his life. Like, seriously, this is honestly kind of embarrassing. 

3) He was... originally using pirated scans, before relying on a fanboy to acquire the digital release. And said fanboy proceeded to leak the goods. 

Ten years. It's almost been ten years, and this is the sum total of Penders' work on Lara-Su Chronicles... and it ain't even the main story. Just... my holy Lord I knew it was gonna be this way, but to see it in action is just staggering all the same. 

[Mr Silvia]

Jesus christ, what the fucking fuck? This is almost too stupid to believe 

[Shaddy Zaphod]

Just so I am understanding correctly -- he was planning to reprint old Archie stories, which he maybe had a right to do. We got that. But we're now learning that he was actually changing them to align with his new Lara-Su bullshit, which means that he's trying to release what is technically a different work but still using SEGA's intellectual property, which is a copyright violation. That's what's going on here?

No, oh, okay, I see now. He's just straight-up lifting Archie material and putting it in his TLSC work, names and all? Well, that's equally-fucked.

[Zaysho]

There is... so, so much going on here I don't even know what to say.

He not only used low quality scans, but later Archie own comiXology releases wholesale (this is exactly Archie's style of "remastering" before they killed the Archives and they had redone everything and released it digitally prior to ending the reprint lines). No edits to the artwork or dialogue (unless you count numbering every piece of text for reading order because... ????) with just some of his own "additions" slotted in.

Glad to know the book I loved died for this garbage. Twice.

[CertifiedNobody]

2 hours ago, horridus said:

Sooo more on that leak- 

 

 

 

 

 

Sooo yeah, a few things- 

1) Gotta love how in that one flashback panel, K'nox isn't conveying anything like pride or happiness or paternal love when presumably overseeing his daughter's training. He's just... there. 

2) Great googily moogily, Penders cannot do dialogue bubble layout to save his life. Like, seriously, this is honestly kind of embarrassing. 

3) He was... originally using pirated scans, before relying on a fanboy to acquire the digital release. And said fanboy proceeded to leak the goods. 

Ten years. It's almost been ten years, and this is the sum total of Penders' work on Lara-Su Chronicles... and it ain't even the main story. Just... my holy Lord I knew it was gonna be this way, but to see it in action is just staggering all the same. 

What does Nester mean by "Ken Penders' Genesis Wave"?

13 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

There is... so, so much going on here I don't even know what to say.

He not only used low quality scans, but later Archie own comiXology releases wholesale (this is exactly Archie's style of "remastering" before they killed the Archives and they had redone everything and released it digitally prior to ending the reprint lines). No edits to the artwork or dialogue (unless you count numbering every piece of text for reading order because... ????) with just some of his own "additions" slotted in.

Glad to know the book I loved died for this garbage. Twice.

I just assumed the numbering was there for weird script reasons. Is that actually the final version? 

Also, one thing I didn't mention before is that the empty space for the final page of 25 Years Later is horrendous. He could've formatted it so much better...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

In ten years, Penders never thought to find professionals or decent artists to help with this project.

…then again…how much would it cost to make a comic issue? I know the commission price would be $200-300 per page at the lowest, but $10k for a full 32 page doesn’t seem like it would be that difficult to save up if it took a full decade to get this much.

[CertifiedNobody]

Here's a version of the page that wastes less space. Keep in mind, I'm a 17 year old who did this in 5 minutes for fun. Penders had years to decide how he wanted to format it as something he intended to sell.

I also changed the color of the gray to be more visually appealing.