Sonic Runn..er wait... "SSMB YOU CREATED A TIME PARADOX!"

[PSI Wind]

But what about the combination of the Wii U's eDRAM and GPGPU?

[Meta77]

I wouldn't say people use it as the poor mans excuse. They simply state facts about the unit but whenever someone does point out how underpowered it is to others in non flaming ways die hard nintedo fans flip tables on it.

Mario kart looks nice but I do not think sega should copy it. They should try there own thing but try not to make sonic as colorful and cheery. Make it dark in some ways. Imagine sonic 2 and 3 stages in full 3d they would be sort of dark themed stages in a few areas. Sonic lost world was just a bit to cartoony I think in looks.

[Scar]

But what about the combination of the Wii U's eDRAM and GPGPU?

Let's put it this way.

The XBone's eSRAM pool (and any hypothetical use of GPGPU, isn't enough for it to close the gap between in at the PS4 in any meaningful way. So I ask you, is it really going to make any difference when it comes to the Wii U?

Let's not make any mistake here, the Wii U is quite simply, technically inferior to the other two 8th gen systems. Why that is? Well, there are numerous factors, like Nintendo's direction as a company, silicon budget being spent on the gamepad and so on. In the end, it doesn't really matter.

 

What does this have to do with Sonic? Well, that depends on SEGA, and how much money they're willing to spend on a single project.

Which, right now doesn't appear to be the case.

The Wii U will probably be used for the foundation of a game, and the PS4 and Xbone versions will just add some extra toppings to make things a little fancier (stuff like rendering resolution, framerates, particle effects, lighting, textures, polygon counts, number of objects on-screen and draw-distance).

 

Think of it this way:

 

The Wii U version will be a nice, elegant margarita pizza.

The PS4 and Xbone versions will have extra toppings on top, to make it fancier.

[Conando]

That's the likely route, yes. I wouldn't be worrying about another UnWiished situation at least.

[Gabz Girl]

Yeah let's hope SEGA is developing for the Wii U and then upscaling the PS4 and Xbone versions. I don't know if SEGA will take the risk and make something super ambitious like Sonic 06 *shudder* or Sonic Unleashed. They're not like that anymore, which is a shame but hey, as long as we don't get another Unwiished I'm happy with whatever they do! 8D

[Badnik Mechanic]

Urm... guys...

 

Why are we hoping for 'up-scaling' from the Wii U when every console generation has taught us that it's a really bad idea to try and 'port up' from a lower spec system? 

 

Downscaling from other consoles has always produced better results for each version, everybody freaks out about 'Oh the Nintendo system will miss out!' No it won't. 

 

It'll only miss out if it's developed by a secondary team working on a different version. If the Nintendo version is the same as the PS4/XBO version, then developing it on either an XBO or PS4 dev kit will give the Wii U version a much better look for a multi-format title.

[Hero of Legend]

Urm... guys...

 

Why are we hoping for 'up-scaling' from the Wii U when every console generation has taught us that it's a really bad idea to try and 'port up' from a lower spec system? 

 

Downscaling from other consoles has always produced better results for each version, everybody freaks out about 'Oh the Nintendo system will miss out!' No it won't. 

 

It'll only miss out if it's developed by a secondary team working on a different version. If the Nintendo version is the same as the PS4/XBO version, then developing it on either an XBO or PS4 dev kit will give the Wii U version a much better look for a multi-format title.

 

I swear the other way around is commonly easier, don't forget, PS4 and XBO are much more powerful, and if the game really uses what they're capable of over Wii U, they'd have to make dire reductions for it to run on Wii U, maybe not as bad as the COD games to Wii from PS360, but to me it's obvious that there'd be too much evidence of a reduced version, over the other way where they can make a very pretty Wii U game and make it look even better on PS4 and XBO.

 

I dunno, I'm no programmer.

[Frogging101]

I swear the other way around is commonly easier, don't forget, PS4 and XBO are much more powerful, and if the game really uses what they're capable of over Wii U, they'd have to make dire reductions for it to run on Wii U, maybe not as bad as the COD games to Wii from PS360, but to me it's obvious that there'd be too much evidence of a reduced version, over the other way where they can make a very pretty Wii U game and make it look even better on PS4 and XBO.

 

I dunno, I'm no programmer.

Well, technically it is easier, but that's not what's important here.

Porting to less powerful hardware actually isn't difficult either though, and I say this with an understanding of the graphics pipeline. Textures can be scaled down to save RAM, shaders can be removed from the pipeline (or modified) to increase framerate, and LOD thresholds, draw distances and other variables can be tweaked to reduce the amount of work done every frame.

Porting to more powerful hardware requires less work as these changes don't need to be made at all. But again, that's not the issue. The problem is that when you develop for the lowest common denominator and port it to more capable hardware, you end up with a game that comparatively looks bad on the more capable platform.

One can either have a game that looks its best on all platforms, or one that looks good for one platform but relatively awful on the more powerful ones.

[Badnik Mechanic]

I was under the impression it was easier purely because you are reducing to fit the need as opposed to working from a standard which might not even be the top standard for that system, then trying to add to another version for a system which might have an 'acceptable' standard which is higher still.

 

That's a very basic explanation, but I think you'll get the idea from that. One example I can think of is when RE 4 got ported to the PS2 and there was a big hullabaloo about the number of trees? There was a bit of a thing about had it been the other way around, then those trees would probably not be in the GC version.

 

Quite sure that despite it being in his words 'a right bastard to develop for' the PS3 was picked as the lead console for the original All-Stars racing because if you knew what you were doing, it produced better results than trying to 'port up' as a certain Sumo dev we all know put it.

[PSI Wind]

Urm... guys...

 

Why are we hoping for 'up-scaling' from the Wii U when every console generation has taught us that it's a really bad idea to try and 'port up' from a lower spec system? 

 

Downscaling from other consoles has always produced better results for each version, everybody freaks out about 'Oh the Nintendo system will miss out!' No it won't. 

 

It'll only miss out if it's developed by a secondary team working on a different version. If the Nintendo version is the same as the PS4/XBO version, then developing it on either an XBO or PS4 dev kit will give the Wii U version a much better look for a multi-format title.

But what about down-porting? People say its much more expensive.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

If down-porting were the way to go, why have several members told me that it's too expensive for Square Enix's KH3 and the Wii U?

[Jolt_TH]

That's really not for this topic, but I'd say that it probably wouldn't be worth it, money wise, for the amount of players who own the system. For Sonic It might be more viable use to a possibly larger fan base or maybe they have an engine that would be easier to down port or something. Point is each game is different and despite how much I love the thing to bits the Wii U is underpowered this gen and I wouldn't surprise of they drop the Wii U version to either make an " Unwiished" version of the game or just drop it completely , going where the money is.

[Badnik Mechanic]

If down-porting were the way to go, why have several members told me that it's too expensive for Square Enix's KH3 and the Wii U?

 

Because the real reason has nothing to do with expense, it's everything to do with sales.

 

But what about down-porting? People say its much more expensive.

 

There is no way I can know the exact costs for either method. And I would imagine it greatly differs depending on the game itself.

 

However, when it comes to the planning, especially the economical study before any major work starts, theres probably a discussion as to if the risks of making a lesser quality product for the higher end systems is more a benefit in the long run over a slightly reduced cost in the short term.

[azoo]

Didn't Sega say all they did for Sonic Lost World was develop it for PC then move it to Wii U? If so then I'd expect them to do the same for this game, with the XB1/PS4 version being at it's highest settings while the Wii U one is a notch lower.

 

I can't see Sega pushing the game too hard for the difference in power between Wii U and PS4Bone to matter, anyways. If anything, I'm guessing Wii U version would at most have 30fps instead of 60, and maybe feature slightly lower-res textures and lower-res models but that's about it.

[Sami]

I was under the impression it was easier purely because you are reducing to fit the need as opposed to working from a standard which might not even be the top standard for that system, then trying to add to another version for a system which might have an 'acceptable' standard which is higher still.

 

That's a very basic explanation, but I think you'll get the idea from that. One example I can think of is when RE 4 got ported to the PS2 and there was a big hullabaloo about the number of trees? There was a bit of a thing about had it been the other way around, then those trees would probably not be in the GC version.

 

Quite sure that despite it being in his words 'a right bastard to develop for' the PS3 was picked as the lead console for the original All-Stars racing because if you knew what you were doing, it produced better results than trying to 'port up' as a certain Sumo dev we all know put it.

 

RE4 wasn't natively built for a system an entire generation ahead of the PS2, though. 

 

Porting a game that actually takes advantage of hardware several times more powerful down to the Wii U isn't exactly as simple as removing a few trees. 

 

 

Well, technically it is easier, but that's not what's important here.

Porting to less powerful hardware actually isn't difficult either though, and I say this with an understanding of the graphics pipeline. Textures can be scaled down to save RAM, shaders can be removed from the pipeline (or modified) to increase framerate, and LOD thresholds, draw distances and other variables can be tweaked to reduce the amount of work done every frame.

Porting to more powerful hardware requires less work as these changes don't need to be made at all. But again, that's not the issue. The problem is that when you develop for the lowest common denominator and port it to more capable hardware, you end up with a game that comparatively looks bad on the more capable platform.

One can either have a game that looks its best on all platforms, or one that looks good for one platform but relatively awful on the more powerful ones.

 

Is all of that effort worth being done for the system Lost World bombed on? A down-port isn't going to happen. You certainly won't see it being done for the Wii U alone because yeah, it takes a lot of changing and testing and changing and testing, which requires plenty of money and time to be done.

Didn't Sega say all they did for Sonic Lost World was develop it for PC then move it to Wii U? If so then I'd expect them to do the same for this game, with the XB1/PS4 version being at it's highest settings while the Wii U one is a notch lower.

 

I can't see Sega pushing the game too hard for the difference in power between Wii U and PS4Bone to matter, anyways. If anything, I'm guessing Wii U version would at most have 30fps instead of 60, and maybe feature slightly lower-res textures and lower-res models but that's about it.

 

That's not really how game development works. Technically, all games are developed on PC and "ported" to other consoles, but that doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. If it were that simple we wouldn't be getting so many infamously god awful PC ports.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I would like to point out that the biggest part of optimizing ports is familiarity with the system, and at the moment Sonic team is most familiar with the wii-u, so doing a great port is much easier(I mean, once you figure out how to best manage elements to get a game running at 60FPS its not hard to repeat),

 

All the power in the world wont make up for familiarity with a system, thats part of the reason '06 was such a train wreck, they had no idea of how to use the systems properly

 

So yeah, at the  moment, the wii-u has an edge simply because sonic team already has a template for porting to the system, and the fact is the next game will still use similar tech at the base, which means optimization will be that much easier

[Conando]

Considering this is their first multiplat for this generation, it's safe to assume they're going to be safe about it as well. Porting up doesn't create the best possible outcome, but it prevents overbudgeting.

[Sami]

I would like to point out that the biggest part of optimizing ports is familiarity with the system, and at the moment Sonic team is most familiar with the wii-u, so doing a great port is much easier(I mean, once you figure out how to best manage elements to get a game running at 60FPS its not hard to repeat),

 

All the power in the world wont make up for familiarity with a system, thats part of the reason '06 was such a train wreck, they had no idea of how to use the systems properly

 

So yeah, at the  moment, the wii-u has an edge simply because sonic team already has a template for porting to the system, and the fact is the next game will still use similar tech at the base, which means optimization will be that much easier

 

Mmmm, this may not be true actually. Sonic Team ported Generations to PC, after all. The PS4 and Xbox One are both built very, very much like PCs. Neither of the two are bizarre, headache inducing pieces of tech like consoles used to be. 

[Kuzu]

Haven't Sega focused on porting up in the past? Its how we got the PS2 and Xbox ports of Heroes and Shadow if I recall. Unless that situation is different.

[Da Blu Hedgie]

Mmmm, this may not be true actually. Sonic Team ported Generations to PC, after all. The PS4 and Xbox One are both built very, very much like PCs. Neither of the two are bizarre, headache inducing pieces of tech like consoles used to be. 

Good point, except Sonic Team didn't handle the pc port, Devil's Details did.

http://store.steampowered.com/app/71340/

[Badnik Mechanic]

That's not really how game development works. Technically, all games are developed on PC and "ported" to other consoles, but that doesn't really mean much in the grand scheme of things. If it were that simple we wouldn't be getting so many infamously god awful PC ports.

 

Actually... I think we might have video of lost world running on the PC before it was nintendo-fied, there's about 3 seconds worth of footage in this random japanese documentary. Not sure if it's been posted in the main forum yet or not.

 

http://www3.nhk.or.jp/nhkworld/english/tv/imagine/arch.html#a20140109arch

 

Here you go. 

 

Not seen it for a while, but there's something in there which looks like very early PC footage. I might be wrong since it has been a while since I watched it, but it did stand out when I saw it.

 

Edit: Starts at 2:42.

[azoo]

Oh wow. Sonic Lost World beta footage / making-of! Awesome!

[VlaDDrakkeN]

I for one am really curious of what they have planned. Considering how well liked the story is(Well at least to me it seemed well liked), I can hope it will be just as good if not better! Well I hope. Still very curious, though I will laugh if its another Riders game. I make up the very few that actually like playing the games. XD

[Spееdy]

Wow, guys. Kellie, one of the admins at sega forums is saying that this whole story is incorrect information. http://forums.sega.com/showthread.php?506410-Sonic-game-announced-for-2015-(Wii-U-PS4-Xbox-One)&p=8504554&viewfull=1#post8504554 I dunno if it's already known.

[BlueFlare]

This not coming to PC means I need to get XBox One. >