Super Smash Bros. for Wii U/3DS - Settle It In Smash!

[SuperLink]

... You know, Soma, going by this line of logic, you're... kinda justifying the notion that one should wholesale dismiss Sonic Generations because one of its levels came from a generally panned game, even though it was actually executed greatly.

This is a very good point.

 

So long as Samus herself isn't affected negatively in some way, I can't say the idea of an Other M stage ruins much for me even if I didn't like the game's writing.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

... You know, Soma, going by this line of logic, you're... kinda justifying the notion that one should wholesale dismiss Sonic Generations because one of its levels came from a generally panned game, even though it was actually executed greatly.

 

it was more meant as "I'm done for the day, I'll come back and be reasonable about this later." 

 

Why would I throw away Smash Bros. over one dumb stage? I wouldn't have bought any of them if it came to that. I'm just... not terribly fond of Other M. Gimmie a minute to simmer down.

[Chris]

Other M, mechanically, was a good game (albeit not a Metroid one as it was labelled) - it suffered from horrible scripting and a general dismissal of any series staples that kept the series in the minds of gamers over the years. The design of the stage itself looks solid despite it's origins.

I'd like to see Ridley's theme from the Prime trilogy as a music option.

[Chaos Warp]

Other M, mechanically, was a good game (albeit not a Metroid one as it was labelled) - it suffered from horrible scripting and a general dismissal of any series staples that kept the series in the minds of gamers over the years. The design of the stage itself looks solid despite it's origins.

I'd like to see Ridley's theme from the Prime trilogy as a music option.

Not really. You could spam the dodge-"Sense" thing to make combat really easy by gaining instant charge shots, not to mention how archaic control in 3d with a D-pad is. And then there's the issues with the excessive linearity..................

[WhoWhatMan]

Because of this stage, I really hope Samus has an "emotional breakdown" if Ridley is a stage hazard, I found that stupidly funny in Other M.

[Chaos Warp]

Because of this stage, I really hope Samus has an "emotional breakdown" if Ridley is a stage hazard, I found that stupidly funny in Other M.

don't joke about that bro

[-Robin-]

This is the first time a stage not from the original Metroid is representing the main Metroid series, and that's good enough for me. I'm still sore Smash never had a Maridia or SR388 stage.

[Gregzilla]

This is the first time a stage not from the original Metroid is representing the main Metroid series, and that's good enough for me. I'm still sore Smash never had a Maridia or SR388 stage.

 

Melee and Brawl both had two Metroid stages, so I'm wondering what the second one here will be (assuming there is one).  I'd love Maridia, or Phendrana Drifts, or something from Corruption.  Though since Other M pretends the Prime games never happened, I wonder if they will have any sort of representation.

[The_Disney_Dork]

I'm sure this has been asked a million times already but....do you guys think that Sonic will be returning?

[Solly]

Finally, the Wii Fit Trainer and Villager on 3DS.

I've gotta say, the 3DS graphics look pretty good.

 

Sakurai on Miiverse:

 

Pic of the day. I guess we haven't shown the Villager or the Wii Fit Trainer on the 3DS until now. By the way, their outlines can be made thinner or made to disappear completely.

So you can get rid of the outlines? That's cool to have as an option, although they are there for a reason.

Edited August 21, 2013 by Solly

[Nintendoga]

Megaton.

You can make the outlines disappear? That's awesome! 

Sakurai should do more close-up shots of the 3DS version. The models are very well done for most characters.

Edit: I also love how he just so casually announces something pretty big, like "Oh and you can remove the oultines or whatever, who cares."

Edited August 21, 2013 by Nintendoga

[Danj86]

It's probably already been said, but It'd be super freakin' awesome if Lucina was in Brawl. I grow weary of Marth. Not that I have anything against him. Or Chrom would be cool too...not as cool as Lucina though...

[Gabz Girl]

What if we get Metroid trophies of characters such as Anthony (he's awesome IMO) and...Adam? Oh dear, what then?

 

Anyway, great to hear you can get rid of the outlines on the 3DS version. I think I'll just leave them tho cos they do stand out better that way. This version is looking better and better everytime I see new screenshots. ^^

 

 

 

It's probably already been said, but It'd be super freakin' awesome if Lucina was in Brawl. I grow weary of Marth. Not that I have anything against him.

 

 

Actually, we could be getting Marth, Chrom AND Lucina. On one hand it's awesome, on the other...they all have blue hair and will probably have similar movesets. I personally hope they put Gaius in there instead of Lucina. They have to keep Marth though, he's very important to the FE franchise.

[Marcello]

Couldn't Lucina just be an Alt.Costume for Marth?

Edited August 21, 2013 by MarcelloF

[JaidynReiman]

"Masked Marth" could in theory be an alternate costume of Marth, but it really wouldn't be Lucina in all technically since to actually make Lucina you'd need a new model and voice actor.

 

But yeah, I can't really see them dropping Marth. In all honesty though I would rather have Lucina in over Chrom.

[Solly]

Couldn't Lucia just be an Alt.Costume for Marth?

Really not too keen on the idea of making entirely separate characters alts of each other. Everyone always suggests something like this, but how would it even work? She's probably a bit shorter than him (since she's about half a head shorter than Chrom), with a thinner frame.

 

Not to mention, making her an alt costume would be a waste. They'd have to create an entirely new model, rig it to Marth's skeleton and hitboxes (not as easy as it sounds) and then bring in the actresses from at least two regions to record lines. All to make a character who, not only doesn't play any differently, but occupies the same exact spot on the character select menus. What would the interface even be like for selecting them?

I dunno, I see this suggested all the time, and there's a reason none of these games actually do it. 

[SuperLink]

Really not too keen on the idea of making entirely separate characters alts of each other. Everyone always suggests something like this, but how would it even work? She's probably a bit shorter than him (since she's about half a head shorter than Chrom), with a thinner frame.

 

Not to mention, making her an alt costume would be a waste. They'd have to create an entirely new model, rig it to Marth's skeleton and hitboxes (not as easy as it sounds) and then bring in the actresses from at least two regions to record lines. All to make a character who, not only doesn't play any differently, but occupies the same exact spot on the character select menus. What would the interface even be like for selecting them?

I dunno, I see this suggested all the time, and there's a reason none of these games actually do it. 

It's mostly just a suggestion for characters who would never normally be playable without being a clone otherwise. Extreme example is Zero's X alt in MvC3 (extreme because X coulda had his own moveset easily but people were glad to be able to play as him in some form at all).

 

Basically people would rather have Lucina as an alt than not at all. Surely that makes sense? New voices for her aren't even necessary.

 

And while I've no doubt it's difficult to re-rig animations and hitboxes and such, surely it can't be that tough if the Smash Bros fandom genuinely pumps out alt skins for characters like no tomorrow and have been doing so for at least 3 years? I saw a great Lucina skin for Marth just recently, made by a fan free of charge. Sure it's not official quality, but it's definitely possible without too much trouble.

 

They would be selected like Wario's alt costume is, probably. Honestly people just want to have the illusion of playing as a character that normally wouldn't get a spot. For a lot of fans, it's better than nothing. If this wasn't the case, Brawl skin hacking wouldn't be as massively popular as it is. Personally I've got a lovely hacked model of Rosalina over one of Peach's colours and I'm more than happy with it, so I'd be overjoyed if Nintendo took the opportunity to do something similar, different names and voice clips or not. I always loved playing as Peach's Daisy colour and calling it Daisy because I like Daisy but I don't think she needs her own slot. This is just an extension of that for additional fanservice.

Edited August 21, 2013 by SuperLink

[Solly]

It's mostly just a suggestion for characters who would never normally be playable without being a clone otherwise. Extreme example is Zero's X alt in MvC3 (extreme because X coulda had his own moveset easily but people were glad to be able to play as him in some form at all).

I don't really see Lucina or Chrom as a character that necessarily needs to be a clone, though. They have enough unique animations within the game, and their skills and reclass options leave a lot of room for creativity. Yeah, we've got more than one character with a sword, but there are so many ways to hold and swing one.

 

Basically people would rather have Lucina as an alt than not at all. Surely that makes sense? New voices for her aren't even necessary.

That much does make sense, but we're talking about Smash Bros here. Clone characters who don't have enough unique moves are already the subject of a lot of criticism. If so many people see characters like Falco, Ganondorf and, going back a bit, Roy as wastes, then what is a character who doesn't have anything different? I just think that if they are going to add someone, they should be making the most of it. I'm usually the last person to say something like this, but it would be better if they pointed their efforts in another direction entirely if they can't do a character justice.

 

Also, why wouldn't she need new lines? Would she use Marth's man-voice? Or would they recycle clips from Awakening, which aren't exactly in abundance? That'd probably be pretty awkward either way, and leave most people who wanted to see her disappointed.

 

And while I've no doubt it's difficult to re-rig animations and hitboxes and such, surely it can't be that tough if the Smash Bros fandom genuinely pumps out alt skins for characters like no tomorrow and have been doing so for at least 3 years? I saw a great Lucina skin for Marth just recently, made by a fan free of charge. Sure it's not official quality, but it's definitely possible without too much trouble.

 

They would be selected like Wario's alt costume is, probably. Honestly people just want to have the illusion of playing as a character that normally wouldn't get a spot. For a lot of fans, it's better than nothing. If this wasn't the case, Brawl skin hacking wouldn't be as massively popular as it is. Personally I've got a lovely hacked model of Rosalina over one of Peach's colours and I'm more than happy with it, so I'd be overjoyed if Nintendo took the opportunity to do something similar, different names and voice clips or not. I always loved playing as Peach's Daisy colour and calling it Daisy because I like Daisy but I don't think she needs her own slot. This is just an extension of that for additional fanservice.

It's getting it up to official quality and making it look convincing that would be difficult. Not rocket science, but it'd be at the point where it probably wasn't worth the effort, since it would probably piss off as many fans as it pleased. Really though, it looks like we're on opposite sides of the fence on this one. Every time someone suggests "let's make them an alt costume" they're basically conceding that the character doesn't really have anything to offer, when I think that's absolutely not true.

 

Nobody needs their own slot, and everyone is more or less fanservice, so I really don't see any of that as a reason to half-ass a character. Hell, if you want my honest opinion, I think they could even make Daisy a legitimate playable character, looking at what they did to Captain Falcon, the Villager, etc. All of Peach's moves are based around her character, but Daisy, being a popular character in the Mario spin-off games, could be an ideal way to represent those series if they really tried.

[YoshiUnity]

Awesome to finally see Wii Fit Trainer and The Villager on the 3DS version. Also cool that you can actually kill the outline on the characters. I'm going to try the game without outlines first, then put them on to see which one works better for me. Really glad to have the option.

 

 

What if we get Metroid trophies of characters such as Anthony (he's awesome IMO) and...Adam? Oh dear, what then?

 

 

[Adam has not yet authorized the use of Coin Jump.]

 

[Adam has not yet authorized the use of Reflector.]

 

[Adam has not yet authorized the use of Pikmin Pluck.]

Edited August 21, 2013 by YoshiUnity the Aesthetic

[Marcello]

Ugh. Adam. What a disappointment he was. When I first heard of him in Fusion, I imagined someone very different. Laid back and cool, not the jerk with a stick up his bum.

 

And I imagined him looking like this:

[SuperLink]

Daisy could have her own slot, but a lot of people would inevitably feel like she was "wasting" a slot (which is besides my point mostly but smash fans). Lucina and Chrom are definitely unique enough, but that doesn't mean they will get their own slot at all. What if they don't? I'm not saying they shouldn't have their own slot, but if they don't, I'd rather have them as an alt costume then not playable at all! This would seriously make a lot of fans of characters who didn't make it in happy, and those who don't like it don't need to play as them, they're just alt costumes.

 

Thing is, every Nintendo character has something to offer, some more or less than others, but you said it yourself that making alts would take a while. How long do you think it'd take to make every character that people want to play as into their own fully fledged character with their own movesets, animations, voices and general game integration? Far, far longer, much longer than the game even has. I understand that you want certain characters to have their own slots, and no one is saying they shouldn't, but it's physically impossible for every character everyone wants to have their own slot, and it's extremely cost-effective and time-saving to push in the few that didn't make it as some bonus costumes for fans of those characters to enjoy.

 

You need to think realistically about how much the team is capable of. The roster is decided early in development, some characters simply will not make it. Would you rather not have any way of playing as those characters at all than see them as an alt. costume? It doesn't make them relegated to costume forever after all, Mario had a Wario costume in the first two Smash Bros games. If they want to put a character in the roster, they'll have a slot, but if they don't have a slot, it might be nice for a lot of fans to be able to play as the appearance of that character. I mean cause why not. It's the same reason games have cameo costumes at all. X and Jon Talbain weren't in MvC3 and had no real chance of getting in, but fans got to see representations of them via alt costumes for Zero and Ammy. I just don't see the problem with doing that. It's not like X and Jon Talbain were ruined or their chances of appearing in future spinoffs ruined.

Edited August 21, 2013 by SuperLink

[dabbido]

Haha you gotta love Sakurai (if youre a man in a manly way ) He just says the unexpected. I for one was kind of against the outlines, but I got warmed up to it after a while, Im glad theres an option though!!! And finally this screen puts many peoples fear to rest, that Wii Fit Trainer or Villager were absent from the 3DS version.

[Solly]

Daisy could have her own slot, but a lot of people would inevitably feel like she was "wasting" a slot (which is besides my point mostly but smash fans). Lucina and Chrom are definitely unique enough, but that doesn't mean they will get their own slot at all. What if they don't? I'm not saying they shouldn't have their own slot, but if they don't, I'd rather have them as an alt costume then not playable at all! This would seriously make a lot of fans of characters who didn't make it in happy, and those who don't like it don't need to play as them, they're just alt costumes.

It's an un-winnable situation. If the character gets in, people are gonna call it a wasted slot. If the character exists solely as someone's alt, then it was a waste of the character's appearance.

Thing is, every Nintendo character has something to offer, some more or less than others, but you said it yourself that making alts would take a while. How long do you think it'd take to make every character that people want to play as into their own fully fledged character with their own movesets, animations, voices and general game integration? Far, far longer, much longer than the game even has. I understand that you want certain characters to have their own slots, and no one is saying they shouldn't, but it's physically impossible for every character everyone wants to have their own slot, and it's extremely cost-effective and time-saving to push in the few that didn't make it as some bonus costumes for fans of those characters to enjoy.

 

You need to think realistically about how much the team is capable of. The roster is decided early in development, some characters simply will not make it. Would you rather not have any way of playing as those characters at all than see them as an alt. costume? It doesn't make them relegated to costume forever after all, Mario had a Wario costume in the first two Smash Bros games. If they want to put a character in the roster, they'll have a slot, but if they don't have a slot, it might be nice for a lot of fans to be able to play as the appearance of that character. I mean cause why not. It's the same reason games have cameo costumes at all. X and Jon Talbain weren't in MvC3 and had no real chance of getting in, but fans got to see representations of them via alt costumes for Zero and Ammy. I just don't see the problem with doing that. It's not like X and Jon Talbain were ruined or their chances of appearing in future spinoffs ruined.

Well it's obviously more cost-effective to have a character appear as an alt than it is to give them their own slot and moveset. That much doesn't need to be said. I am in no way suggesting the development team should be trying to overload the roster, or that the number of unique, fleshed-out characters they can have isn't finite. It is. But you also need to think realistically about how much effort they're going to want to put into an alternate costume. I can just as easily turn it around and say that you're the ones asking too much of the team by wanting them to sink that much time and money into something purely cosmetic.

 

Really, it's just cheesy to me, and I don't see what's so bad about saying "go big or go home." The Mario and Wario comparison doesn't even really hold up, because they weren't ever calling Mario "Wario" nor did they create a model for him or even put in a fraction of the amount of effort this would take. They were merely referencing him.

 

And I'm not so sure that making original characters alts wouldn't hurt their chances in future games. I say this because of the general reaction to clone characters.

 

Whenever I see someone talk about how they want Roy back, people dismiss it, saying he'd just be a clone because he was one, despite the fact that they could've made him original. And do you think that if Ganondorf debuted in Brawl instead of Melee, where he was only added because they had a bit of extra dev time, that he'd still be a clone of Captain Falcon? And I still see people saying Daisy would be a Peach clone despite them having nothing in common, all because of her costume. Characters being used as alts or clones are gonna have a hard time changing because it creates an expectation shared by fans and developers alike.

[LunarEdge]

I'm sure this has been asked a million times already but....do you guys think that Sonic will be returning?

I have strong hopes, I'm hoping he plays closely to his Project M moveset than anything though, with his break dance down-smash, homing attack that doesn't such and has great start up, an air forward-smash meteor smash and etc.. Also, even though it didn't really bother me before, if they do bring him back his alternate colors this time around should be more diverse, such as actually being red, green and etc. instead of a slightly different shade of blue. Also, nerf his final smash a bit or change it up (make it Colors or Lost World themed i guess).

[Danj86]

I didn't expect my comment to spark further debate.

I wanted to go back and look at the past games total number of characters to see if it could give us an idea of how many playable ones to expect. That being said, I don't really know how much space a Wii U game can hold, compared to a Wii game.

 

Super Smash Brothers: 12

I'd forgotten that Fire Emblem wasn't even known to the western audience back in the 64 days. Boy do I feel old.

 

Super Smash Brothers Melee: 25

Melee practically doubled the cast, but 6 of them are clones.

 

Super Smash Brothers Brawl: 35

I never bothered to count them before. The cast has increased by another 10. But some are absent that appeared in Melee.

 

I would also love to see Sonic join again. And even Snake. I just like how the companies collaborate and mix things up, and the Smash series has always been about the collaborative effort, isn't it?