'Sonic Lost World DS discussion "3DS, 2DS, ONE DS! Thunder Wisps are go!' Title credits to Hogfather

[Cyrus]

I didn't mean that literally..........

[Crippled Espurr]

The 3DS version for sure has limitations but they dont make the game inferior to the Wii U version, I mean the Wii U version might look super badass right now but when the full game is released some shit in the 3DS version could be better than shit in the Wii U version. So far Imo I think the 3DS version's exclusive Color Powers function & are better than the Color Powers on the Wii U version's for sure.

 

A: The defeat a certain # of enemies to pass thing seems pretty awesome, especially the mini bosses. They add challenge to the levels instead of just speeding right on through. Even if it's a frequent trend in Sonic Lost World's its not the most annoying thing ever.

 

B: The zones in the gameplay looks a little linear now, sure.  But this goes back to when the game comes out, gotta wait & see. Me personally I dont think the stages are gonna be straightforward, even though I can only identify stuff so far through the demo's & screenshots.

 

C: Auto what makes you think the screenshot with the lego cube head thingie looks like a boss? I dont thing a boss would need you to get a certain ammount of flickies to progress =P. And sorry if it sounds like im getting on every little thing you say Lol.

See what I mean ^

 

Well a notable limitation it's that you can go underneath a level even though it looks like you can, which isn't certainly an advantage, but that won't stop me for buying the game ^.^ And yeah I think the wisp selection seems better on the 3DS version IMO (Ivory Lighting FTW!!).

 

A: I know, right? I don't find it certainly annoying at all unless you're trying to do a speedrun. And at least those "mini bosses" are difficult enough, I mean those worms on Desert ruins didn't seem like a piece of cake. 

 

B: The level is linear, yes, but I don't really have a problem with it. Windy Hill is really linear and I don't know why DIMPS opted to put Homing chains and platforming sections as alternate paths instead of making a totally new path, but I still think it's cool, if you don't like the homing chains, you can go to the platforming sections, making it a bit less linear than it already is. The other levels seem somewhat linear but they're still amazing, especially Desert Ruins 1, which is pretty open, but with a surprisingly great level design when you know DIMPS is working on the 3DS version. 

 

C: He meant mini boss, and if it is, it's certainly interesting. I mean, it's a giant lego face, certainly more interesting than a giga-badnik IMO, which you will battle on a ROTATING section, or at least it looks like it. Oh and it will be most likely like the spider section of Silent Forest, because the structure looks spherical and you need more than 1 flickie to advance.  

[Da Blu Hedgie]

The 3DS version for sure has limitations but they dont make the game inferior to the Wii U version, I mean the Wii U version might look super badass right now but when the full game is released some shit in the 3DS version could be better than shit in the Wii U version. So far Imo I think the 3DS version's exclusive Color Powers function & are better than the Color Powers on the Wii U version's for sure.

 

A: The defeat a certain # of enemies to pass thing seems pretty awesome, especially the mini bosses. They add challenge to the levels instead of just speeding right on through. Even if it's a frequent trend in Sonic Lost World's its not the most annoying thing ever.

 

B: The zones in the gameplay looks a little linear now, sure.  But this goes back to when the game comes out, gotta wait & see. Me personally I dont think the stages are gonna be straightforward, even though I can only identify stuff so far through the demo's & screenshots.

 

C: Auto what makes you think the screenshot with the lego cube head thingie looks like a boss? I dont thing a boss would need you to get a certain ammount of flickies to progress =P. And sorry if it sounds like im getting on every little thing you say Lol.

See what I mean ^

A. Except they're spammed all over the place

 

B. To a point you could be right

[Crippled Espurr]

The 3DS version for sure has limitations but they dont make the game inferior to the Wii U version, I mean the Wii U version might look super badass right now but when the full game is released some shit in the 3DS version could be better than shit in the Wii U version. So far Imo I think the 3DS version's exclusive Color Powers function & are better than the Color Powers on the Wii U version's for sure.

 

A: The defeat a certain # of enemies to pass thing seems pretty awesome, especially the mini bosses. They add challenge to the levels instead of just speeding right on through. Even if it's a frequent trend in Sonic Lost World's its not the most annoying thing ever.

 

B: The zones in the gameplay looks a little linear now, sure.  But this goes back to when the game comes out, gotta wait & see. Me personally I dont think the stages are gonna be straightforward, even though I can only identify stuff so far through the demo's & screenshots.

 

C: Auto what makes you think the screenshot with the lego cube head thingie looks like a boss? I dont thing a boss would need you to get a certain ammount of flickies to progress =P. And sorry if it sounds like im getting on every little thing you say Lol.

See what I mean ^

 

Well, not being able of going undearneath the level it's a notable limitation that doesn't makes the gameplay any better, but I don't care about that as much as I cared before, It would've been cool, but I don't think it adds that much as some people think, but that's just my opinion.

 

A: I know right? It's actually pretty cool and I don't think it's a problem, unless you're doing speedruns. At least they're a bit challenging and not a dumb joke that's only there to slow down your gameplay, I mean those worms on Desert Ruins weren't that easy.

 

B: The level design might be linear, but it's pretty cool. Windy Hill it's probably the most linear stage, with no real alternate paths, but it's nice that DIMPS at least made an alternative platforming path instead of just adding homing chains like in Sonic Unleashed. The other levels has cool level design and structure, especially Desert Ruins 1, which is open, but certainly challenging.

 

C: He said a MINI BOSS, which I find pretty interesting, I mean it's a giant head which you'll fight on a rotating terrain, or at least it looks like. Something even more interesting it's that the terrain doesn't looks certainly big, and you need 4 flickies to advance, so it'll be most likely like the Spider Section on the Silent Forest.

 

A. Except they're spammed all over the place

 

B. To a point you could be right

 

Actually, save Desert Ruins 1, there's just one mini boss section per level.

[Cyrus]

That cobermani fellow described the game's control as being "more slippery and tight than Heroes", which is how I'd describe the horrible ground control in Shadow the Hedgehog. I REALLY hope he was exaggerating. He must be, because I've seen gameplay videos of SLW3DS with players moving just fine while turnung ar full speed and not having to jump to reposition themselves like you would have to do in ShtH. Also, someone commented that the control felt very natural/responsive.

[Crippled Espurr]

That cobermani fellow described the game's control as being "more slippery and tight than Heroes", which is how I'd describe the horrible ground control in Shadow the Hedgehog. I REALLY hope he was exaggerating. He must be, because I've seen gameplay videos of SLW3DS with players moving just fine while turnung ar full speed and not having to jump to reposition themselves like you would have to do in ShtH. Also, someone commented that the control felt very natural/responsive.

Well, I've read some guys impressions, incluiding the controls, and they weren't negative at all...

 

Sonic handles surprisingly well: I found it easy to change directions to maneuver around obstacles and pits, even when running.

 

In the Wii U demo Sonic felt somewhat loose and easier to over-steer, but I had no such problems when playing on the 3DS. -Michael "YTP" Cole.

 

Sonic himself controls and animates well. His movements aren’t slippery like in adventures past and it all feels quite natural.- Scott MacDonald

 

Hope that's a relief for you.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Dan a hed

[Da Blu Hedgie]

OMG so this dude blew through desert ruins 1, like it was nothing, he even defeated the worm things without getting hurt. Yeah the controls look solid. Terrible quality footage though, the sound capture is decent, at least this time I can hear the game over the crowd.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FDqN8qyonM0

Edited September 11, 2013 by sunic

[Lady Soniko]

precise platforming like in the worm chase shown is indeed going to be an inherent problem if the controls do turn out to be slippery like people have claimed which will leave the player frustrated that it isn't their own lack of skill that keeps fucking up their run, but the way Sonic handles.

 

I hope this isn't the case, because it's shaping up to be the best handheld Sonic I've seen in a long time.

[Zazz]

Soo, any day now we should get some news & screenshots for the bosses of Sonic Lost World for the 3DS & Wii U Versions. The 3DS is probabaly gonna get screenshots later though like always =/. Im so hyped & curious about the bosses though, especially Zavok. Zavok uses like the theme of every level you go though O-o. I noticed a Red Star Ring in the video where Zavok's boss was taking place. I wonder if he's a boss in every world you go into, other than the Area's boss itself =O.

[Zavok the SpinningSilver]

Well, the weird structures throughout Desert Ruins are confirmed to directly be Zomom's doing anyway. They're littered all over the place!

[Zazz]

Well, the weird structures throughout Desert Ruins are confirmed to directly be Zomom's doing anyway. They're littered all over the place!

Im soo damn curious about them heads though, I wonder why he made them, either way 34 days till the game comes out =D.

[NiGHTS]

You know, I haven't payed attention much to the 3ds version, but now im quite interested in it after glancing at gameplay footage and what not. Hopefully it shapes up to be a great game in the end.

[Zazz]

Still waiting for new screenshots on the bosses..

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zazz

[Indigo Rush]

It's better if you use the source link: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/34730

 

No need to go through kittens.

 

 

We spoke with the producer of Sonic Lost World about level design, pancakes, and Smash Bros.  

 

During E3 2013 Nintendo World Report had the opportunity to sit down with Takashi Iizuka to discuss Sonic Lost World for both Wii U and Nintendo 3DS. Mr. Iizuka was Senior Game Designer on Sonic the Hedgehog 3 & Knuckles for Genesis, and has played a leading role in many subsequent console Sonic games, including Director of Sonic Adventure and Sonic Adventure 2 and Producer of more recent games such as Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations. He has also been heavily involved in the Nights series, serving as both Director and Producer of Nights: Journey of Dreams on Wii.

Nintendo World Report (NWR): Hello, we're here with Takashi Iizuka. Can you please tell us what your title is?

Takashi Iizuka (TI): I am producer of Sonic Lost World.

NWR: For both versions?

TI: Yes, both versions.

NWR: So as producer what is your role in leading development? 

TI: A broad range of duties from being heavily involved in the early concept phase to basically managing the development and production process of titles going forward. 

NWR: The demo for Wii U on display had three very different types of levels. Could you please explain the level design philosophy and how you are approaching the different levels?

TI: A couple of things. One of the important goals of the development team when they were concepting the game early was they wanted to give the player more choice. There's always trade-offs in development and one of the trade-offs in past Sonic games for the 3D forward view sections was there's more of a linear path. You can go to the left or right, but you can't go too far to the left or right. The idea that the team had to try to address that and give the player more choice is to put Sonic on geometric shapes like a tube. Windy Hill is the first stage you can see in the build on the show floor and that is a great representative stage of the game because that's kind of the first geometric shape that they thought of. Of course there's going to be a lot more geometric shapes and types of levels in the game, but that was kind of their starting point to change things up and give the player more choice.

Another important point for the philosophy behind the level design and another important goal in development was to have a lot more variety both in the aesthetics and visuals of the stages and also in the gameplay of the stages. In previous games you would go to World 1 Stage 1, World 1 Stage 2, and the aesthetics would look similar, maybe a little bit different, but kind of similar and the gameplay you also could expect what you were going to get to a certain degree. This time they wanted to surprise players and create a lot more variety visually and in the gameplay sections, so [hence] the two stages in Desert Ruins. You can even see by the name, the two stages don't look like the desert. They are kind of candy stages. One is their take on more traditional side-view Sonic, which is very dynamic in the ways the camera is moving. The camera is moving all around and you are bouncing left and right and upwards. Also, in Desert Ruins 2, which is a forward view, it's kind of a auto-run forward view and uses these hex geometrical patterns to create this very cool type of challenge that you've never seen before in a Sonic game. 

NWR: You mentioned the level made of candy. Many of the levels have this more surreal look that we haven't really seen in past Sonic games so was one of the desires to surprise the players? Let's put pancakes in there. (laughs) They're not going to expect that! Or is there a theme that governs the worlds? 

TI: The candy stage sticks out as a little more unusual, even more than the other stages actually, but it still comes from what we were saying. You're in the Desert Ruins world now. Even though you might get tired of the desert after two stages you're going to be in the desert for six stages now. Players might get tired of that. So that's coming from the idea that we want to try something different. More variety, especially in the worlds that people might get more tired of.

You may have also noticed that there's been a general simplification of the graphic design. That's coming from a few different angles. Number one, in the past few games they've been using global illumination, baked-in HD backgrounds and they're very beautiful, but they're always trade-offs in development and one of the problems is that enemies and rings kind of bleed into the background and it can be harder to see them at times so this time they wanted to try something different and come up with more iconic and simplified graphics that make things pop so the enemies pop more, the rings pop more. Also the simplification of the graphics let us reach an important development goal that we've had for a long time which is 60 frames per second. Things definitely feel a lot more fluid at sixty frames per second which we weren't able to hit in past games with the HD backgrounds. And finally the development team members have wanted to kind of accentuate the connection to the past Genesis games.

Interpreter: Iizuka-san has said in the past that the two main inspirations for this game are the modern Sonic games like Generations and Colors, but also the Genesis games so those are kind of the parents of this title. 

NWR: We've talked about the Wii U game. I noticed that in the 3DS game, the sidescrolling levels have a bit more of a puzzle element with switches and the like. Can you talk a little about the difference in level design between the Wii U and 3DS games?

TI: The 3DS is actually a interesting title because it's the first time we've been able to do a 3D forward-looking Sonic game on a Nintendo handheld platform and it matches very nicely with the 3D features. And as you can probably see since you've played it, that a lot of the controls pretty much map directly over from the Wii U version. With that said, the level design is completely different so while there is the same story between the Wii U and the 3DS game and the general themes of the levels and the themes of the game are the same, the level design is completely different. There's not a single level in the Wii U and the 3DS that overlap and appear in both games. 

NWR: The 3DS game seemed to have a greater emphasis on wall jumping. Is that something unique to the 3DS or is that just not showcased in the Wii U version on the show floor?

TI: It really depends on the stage so it's not that 3DS is putting more emphasis on the wall jumping. It's just that the stages we've selected for E3 happen to put more emphasis on that and the Wii U version will have stages that require wall jumping to proceed as well so they're probably about the same in the emphasis of wall jumping.

NWR: Which level on display at E3 is your favorite?

TI: Probably I would have to say it is Windy Hill because we've spent so much time prototyping that level, different versions of the level, over and over. Tearing it apart and putting it back together, and trying to find the fun and great experience there for the gameplay we are trying to accomplish in this game. And also in the 3DS version, Windy Hill was also a test of the technology to see if we could build something on 3DS, [something] that was similar to what we're trying to do on Wii U. Putting in lots of ideas in unique ways to do things on the 3DS.

NWR: The demos on the floor are all single player. Can you discuss the co-op and versus multiplayer?

TI: We'll have different multiplayer modes on both Wii U and 3DS. On the Wii U, there's booth cooperative and versus multiplayer. In cooperative play, Sonic will be using the Wii U GamePad and someone can be supporting Sonic in co-op with the Wii Remote. In versus mode, one player will be playing on the TV screen and the other player will be racing using the GamePad so you don't have to have split screen. You both have your own screen and can race each other. The Wii U multiplayer is not on the Internet. It's basically everyone sitting on the same couch. The 3DS for the first time we're having 4-player versus racing over Wi-Fi and the Internet.

NWR: You've worked on many Sonic games over the years. What have you found makes for a good Sonic game in terms of level design and overall pacing of the game? 

TI: I think two really important aspects of Sonic are obviously speed, but also the platforming experience. I think if you go too far in one direction of supporting one or the other then that can harm the gameplay and make for a game that's not as good. One thing I'm very proud of with Sonic Lost World is that we've been able to create what I feel is a better balance between the speed and platforming than what we've had in our past games.

NWR: When you look back at the original Sonic the Hedgehog, it featured one button gameplay, run and you jump. Over time, more moves have been introduced, and maybe a little more complexity. How do you balance the additional movesets with trying to keep the game accessible and easy to understand?

TI: It's always a challenge. It's something we're thinking about it in development all the time. How to add complexity for the advanced user, but keep things simple and easy on the other hand. Especially when Sonic is moving fast you don't want to have a lot of buttons you have to push. As much as possible you want to limit your button pushes while your running to one thing or maybe two things at the most. Something that people can always push intuitively, immediately without thinking about it. An example where we were thinking about this in the new game is the homing attack and the double jump. In the past, we've always had the homing attack on the same button as the jump and you know that's great for simplicity, but there are development trade-offs. Sometimes you want to double jump and you push 'A' 'A' but the game doesn't read it contextually, it's hard to read exactly what the player wants to do. Sometimes the player even with enemies there, they want to double jump, but it does a homing attack so we decided to address that this time by having both the 'A' and 'B' button do a jump, but one of the buttons always does a jump with the homing attack and one always does a double jump. That way you can still push one to do a quick jump, but then you can separate your intentions by using one or the other.  

NWR: Do you find that the context sensitive controls sometimes confuse players? For example, there's a kick move in this game, but you can only do it when you're near an enemy. I know when I was playing I had difficulty understanding how that move worked because I could only do it when I was near an enemy, I couldn't practice. When you're play testing a Sonic game, how do you iron out those types of challenges?

TI: A couple things there. Yea, probably on the show floor, it's a little bit not clear when and how to use kick, but that's just because it's not a part of the full game. In the full game, there will be more of a contextual tutorial that will say, "hey you can use kick on these enemies" without getting in the way. And [there will be] other ways that will let the player know about that ability. Kind of the challenge there in development is, yes, when you're moving fast you definitely want players to just think of one thing and quickly attack enemies, but on the other side of the coin is that if you only have one attack that kills all enemies in the game then that can also lead to things getting a little bit boring. So that's why they decided to add the kick move to mix up the combat a little bit and we're trying to make it obvious that the kick needs to be used against enemies that have a hard shell so you can kind of read when you need to use the kick. 

NWR: One more question here. Sonic was very popular in Smash Bros. for Wii. Is there any possibility of him making a return appearance in the next Smash Bros.?

TI: All we can say is that we also think it would be awesome if he was in the next Smash Bros. So yea, but that's more of a question for Nintendo than us. 

NWR: Thank you very much for your time. 

TI: Thank you.

For more information and video of Sonic Lost World, be sure to check out our hands-on impressions of the Wii U and 3DS demos from the E3 show floor.

 

Thanks to Mr. Iizuka, his interpretor, and Sega for this interview opportunity and their time.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Indigo Rush

[Zazz]

It's better if you use the source link: http://www.nintendoworldreport.com/interview/34730

 

No need to go through kittens.

Damn O-o, well thanks Lol.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zazz

[Hero of Legend]

I saved all the 3DS screens from an article at gpara.com, all in 100% quality with zero artifacts and no watermarks. Should be all of the recent ones. And there's a lot.

 

Have a look.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k9c283u70q5cee8/Sonic_Lost_World_3DS.rar

[Zazz]

But yea

 

”In Colours and Generations the focus was a side-scrolling game. If you look at Lost World, the main concept is a cylindrical world, so it didn’t make sense to do a side view. The 3DS’s extra power makes it the sort of place 3D can be used really well. Even though it’s power powerful than a DS, it still has its limits. It wasn’t easy to get the same levels, but we kept cutting things back until we could get it so that if you looked at it – in a trailer, say – you couldn’t tell which was which. We tried to get the same feel for Wii U and 3DS.”

 

That info came out today, sounds pretty good actually, has me more confident for future handheld Sonic games. Since iizuka said they wanted them to look identical this should mean the 3DS version gets stages like Casino's, Honeycomb's & that Sweet Mountain like level but in a different perspective. This also means the 3DS version should get 6 zones like the Wii U Version.

[Straw Hat]

That was a pretty awesome interview.

He definitely went in more detail than he has with past games. I'm liking a the choices they made with the game, and it seems like future handheld titles may have a bit more put into them from here on.

And hopefully Nintendo, with this whole partnership deal going on, have Sonic in Smash Bros. again.

Edited September 18, 2013 by Straw Hat

[Zazz]

Err Mediafire isnt really working.. soo

[Crippled Espurr]

Even though it’s power powerful than a DS, it still has its limits. It wasn’t easy to get the same levels, but we kept cutting things back until we could get it so that if you looked at it – in a trailer, say – you couldn’t tell which was which. We tried to get the same feel for Wii U and 3DS.”

 

 

They're certainly doing an amazing job with that.

I mean, A LOT of people thought that the 3DS version was actually the WII U version. Dude, seriously. The visuals, the background, the design, everything! Yeah, the 3DS version has tubular worlds which you can't go undearneath them, but when comments like "Wow, Is that the 3DS version? I almost thought it was the Wii U version!" that doesn't really matters. Most of comments like that reffered to the visuals, but the 3DS version isn't a Rush Clone, has great design, really linear at times but I still think it's truly amazing when you know DIMPS is working on the 3DS version, strong sense of exploration, multiple paths, and looks INSANELY fun to play, just as the Wii U version! 

In my opinion, and I repeat, IN MY OPINION, the option to go undearneath the level doesn't adds that much as some say, nor make it unique (MAD SPACE, Super Mario Galaxy, anyone?) as BLITZ N BURST (God I love that name) said, but again, it's just my opinion =).

 

On the E3 DEMO, one really tiny thing the 3DS version was missing were the Sonic's voices SFX, cuz' the only Sonic's SFXs that were on the 1st demo were the jump, the spindash, the (HARDCORE) parkour, and the fall. But now those effects are on the recent demos so...

 

The only things that are missing are the capsules, which are just on the ending on the level.

[Cyrus]

I saved all the 3DS screens from an article at gpara.com, all in 100% quality with zero artifacts and no watermarks. Should be all of the recent ones. And there's a lot.

 

Have a look.

 

http://www.mediafire.com/download/k9c283u70q5cee8/Sonic_Lost_World_3DS.rar

 

Do you mind posting these images to this thread? (and maybe the general SLW thread)

[StaticMania]

The option to go underneath the tube adds a lot since its very reason for going down there was for alternative path ways, which in turn would offer replayability to the player when playing the game again, the option to explore for multiple paths in a game adds a lot to the level design, especially in a Sonic game) Helps people who get really skilled at the game(Speed-runners mostly)know which paths to take to get the best time or just let people to search around and see parts of the level they never saw before.

[Jolt_TH]

So there wii be some sort of Tutorial on the Wii U version! thas good to hear

wonder why it wasnt included in the demo, perhaps they sarted developing it afer he feedback on controls?

[Cyrus]

Dimps, please make levels that are as expansive and plentiful as the Tropical Coast sage(s) shown in the trailer. They don't even have to rotate, just give us multiple paths and environmental platforming.

[Zazz]

Ahem, ladies & gentleman, I would like to show you that the 3DS version has circular stages & acts!

 

(Ik this is multiplayer but most likely this goes to show that in the main game the same could apply.)

Edited September 18, 2013 by Zazz