Sonic Lost World Announced

[azoo]

Probably partially because journalists won't shut the fuck up about it.

 

Admittedly this is part of the problem, but at the same time it has been rough nevertheless. Things have been teeter-tottering on a scale of good things and bad things, in an attempt to shake off what they dipped into for a little while, notably 2004-2007, while finding a balance. And they still aren't done with that teeter-totter so it technically the transition is still shaking.

 

The implications that Sonic has been terrible since his 3D debut and was never a solidly good idea though hurts me, though, but I guess thats the inner fanatic of SA1's concepts talking through me.

[Nepenthe]

The acknowledgement of a period of time that has no direct relevance in regards to the way the games continue to be developed is awkward at the very least because it chafes against the last few games' critical consensus. You don't call a genuinely sober person a druggie just because they were one seven years ago. And this is even more noticeable when articles like the second leave out the improvement. The people who such statements are geared towards- those non-Sonic fans- would potentially leave with the impression that the modern games simply didn't happen.

 

But whatever; I actually didn't notice those parts of the articles so much as I skimmed and saw confirmation that the Wisps will be required for some sections to be navigable. *squints eyes*

[ArtFenix]

It confuses the shit out of me what they actually trying to say. So what is it: if Sonic sucks, then just say that! No need to write some bullshit about his "sucky" past just to justify their opinion. If, however, they want to actually praise the game then why on Earth is that sentense even there in the first place? Wouldn't it be much better to say something like "Sonic games have been really good in recent years and this one is no exception" instead?

Sigh...

[Wraith]

I don't think you guys getting so damn hung up on this every time helps things.

[Cyrus]

. But whatever; I actually didn't notice those parts of the articles so much as I skimmed and saw confirmation that the Wisps will be required for some sections to be navigable. *squints eyes*

Yeah, like in Desert Ruins when you have to activate Crimson Eagle to fly over the giant bottomless pits and sand slides--Oh wait, you have the choice to either use the Eagle or do a chain homing attack on the Buzzbomber chain over the pit.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Auto

[Dizcrybe]

never mind

Edited September 7, 2013 by Dizcrybe

[DarkRula]

Well, that's positive. The previews mentioned controls and physhics, two of the most important things when it comes to speed based games. And both were postive with it. But again, the Colour powers were mentioned as being harder to control, although as I'd guessed, is probably due to the cable restricting comfortable holding position.

 

Again, mention of the curvy path Sonic games have been on. Yes, they started going downhill when they went multi-platform, and upon starting next-gen took a considerate fall, but mentioning it when the series has been rising up the scale on a game that does well?

And I thought me praising 06's story from naivete was bad.

[Soniman]

But whatever; I actually didn't notice those parts of the articles so much as I skimmed and saw confirmation that the Wisps will be required for some sections to be navigable. *squints eyes*

 

Uhh yeah? Of course they would be required for some parts of the level, even if those parts are optional in and of themselves.

[Milo]

Wow... Two statements beginning with same "Sonic is on hard times" spiel.... I didn't think it was possible.

Time for a drinking game.

 

Don't. You'd succumb to alcohol poisoning.

[Diogenes]

Probably partially because journalists won't shut the fuck up about it.

Chicken and egg.

[Komodin]

But whatever; I actually didn't notice those parts of the articles so much as I skimmed and saw confirmation that the Wisps will be required for some sections to be navigable. *squints eyes*

 

... And what would be the problem here? As long as they're optional most of the time and (more important) their use is good, I see no reason to complain about them.

[Nepenthe]

Yeah, like in Desert Ruins when you have to activate Crimson Eagle to fly over the giant bottomless pits and sand slides--Oh wait, you have the choice to either use the Eagle or do a chain homing attack on the Buzzbomber chain over the pit.

 

I wouldn't take one example and extrapolate it across the entire game. As I've argued before, such a fundamental and marketable part of the main adventure mode is most likely not going to be perfectly 100% optional because that's a waste of resources from a developmental point of view to even get it all to work. Same with hubs, same with guns, same with genre roulette. If you're going to put something as large as a power-up system in the main part of your game and make it so that it has no mandatory impact on the player, you are literally wasting money and time and manpower that could be spent on things that actually need it. Frankly, the burden of proof is on us once we get our hands on the game to attempt to make a perfectly legitimate run through without using a single Wisp.

... And what would be the problem here? As long as they're optional most of the time and (more important) their use is good, I see no reason to complain about them.

 

I don't care for them like everyone else does because I think they're boring to use in their current state, which isn't mitigated by the fact that I may not have to use them most of the time. That's why I complain about them.

[Scar]

If the press hammering on about the dark past of the franchise ensures that SEGA never repeats those mistakes, then I don't really care that much. The last thing we need from Sonic Team, is complacency.

[Nepenthe]

If the press hammering on about the dark past of the franchise ensures that SEGA never repeats those mistakes, then I don't really care that much. The last thing we need from Sonic Team, is complacency.

 

Do you think every single person on that developmental team is completely incapable of deducing by themselves that releasing an aesthetically and technically broken game is a bad idea? How much faith do we lack in them?

[Cyrus]

True, we have yet to judge if Wisps will be only mostly optional or mostly forced, but I wouldn't see the problem if players were obligated to use the 10 second power up, other than interrupting the awesome BGM.

[Blitz 'n Burst]

I wouldn't take one example and extrapolate it across the entire game. As I've argued before, such a fundamental and marketable part of the main adventure mode is most likely not going to be perfectly 100% optional because that's a waste of resources from a developmental point of view to even get it all to work. Same with hubs, same with guns, same with genre roulette. If you're going to put something as large as a power-up system in the main part of your game and make it so that it has no mandatory impact on the player, you are literally wasting money and time and manpower that could be spent on things that actually need it. Frankly, the burden of proof is on us once we get our hands on the game to attempt to make a perfectly legitimate run through without using a single Wisp.

Um, I would have thought optional power-ups that don't actually force you to use them was a good thing. I don't see anybody complaining about the fact that you don't need to use the fire flower to complete Super Mario Bros, so why is it a problem here? The way Colours shoved the Wisps down your throat was easily its biggest problem, not helped by the fact that most of them were really shitty and broke the pace horribly. Why are you complaining that the wisps are treated as power-ups in this game instead of a forced gimmick that dragged the entire game down?

[Cyrus]

Do you think every single person on that developmental team is completely incapable of deducing by themselves that releasing an aesthetically and technically broken game is a bad idea? How much faith do we lack in them?

Infinite amounts.

[Wraith]

Considering a lot of people seriously question and sometimes outright disregard pretty much everything they say....even if they say it multiple times....

Edited September 7, 2013 by Plasm Wraith

[Diogenes]

How much faith do we lack in them?

Do you really want me to answer that question?

[Milo]

Do you think every single person on that developmental team is completely incapable of deducing by themselves that releasing an aesthetically and technically broken game is a bad idea? How much faith do we lack in them?

 

Depending on the fans, it ranges from "chronic pessimism" (0%) to "blind fanboyism" (100%).

[Blitz 'n Burst]

The new Sonic Cycle:

 

1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

2. More information is revealed. Fans are excited and wonder if this could really be the game to revive Sonic.

3. Game is released. Fans love it declare that Sonic is finally back.

 

 

4/1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

Edited September 7, 2013 by Blitz 'n Burst

[ArtFenix]

The new Sonic Cycle:

 

1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

2. More information is revealed. Fans are excited and wonder if this could really be the game to revive Sonic.

3. Game is released. Fans love it declare that Sonic is finally back.

 

 

4/1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

Nah, it's pretty much the same as it was before except now without playable friends.

 

Also from what I've seen so far I'm more and more convinced that they are not optional at all....and most of them are not even fun to use.

Edited September 7, 2013 by ArtFenix

[Vertekins]

I view the Wisp forms with a certain degree of cautiousness because of the way they were utilized in Colours i.e To facilitate basic puzzles and blocky level design and because they were nowhere near as clever as they are made out to be and because of my concern that they'll shunt the Parkour and multifaceted level layout sideways by being pushed to the forefront and forcing you to use them because the level design revolve around them, essentially making Lost World "Sonic Colours 2"

 

I only view them with cautiousness, not view them as being inherently bad because on occasion, Colours did use them cleverly yet they still weren't utilized all that brilliantly. If Sonic Team incorporates Wisp forms intelligently in a fun manner without them taking absolute prominence then I'm absolutely fine with them.

[Nepenthe]

True, we have yet to judge if Wisps will be only mostly optional or mostly forced, but I wouldn't see the problem if players were obligated to use the 10 second power up, other than interrupting the awesome BGM.

 

They're a really cool idea hampered by the most basic of implementations; same was with Heroes' team mechanic. In fact, it kind of annoys me people think they're absolutely fine as is and can essentially be exploited like this forever. I would really like to be able to use the Wisps in a larger variety of situations that make the most use of their unique abilities and properties, and ideally I would like to be able to do so without too much environmental telegraphing that takes away the puzzle element and subsequent brain power involved. The joy of having a power and thinking about how to best use it and discovering different effects they have on the environment a la Kameo is completely taken away when they are designed in such a linear fashion. As it is, they're just repetitive, simple, and a little thoughtless, and most of them aren't even all that actively fun anyway, either because they're extremely automated (Rocket and Cube) or just control awfully (fucking Frenzy arhjdgfsdfuas!) Yellow Drill is my only baby, but the rest of them? I dun curr. If nothing else, I feel they're getting in the way of all the Parkour. xP

 

 

Um, I would have thought optional power-ups that don't actually force you to use them was a good thing. I don't see anybody complaining about the fact that you don't need to use the fire flower to complete Super Mario Bros, so why is it a problem here? The way Colours shoved the Wisps down your throat was easily its biggest problem, not helped by the fact that most of them were really shitty and broke the pace horribly. Why are you complaining that the wisps are treated as power-ups in this game instead of a forced gimmick that dragged the entire game down?

 

I don't believe forcing a mechanic on a player is good or bad. If the mechanic is amazing to use, or is fundamental to the way the game works, why not force players to use it? Game design is limitless. The Wisps being mandatory in some instances is not an inherently bad idea. However, I generally bitch about the Wisps not being entirely optional anyway because 1) Everyone used to use this falsity as to why they were hot shit ("You don't have to play as them guys! They're not mandatory to the experience! Total freedom ftw!") and I like constantly reminded people this isn't the case. 2) I don't even think they're good enough to be a mandatory mechanic in the first place.

[Dizcrybe]

The new Sonic Cycle:

 

1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

2. More information is revealed. Fans are excited and wonder if this could really be the game to revive Sonic.

3. Game is released. Fans love it declare that Sonic is finally back.

 

 

4/1. New Sonic game is announced. Fans are doubtful because SEGA has let them down in the past.

 

3.5. A year passes and fans don't like the game as much as when they first bought and played it.