Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

But the game never explains the time travel junk so, how can you prove this?

Actually, bare-bones as Generations' story was, the plot actually does come full circle and explain that the Time Eater is capable of manipulating time and space, tearing up the time-stream and whatnot.

 

"Why is Crisis City in my Sonic Gens?"

 

Simple, the Time Eater brought it back from the fabrics of time.

[DBZHedgy]

The plot of Sonic Generations is about Sonic going through time since his youth to nowadays. 06 being there is a part of that. Easter egg it is not. As for the whole Blaze stuff, that was him cleaning up Nakamura's garbage writing. Iizuka had nothing to do with 06 and probably decided to say that to try to minimize its damage. As for them referencing Secret Rings, Well I guess the new writers just did that without thinking, after all they know nothing about Sonic continuity.

Yes, he goes through time, but once again, the way the time eater works is never explained at all, except for the obvious, controlling of time.

 

It's an easter egg because it isn't canon. And I still the game still doesn't explain it's time control.

 

 

Hum....no. Dude, have you even played it? Classic Eggman looks at Modern Eggman saying "Will I really get that crazy?", the game clearly implies that's what the writers are going for. In fact where did you get the idea that they're the same age?

I believe there are a multitude of images like this in the Mega Collection.

An in-game profile from Sonic jam confirms this.

Um, Classic Sonic isn't the same age as Modern. I'm sure they mention stuff being years ago and also, it takes place on Sonic's birthday so he'll be older by default.

True, but what I meant to say was, their age difference wasn't as steep as meant to believe.

Think about it from 2006-era Sonic Team's perspective: if the game with realistic environments and a realistic Eggman with basketball mascots falling in love with realistic humans was successful, they'd think that everyone agreed with the new art direction, and then stick with it.

 

Again, 2006-era Sonic Team, before they got a kick up their backside that forced them to actually wake up and try harder with their games.

 

Bull. Utter. Bull.

 

Explain Sonic's face and nervous laughter when Elise compliments him at one point.

 

Explain the Trial of Love.

 

Explain how Elise is there at all when by all means she shouldn't be if Sonic doesn't love her.

 

Pretty "one sided" relationship there, huh?

Sega listens to their fans. This is the whole reason this game exists, as well as Shadow. That game was pure fan-service in almost every right. I mean, Sonic Unleashed did relatively well, and they listened to the fans about taking out the werehog, so why wouldn't they listen to them about Eggman's design change?

 

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The fact that he outright tells Elise that he's going to leave once all of it is over. 

 

The Trail of Love also featured Amy, a character Sonic has shown a slight affection for in Sonic Unleashed. In every game prior, the games make it very evident that Sonic does not like Amy, yet she's there.

 

The fact that he practically forces Elise to blow out the flame to save the world.

 

and the fact that he DOESN'T interact with her after she erases the events of the game.

[pppp]

DBZHedgy, you're trying way too hard to put logic into this series continuity. This is a series about a blue hedgehog that talks and has super speed sneakers. Fine, he's always been 16, maybe his body change started and ended over the course of 10 months so he's still 16? It's freaking Sonic, the logic of how this works doesn't matter, all you need to know is that the Time Eater can manipulate the space-time continuum at its will and that Modern characters are older versions of Classic characters.

 

If you want the plots of Sonic to make perfect sense, then there's a great reason why 06's story is shit, as it makes way less sense than any other Sonic game and the characters are either lifeless or complete morons for the sake of forcing the stupid storyline down the player's throat.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Let's not forget the elephant in the room fact, that Sonic Generations takes place on Sonic's birthday, thus aging him. No matter how you do or conceive the math DBZ, Modern Sonic is still notably and factually older than Classic Sonic.

[Enesephus]

Yes, he goes through time, but once again, the way the time eater works is never explained at all, except for the obvious, controlling of time.

 

It's an easter egg because it isn't canon. And I still the game still doesn't explain it's time control.

Sonic 06 is canon, even if the events of the game were erased, and so is the level they put in Generations. It is not an easter egg, and I'm not sure you're really clear on what an easter egg is. What exactly is it you're trying to convince us of?

[DBZHedgy]

DBZHedgy, you're trying way too hard to put logic into this series continuity. This is a series about a blue hedgehog that talks and has super speed sneakers. Fine, he's always been 16, maybe his body change started and ended over the course of 10 months so he's still 16? It's freaking Sonic, the logic of how this works doesn't matter, all you need to know is that the Time Eater can manipulate the space-time continuum at its will and that Modern characters are older versions of Classic characters.

 

If you want the plots of Sonic to make perfect sense, then there's a great reason why 06's story is shit, as it makes way less sense than any other Sonic game and the characters are either lifeless or complete morons for the sake of forcing the stupid storyline down the player's throat.

What are you talking about? You just said that the games made the models line up so they reflect that the cast have aged, when in actuality, they haven't aged as much as portrayed.

So why is it that you were literally asking for logic if it doesn't matter? I'm confused...

 

I didn't say that. There's no way that's possible because of the constant contradictions in many of the games excluding Sonic 06.

No the characters are not lifeless husks, or complete morons either. And you make it seem like this is the first story to actually force the story down your throat.

 

Let's not forget the elephant in the room fact, that Sonic Generations takes place on Sonic's birthday, thus aging him. No matter how you do or conceive the math DBZ, Modern Sonic is still notably and factually older than Classic Sonic.

Refer to this:

 

 

True, but what I meant to say was, their age difference wasn't as steep as meant to believe.

 

 

Sonic 06 is canon, even if the events of the game were erased, and so is the level they put in Generations. It is not an easter egg, and I'm not sure you're really clear on what an easter egg is. What exactly is it you're trying to convince us of?

I didn't mean Easter Egg in the literal sense. Just for a lack of a better word.

The stage is only there because it was a major part in Sonic's history. No other real reason.

 

And even if it is. Once again, that's Sonic Generations Fault for implementing a story that wasn't supposed to exist.

What exactly is it you're trying to convince us of?

To disprove this:

 

According to that game 06 is a part of the main canon, since its included with all the other main entries of the series.

[pppp]

What are you talking about? You just said that the games made the models line up so they reflect that the cast have aged, when in actuality, they haven't aged as much as portrayed.

So why is it that you were literally asking for logic if it doesn't matter? I'm confused...

 

I'm saying that you should just examine what's actually plot relevant instead of using incredibly minor details like Classic Sonic being 16 to try to defend 06's plot.

 

You should go with the logic of the universe, and by that I mean, a universe where real life logic doesn't apply unless it's something to do with an important plot element or a character's motivation.

 

The way the Time Eater's powers work is irrelevant to the plot. By that logic the Toy Story Trilogy is entirely stupid: Why are the toys alive? How exactly do toys without lungs breathe or talk without vocal cords? The reason you don't question stuff like this is cause the very concept of Toy Story is "What if toys were alive and talked?".

 

Suspension of desbelief is the key dude. The writers established that Modern Sonic is older. How can that be you ask? The answer is: Who cares?

 

Examine the logic of the plot, not the way the Sonic Universe works, as there's clearly no logic to how it works.

[DBZHedgy]

I'm saying that you should just examine what's actually plot relevant instead of using incredibly minor details like Classic Sonic being 16 to try to defend 06's plot.

 

You should go with the logic of the universe, and by that I mean, a universe where real life logic doesn't apply unless it's something to do with an important plot element or a character's motivation.

 

The way the Time Eater's powers work is irrelevant to the plot. By that logic the Toy Story Trilogy is entirely stupid: Why are the toys alive? How exactly do toys without lungs breathe or talk without vocal cords? The reason you don't question stuff like this is cause the very concept of Toy Story is "What if toys were alive and talked?".

 

Suspension of desbelief is the key dude. The writers established that Modern Sonic is older. How can that be you ask? The answer is: Who cares?

 

Examine the logic of the plot, not the way the Sonic Universe works, as there's clearly no logic to how it works.

You were the one to bring that up, and I countered it.

 

So why is it that everyone else can prick and prod Sonic 06 for inconsistencies as miniscule as these? 

 

The Time eater's power is very relevant to the plot and since Sonic 06 is in it, it has very much to do with what is canon and what isn't.

 

I'm quite sure the only reason people aren't disagreeing with you is because you don't like Sonic 06, and are trying to convey that to me. But several people who I'm conversing with right now have gone on to say that all of these left out details are very important to the plot of any game.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Refer to this:

 

 

Sorry, but I don't believe explicitly saying that they're the same age is really something that can be taken that way.

 

Either way, how would this questionable stance even aid 06's standing?

[pppp]

You were the one to bring that up, and I countered it.

 

So why is it that everyone else can prick and prod Sonic 06 for inconsistencies as miniscule as these? 

 

The Time eater's power is very relevant to the plot and since Sonic 06 is in it, it has very much to do with what is canon and what isn't.

 

I'm quite sure the only reason people aren't disagreeing with you is because you don't like Sonic 06, and are trying to convey that to me. But several people who I'm conversing with right now have gone on to say that all of these left out details are very important to the plot of any game.

 

You are clearly not giving any effort to listen to my words, I just explained the difference between suspension of desbelief stuff and actual plot problems.

 

The reason we hate 06's plot is because its plot points are either forced or don't add up.

 

Let me break it down when it comes to 06:

 

-Mephiles can time travel at will, ok I'll roll with it, why not, it's a mystical being. If you question how the Time Eater's powers work then you have to question his too. Again why Mephiles can time travel isn't an issue, the suspension of desbelief that allows me to believe there are fast hedgehogs and magic jewels takes care of that.

 

-Now what really is stupid is Mephiles not taking advantage of his time tavel powers in any effective way. He brings Silver to the present even though he could just do the job of killing Sonic himself. He is acting incredibly dumb and going through this unnecessary stuff because apparently the writers couldn't find a better way to put Silver into the story.

 

To sum up: The abilities of characters or their age are not important, how they use their abilities is what matters.

[DBZHedgy]

Sorry, but I don't believe explicitly saying that they're the same age is really something that can be taken that way.

 

Either way, how would this questionable stance even aid 06's standing?

No matter what way you put it, Sonic was 16 back then, and 16 (or 17, the game doesn't make that clear) now. So the time periods aren't as steep as thought.

 

This doesn't even matter to be honest... I  was just making sure that Al Gore knew that Sonic was 16 back in the classics because he said otherwise.

 

But before that, we were arguing the canonical stance of 06 since it was retconned in it's own game and placed into Generations.

[FireBird75]

You were the one to bring that up, and I countered it.

 

So why is it that everyone else can prick and prod Sonic 06 for inconsistencies as miniscule as these? 

 

The Time eater's power is very relevant to the plot and since Sonic 06 is in it, it has very much to do with what is canon and what isn't.

 

I'm quite sure the only reason people aren't disagreeing with you is because you don't like Sonic 06, and are trying to convey that to me. But several people who I'm conversing with right now have gone on to say that all of these left out details are very important to the plot of any game.

Do you believe that you succeeded?

 

Simple. They can.  Does it bother you?  If so, then why?

 

The Time Eater's powers are important to the story, That everybody understands.  Why and how the Time Eater was able to retrieve Crisis City is anyone's guess since the game doesn't explain it all.  It's all subject to theory and headcanon with that one.

 

What does that have to do with anything?  Gore was talking about logic in Sonic canon.  What are you talking about?

 

Sorry, but I don't believe explicitly saying that they're the same age is really something that can be taken that way.

 

Either way, how would this questionable stance even aid 06's standing?

I don't really consider Sonic's profile in Sonic Jam canon either.  I always thought that Classic was a preteen while Modern is of course a teenager.

 

And I don't what this has to do with Sonic 06 either.

[DBZHedgy]

-Mephiles can time travel at will, ok I'll roll with it, why not, it's a mystical being. If you question how the Time Eater's powers work then you have to question his too. Again why Mephiles can time travel isn't an issue, the suspension of desbelief that allows me to believe there are fast hedgehogs and magic jewels takes care of that.

"If you question how the Time Eater's powers work then you have to question his too"

That's what everyone has been doing since I've gotten here...

Hence why I said what I said prior.

 

 

-Now what really is stupid is Mephiles not taking advantage of his time tavel powers in any effective way. He brings Silver to the present even though he could just do the job of killing Sonic himself. He is acting incredibly dumb and going through this unnecessary stuff because apparently the writers couldn't find a better way to put Silver into the story.

We already addressed this like... a while back... but I'll go ahead with it again.

 

The reason Mephiles goes through Silver to get his plans done was for convenience sake. When he was released from the scepter he, Shadow, and Rouge were warped to the future, then Mephiles took advantage of Silver's insecurity to kill or at least try to kill Sonic while he went to see if Shadow would join him, and after Shadow refused he went to get the chaos emeralds to fuse with Iblis. 

And Mephiles can only be so smart since he is an artificial being who was created by mankind, an already flawed species.

 

And unlike the Time Eater, Mephiles has a reason for his powers to be able to time travel. When he was released, he took Shadow's power from his Shadow and was able to conceive his own form of chaos control because of Shadow's power.

Do you believe that you succeeded?

 

Simple. They can.  Does it bother you?  If so, then why?

 

The Time Eater's powers are important to the story, That everybody understands.  Why and how the Time Eater was able to retrieve Crisis City is anyone's guess since the game doesn't explain it all.  It's all subject to theory and headcanon with that one.

 

What does that have to do with anything?  Gore was talking about logic in Sonic canon.  What are you talking about?

 

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I don't really consider Sonic's profile in Sonic Jam canon either.  I always thought that Classic was a preteen while Modern is of course a teenager.

 

And I don't what this has to do with Sonic 06 either.

No, I really don't since no matter what I say no one ever listens...

 

No, I was just pointing out how hypocritical it was...

 

It has a lot to do with everything actually, since the game focuses on many of Sonic's previous adventures. (This was laid out at least 3 times in the last 2 pages...) And since the Canonicality of Sonic 06 is in question, this is the go-to source.

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So an actual Bio from an official game is less correct than what you simply thought?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

No matter what way you put it, Sonic was 16 back then,

 

Oh I can think of quite a few things that might beg to differ.

 

 

The reason Mephiles goes through Silver to get his plans done was for convenience sake. When he was released from the scepter he, Shadow, and Rouge were warped to the future, then Mephiles took advantage of Silver's insecurity to kill or at least try to kill Sonic while he went to see if Shadow would join him, and after Shadow refused he went to get the chaos emeralds to fuse with Iblis. 

Now why doesn't 'ol Mephy actually do the smart thing and actually directly execute his plans via his abilities rather than try rube-goldberg wing it?

 Stuff like that is that is how his plans pretty much get foiled and delayed up until the Last Story, when he actually grows a brain and does it.

[FireBird75]

 

No, I really don't since no matter what I say no one ever listens...

 

No, I was just pointing out how hypocritical it was...

 

It has a lot to do with everything actually, since the game focuses on many of Sonic's previous adventures. (This was laid out at least 3 times in the last 2 pages...) And since the Canonicality of Sonic 06 is in question, this is the go-to source.

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So an actual Bio from an official game is less correct than what you simply thought?

Ok.  That's resolved.

 

It's only hypocritical if people criticize 06 for a certain flaw (of certain degree) while not criticizing the same flaw (of the same degree) in another game.  If it sucks then, it sucks now.

 

Ok, that's fine.  

Sonic 06's canon to series is irrelevant to me since Classic and Modern fix everything at the end of Generations.  ( Does this mean 06 has been erased twice now?)

 

Quite possibly, since Sonic Jam came out before Sonic Adventure (where Sonic was established at 15 years of age).  Since Sonic cannot age backwards, it's easier just throw Sonic Jam out of canon.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Either way, Sonic is STILL faster. No really, I'll show a comparison video once I get the chance.

No such proof has been given still. I rest my case on the fact of Omega being, standard speedwise, faster than Sonic that was brought into question there.

Sonic Jam isn't really so much a canon game as the likes of Adventure and Heroes; it's really a compilation of games.

[StaticMania]

Its a Compilation with added information of the series...if its not accurate that's their fault.

[DBZHedgy]

 

Oh I can think of quite a few things that might beg to differ.

Now why doesn't 'ol Mephy actually do the smart thing and actually directly execute his plans via his abilities rather than try rube-goldberg wing it?

 Stuff like that is that is how his plans pretty much get foiled and delayed up until the Last Story, when he actually grows a brain and does it.

So, why is it that the first game is wrong, and the latter game is right?

 

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Because of convenience sake. Do you think he could predict the future? He even said very blatantly "I never thought I would be resurrected under your shade".

 

Ok.  That's resolved.

 

It's only hypocritical if people criticize 06 for a certain flaw (of certain degree) while not criticizing the same flaw (of the same degree) in another game.  If it sucks then, it sucks now.

 

Ok, that's fine.  

Sonic 06's canon to series is irrelevant to me since Classic and Modern fix everything at the end of Generations.  ( Does this mean 06 has been erased twice now?)

 

Quite possibly, since Sonic Jam came out before Sonic Adventure (where Sonic was established at 15 years of age).  Since Sonic cannot age backwards, it's easier just throw Sonic Jam out of canon.

Exactly, he was being hypocritical, like I said.

 

Not really, because it didn't erase time... otherwise Sonic wouldn't exist. It just went back wherever the Time Eater pulled it from.

 

Why is it that Jam is the incorrect source? Why is it that Sonic Adventure / Heroes gets the higher priority of this? Last time I checked, things that were established previously should be adapted into later games. And the GAME isn't what was Canon, it was the information provided in the game.

 

 

No such proof has been given still. I rest my case on the fact of Omega being, standard speedwise, faster than Sonic that was brought into question there.

Sonic Jam isn't really so much a canon game as the likes of Adventure and Heroes; it's really a compilation of games.

I already said that this was true... but this isn't the only instance where this happens.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

So, why is it that the first game is wrong, and the latter game is right?

 

I never once said that. What I did was illuminate the fact debunking your stance that "no matter how you look at it" Sonic was 16 back then, based on the records of a compilation of games, not even for a particular game to begin with.

 

With the sort of reasoning you were sporting, for all you know, the Sonic Jam record of Sonic being 16 could be for a future Sonic, not even the one present for the classic games.

 

And yeah, by the time of Avdenture 1, quite a bit of classic's lore implemented concepts kind of got retconned to boot.

 

What this has to do with 06 though, I do not know.

[Enesephus]

So, why is it that the first game is wrong, and the latter game is right?

I believe that in the manuals for the early games, Sonic's world was called Mobius rather than Earth, Eggman was Robotnik (although later on both became his name) and Sonic's speed came from his sneakers. It wasn't until later that the games really started to have continuity, and the stuff that was "established" earlier kinda went out the window, including Sonic's age.

[Komodin]

I believe there are a multitude of images like this in the Mega Collection.

An in-game profile from Sonic jam confirms this.

 

This was originally the case, yeah. By Sonic Generations' time, however, this detail was retconned so that "Classic" Sonic is actually a younger Sonic. So, yeah, "Classic" Sonic and "Modern" Sonic aren't the same age anymore, so much as they're now essentially "Young" Sonic and "Adult (Teenager)" Sonic, respectively.

[StaticMania]

Most of the actual Sonic Jam ... Sonic trivia and info did not really get altered through Westernization...only the important Story related stuff.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I just chalk the age and name thing as being "Early Installment Weirdness" if anything.

[DBZHedgy]

I never once said that. What I did was illuminate the fact debunking your stance that "no matter how you look at it" Sonic was 16 back then, based on the records of a compilation of games, not even for a particular game to begin with.

 

With the sort of reasoning you were sporting, for all you know, the Sonic Jam record of Sonic being 16 could be for a future Sonic, not even the one present for the classic games.

 

And yeah, by the time of Avdenture 1, quite a bit of classic's lore implemented concepts kind of got retconned to boot.

 

What this has to do with 06 though, I do not know.

Did I say that you said that? 

Whether or not that is the case, Sonic Jam's Bio came first. Sonic Adventure should've kept true to previously established information. Something Sonic 06 is constantly bickered about for. 

 

Are you implying that the Sonic in the picture I posted was of a prototype Sonic Adventure Sonic?

 

So your saying that Sonic Adventure retconned information for no reason?

 

It has nothing to do with 06, but this does:

Because of convenience sake. Do you think he could predict the future? He even said very blatantly "I never thought I would be resurrected under your shade".

 

 

I believe that in the manuals for the early games, Sonic's world was called Mobius rather than Earth, Eggman was Robotnik (although later on both became his name) and Sonic's speed came from his sneakers. It wasn't until later that the games really started to have continuity, and the stuff that was "established" earlier kinda went out the window, including Sonic's age.

"and the stuff that was 'established' earlier kinda went out the window"

Sounds awfully familiar...

 

This was originally the case, yeah. By Sonic Generations' time, however, this detail was retconned so that "Classic" Sonic is actually a younger Sonic. So, yeah, "Classic" Sonic and "Modern" Sonic aren't the same age anymore, so much as they're now essentially "Young" Sonic and "Adult (Teenager)" Sonic, respectively.

I can totally understand where your coming from, but this is only due to deductive reasoning. The games never said what Sonic's age was in the games, and the only thing we have to go from it is actual information provided from when he was in Sonic 1 and/or the rest of the classics. It's all just a different art style.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Did I say that you said that? 

Whether or not that is the case, Sonic Jam's Bio came first. Sonic Adventure should've kept true to previously established information. Something Sonic 06 is constantly bickered about for. 

 

Are you implying that the Sonic in the picture I posted was of a prototype Sonic Adventure Sonic?

 

So your saying that Sonic Adventure retconned information for no reason?

SO this has just been another attempt to defend 06 by trying to pull other games through the mud. *SIgh*

 

If you're curious, my answer to all these questions is "No".