Official Sonic 2006 topic

[DBZHedgy]

SO this has just been another attempt to defend 06 by trying to pull other games through the mud. *SIgh*

You're avoiding the questions,

but as you've said, that has nothing to do with 06.

[Jolt_TH]

Actually the stuff about Möbius and Robotnik/Eggman in the old manuals was a lack of communication from SEGA Japan and SEGA America, so no, nothing was "thrown out" SoA just thought there backstory would be more interesting. In Adventure the Eggman/Robotnik issue got resolved anyway.

I think the problem with jam is that it isn't an actual game, it's a compilation with some extras thrown in, not to mention that, as far as I know, that is the only time before Adventure and more modern games that actually has Sonic's age in it, it wasn't in the manual either, some place a lot of people will look. I bet it is stated as the "new" age on a lot of the official websites for the newer games too. Not to mention that changing a detail as trivial as his age, after one time, is vastly different from changing canon that has been established for a while.

Also I may just be being stupid here. But why would Mephelies try to convert Shadow over to his side anyway? It has no relevance to his plans at all, and if he had just left him alone then he would have arguably been able to collect the emeralds without much hinderance.

It just seems stupid he would send someone else to do a task SOOO vital to his plan while he goes off and tries to "recruit" someone, someone who will just get erased from time anyway when he consumes it all

[Salamander]

Wait, people actually take the characters' ages seriously?  Why?  They're arbitrary nonsense.  In fact, I would be very interested to learn when the last time was that character ages were given in material directly from Sonic Team.  I'd guess that it was quite a few years ago.

[Straw Hat]

You're avoiding the questions,

but as you've said, that has nothing to do with 06.

Nearly every "argument" as of late you've presented barely even has anything to do with 06. What's the point of answering pointless questions, that are frankly, extremely annoying?

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

And I recall explicitly stating that my answer to those questions was "No", anyway, so I'd have to call bullshit on me supposedly dodging them as well.

[Blue Blood]

Wait, people actually take the characters' ages seriously?  Why?  They're arbitrary nonsense.  In fact, I would be very interested to learn when the last time was that character ages were given in material directly from Sonic Team.  I'd guess that it was quite a few years ago.

Black Knight gives the ages right in the gallery. And that was only five years ago. They remain unchanged from Channel and the Heroes manual. Generations specifically avoids mentioning Sonics age at all at his birthday. He's still 16 as far as we know.

I still agree with you that they're utterly arbitrary though. They make no sense at all, nor do they make an ounce of difference. In fact, this whole discussion has become arbitrary. Why are ages the subject of discussion again?

[FireBird75]

Wait, people actually take the characters' ages seriously?  Why?  They're arbitrary nonsense.  In fact, I would be very interested to learn when the last time was that character ages were given in material directly from Sonic Team.  I'd guess that it was quite a few years ago.

The last time that happened is with Sonic Heroes' manual.  Oddly enough, it lists Rouge's age being 17.  She's supposed to be 18. Oops!

[DBZHedgy]

Also I may just be being stupid here. But why would Mephelies try to convert Shadow over to his side anyway? It has no relevance to his plans at all, and if he had just left him alone then he would have arguably been able to collect the emeralds without much hinderance.
It just seems stupid he would send someone else to do a task SOOO vital to his plan while he goes off and tries to "recruit" someone, someone who will just get erased from time anyway when he consumes it all

It would make sense if he were going to betray him as soon as they worked together after Mephiles had found the location of the emeralds. 

Also, Mephiles tries to coax shadow in the future where Shadow stays and voids his return ticket, where Omega comes to help. After Shadow refused, Mephiles had been absent for a while giving him ample time to find the locations of or find the emeralds themselves in the spare time.

 

 

And I recall explicitly stating that my answer to those questions was "No", anyway, so I'd have to call bullshit on me supposedly dodging them as well.

You said:

 

Jovahexeon the AceAttorney, on 26 Apr 2014 - 12:36 AM, said:

 for all you know, the Sonic Jam record of Sonic being 16 could be for a future Sonic, not even the one present for the classic games.

 

And for all I know, that picture was clearly of Classic Sonic, not any rendition of a future Sonic.

 

Also, you constantly proclaim how much this doesn't have anything to do with 06, yet you completely ignored my statement in response to your statement about Mephiles being stupid. 

 

 

Wait, people actually take the characters' ages seriously?  Why?  They're arbitrary nonsense.  In fact, I would be very interested to learn when the last time was that character ages were given in material directly from Sonic Team.  I'd guess that it was quite a few years ago.

It was only to show how wacked the entire fundamentality of Sonic Generations and it's Time Travel craziness was. Which detaches Sonic 06 from Canon, which was my entire point. (I said that like 3 times...)

 

 

Nearly every "argument" as of late you've presented barely even has anything to do with 06. What's the point of answering pointless questions, that are frankly, extremely annoying?

So wait... I said this?:

 

Not to mention, Generations established that the modern designs of the characters are just the same characters older. Different designs have nothing to do with this.

Because this is what started the Age crud to begin with. Everyone is always so quick to point fingers... (And at the wrong person too!)

You know it doesn't take too long to go back and read a few pages over again... >_>

[Straw Hat]

So wait... I said this?:

Because this is what started the Age crud to begin with. Everyone is always so quick to point fingers... (And at the wrong person too!)

You know it doesn't take too long to go back and read a few pages over again... >_>

Uh.... No...? But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. The questions are what I was referring to. Why do any of those help your argument of 06 not being shit? I don't see any...

It would make sense if he were going to betray him as soon as they worked together after Mephiles had found the location of the emeralds.

Also, Mephiles tries to coax shadow in the future where Shadow stays and voids his return ticket, where Omega comes to help. After Shadow refused, Mephiles had been absent for a while giving him ample time to find the locations of or find the emeralds themselves in the spare time.

But that's the thing, why does he even try to team up with Shadow...? Why does he WANT to? He easily could have completed his entire plan on his own without Shadow there to get in his way. After he is reawakened, he could have immediately started searching for all the Emeralds, if his plan actually even mattered to him at all. Hell, since for some reason the Emeralds act like they did the fusion dance with the Time Stones, he could find one, go back in time, and make the emerald hunt even easier. Shit like this is why people think Mephiles is an idiotic villain. Hell, if he and Sonic actually crossed paths earlier in the story, there would be more of a reason for Sonic to work with Shadow to save the world.

[DBZHedgy]

Uh.... No...? But that has nothing to do with what I was talking about. The questions are what I was referring to. Why do any of those help your argument of 06 not being shit? I don't see any...

 

Nearly every "argument" as of late you've presented barely even has anything to do with 06. What's the point of answering pointless questions, that are frankly, extremely annoying?

Exactly what about the last few arguments that I presented didn't have to do with 06?

The Generations placement has to do with 06.

The Canonicality of it in those games have to do with 06.

And the very nature of how time works in Sonic Generations has to do with 06.

 

But that's the thing, why does he even try to team up with Shadow...? Why does he WANT to? He easily could have completed his entire plan on his own without Shadow there to get in his way. After he is reawakened, he could have immediately started searching for all the Emeralds, if his plan actually even mattered to him at all. Hell, since for some reason the Emeralds act like they did the fusion dance with the Time Stones, he could find one, go back in time, and make the emerald hunt even easier. Shit like this is why people think Mephiles is an idiotic villain. Hell, if he and Sonic actually crossed paths earlier in the story, there would be more of a reason for Sonic to work with Shadow to save the world.

The same reason he would want to help Silver, to betray him as soon as he got what he needed.

 

Not sure if you realized it, but ever since Shadow and Omega went back into the past after Fighting Mephiles, Mephiles was gone for like the entirety of Shadow's story until Shadow found him in the Temple place where the last emeralds were. Ergo, he must have been looking for the emeralds as soon as Shadow rejected him, and pummeled him with Omega.

[StaticMania]

He was gone for the enitrety...?

 

After he escapes Shadow and Omega the 1st time...Shadow spends 2 whole levels looking for a way to seal Mephiles...

 

After "That" Mephiles goes to decieve a lone Omega's limited brain chip...then he gets rapid fire spammed and leaves again...

 

After "(That)" Shadow finds Mephiles kicks his butt again, then Tries and Fails to seal him...

 

After "([That])" Mephiles again tries to convince Shadow that he should turn against humanity...

 

After That his obvious lie obviously fails "again", he tries to surround Shadow who then proceeds to barrel through all of "him"

 

The time between Shadow losing Mephiles' trail and finding him again is Not that long...and its not like Mephiles needed to be there to progress the plot, Shadow finding him or Mephiles following wouldn't have done anything...

[pppp]

The same reason he would want to help Silver, to betray him as soon as he got what he needed.

 

You keep giving this excuse, but that would only make sense if doing all these things would help his plan. Getting Silver and Shadow to join him wouldn't in anyway make his plan go by faster or easier, so why even bother doing it? He's just wasting his time(And the player's time for that matter).

[Enesephus]

Maybe Mephiles just gets off on betraying people?

 

Seriously, though, why anyone tries to make sense of this guy's plans is beyond me. They're so convoluted and frankly dumb that it's much easier to just say that Mephiles is a Stupid Evil being with a complexity addiction.

[Straw Hat]

The same reason he would want to help Silver, to betray him as soon as he got what he needed.

Not sure if you realized it, but ever since Shadow and Omega went back into the past after Fighting Mephiles, Mephiles was gone for like the entirety of Shadow's story until Shadow found him in the Temple place where the last emeralds were. Ergo, he must have been looking for the emeralds as soon as Shadow rejected him, and pummeled him with Omega.

You really didn't answer my question...

There is no point of him even screwing around with them. He CAN do Chaos Control after all (Like fucking everyone in this game...). It's not like the game says that he cannot do it. His plan could have been accomplished the moment he found a Chaos Emerald, as I've mentioned. His whole plan is flawed because of his own lack of common sense.

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

 

Also, you constantly proclaim how much this doesn't have anything to do with 06, yet you completely ignored my statement in response to your statement about Mephiles being stupid. 

 

And you know what, no it doesn't have a thing to do with 06 and it's grasping for straws. And your statement has already well been re-buffed so there's no point re-treading cleared territory already.

[DBZHedgy]

He was gone for the enitrety...?

 

After he escapes Shadow and Omega the 1st time...Shadow spends 2 whole levels looking for a way to seal Mephiles...

 

After "That" Mephiles goes to decieve a lone Omega's limited brain chip...then he gets rapid fire spammed and leaves again...

 

After "(That)" Shadow finds Mephiles kicks his butt again, then Tries and Fails to seal him...

 

After "([That])" Mephiles again tries to convince Shadow that he should turn against humanity...

 

After That his obvious lie obviously fails "again", he tries to surround Shadow who then proceeds to barrel through all of "him"

 

The time between Shadow losing Mephiles' trail and finding him again is Not that long...and its not like Mephiles needed to be there to progress the plot, Shadow finding him or Mephiles following wouldn't have done anything...

And when Shadow meets him "(That)" time, it's been several stages since Shadow has seen Mephiles, since they've been teleported to their time. Like I said, he was gone for like the rest of the time, except to bug omega, and after that he leaves... To go do what he has to do. Which is presumably finding the Chaos Emeralds since, he actually looked and collected the two at the end.

 

 

You keep giving this excuse, but that would only make sense if doing all these things would help his plan. Getting Silver and Shadow to join him wouldn't in anyway make his plan go by faster or easier, so why even bother doing it? He's just wasting his time(And the player's time for that matter).

So what your saying is that Shadow looking for the Emeralds and Silver killing Sonic couldn't make his plan easier huh?

 

Maybe Mephiles just gets off on betraying people?

His entire character is built around an overall mean person/being.

It would make sense that betraying/tormenting people would be his cup of tea.

 

 

You really didn't answer my question...

There is no point of him even screwing around with them. He CAN do Chaos Control after all (Like fucking everyone in this game...). It's not like the game says that he cannot do it. His plan could have been accomplished the moment he found a Chaos Emerald, as I've mentioned. His whole plan is flawed because of his own lack of common sense.

This is the order of events Mephiles goes through that is documented within the game:

 

Mephiles is made --> Mephiles and Iblis escape --> Mephiles is sealed by Shadow --> Mephiles is released --> Mephiles sends Shadow and Rouge to the future with himself --> Mephiles enlists Silver to kill Sonic --> Mephiles Lures Shadow (In future) --> Mephiles gets beaten up by Omega and Shadow --> Mephiles teleports back to present time --> Mephiles tells Silver to get to it --> Mephiles gets beaten up by Omega --> Mephiles gets the two chaos emeralds in the temple --> Mephiles Fights Team Dark --> Mephiles Kills Sonic to make elise cry --> Mephiles fuses with Iblis --> Becomes Solaris. The End.

 

When Mephiles teleports back to the present time after telling silver to hurry up, and before Omega fights him in Wave Ocean, there was plenty of time for Mephiles to do other things especially since he has the power to travel through time.

 

And your statement has already well been re-buffed so there's no point re-treading cleared territory already.

That post was made before there was a response to it.

[100Rings]

Love 06 for what it tried to do...it needs some serious fixing though but the potential is indeed there....I would love a remastered edition personally

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I would love Sonic 06 if it were good, sure, but by this point I think a remastered edition is out of the question. I think it'd be best to leave the game behind until someone finds a way to fix it, and that doesn't seem to be anytime soon.

[DBZHedgy]

I would love Sonic 06 if it were good, sure, but by this point I think a remastered edition is out of the question. I think it'd be best to leave the game behind until someone finds a way to fix it, and that doesn't seem to be anytime soon.

It just seems like the overall concept was too hard to handle, especially for the weaker half of the Dev team. I find it admirable that the game doesn't immediately crash upon Start-up. Or instead wigging out graphically, like Goat Simulator or Something. 

[100Rings]

I would love Sonic 06 if it were good, sure, but by this point I think a remastered edition is out of the question. I think it'd be best to leave the game behind until someone finds a way to fix it, and that doesn't seem to be anytime soon.

Perhaps it is too soon to deal with it....but after 8 years ant normal fandom would have put this well behind them. (FF:VIII did it after all...)

On the other hand remastering it could help alot of people to forgive sega...a lot of people feel like sega just made that game and just lol''d and moved on.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

I think certain elements and ideas in the game could benefit the series. I like Silver's character, the level design (at least for Sonic) is actually okay, and I'd rather have these overpresice controls than the ice physics of Heroes and Shadow (although I do like Heroes alright). Some of the level ideas themselves are pretty unique, too. We haven't really gotten many train levels, castle levels, or ocean base levels (the only other I could remember is Sonic Advance 3) before, so I think those are okay.

[100Rings]

I think certain elements and ideas in the game could benefit the series. I like Silver's character, the level design (at least for Sonic) is actually okay, and I'd rather have these overpresice controls than the ice physics of Heroes and Shadow (although I do like Heroes alright).

I can agree on that

[pppp]

So what your saying is that Shadow looking for the Emeralds and Silver killing Sonic couldn't make his plan easier huh?

 

Not really. He knows where the emeralds are. All he has to do is go to who has them, use his laser sword thingy to kill them and there.

 

Why not just do this?

[Sonicstitch]

OK this is awsome it  fixes Sonic 06
go to 7:00
Sonic The Hedgehog Reminiscent Nine

 

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

That post was made before there was a response to it.

And what I'm stating is that it was another bout of you repeating yourself, with an argument that's already been rebuffed in the past.