Official Sonic 2006 topic

[Komodin]

iirc, Omega was the fastest character in the game.

[Silver*]

Anyways; check out the review; so to clear things up about why I like the game and my acknowledgment of it's flaws.

I'm not saying that the game was perfect, it's far from it actually. I was saying that out of all the Sonic games I've played, this was the one I enjoyed the most, despite it's glaring flaws. I wrote something on everything I liked and disliked about the game:

The big par of Sonic 06 that I liked, which actually got me stumped on what rating to give the game, is Silver's part. Playing as Silver and seeing the world through his eyes was the best experience I have ever went through in a Sonic game. The gameplay was fun and original and he had his very own style with didn't take away from the blue dude's skills. You also had to rely on reflexes and logic to perfect his gameplay rather than the level design. It also had Amy, who's gameplay was cute and Blaze who's gameplay was yes boring but better than Sonic or Shadow's. And has her own spin on the homing attack. Nonetheless, I'd much rather play with Silver, Blaze and Amy (maybe Cream to even tho she wasn't in the game) than with Sonic, Tails and Knuckles or Shadow, Rouge and Omega.

Shadow's part is the worst. Like I don't really mind the vehicles, but these are the most out of control, slippery ones so far. Especially the motorcycles. And the fact that you are forced to ride them. At least ShTH made them fun and actually non-slippery and you only had to ride them in like 4 small parts. And besides from Mephiles, his story is boring and so was his gameplay. It was a reskin of Sonic but with chaos powers. And he was slow. Yes he was because with hover shoes, he could at least been faster but he was slower than Sonic who was already slow. Shadow the Hedgehog had at least verity to go with his gameplay. When we get to Rouge... she is one of the most rushed gameplays. Basically a model swap with Knuckles with Tails' attacks. And I thought bats can FLY not GLIDE. Omega was okay in the boss fight. Can't complain.

Sonic's story... well his story was very tedious. But better than Shadow's who is all about GUN and blah blah. His speed levels were horrendous and in his regular levels he was slow. He was faster in the town missions. Now I know I like Silver's gameplay and he's slow, but unlike Sonic or Shadow, Silver has every reason to be slow. They do not and there's no excuse as to why they are so slow, especially Sonic. Except for the slowness, his gameplay was alright... I've seen him do better in other games. Tails was the worst and the most rushed. His flight was slippery and his attacks were the most stupid. Dummy ring bomb. I hated that and I had to do with AIRBORNE while trying to get a door to open. Never mind that he was going at like .5 mph. Knuckles gameplay was good and his attacks were the same from Heroes with a little twist.

The last story was hard and it was way too serious for my taste and too emotional as well. The soloaris boss was easy and I finished the last attacks as Silver.

The music was awesome. There are some parts of the game that people were overexaggerating about. The loading times weren't that bad and every time a person said "hey" it didn't go right into a loading screen. And I dislike how they make these characters overpowered by having you buy these powers. Does Silver really need teleport dash? Hell no. He was doing fine with defeating the enemies with his established abilities. And Sonic with gems with crazy powers? Nope. And Shadow' s chaos inferno :-/

So do I like this game? Yes. Is it better than the classics? I don't play my classic collection anymore.. I only play my 3-D games since they are all more interesting. But I do rather play this game than the likes of Sonic Labyrinth, Sonic 3, Sonic 3 and Knuckles, Sonic 1, Knuckles Chaotix and Sonic Adventure 1 and 2.

If it was just all about Silver which it was originally going to be and his powers, saving Crisis City, keeping the legacy of Crisis City alive and keeping his dreams alive and Blaze by his side sharing equal respect and not being a sidekick but not overshadowing Silver and also keeping her princess title. And then another character from that same timeline (which they could have introduced Marine there). Replace Iblis with Eggman Nega (who could have be introduced) and this would have been the best game I've ever played.

[Emmett L. Brown]

I disagree. That they tried to make it a serious point at all is proof enough to me that they didn't want to let go of that bit of characterization. If they wanted to turn it around and show that Shadow has changed, they should've had him push back a lot harder. As it is, his responses (when he has any, and isn't merely switching between "glare" and "glare harder") are pretty clearly based on that angst still being there.

Is it as bad as in ShtH? No. But his story still relies on angst.

Edited January 19, 2012 by Grumpy Old Guy

[JezMM]

Here's a little tiny thing I loved - I really did dig that the final act of the game, with Shadow, had him basically play almost the entire demo stage.

Kind of a nice bookend that our final gameplay before the last boss was, to many, the very first gameplay we got to play. I almost wish they had just done the whole of Kingdom Valley Act 1 instead of skipping the start point about 30 seconds in.

[Scar]

The only good thing about Shadow's story was the interactions he had with other characters. His animation and general body language was really dull and limited to, as Dio said, glaring and glaring harder. Its a shame, because certain lines of dialogue and some of his interactions implied a changed and deepened character, but the way he was portrayed, both in Voice Direction and animation, really did absolutely nothing to support it.

He looked like Keanu Reeves, reading out emotional dialogue. Sure it has meaning and develops character, but it loses all of that when the person has a single fixed facial expression that never changes regardless of the situation, what's worse is that its always the same semi-angry, semi-stoic glare, which has become Shadow's rather unfortunate stereotype as a result.

[SuperStingray]

I think the problem here is that you're jumping between the two extremes; either there is a 100% complete way to judge a game objectively (which you reject), or objectivity has no place in judgments. But these are not the only options, and both of these are wrong.

On the contrary, my point is that subjective judgements are based on objective information, but there is no such thing as subjective information or objective judgements. The only exception might be claiming that the idea something exists to be a judgement, but even then it's arguable; even if you can't see the color red, wavelengths of light between 630 and 740 nanometers still exist, but now I'm just getting existential.

There are plenty of things that are subjective, debatable, up to personal opinion, etc. But there are also things that are objective, or so close that there is no reasonable defense of them; '06's ridiculous load times, for one. And I think that '06's objective problems are so great that it cannot reasonably be called a good game regardless of what one feels of the subjective aspects.

If every living thing on Earth suddenly died this second, would 06 still be a bad game? Better yet, what if it was discovered by a group of aliens, through a very strange and foreign direction of brain development, are more prone to enjoy loading screens? I know this hypothetical sounds strange, but the point is just because the perspective doesn't exist doesn't mean it can't. The loading screens are long. That's the information. The loading screens are bad because they are long. That's the conclusion based on the information. It's a universal conslusion to all people who've played it, but that doesn't make it a fact.

An opinion is invalid if it is based on falsehoods.

Okay? So the opinion exists. No one's denied that. You were supposed to show that the opinion is valid.

If an opinion can be considered objectively invalid, that devalues the entire scientific method. I remember this joke...

An astronomer, a physicist and a mathematician are on a train in Scotland. The astronomer looks out of the window, sees a black sheep standing in a field, and remarks, "How odd. Scottish sheep are black." "No, no, no!" says the physicist. "Only some Scottish sheep are black." The mathematician rolls his eyes at his companions' muddled thinking and says, "In Scotland, there is at least one sheep, at least one side of which appears to be black from here."

All of them are perfectly reasonsable hypotheses or conclusions based on the information at hand, each more accurate than the last, but nothing irrational, yet only the mathematical view is objective. Even if it's unreasonable to assume that only half the sheep is black, it's still all we can confirm, but the physical theory is the important one- by encountering one sheep in Scotland that's black, the conclusion can be drawn that there are more. Keep in mind that that's a judgement based on a fact: an opinion. Is it a correct opinion? Maybe, maybe not. But if we can't say its true, does that make it invalid? If it was, then we'd never know the answer because we'd never explore it.

Same goes for 06. If I were to call the loading sceens short because I've only played games with longer ones, that gives me a narrow perspective, but considering I'm speaking relative to my criteria, it's not invalidated by the fact other games with shorter loading screens exist, just easily overwritable.

The only thing I could call invalid is when someone says they believe something they actually don't, but at that point, it's not an opinion, just empty words. And difficult to prove either way.

Again, there is no One True Judgment. Even considering some aspects to be objective, there's still plenty that's left up to interpretation and personal preference.

Assuming that by "aspect" you mean the problems with the game, asserting that ANY aspect is objective is essentially claiming there is One True Judgement on them individually.

Edited January 20, 2012 by SuperStingray

[Nerfuffle]

Well, since we’re knee deep in yet another 06 debate….

Out of curiosity, which do you folks find more enjoyable; the cutscenes/storylines of 06, or the ones from the Sonic games by the current writers? In general, not focusing on "that one redeemable arc/character".

[Ferno]

I like the Half&Half thing they did with Unleashed, all the grandness and meatyness of '06, with most of the lightheartedness of the current games.

[Scar]

Well, since we’re knee deep in yet another 06 debate….

Out of curiosity, which do you folks find more enjoyable; the cutscenes/storylines of 06, or the ones from the Sonic games by the current writers? In general, not focusing on "that one redeemable arc/character".

[Burnt Ash]

Unleashed ~ Current.

06 was a colossal clusterfuck in terms of story. It was too convoluted for its own good and simultaneously horrifically executed save for a few cutscenes from Shadow's story (not all if it, most wof it was still shite). The dialogue was total garbage too.

[SuperStingray]

I can't use an adjective to describe Sonic 06 that hasn't already been used, but if it was self-aware it would have been genius. As it stands it's a twisted amalgam of bloated context, empty actions and a wholehearted misunderstanding of the concept of causality. If it knew this, it would be an entire story written by people who wanted to know: What if Stephanie Meyer wrote an episode of Doctor Who?

Edited January 20, 2012 by SuperStingray

[VO.SUPER]

Only as a guilty pleasure. It makes very good guilty pleasure material actually.

[JezMM]

I actually liked the story up until all the plotholes happen - and I REALLY like the ending, even if the quality of what came before it meant it didn't have the emotional impact they clearly wanted it to.

But in terms of dialogue and stuff, yeah what they're doing now is much more Sonic. I would like them to have a go at a "serious" story though. Doesn't mean they have to have Sonic act serious of course.

[Solly]

I actually liked the story up until all the plotholes happen -

Considering Blaze appears in the very first cutscene of Silver's story(and merely a few scenes into Sonic's story), I'd say that the plotholes start right about there.

[Treacher]

Anyways; check out the review; so to clear things up about why I like the game and my acknowledgment of it's flaws.

I've got a few questions.

What do you mean that Amy's gameplay is "cute"? It's not very descriptive.

Could you also explain how Silver "doesn't take away from the blue dude's skills"?

Aren't some of those, like the gems, optional extra abilities? What makes them more overpowered than say, the boost or homing attack in later Sonic games?

And it's probably subjective, but the vehicles in ShtH, while better implemented and less forced, a lot didn't control or feel all that well or fun.

[Speederino]

Ehm...no. No it's not. When glitches invade the gameplay, is that good? How bout when characters in a series built around speed run slowly? How bout cheap difficulty? 'Zat good? Not even being able to get off of wall as Knuckles or Rouge? Like it or not, a lot of 06's flaws are, to any thinking person, just that: flaws no matter how you look at it, and since they pervade the entire game, I think they would make the game count as objectively a bad game. Not objectively a bad experience, as one's enjoyment of a work and tolerance to its flaws is always subjective, but it's at best objectively severely flawed.

But even things like glitches are going to wildly vary from person to person. For some people, these glitches might appear to be so minor that they're nearly inconsequential. (Mind you, I'm not sure WHO would think this, but there's bound to be someone who sees it that way) Another big factor- which I think people often forget- not everyone is going to run into the same glitches. Some people might not see ANY glitches. I can't say how many times I've heard people talk about falling through the floor in Shadow the Hedgehog, but I personally never once saw that happen. In fact, I'm not sure I ever saw any real substantial glitch.

Keep in mind I am most certainly not trying to defend Sonic 2006, as I freakin' hate that game beyond belief. But you can't say the game's quality is objective. It's certainly objective that the game is glitchy for most people, and that most people find the controls to be horrid. But popular opinion doesn't make those qualities factually good or factually bad.

EDIT: Oh geez, I did NOT see the timestamp on that post. Well, my argument still stands regardless of it being six months late to the party

Edited January 20, 2012 by Speederino

[JezMM]

Considering Blaze appears in the very first cutscene of Silver's story(and merely a few scenes into Sonic's story), I'd say that the plotholes start right about there.

...Okay, I guess a better way of putting it is, I like the story until the "no-going-back" point is reached of NOT explaining the plotholes. Lol.

[The Weeb with No Name]

No she isn't. I don't know what else I can add to this post other than Sonic is the faster character in the game.

Are you saying this out of principle or actual experience? I'm pretty sure her standard running speed is faster.

Aren't some of those, like the gems, optional extra abilities? What makes them more overpowered than say, the boost or homing attack in later Sonic games?

I think one lets you float through an entire stage.

Edited January 20, 2012 by Jayhawker30

[Commissar Hurricane]

i liked the music, Blaze, Shadow's story and the idea behind Silver's game play and time travel.

Overall I would say I'm indifferent though I wonder how I would I feel if I played it once more.

[Blue Blood]

Are you saying this out of principle or actual experience? I'm pretty sure her standard running speed is faster.

Actual experience. Sonic is fastest. If I could open the games .lua files again I'd show you.

[The Weeb with No Name]

Well, alright. I guess it was just how god awful slow he is in comparison to pretty much any other Sonic game that gave me the impression.

Blaze is more fun to play as, though.

[Solkia]

Are you saying this out of principle or actual experience? I'm pretty sure her standard running speed is faster.

I think one lets you float through an entire stage.

The purple gem. It let's you continuously jump in mid-air, but since the power bar wasn't implemented corectly for Sonic, you can use it however long you want.

[HeroMystic]

He looked like Keanu Reeves, reading out emotional dialogue. Sure it has meaning and develops character, but it loses all of that when the person has a single fixed facial expression that never changes regardless of the situation, what's worse is that its always the same semi-angry, semi-stoic glare, which has become Shadow's rather unfortunate stereotype as a result.

I really like this analogy.

Though as far as Angst goes, I believe the term is used wrongly when describing Shadow. The definiton for angst is "a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity". In Sonic '06, which is a game I've only played once but seen a bunch of LP's for, I've never really noticed this notion of angst. His story tries to pull out a large amount of drama however, with Mephiles saying the world will betray him and his robotic friend is gonna kill him 'n such, but Shadow either brushed it off or gave it some thought then went "Eh, whatever." and went on with his mission.

I believe the best term to describe Shadow is stoic, if not emotionless. That nearly describes him in all the games past Shadow the Hedgehog, with the exception of Sonic Rivals 2 and Sonic Free Riders (Free Riders having a way different take on him).

[Emmett L. Brown]

I really like this analogy.

Though as far as Angst goes, I believe the term is used wrongly when describing Shadow. The definiton for angst is "a feeling of anxiety, apprehension, or insecurity". In Sonic '06, which is a game I've only played once but seen a bunch of LP's for, I've never really noticed this notion of angst. His story tries to pull out a large amount of drama however, with Mephiles saying the world will betray him and his robotic friend is gonna kill him 'n such, but Shadow either brushed it off or gave it some thought then went "Eh, whatever." and went on with his mission.

I believe the best term to describe Shadow is stoic, if not emotionless. That nearly describes him in all the games past Shadow the Hedgehog, with the exception of Sonic Rivals 2 and Sonic Free Riders (Free Riders having a way different take on him).

[Celestia]

Shadow's portrayal in Free Riders (although this is only going off Youtube videos, haven't played the game) reminds me of his personality in SA2. The arrogance, at least. I kind of hope that's the direction they go with his personality.