The Sonic Vs Thread.

[Komodin]

Yet the scene afterwards doesn't show anything on it as far as what canonically happens after their fight as far as the ending goes.

 

Meanwhile, the last story's intro scene picks right up after the Dark story, and goes from there. I'm not seeing the connection; you might as well say they're contradictory.

 

Well, the story implies that both Hero and Dark endings happened, with Sonic slamdunking the fake Emerald in the Eclipse Cannon and Eggman, none the wiser, inserting the final, actual, Emerald into the slot that triggered Gerald's Doomsday plan.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Well, the story implies that both Hero and Dark endings happened, with Sonic slamdunking the fake Emerald in the Eclipse Cannon and Eggman, none the wiser, inserting the final, actual, Emerald into the slot that triggered Gerald's Doomsday plan.

Into the Cannon itself?

 

Yeah, there's another hole in SA2's storytelling department. I know he said he would do that, but I assumed it would be in the control room where all the other Emeralds were, not in side the cannon itself.

 

Woulda helped if we saw how he did that, if you ask me.

[Mysterious X]

Explain. Because the Last Story picks right up from his ending.

 

I think how the real canon story went: Sonic won (Sonic's ending), because if he didn't he'd be dead, so Shadow got back to the central control room all beat up and pride-injured, until Amy came and messed with his head.

Sometimes, only one side of the two stories is canon, Tails says: "this is this first time Sonic asks me to do something for him", but in the Dark Story we find that Eggman actually got the seventh Chaos Emerald, which means Eggman's ending is canon, he kicked Tails' butt and got the Emerald, pretty much the same for Sonic and Shadow, because if Sonic didn't win he won't be able to move on, Shadow wouldn't allow him to.

 

Oh, and... I've been saying 'ending' too much, I meant Shadow's last stage in the Dark Story, defeating Sonic, that's not canon.

 

Well, the story implies that both Hero and Dark endings happened, with Sonic slamdunking the fake Emerald in the Eclipse Cannon and Eggman, none the wiser, inserting the final, actual, Emerald into the slot that triggered Gerald's Doomsday plan.

 

Each of the stories has canon parts, in Knuckles' fight against Rouge, it doesn't matter which character you win it with, because neither of them actually wins, they stop fighting and she gives him the pieces, THAT, is canon.

But when it comes to Shadow and Sonic, Shadow beat Sonic, and Sonic beat Shadow? No.

We're talking about Shadow and Sonic's fight. Not the ending which is made through by Eggman. I'm sorry about confusing everyone by saying "Shadow's ending".

 

Edit:

 

Into the Cannon itself?

 

Yeah, there's another hole in SA2's storytelling department. I know he said he would do that, but I assumed it would be in the control room where all the other Emeralds were, not in side the cannon itself.

 

Woulda helped if we saw how he did that, if you ask me.

 

What do you mean "all the other Emeralds"? It was a fake one, remember?

 

Edit: And they DO show how he throws the fake yellow emerald into the cannon.

Edited April 12, 2013 by Mysterious X

[Diogenes]

Sometimes, only one side of the two stories is canon, Tails says: "this is this first time Sonic asks me to do something for him", but in the Dark Story we find that Eggman actually got the seventh Chaos Emerald, which means Eggman's ending is canon, he kicked Tails' butt and got the Emerald,

[Mysterious X]

 

Oh MAN! I was wondering what the heck happened, I thought it was Shadow's arm (since it's black and red, and a white glove, and some kinda ring). And kept wondering why he never appeared with it anyway. Freaking confusing.

So this means, Eggman defeating Tails isn't canon as well, but taking the Emerald, and the Dark ending in whole 'is'. Sheesh, heroes always win.....

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

What do you mean "all the other Emeralds"? It was a fake one, remember?

I meant the fake one with all the other emeralds.

 

And no, they didn't show him put the fake one in with them.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[NocturnalTwilight]

They won't.

 

 

Shadow's own arsenal of Chaos energy is obviously an advantage, heck, he destroyed some dozens of Mephiles' clones, tell me this wasn't canon.

 

It wasn't Canon, none of Sonic '06 was Canon because it was all erased in the end when Elise blew out the Flame of Solaris. 

[Mysterious X]

I meant the fake one with all the other emeralds.

 

And no, they didn't show him put the fake one in with them.

 

I thought you meant 'put it in the cannon'.

 

Why the heck would fake one be with them anyway?

 

It wasn't Canon, none of Sonic '06 was Canon because it was all erased in the end when Elise blew out the Flame of Solaris. 

 

Define canon.

[NocturnalTwilight]

Why the heck would fake one be with them anyway?

 

They used the Fake Emerald to mess up the ARK's firing process. 

 

Define canon.

 

You tell me, you brought it up first.

[Mysterious X]

They used the Fake Emerald to mess up the ARK's firing process.

And no, they didn't show him put the fake one in with them.

Why the heck would fake one be with them anyway?

 

Let me rephrase it: Why the heck would the fake emerald be with the other Emeralds anyway?

 

You tell me, you brought it up first.

 

Here you go: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canon#Translations The last one.

[NocturnalTwilight]

Here you go: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/canon#Translations The last one.

Haha, thank you, my friend. 

 

 

But really, guys. Not trying to be a wet blanket, but shouldn't this discussion be in the Sonic Adventure 2 topic? 

 

Still haven't had my Sonic VS Shadow question answered yet...

[Mysterious X]

It's all ElectroKyurem's and ChaosSupremeSonîc's fault...

 

Anyway, starting off:

 

Sonic and Shadow share the same amount of power, same speed. But who's smarter? I don't know, Sonic is a simple guy, who sometimes prove to be not-so-well-educated, while Shadow looks like an average person with an IQ of 100, but sounds wise, doesn't speak when he doesn-- Okay, I'm not supposed to make a biography of each of them.

 

When it comes to advantages and disadvantages, they're almost the same guy, except for Shadow's own special unique Chaos powers, that I already mentioned, I really don't have anything else to add.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

I thought you meant 'put it in the cannon'.

Into the cannon or into the control room, they didn't show either scene. Eggman put the real one in with the others, and the Hero ending just shows the Eclipse cannon exploding.

 

Why the heck would fake one be with them anyway?

To mess up the firing sequence like they said they would?

 

That core where all the other emeralds were placed was kinda the thing drawing the energy, ya know. Kinda assumed a fake one would mess that up.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Jolt_TH]

What do you mean "all the other Emeralds"? It was a fake one, remember?

Edit: And they DO show how he throws the fake yellow emerald into the cannon.

The fake emerald never made it to the canon.

Tails had the REAL emerald that Eggman stole, he got defeated but ran off with it while Tails was distracted. Sonic had the fake emerald that he used to Chaos Control to final Rush. Therefore the emerald we see Eggman throwing into the canon is the real one. If sonic had succeded in putting the fake emerald into the canon the. Surely Eggman couldn't have put the real one in?

Im sure if Gerald would have had a fail safe against "fake emeralds" I mean if be can make Shadow. And I don't think the fake emerald would have caused the Ark to crash as it was meant to reverse the energy or something, so there would be no energy to stop in canons core

[Mysterious X]

Into the cannon or into the control room, they didn't show either scene. Eggman put the real one in with the others, and the Hero ending just shows the Eclipse cannon exploding.

 

To mess up the firing sequence like they said they would?

 

That core where all the other emeralds were placed was kinda the thing drawing the energy, ya know. Kinda assumed a fake one would mess that up.

 

You're missing the WHOLE picture.

The fake emerald has the same wavelength, it wouldn't mess with the sequence, Sonic said obviously (and couldn't be more obvious) that he will throw it "slam dunk it" into the freaking cannon, and he freaking does (in the Hero ending which is not the real ending). That's how they were going to mess it up, get rid of the cannon and losing a fake emerald, no one loses.

 

It's not "they didn't show either scene", it's you didn't see neither scenes.

 

 

 

The fake emerald never made it to the canon.

Tails had the REAL emerald that Eggman stole, he got defeated but ran off with it while Tails was distracted. Sonic had the fake emerald that he used to Chaos Control to final Rush. Therefore the emerald we see Eggman throwing into the canon is the real one.

 

Oh so because you have a logical explanation, you think you can decide what happened?

After using Chaos Control and beating Shadow, Sonic 'dunks' the fake emerald into the cannon, like I already said above, it's not canon, but still, you're saying and so confidently: "never made it to the canon"?

 

I'm starting to suspect that you either have never played it, or it's been some 4 or 5 years since you have, and yet you try to argue proving almost nothing (no offense but, isn't this what you're doing?). Neither Eggman or anyone else 'threw' any 'real' Emerald into the 'cannon', there's this control room, and he simply attached it to the energy supply. I have no idea how can anyone miss such a simple scene.

 

If sonic had succeded in putting the fake emerald into the canon the. Surely Eggman couldn't have put the real one in?

 

This is what I exactly meant by 'logical explanation', Sonic wasn't planning on 'putting' it, but like I said, throwing it inside the cannon, even if Sonic threw it, Eggman will never know, because throwing it in the cannon hole won't magically transport it to the power supply, which is where Eggman 'had' to put all the seven Chaos Emeralds in, in order to power the cannon to the fullest.

 

Im sure if Gerald would have had a fail safe against "fake emeralds" I mean if be can make Shadow. And I don't think the fake emerald would have caused the Ark to crash as it was meant to reverse the energy or something, so there would be no energy to stop in canons core

 

Yet again, nothing has canonically proven that if an emerald is fake (in this case), it should reverse the energy or anything like this, it has the same wavelength, it's a CHAOS emerald, apparently only weaker, so saying "there would be no energy" is completely senseless, six Emeralds were enough to take off a huge piece of the moon,almost the half, adding the fake one will negate all the six or something? (If) six Emeralds + the real one = total destruction of Earth, then six Emeralds + a fake one (which is ONLY weaker) = partial destruction of Earth, maybe half the planet will be gone, that's if Professor Gerald didn't have other plans... So yeah, the fake one 'should' be able to start the process (only) 'if' it has enough power, but since we don't know exactly how much 'weaker' than the original it is, we'll never know for sure.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

You're missing the WHOLE picture.

The fake emerald has the same wavelength, it wouldn't mess with the sequence, Sonic said obviously (and couldn't be more obvious) that he will throw it "slam dunk it" into the freaking cannon, and he freaking does (in the Hero ending which is not the real ending). That's how they were going to mess it up, get rid of the cannon and losing a fake emerald, no one loses.

 

It's not "they didn't show either scene", it's you didn't see neither scenes.

 

 

And for the record, it just shows the cannon blowing up. It doesn't show Sonic putting the emerald into the cannon, if you've actually read what I said.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Mysterious X]

Oh no, Sonic just spitted at the cannon, he was just making a joke when he said "slam dunk it" into the cannon. Poor liar, Sonic.

 

And I know exactly what you're talking.

 

Well, the story implies that both Hero and Dark endings happened, with Sonic slamdunking the fake Emerald in the Eclipse Cannon and Eggman, none the wiser, inserting the final, actual, Emerald into the slot that triggered Gerald's Doomsday plan.

 

For the record, Sonic 'DID' throw it in the cannon, this isn't a storyline joke, where characters say EXACTLY how they will do something, but they magically do it in a mysterious way without telling us so people like you claim that they did it another way.

 

You know basketball, don't you? Slam dunk means when you jump and put the Emerald right inside the cannon's hole, Sonic's line was never poorly worded, it was clear as heck. I. Will. Slam. Dunk. It. Into. The. Cannon.

 

Into the Cannon itself?

 

Yeah, there's another hole in SA2's storytelling department. I know he said he would do that, but I assumed it would be in the control room where all the other Emeralds were, not in side the cannon itself.

 

Woulda helped if we saw how he did that, if you ask me.

 

This isn't a plot hole, yes into the cannon itself, if you know he said something that obvious, why would you assume he'll do it another way? Was he kidding?

This isn't a plot hole, only because you decide it is. Or because what you assumed was wrong, and things didn't go like you wanted.

We don't even need to see him do it, not to mention that it will be a complicated scene that I doubt Sonic Team had the ability to create it then, but it's still very apparent, he said he will throw it, so that's what he did.

 

STILL, it has the SAME wavelength, putting it in with the other six, will NOT affect it negatively. You didn't even read all my post.

 

Komodin DOES have a point, I can't be sure the Hero ending was canon, but whether the cannon was destroyed or not, activating it will ANYWAY activate Gerald's program. But I tend to have a doubt that the cannon was destroyed, because as far as I remember it appeared in Shadow the Hedgehog, or did it? That will decide if it's canon.

 

To mess up the firing sequence like they said they would?

 

Correction: Like you assumed?

They never mentioned anything about fiddling with the sequence, this is all based on your assumptions. The fake emerald never had to be with the real ones, no one EVER mentioned anything like that.

Tails is the smart one, yet he asked what are we gonna do?! Sonic answered, I will "slam dunk it". And that's what he did, again.

 

...

 

Some people just can't admit that they were wrong, or that they just didn't know the whole story.

 

Here's what happened: Sonic threw the emerald, and contacted Tails, in that moment Eggman snapped the Emerald. "Look outside." said Sonic, while Tails was looking outside, and while Eggman was putting the Emerald in place in the same time, the cannon launch time was reached, as a result the cannon was destroyed, in the same instant, the alert along with Gerald's record started.

Could never be any simpler than that!

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And I know exactly what you're talking.

Yeah, no you don't.

For the record, Sonic 'DID' throw it in the cannon, this isn't a storyline joke, where characters say EXACTLY how they will do something, but they magically do it in a mysterious way without telling us so people like you claim that they did it another way.

Yeah, but it still didn't show him throw it into the cannon. There's a thing called "Show, don't Tell" and that pretty much wasn't it.

 

You know basketball, don't you? 

Nope, I sure don't know anything 'bout no basketball.

This isn't a plot hole, yes into the cannon itself, if you know he said something that obvious, why would you assume he'll do it another way? Was he kidding?

Yeah, you know the place where Eggman had all the emeralds placed during the game during his story? That's what I was talking about bro.

 

 

STILL, it has the SAME wavelength, putting it in with the other six, will NOT affect it negatively. You didn't even read all my post.

 

Because your post wasn't about anything I was talking about. I mean where did I say anything about the fake emerald's wavelength at all?

 

Some people just can't admit that they were wrong, or that they just didn't know the whole story.

And some people just don't know how to read someone's post.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Mysterious X]

Yeah, but it still didn't show him throw it into the cannon. There's a thing called "Show, don't Tell" and that pretty much wasn't it.

 

This only means that it didn't go the way you wanted?

You're saying this doesn't answer your question? No they didn't show him do it, happy? But he did it anyway, agree?

 

No, I don't.

Nope, I sure don't know anything 'bout no basketball.

 

Now I got you didn't I! Why did you edit that? Confess!

 

And why not? You don't like basketball? I like it but I prefer Soccer.

 

Yeah, you know the place where Eggman had all the emeralds placed during the game during his story? That's what I was talking about bro.

 

Looks like you wanted to sound less sarcastic by adding the "bro", not working.

Anyway, it is the same power supply I already mentioned, Gosh did you even read the post? Sonic wasn't planning to do it wherever Eggman put all the emeralds in his story which is the real story, in the central control room.

 

I DO know what you're talking about, maybe I 'didn't' the first time but now I do.

 

Because your post wasn't about anything I was talking about. I mean where did I say anything about the fake emerald's wavelength at all?

 

Weren't you the one who suggested Sonic was putting it in the control panel along with real Chaos Emeralds? Thinking that it will "mess up the firing sequence"? Tell me I'm wrong. The fake one has the same wavelength, meaning it will act like an actual one, it won't ever mess up any heck.

... And I'm the one not reading well.

 

And some people just don't know how to read someone's post.

 

I'm blind so my imaginary friend reads for me, the problem is, my imaginary friend is cross-eyed.

 

(Now really no, I'm not blind.)

[SweeCrue]

Weren't you the one who suggested Sonic was putting it in the control panel along with real Chaos Emeralds? Thinking that it will "mess up the firing sequence"? Tell me I'm wrong. The fake one has the same wavelength, meaning it will act like an actual one, it won't ever mess up any heck.

... And I'm the one not reading well.

 

"It's designed to reverse the energy fields inside the Chaos Emeralds and blow up!"

 

So, yes. It would mess shit up.

[Splash the Otter]

Does it really matter, since Eggman was able to get the real emerald anyway?

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

This only means that it didn't go the way you wanted?

Or rather it didn't go in the way I expected.

You're saying this doesn't answer your question? No they didn't show him do it, happy? But he did it anyway, agree?

Not really, because that just shows the flaws in the storytelling.

 

Now I got you didn't I! Why did you edit that? Confess!

To add to the sarcasm, which went over your head.

Looks like you wanted to sound less sarcastic by adding the "bro", not working.

No, I kinda did it to make it more sarcastic, bro.

Anyway, it is the same power supply I already mentioned, Gosh did you even read the post? Sonic wasn't planning to do it wherever Eggman put all the emeralds in his story which is the real story, in the central control room.

Well considering that the story specifically said that it was impossible to destroy it from the outside and that they had to do it from the inside, in the control room? You tell me.

 

Or better yet, look at the video SweeCrue posted.

I DO know what you're talking about, maybe I 'didn't' the first time but now I do.

Yeah, no you do not.

Weren't you the one who suggested Sonic was putting it in the control panel along with real Chaos Emeralds? Thinking that it will "mess up the firing sequence"? Tell me I'm wrong. The fake one has the same wavelength, meaning it will act like an actual one, it won't ever mess up any heck.

... And I'm the one not reading well.

Well SweeCrue kinda gave you what I meant.

I'm blind so my imaginary friend reads for me, the problem is, my imaginary friend is cross-eyed.

 

(Now really no, I'm not blind.)

Tell your imaginary friend to read the post in full sentences next time then. Otherwise, why don't we drop the attitude, because it's only escalating from here.

 

EDIT: And dude, really, I'm not going to have a pissing match with you over this anymore. I think you know how to be more civil than this.

Edited April 12, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Mysterious X]

"It's designed to reverse the energy fields inside the Chaos Emeralds and blow up!"

 

So, yes. It would mess shit up.

 

Oh good, finally someone knows how to support a point with proof, rather than endless talk.

So this proves that it reverses the energy fields.

Still, Sonic decided after that (and I'm not gonna look for a video, we all know it) since there wasn't enough time, to throw it inside as what they call 'Plan B'.

 

Does it really matter, since Eggman was able to get the real emerald anyway?

 

Yes. We're not killing each other, we're trying to reach out for the truth, at least I AM.

 

Or rather it didn't go in the way I expected.

 

Name it what you like.

 

Not really, because that just shows the flaws in the storytelling.

 

I strongly disagree. But I agree that there are a few parts that seemed a little complicated and took time to comprehend.

 

To add to the sarcasm, which went over your head.

 

Thanks you. You're the nicest.

 

No, I kinda did it to make it more sarcastic, bro.

 

That was my second guess, thank you, again.

 

Well considering that the story specifically said that it was impossible to destroy it from the outside and that they had to do it from the inside, in the control room? You tell me.

 

Oh Sonic you silly, you can't attack it from the outside, how will you slam dunk the emerald in that thing called 'hole', or when the cannon opens? You're truly clueless, Sonic.

Want me to post the video again?

Sure SweeCrue's video shows that they were going to the control room and the power supply separately, but his video is 'a little' behind the one I posted. Things changed.

 

Tell your imaginary friend to read the post in full sentences next time then. Otherwise, why don't we drop the attitude, because it's only escalating from here.

 

See how you don't read carefully? I told you he's cross-eyed.

 

And dude, really, I'm not going to have a pissing match with you over this anymore. I think you know how to be more civil than this.

 

You're continuous sarcasm, is very civilized.

Want me to be a civil? Go ahead and be one, I like to be the type who treats people the same way they treat him. While I try to add some humor, all you add is sarcasm.

 

It's only a matter of time one or both of us start with cursing and all, you know what they say, "Breaking all the rules." And then a moderator will notice, and will either lock the thread or get us banned, or both. That won't be pleasant. I don't care about losing an argument, apparently, you do.

[Tornado]

Guys, this thread is hardly a life or death kind of discussion. Please keep the causticity on the down low.

[Emerald Chaos]

I always interpreted it as Sonic neutralizing Shadow and attaching the fake Chaos Emerald to the cannon from the outside. Causing the cannon to blow up when it tried to charge the power for the blast. They don't show how Sonic attached it, because, for the purposes of the story it isn't really important, even if it doesn't logically make sense.

 

When Eggman inserts the real Emerald he gets frustrated, asking why the cannon won't fire, and that's because it's destroyed ala Sonic's efforts. But destroying the cannon had no effect on Gerald's program so it activated anyway.