The Sonic Vs Thread.

[Diogenes]

I've heard the "ascended chao" theory (and frankly I find it rather hard to believe)

It's in his Sonic Channel profile, so how you find it is irrelevant.

but that doesn't make him not a god!

Depends on how you define "a god".

And seriously, "water spirit"? That's just plain disrespectful.

I think it's pretty accurate. He is, more or less, animate water, and all that entails. Tsunamis included.

[Kuzu]

He's a god in the sense of being revered as a deity, but not a god in the biblical sense.

[Komodin]

How is Chaos not a god? Sure, he isn't a primal force like Gaia, but I don't see what difference that makes.

 

Chaos is a heavily mutated, immortal Chao. Sure, in his Perfect form, he's nigh-invincible (though, the same is true for Super Sonic), but in his base state, he's not all that powerful.

[Splash the Otter]

It's in his Sonic Channel profile, so how you find it is irrelevant.

 

I think it's pretty accurate. He is, more or less, animate water, and all that entails. Tsunamis included.

But it's stupid! Before they made that profile, Chaos provided an element of fantasy to the series by being a physical god. Now that he's just a glorified chao, he isn't that special anymore, and the fantasy elements are lost.

 

And when you say "water spirit", you're implying that he was just a minor aquatic deity. He's the god of the Chaos Emeralds, so calling him a mere "water spirit" is understating the true extent of his powers.

 

But let's stop talking about Chaos, before this argument gets out of hand. Here's a good one: Erazor Djinn vs. Merlina. Who would win?

Edited April 13, 2013 by ElectroKyurem

[Komodin]

But it's stupid! Before they made that profile, Chaos provided an element of fantasy to the series by being a physical god. Now that he's just a glorified chao, he isn't that special anymore, and the fantasy elements are lost.

 

What do you mean? He was mutated by the Chaos Emeralds and became a water elemental. It's about as fantastical as you can get.

 

And when you say "water spirit", you're implying that he was just a minor aquatic deity. He's the god of the Chaos Emeralds, so calling him a mere "water spirit" is understating the true extent of his powers.

 

That's basically what he is -- a water elemental. His ties to the Emeralds outside of transforming via them died when he was sealed into the Master Emerald and when he, after being pacified by Super Sonic, ascended to a higher plane of existence with Tikal.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Komodin

[Splash the Otter]

What do you mean? He was mutated by the Chaos Emeralds and became a water elemental. It's about as fantastical as you can get.

 

 

That's basically what he is -- a water elemental. His ties to the Emeralds outside of transforming via them died when he was sealed into the Master Emerald and when he, after being pacified by Super Sonic, ascended to a higher plane of existence with Tikal.

It isn't as fantastical as I would have liked it to be. And why couldn't they have had him create the first chao, rather than being one himself?

 

His ties to the emeralds are alive and well. If they weren't, then why would he be made of chaos energy? And he didn't ascend to a higher plane, because we see him again in Sonic Battle.

 

Again, I would like to stop discussing this and move on to a different match.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ElectroKyurem

[Komodin]

The "mutation" aspect sounds uncomfortably like Science Fiction to me.

 

The main antagonist is an evil scientist who built a multitude of factories, airships and space stations. The sci-fi elements have always been there.

 

And he didn't have to be a chao. Why couldn't they have had him create the first chao, rather than being one himself?

 

Simple: they wanted him to be a Chao. Why does Chaos being a mutated Chao bother you so?

 

His ties to the emeralds are alive and well. If they weren't, then why would he be made of chaos energy?

 

I did say, "His ties to the Emeralds outside of transforming via them..."

 

And he didn't ascend to a higher plane, because we see him again in Sonic Battle.

 

As an optional boss in a game of dubious canonicitiy.

 

Again, I would like to stop discussing this and move on to a different match.

 

Fair enough.

 

So... how about Solaris (Mephiles and Iblis) vs. the Gaias. If they were to get into a fight for whatever reason, who would be the most likely to come out on top?

[Splash the Otter]

The main antagonist is an evil scientist who built a multitude of factories, airships and space stations. The sci-fi elements have always been there.

 

 

Simple: they wanted him to be a Chao. Why does Chaos being a mutated Chao bother you so?

 

 

I did say, "His ties to the Emeralds outside of transforming via them..."

 

 

As an optional boss in a game of dubious canonicitiy.

 

 

Fair enough.

 

So... how about Solaris (Mephiles and Iblis) vs. the Gaias. If they were to get into a fight for whatever reason, who would be the most likely to come out on top?

That's a tricky one. I'd say Gaia, since the Solaris in NextGen wasn't actually the Solaris but a sacred flame that became evil and crazy.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

And your argument for Chaos losing to a regular hedgehog is still invalid. The developers wanted to recreate the battle, but obviously couldn't give Sonic his Super form just yet. Thus, tor the purposes of this game (and this game only), Chaos was slightly nerfed. The same logic would apply if they had decided to have Sonic fight Gaia again.

No it isn't. I'm not even talking about what the developers intended, Perfect Chaos's advantage over Sonic in SA1 was that Sonic couldn't tread water back then and needed his superform to hover the water to fight him. Now Sonic can hydroplane, eliminating that weakness and allowing regular Sonic to fight Chaos on a different scale.

Had they did the same for Gaia, it wouldn't be any different either regardless of what the developers intended. Until they do that, however, we're stuck with what they gave us for both of them.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[Kuzu]

It isn't too far out the realm of possibility for Sonic to beat Chaos without his super form considering it retains it's weakness, his brain. All Sonic would have to do is dodge and make it to the brain, simple.

[Straw Hat]

It isn't too far out the realm of possibility for Sonic to beat Chaos without his super form considering it retains it's weakness, his brain. All Sonic would have to do is dodge and make it to the brain, simple.

So basically.... Generations...?

[Diogenes]

But it's stupid!

Doesn't matter.

Before they made that profile, Chaos provided an element of fantasy to the series by being a physical god. Now that he's just a glorified chao, he isn't that special anymore, and the fantasy elements are lost.

Yes because a squishy fairy creature growing into a powerful water spirit who wipes out an ancient civilization in grief after failing to protect his family and is sealed away until modern day...that's just so pedestrian.

And when you say "water spirit", you're implying that he was just a minor aquatic deity.

I made no claims as to his ranking among water spirits.

He's the god of the Chaos Emeralds,

Since when.

 

No it isn't. I'm not even talking about what the developers intended, Perfect Chaos's advantage over Sonic in SA1 was that Sonic couldn't tread water back then and needed his superform to hover the water to fight him. Now Sonic can hydroplane, eliminating that weakness and allowing regular Sonic to fight Chaos on a different scale.

That depends on how much stock you place into

I'd be willing to believe that regular Sonic shouldn't be able to defeat Perfect Chaos (though he may very well be able to damage him).

[Splash the Otter]

No it isn't. I'm not even talking about what the developers intended, Perfect Chaos's advantage over Sonic in SA1 was that Sonic couldn't tread water back then and needed his superform to hover the water to fight him. Now Sonic can hydroplane, eliminating that weakness and allowing regular Sonic to fight Chaos on a different scale.

Had they did the same for Gaia, it wouldn't be any different either regardless of what the developers intended. Until they do that, however, we're stuck with what they gave us for both of them.

So if Sonic had been able to hydroplane in SA1, the developers wouldn't have bothered with his Super Form? Bullshit! You're just trying to make Chaos seem weaker than he really is!

 

I will reiterate once more: let's stop talking about Chaos. I am sick to death of the subject. Just because my interpretation of him is different from yours doesn't mean it's wrong. To make it easier for us to move on, I'll just quote myself:

 

Here's a good one: Erazor Djinn vs. Merlina. Who would win?

[Diogenes]

Just because my interpretation of him is different from yours doesn't mean it's wrong.

Sometimes it does.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

That depends on how much stock you place into

I'd be willing to believe that regular Sonic shouldn't be able to defeat Perfect Chaos (though he may very well be able to damage him).

Well that becomes iffy when you consider that, in Generations, Perfect Chaos completely bypasses the use of the Chaos Emeralds that would require Sonic to neutralize the negative power of the Emeralds.

 

So if Sonic had been able to hydroplane in SA1, the developers wouldn't have bothered with his Super Form? Bullshit!

Once again, I'm not talking about what the developers would have bothered with.

 

And even if that were to be the case, they'd also have to work around the fact that Chaos had the negative energy in the Chaos Emeralds and would still be angry if that power wasn't neutralized.

You're just trying to make Chaos seem weaker than he really is!

Or implying that maybe Sonic himself has grown stronger over the years and picked up some new skills. And that in addition to that, some of his other foes are stronger than the previous ones.

 

Just because my interpretation of him is different from yours doesn't mean it's wrong. 

And I feel I need to address this after giving Diogenes's post a like: despite agreeing with what he said I don't recall ever saying that your interpretation of him was wrong.

Edited April 13, 2013 by ChaosSupremeSonîc

[NocturnalTwilight]

So I guess we're just dropping my whole Sonic VS Shadow question like 4 pages ago before you guys went crazy on some minor thing in Sonic Adventure 2? I see how it is, haha. JERKS!

 

Anyways, Dark Gaia VS Perfect Chaos? Dark Gaia by far, I don't even know how to explain it more than what others have said, he could just crack open part of the planet and burn Chaos. 

 

On the discussion of Final Hazard VS Perfect Chaos, I'd just like to throw out there that, this may not seem like a big thing, but if Sonic can go a few years and come back and beat Perfect Chaos without being Super Sonic, I think that just shows that Perfect Chaos isn't as powerful as we all think. I am referring to Generations. I'll just think to myself and ask why Sonic didn't do it Generations style in the first place, and answer myself saying that he didn't have the Booting technique yet. Pretty much I'm saying that Sonic has improved enough to beat Perfect Chaos without having to use the powers of the Chaos Emeralds. Now, if you think of Sonic fighting Final Hazard, first he'll be in space, and second he needed Shadow's help to beat him. Honestly, since Sonic and Shadow pretty much did the same kind of attacks and moves, I think Sonic could have easily taken Final Hazard by himself, still in Super Form though. 

 

I'm trying to say that I think it would still take Sonic's Super Form to beat Final Hazard, while Perfect Chaos wouldn't. I'm talking about in Sonic's current status. I'm using Sonic's ability to beat both the bosses to compare and see who would be harder to beat, resulting in the stronger enemy...is this like some sort of formula? Haha. I dunno, I'm just rambling on, guys. But I think Final Hazard would beat Perfect Chaos, enough said. 

[Emmett L. Brown]

I think that Perfect Chaos in Sonic Generations was just defeated...not neutralised. So he would've just regenerated back to full power afterwards. Fortunately, I think even though a lot of history is altered in Generations, everything goes back the way it was when the Time Eater is destroyed. So even though Generations showed that a non-Super can KO Perfect Chaos...it wouldn't be enough to knock him back to Chaos Zero.

 

And speaking of Chaos Zero, that guy is never destroyed at all. Perfect Chaos takes a Super Sonic to the face and all it does is remove his Chaos Emerald power-ups. Perfect Dark Gaia takes a Super Sonic to the face and dies violently (though I guess he might regenerate a million years in the future or something).

 

Yet even though Gaia has a more vulnerable weak point and Chaos may be immortal, I think Dark Gaia would win a battle between the two, due to being able to survive in an environment of liquid magma, which would instantly evaporate Perfect Chaos's liquid form. Unless the battle took place on or within the ocean, Gaia seems the more dangerous combatant.

 

Bottom line, I think Gaia would defeat Chaos but be unable to completely destroy him.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[Spin Attaxx]

So... how about Solaris (Mephiles and Iblis) vs. the Gaias. If they were to get into a fight for whatever reason, who would be the most likely to come out on top?

As much as I hate to admit it, Solaris would by virtue of retgonning the Gaias out of existance.

 

But considering Mephiles is the mind of Solaris, that would likely mean that Solaris would take THE most complicated and idiotic route possible, so...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

Yet even though Gaia has a more vulnerable weak point and Chaos may be immortal, I think Dark Gaia would win a battle between the two, due to being able to survive in an environment of liquid magma, which would instantly evaporate Perfect Chaos's liquid form. Unless the battle took place on or within the ocean, Gaia seems the more dangerous combatant.

I don't think an ocean can stop Gaia considering that he can pretty much part them away by splitting the world into pieces.

[Mysterious X]

New round:

 

Amy Rose Vs. Rose Rascal.

 

Go!

[Splash the Otter]

New round:

 

Amy Rose Vs. Rose Rascal.

 

Go!

Wouldn't that be a tie, since they're the same person?

[Mysterious X]

It's similar to Sonic Vs. Classic Sonic, would that be a tie? (Yes.)

 

I'm trying to settle everything down, I read about the last 2 pages, there's like, 4 or 5 ever ending arguments, so I'm gonna wipe all that out and start with something new.

 

Espio Vs. Knuckles.

 

They are two of my favorites, so who should possibly win? The ninja power? Or the... Echidna power..?

 

Espio has elements of a ninja, such as agility and speed, and fairly wisdom, while Knuckles has obviously much more physical power, and can glide in the air and dig some areas.

So by giving it an overview, I find that Knuckles is mostly depending on his power, while Espio depends more on his mind, and proceeds with caution.

Espio have special abilities like cloaking (stealth, invisibility, you name it), and he can summon (from his own alternate space) numerous ninja weapons and tools at ease, but I doubt that being stealthy will work on Knuckles, not to mention that Knuckles has the Master Emerald by his side.

 

So, who has better chances to win?

[Emmett L. Brown]

I'm trying to settle everything down, I read about the last 2 pages, there's like, 4 or 5 ever ending arguments, so I'm gonna wipe all that out and start with something new.

Who made you the boss of this thread? Your special move "Chain Quote Combo" isn't even all that original. I say you're just a pallette swap. ChaosSupremeSonic is totally higher tier than you.

 

Now to talk about whatever you want because you're the boss, man.

 

ROSY vs AMY: Rosy the Rascal is a higher tier opponent than Knuckles in Sonic the Fighter's campaign mode. This clearly proves that she's stronger than Knuckles who is supposed to be one of the strongest characters in the series. We must bow before her awesome power, and hold our merriment at her ridiculous Minnie Mouse outfit lest she destroy us all. Rosy is the god-mode, the pinnackle of all warriors! Amy doesn't have a chance. [/this is a joke]

 

ESPIO vs KNUCKLES: Knuckles is more of a straight-up fighter, but if he was able to use his cool Emerald-sensing abilities to track an invisible Espio, then they might be more evenly matched. If not, then just being able to turn invisible and having shurikens for a ranged attack gives Espio a clear advantage. [/this is not a joke]

 

 

 

Now quick! Ya'll better post before Mysterious X decides to change up the topic again.

Edited April 13, 2013 by Emmett L. Brown

[Mysterious X]

Who made you the boss of this thread? Your special move "Chain Quote Combo" isn't even all that original. I say you're just a pallette swap. ChaosSupremeSonic is totally higher tier than you.

 

Now to talk about whatever you want because you're the boss, man.

 

Now quick! Ya'll better post before Mysterious X decides to change up the topic again.

 

I'm really sorry, I didn't mean to act like that in anyway, but it's everyone's job to make everything look okay, I'm a member like any of you.

I haven't seen any type of attempt to bring the thread on topic (The Sonic Vs. Thread) by any of your 'higher tier' friends.

 

ESPIO vs KNUCKLES: Knuckles is more of a straight-up fighter, but if he was able to use his cool Emerald-sensing abilities to track an invisible Espio, then they might be more evenly matched. If not, then just being able to turn invisible and having shurikens for a ranged attack gives Espio a clear advantage. [/this is not a joke]

 

I think that too.

[Splash the Otter]

Who made you the boss of this thread? Your special move "Chain Quote Combo" isn't even all that original. I say you're just a pallette swap. ChaosSupremeSonic is totally higher tier than you.

You don't have to be so rude. Mysterious X has a perfectly valid point anyway.