Popular and unpopular Sonic opinions you agree and disagree with!

[hangarninetysix]

This is you pretty much saying that you see no problem with Turn 10 throwing in supersonic jets in a car racing sim, vehicles which are ridiculously faster than any existing car to the point of making the actual game of Forza as we know it pointless, as well as missing the point that jets do not even belong in the game in the first place. You said this was perfectly fine because you could "choose to have a car," completely missing my point and implying that a game being imbalanced to the point of undermining its own design is okay so long as you have some "choices" in the matter to either play as the gimped car or with obvious choice of the jet plane. You are literally advocating this sort of stuff with your argument as you are currently wording it.

And let's not talk about me being "offended" when you're the one who's been completely intolerant for any sort of linearity in a game to the point of saying the stuff that I've parsed from your post.

Well, I don't know what to say. Do you always take the same path when you play Sonic 3? Maybe you'd like not having choice. I'd think you'd be the odd gamer out though. Whenever I play through it, I like to go ways I haven't gone before, or at least haven't gone in a while. The gameplay is still good whichever route I take, so I like it. The game could be perfectly linear, and have the same good gameplay, and I'd still like it, just not as much as if i had other routes to explore and such. It doesn't hurt the game balance either. It's quite a simple stance. And you've made it quite clear you disagree. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Edited November 6, 2012 by hangarninetysix

[-blank-]

Do you always take the same path when you play Sonic 3?

.....I don't know about her, but I do....

[Nepenthe]

I do take the same paths when I play Sonic 3 actually.

As for my actual stance, a game's exploration has to be significant element in the overall design to the point that it's not optional to ignore in order to understand the full breadth of actual content, whether it's forced on you by design (ShtH) or simply offers significant rewards for doing so in the form of collectibles or being contributive to the world building at hand (Unleashed). Classic level design offers neither for me. There's nothing to see or find on alternate paths except for more rings and the same art tiles you'd see anywhere else (and just before it's argued, I don't care about Super Sonic and wish he'd stop being the end-game reward; more levels to play please), nor are they relevant to the overall narrative or world with the game. They're there just because; something to screw around in if you're into that sort of thing, I guess. But I consider this wasted design space, a veritable flaw of the games, and would rather exploration be used more significantly and interestingly than "hey guys, look what we did here."

[hangarninetysix]

I do take the same paths when I play Sonic 3 actually.

As for my actual stance, a game's exploration has to be significant element in the overall design to the point that it's not optional to ignore in order to understand the full breadth of actual content, whether it's forced on you by design (ShtH) or simply offers significant rewards for doing so in the form of collectibles or being contributive to the world building at hand (Unleashed). Classic level design offers neither for me. There's nothing to see or find on alternate paths except for more rings and the same art tiles you'd see anywhere else (and just before it's argued, I don't care about Super Sonic and wish he'd stop being the end-game reward; more levels to play please), nor are they relevant to the overall narrative or world with the game. They're there just because; something to screw around in if you're into that sort of thing, I guess. But I consider this wasted design space, a veritable flaw of the games, and would rather exploration be used more significantly and interestingly than "hey guys, look what we did here."

That's all there is in all the levels. A bunch of the same art tiles per zone with rings, enemies, interactive elements and the such. Does the length of the levels in S3 bother you? ( This is not a rhetorical question, I'm genuinely interested in your viewpoint here. )

Edited November 6, 2012 by hangarninetysix

[Nepenthe]

Angel Island does not look like, nor is designed like, nor sounds like Hydrocity which does not look like, nor is designed like, nor sounds like Marble Garden and so on and so forth. They're completely different levels entirely, so it's inherently interesting to go from one level to the next. However, within Angel Island, the various paths that there may be there to take aren't all that interesting. A bit of water there, some rings there, maybe a life or two; this is all stuff I can gather and see on the main path, so why would I waste my ten-minute time limit screwing around looking for stuff I don't even really want much less am in dire straits for (and speaking of which, why is it that series of games that prided themselves on exploration have a time limit?)

But to answer your question, no the length of the levels in S3 doesn't bother me.

[hangarninetysix]

Angel Island does not look like, nor is designed like, nor sounds like Hydrocity which does not look like, nor is designed like, nor sounds like Marble Garden and so on and so forth. They're completely different levels entirely, so it's inherently interesting to go from one level to the next. However, within Angel Island, the various paths that there may be there to take aren't all that interesting. A bit of water there, some rings there, maybe a life or two; this is all stuff I can gather and see on the main path, so why would I waste my ten-minute time limit screwing around looking for stuff I don't even really want much less am in dire straits for (and speaking of which, why is it that series of games that prided themselves on exploration have a time limit?)

But to answer your question, no the length of the levels in S3 doesn't bother me.

But isn't the second half of the level usually just more of the same stuff you've seen in the first half of the level? What makes that more interesting for you than a path that is off the most obvious one?

[Nepenthe]

Different music, parts of level design unique onto each act, different gimmickry to partake in that defines each act a bit better, mini and major bosses to face, and the general act and feel of progressing towards the climax of the game with the intent of actually beating it. With the exception of level design, you get none of the rest of this by fooling about in the same place.

[DarkDefeater]

Personally, I like to take different routes through Sonic 3 depending on which mood I'm in. Recently, I have been playing Sonic 3. At times I've been taking the fastest routes, which are the routes I normally take. At other times, I've been trying to explore every corner of the level, usually as tails or knuckles.

Sometimes, I really do like to slow down and explore, even in a sonic game. And other times, I take the route I'm most familiar with and go as fast as I can. So I definitely agree with hangarninetysix about the beauty of multiple routes. It may be more of the same, same pixles and artwork ,etc. But there' something compelling about knowing every nook and cranny of a level.

As for the general topic at hand, an unpopular viewpoint I have is...I like Shadow the Hedgehog, the game. I like the gameplay, and I can even take most of the story seriously. The games and story have their flaws certainly, but I really like the game and the story. Yeah, that viewpoint is not popular, but that is how I feel.

Edited November 6, 2012 by DarkDefeater

[tenchibr]

I believe the reason why Sonic's time limit was enforced at first was because there was no way to save the game, and to encourage completion of the game in a sitting, they would force you to hurry up and get it done.

[hangarninetysix]

Different music, parts of level design unique onto each act, different gimmickry to partake in that defines each act a bit better, mini and major bosses to face, and the general act and feel of progressing towards the climax of the game with the intent of actually beating it. With the exception of level design, you get none of the rest of this by fooling about in the same place.

Isn't it just good then that you have the choice to skip it? Instead, were it linear, you'd be forced to pace through all these locations and it doesn't sound like you're the kind of player to enjoy that, unless the content were simply removed.

[Nepenthe]

Why would I want to skip entire levels just because I don't care for exploring the alternate routes of those levels?

[hangarninetysix]

Why would I want to skip entire levels just because I don't care for exploring the alternate routes of those levels?

Were it linear rather than nonlinear, you wouldn't have the choice to skip these alternate routes you don't care for, they wouldn't be alternate at all in a linear game. They'd just be placed in the linear sequence of gameplay so you'd have to go through them or not progress at all. (Unless of course, these entire sections were simply removed from the game).

Personally, I like to take different routes through Sonic 3 depending on which mood I'm in. Recently, I have been playing Sonic 3. At times I've been taking the fastest routes, which are the routes I normally take. At other times, I've been trying to explore every corner of the level, usually as tails or knuckles.

I'm like that too. I used to try and take the route to get the chaos / super emeralds the fastest, but lately I've been trying to find the routes to give the highest scores and best times.

Edited November 6, 2012 by hangarninetysix

[Nepenthe]

Any game that somehow manages to make alternate routes absolutely mandatory for basic completion of the overall campaign is more than likely going to tie them into the whole design of the game and make them more entertaining than they would be otherwise, thus I wouldn't mind them. This is what ShtH essentially did, and for the record I liked the idea of branching pathways leading to entirely new stories and stages to play. That's a whole lot more interesting than any other exploratory Sonic game before or since: My unpopular opinion for the day.

Edited November 6, 2012 by Nepenthe

[Alice Twilight]

Any game that somehow manages to make alternate routes absolutely mandatory for basic completion of the overall campaign is more than likely going to tie them into the whole design of the game and make them more entertaining than they would be otherwise, thus I wouldn't mind them. This is what ShtH essentially did, and for the record I liked the idea of branching pathways leading to entirely new stories and stages to play. That's a whole lot more interesting than any other exploratory Sonic game before or since: My unpopular opinion for the day.

That's a great opinion.

[SenEDDtor Missile]

I found Shadow the Hedgehog STRANGELY satisfying to play, in spite of its stiff controls, the wonky spindash, and the general eye-rolling emphasis on uber seriousness.

OH, and this is my 1000th POST. Yay.

[Dr. Crusher]

Here's one that's half-and-half: I don't have some sort of ironic appreciation for Sonic 06 for being "so bad it's good", or want to play it just to "relive the experience", nor am I one of those people who want SEGA/Sonic Team to "remake the game because of it's potential", be it relating to gameplay, story or whatever. I genuinely dislike Sonic 06 and it's six year-gathering "popularity", and I wish it could just... go away. Forever.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Alice Twilight]

Sonic is a cool guy.

Here's one that's half-and-half: I don't have some sort of ironic appreciation for Sonic 06 for being "so bad it's good", or want to play it just to "relive the experience", nor am I one of those people who want SEGA/Sonic Team to "remake the game because of it's potential", be it relating to gameplay, story or whatever. I genuinely dislike Sonic 06 and it's six year-gathering "popularity", and I wish it could just... go away. Forever.

It wiped itself from the Sonic canon and rebooted itself so technically it did.

Edited November 7, 2012 by NISA

[iDEATH]

I believe the reason why Sonic's time limit was enforced at first was because there was no way to save the game, and to encourage completion of the game in a sitting, they would force you to hurry up and get it done.

That's pretty cool, didn't know that. Of course....if they hadn't filled an 8th of the cart with the sega k=jingle they could have maybe included a password system

As for me, I disagree with the idea that labyrinth in a completely awful game without merit. I found it to be quite an enjoyable, playable game. Yes there's no speed but as has already been argued in this thread Sonic isn't and shouldn't be all about speed. Personally I found it good to see sega trying something different from the norm.

I can't help but get the idea that most of the people bashing the game as "OMG BUT SAWNIC NO FAST" probably haven't played it.

[Dr. Crusher]

It wiped itself from the Sonic canon and rebooted itself so technically it did.

Argh, you know what I meant. Six years for the more rabid/elitist haters to quickly pull the 06 card for any defense for the Sonic series, defending the game's story/bosses/etc being "epic", more fuel to the Sonic Adventure 3 fire, Mephiles' existence, and so on. Drives me nuts, all of it.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Dr. Crusher

[Alice Twilight]

Argh, you know what I meant. Six years for the more rabid/elitist haters to quickly pull the 06 card for any defense for the Sonic series, defending the game's story/bosses/etc being "epic", more fuel to the Sonic Adventure 3 fire, Mephiles' existence, and so on. Drives me nuts, all of it.

I know I was just teasing.

It annoys me too, when like reviewers give Sonic games a bad score just because of 06.

You know, how they'll show a fahnny clip of Sonic walking around a loop most the time.

It's annoying, just get over it.

[Vertekins]

I would consider this a fairly popular opinion considering how apparently people are in agreement with me when I state it; Sonic Chronicles is a terrible game.

I'll just leave this here, the second opinion I write for Concept:"Mobius" Games Relation page;

Sonic Chronicles: Second Opinion (By Verte)

Hoo boy. Where to start?

I humbly consider this to be the worst Sonic game in existence. Yes, even worse than the ’06 travesty. Ok, ok. You can voice your criticisms of ’06 and I’ll, in all likelihood, agree with you if your points have real merit and truth because that game had serious issues by the barrelful both conceptually and in execution but I’ll give it one thing – It had production values where its soundtrack and CGI sequences were concerned.

Chronicles had ‘06’s problems and more. It’s a butt-ugly game from top to bottom. It’s problems include poorly-programmed, a buggy and amazingly annoying battle system which has no real sense of balance amongst the playable characters, lack of true interaction in the overworld by delegating character actions to simple button-pressing, which has too many dictations regarding who you are to play as rather than who you want to play as, a continuity-scrambling mess of a story that is poorly-researched and has derailment of character’s personalities and exaggeration of said personalities and mannerisms left, right and center, without a doubt the worst soundtrack in the history of the franchise with equally awful sound effects and overall visual half-assery and ugliness with some of the worst models ever seen in the series and 2D drawn visuals that have such large amounts of dither and a lack of anti-aliasing that it makes you wonder if the individual graphics were saved as gifs in MS Paint.

All of these aspects come together to make a truly awful gaming experience that is very rounded in its overall badness.

Practically everything about this game screams “half-assed”. The game isn’t a proclamation of Bioware’s love and respect for the franchise. It’s a poorly cobbled-together mess of a game released in the interests of making a quick buck by an inexperienced studio that had only recently moved into the realm of developing games for handheld systems and which was overtaken by EA during development.

I think the biggest “wow factor” of this game isn’t it’s badness but the fact that it got consistently high scores in the press and was exalted for its “realistic” and “likeable” writing of the characters. If anything, this truly proves to me at least that the gaming media and press simply have no idea how to fairly rate a Sonic game in a review and that they truly have no real grasp of what constitutes good writing of the characters.

GAMER'S PERSPECTIVE:

Replay Value? If you’re a completionist, you’ll likely find a bit of entertainment in attaining every Chao, Ring and item. There isn’t a lot of incentive to do so however. So I imagine that most players will put it down after the first playthrough and never touch it again.

Graphics? Overwhelmingly horrendous. The overworld visuals could be well-drawn but this is frequently offset by incredibly ugly models and minimal animation, making it look all quite static and lifeless. The models, as stated before, are ugly and look deformed with oversized irises and low polygon counts. Drawn visuals such as those for items and mugshots look dithery and have ugly pixelly white borders, showing the lack of anti-aliasing. In-battle effects look pixelly and low-res.

Music and Sound Effects? Without a shadow of a doubt the worst score I have ever heard in any videogame let alone a Sonic game. The soundtrack includes warbly remixes of classic songs from the series’ past complete with weedy instrumentation and off notes and the sound effects sound distorted and incredibly cheap. Some are clearly used to imitate vocalization and the result sounds thoroughly terrible. Tails sounds like he’s been sucking helium when he gets struck in a battle and Big sounds like he’s vomiting when he gets struck in a battle. And need I mention the infamous sound that Shadow makes when Sonic confronts him in the Mystic Ruins?

Gobble gobble.

Storyline? Seriously messed-up characterization and exaggerated mannerisms? Check! Blatant disregard for established game canon and continuity? Check! What really gets me about this game’s story is how much disregard it has for things that have been firmly established in the past and its perceptible pretentiousness in how it goes about it. What I also found to be unsettling was the way the characters were actively gunning for Eggman’s death in the opening movie and how they even show concern later on in the game at the prospect of his survival. Sonic’s character got absolutely slaughtered through the dialogue choices painting him as a spitefully bully of an individual who has more in common with his Fleetway Sonic the Comic portrayal than his game portrayal. The thing is, it is never a good idea to make a dialogue tree with such extremes of dialogue choices for a character with an already well established personality and set of mannerisms.

OVERALL RANK? I give Sonic Chronicles a D …and that is being generous.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Vertekins

[Semi-colon e]

I really hate Chronicles too. Not because of the whole character shit, I didn't get far enough in for it to bother me (though it seemed to not matter whether you were a dick or not, you might as well just ignore the choices). But it is just so badly presented. I got to that ice switch puzzle and gave up because it was so boring. Why did we need to move with the stylus? Why are the sound effects so shit? Why is the music so bad? Why is nothing impressive? Why is Big just like "HURHUR, RANDOM STATEMENT"? Why? What? Why?

At least I finished 06. And while 06 is technically more horrendous in terms of quality, at least it's bad moments that aren't frustrating glitches are sometimes stupid story moments that are funny. At least it has a beautiful soundtrack.

And everyone was so sure Chronicles was gonna be amazing because "it's Bioware", but they just shoved the new guys on it anyway, they didn't even care. Nobody cared. It also tried to be a mix of JRPG and WRPG - I don't really play WRPGs but I know they're generally more about choices and customisation but it means nothing when the JRPG nature of it makes it so linear you may as well not bother.

[Your Vest Friend]

Unpopular opinion; As much as I dislike Chronicles too, I don't put the blame solely on BioWare. Looking at things like the concept art and quips thrown around before the release, combined with the music that is frankly laughable even on a Mega Drive, I think part of the reason it turned out so badly was because of EA forcing their hand when they bought BioWare out. Nobody can put out music like that out and say that it was 100% complete, not when there are a handful of original tunes that sound far more like something suitable for that system.

[Vertekins]

Unpopular opinion; As much as I dislike Chronicles too, I don't put the blame solely on BioWare. Looking at things like the concept art and quips thrown around before the release, combined with the music that is frankly laughable even on a Mega Drive, I think part of the reason it turned out so badly was because of EA forcing their hand when they bought BioWare out. Nobody can put out music like that out and say that it was 100% complete, not when there are a handful of original tunes that sound far more like something suitable for that system.

From what I've heard, it was either issues with copyright, the loss of parts of Richard Jaques compositions and putting the incomplete compositions in the game anyway, rushing the soundtrack because it was incomplete or simply downloading fan-made midi's from the Internet and using those. I don't know which one of these are true however.

[Your Vest Friend]

I sort of question some of those theories. For one thing (aimed at #4), after 4 years, wouldn't there be a source for the midis if they were taken off the internet? Or at least someone somewhere would have claimed to have made them? For another (aimed at #1 and partially #2), as far as I know Green Hill in the game is a completely original composition. A terrible one, but original nonetheless. Why would that of all stages be the only one which was meant to have original music when it is the prime target for musical homages? The rushing part sounds most likely to me, given that the graphics look sloppy and rushed as well and the fact that we know that a lot of content had to be cut from the final product.