Super Mario Galaxy 2

[PSI Wind]

^ If you mean replace the star launchers with ramps & involving a certain blue hedgehog then yes, that does sound familiar.

[speedfreak]

Anyone hoping Galaxy 2 or NSMBWii would have a deeper story is going to be disappointed.

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/

I really dislike the cake idea for capturing Peach. :/ It makes her sound like a complete airhead. It comes off as way too goofy IMO.

Anyway I don't want a shit ton of cut scenes bogging down the gameplay in Mario either, but I hope they at least have an awesome cinematic opening/ending ala Galaxy 1. I could do without the story book segments (even though I did enjoy them) but I like a good setup/ending. Even though Galaxy 1 wasn't a story telling master piece I felt it still managed to give off an "epic" feeling with it's cinematic opening scene and I would be pretty disappointed if the second didn't at least try to recapture that feeling.

Compare the opening of Galaxy to the opening of New Super Mario Bros DS. Both are the same basic setup, Peach is taken, but Galaxy does it in a MUCH more interesting way IMO. I just don't want to see Galaxy 2 lose the feeling that the first one had.

Galaxy Opening

NSMB Opening

Either way I'll love the game but I don't think asking for a decent opening/ending is too much. Miyamoto sure seems pretty stubborn about certain things though.

[SuperLink]

Loads of people disagree with this, but I firmly believe:

Great platformer with great story > Great platformer.

I really like Peach as a character, so the amoung of respect she gets in the "story" is a little... lame. It's better in the Paper Mario games though. Still, look how much ass she kicks in Smash Bros!

I'm very annoyed with Miyamoto's attitude to plot. It feels too traditional/backward and although I completely agree that Mario doesn't need a story, I think it would benefit from even a simple one. Galaxy's was simple, as far as game plots go, and Miyamoto thought it was too deep? It just makes me worry about what he'll do with the Zelda series....

[PSI Wind]

At least the Gameplays fun, thats fine . Besides, Sonic has a crappy storyline as well. Generic "Whoops, (Eggman released) a monster, goes haywire, Super Sonic kills it, THE END".

[Toby]

Sometimes I just wish that man would retire.

[SuperLink]

At least the Gameplays fun, thats fine . Besides, Sonic has a crappy storyline as well. Generic "Whoops, (Eggman released) a monster, goes haywire, Super Sonic kills it, THE END".

Sonic's story is (arguably) bad because the developers are bad. Mario's story would probably be pretty awesome. I can't remember if Nintendo has actually ever tried to make a really good story, so they might be really good at it but not know!

Sometimes I just wish that man would retire.

Dun' w'ry, they're "grooming his replacement" apparantly.

[Phos]

Sonic's story is (arguably) bad because the developers are bad. Mario's story would probably be pretty awesome. I can't remember if Nintendo has actually ever tried to make a really good story, so they might be really good at it but not know!

(The bit about the story starts a few minutes in).

[SuperLink]

I've seen that before. Game Overthinker is good sometimes, but he really Overthunk that one.

Miyamoto has no respect for Peach if he thinks she's gonna fall for a cake.

[speedfreak]

I'd love to see a Mario platformer with a story similar to the Paper Mario or Mario & Luigi titles. I'll never understand why some people bitch about story when the option of skipping it is there. However, I don't need a RPG worthy story but it would be nice if Galaxy 2 is equal to Galaxy 1 in terms of story depth. Judging from that interview that's not the case though. I'm fine if they drop the whole secret story book back story thing Galaxy had going, but I don't want the set up to be Mario and Peach walking along and then all the sudden Bowser runs by and grabs her and then flies away. I think the opening and ending for games are important to get you motivated to start and leave you feeling satisfied upon completion.

Just so no wars start, YES, the gameplay is the main thing. YES, I will love this game either way. I just would love it more if it delivers that sense of importance that the first Galaxy delivered. It really felt like Mario was saving the day in Galaxy, it wasn't just "Oh that wacky old Mr. Bowser is up to his schemes again."

[SuperLink]

Completely agree with speedfreak (we seem to think the same way on the matter)

If story is optional, why not just have it there for people who want it? If it's skippable then there is absolutely nothing to complain about! Personally I was disappointed that Miyamoto pulled out half of Rosalina's backstory and her potential relation to Peach. I did enjoy the storybook the first way though.

Story gives the gamer something to look forward to, especially when the gameplay is a little... tedious? Like some of those puzzle stages in Galaxy. I mean they weren't mandatory, they were usually part of the secret stages. HOWEVER if the game had a good cutscene to look forward to and it was mandatory, I would be even more willing to give the challenge my all the first time to be rewarded with another bit of story.

Know what I mean?

EDIT: After watching that GameOverthinker video again though, I remember how much I used to like him... I really don't like his recent stuff, it just seems like generic ranting. The earlier stuff really did make you think though.

Edited June 13, 2009 by SuperLink

[speedfreak]

Yeah I feel the same way. I wouldn't want story in Mario to equal Metal Gear or anything, but having an interesting story makes a game a lot more enjoyable.............for me at least.

Unfortunately Miyamoto seems to be very, very stubborn when it comes to things like story or voice acting in certain games. I know he's the creator of these characters but sometimes I think his stubborn ways hold games back from being even better.

[Conando]

Loads of people disagree with this, but I firmly believe:

Great platformer with great story > Great platformer.

I really like Peach as a character, so the amoung of respect she gets in the "story" is a little... lame. It's better in the Paper Mario games though. Still, look how much ass she kicks in Smash Bros!

I'm very annoyed with Miyamoto's attitude to plot. It feels too traditional/backward and although I completely agree that Mario doesn't need a story, I think it would benefit from even a simple one. Galaxy's was simple, as far as game plots go, and Miyamoto thought it was too deep? It just makes me worry about what he'll do with the Zelda series....

Didn't he say Zelda is the series that is supposed to be focused on story in the article? :|

[Remy]

Mario isn't the kind of game to have an epic story, not every platformer has to have a plot to the extent of Sonic Adventure 2.

It's fine how it is, IMO. Anything to complicated would ruin it

[SuperStingray]

Mario isn't the kind of game to have an epic story, not every platformer has to have a plot to the extent of Sonic Adventure 2.

It's fine how it is, IMO. Anything to complicated would ruin it

Yeah, SA2 is probably as far as one should get. I love intricate narratives, but Mario (RPGs aside) is really just a series that relies on simplicity.

[Remy]

Exactly. It's whole appeal is the laid back simplicity of it all

[Conando]

Mario isn't the kind of game to have an epic story, not every platformer has to have a plot to the extent of Sonic Adventure 2.

It's fine how it is, IMO. Anything to complicated would ruin it

And that's probably why Miyamoto wants to keep things to a minimum. Honestly, the Rosalina thing in Galaxy seemed out of place.

[speedfreak]

I honestly don't really need or expect a big plot for a Mario game. At least not for a Mario platformer. However I would like for the opening and ending of the game to be as cinematic as the first. Everything in the middle can be nothing but gameplay. I don't want a lame type of setup to the game like that stupid cake trap idea.

I honestly think we will still get a cool scene in the beginning though. They have to at least show Peach being taken, explain why it's in space again, and show how Luma rejoins Mario.

[SuperLink]

How about Sunshine's story? I thought that was perfect, maybe even a little too much for a Mario game.

On first appearances, the protagonist is Shadow Mario, which is a first. Then we find out he's Bowser's son, Bowser Jr, and that he thinks Peach is his mama. Why? We want to find out. Then at the end, we find out Bowser was behind it all. Now, very predictable plot twist, but a plot twist nonetheless, in a MARIO game. Personally I thought it was great for Mario, and I'm sure the kids liked it a lot too. A light hearted and silly story that doesn't take much to understand, but one that actually progresses the Mario universe, Sunshine permanently introduced Jr to the mainseries games, possibly as Bowser's true heir.

[SuperStingray]

And that's probably why Miyamoto wants to keep things to a minimum. Honestly, the Rosalina thing in Galaxy seemed out of place.

I don't know about that. It was optional and very subtle and it provided background should the player want to see it.

A light hearted and silly story that doesn't take much to understand, but one that actually progresses the Mario universe, Sunshine permanently introduced Jr to the mainseries games, possibly as Bowser's true heir.

Jr.'s actually rather controversial since he stole the position of the koopalings. Fortunately, they're coming back for NSMBWii. Edited June 15, 2009 by Mantyke

[Random Rhyme]

Jr.'s actually rather controversial since he stole the position of the koopalings. Fortunately, they're coming back for NSMBWii.

I'm interested in Jr's relationship to the Koopalings.

[Remy]

Miyamoto agrees with me, lol

http://www.wired.com/gamelife/2009/06/super-mario-galaxy-2/

I just feel that the Mario games are something that should be a much more bright and active experience. [...] With the Mario games, you don

[SuperLink]

I'm interested in Jr's relationship to the Koopalings.

Me too. Perhaps one of the things I want most from a Mario game is to see how the Koopalings react to Bowser Jr stealing their throne. More character interactions.

Miyamoto agrees with me, lol Peach apparently seriously likes cake, too.

That's the interview we started the debate with I guess me and speedfreak just disagree with Miyamoto. I think his view on game plots are backwards and too traditional. Also he clearly has no respect at all for Peach.

Can I state for the record, that I really liked the story book segments in galaxy. nice and unobtrusive and actually fairly well written

I agree, I think optional story is a great idea for those who want it, because those who don't won't have to put up with cutscenes, and those who do have something to look forward to, and I definitely remember looking forward to hearing about Rosalina's past.

So I hope Mr Miyamoto considers it again in the future.

Edited June 15, 2009 by SuperLink

[Patticus]

That's the interview we started the debate with I guess me and speedfreak just disagree with Miyamoto. I think his view on game plots are backwards and too traditional. Also he clearly has no respect at all for Peach.

If the likes of you were in charge, would we get "epic plotz" like Sonic has been shoehorned into?

[SuperLink]

If the likes of you were in charge, would we get "epic plotz" like Sonic has been shoehorned into?

I'm no story teller, but as I've said before I'm sure if Nintendo's gameplay is anything to go by then they would take far more care with Mario's story than Sonic Team do with Sonic's.

As long as gameplay isn't sacraficed for story (as it may well be with Sonic) then there's nothing wrong with it.

Edited June 15, 2009 by SuperLink

[Remy]

Programming and writing a story are no where near the same thing.

Does EAD even have a writer in their employ?