Zelda Topic

[Mangoaxe5]

Twilight Princess, on the other hand, is so much about Midna. She's the real star of most of the cutscenes, and most of the things you do in the story- including your entire reason for beating the dungeons- was as a means to her end.

And is this really a bad thing? Midna gets a lot of screentime in Twilight Princess because newsflash she is the Twilight Princess. Nintendo wanted to try something new in Twilight Princess and I think that storywise it payed off at the end of the game.

I know that some people think that she stole the spotlight from Princess Zelda in TP but I enjoyed that Zelda had a lesser but still important role in the game. Zelda may not have had as much spotlight but the story still told us a lot about her personality in the cutscenes where we did see her.

[Wraith]

\I know that some people think that she stole the spotlight from Princess Zelda in TP but I enjoyed that Zelda had a lesser but still important role in the game. Zelda may not have had as much spotlight but the story still told us a lot about her personality in the cutscenes where we did see her.

You main they told us that she doesn't have a personality? Yeah, I see what you mean.

Edited September 1, 2012 by Waterwraith

[Diogenes]

You know TP gets a lot of flak for stuff that Majora's Mask just gets away with scot-free. Not enough Zelda-involvement, Link basically being there while the story focuses on other characters more... I mean yeah MM did it all slightly better but still.

Slightly?

Honestly I don't have all that much problem with either of those points, but I think they're both much better in MM. Zelda not being in MM much is fine because the story really isn't about her, at all, and thus she is literally not even in it aside from a single flashback. TP on the other hand acts like she's a major element but she just kind of stops existing for long stretches of time (honestly, I have the same complaint with WW, after the reveal that Tetra is Zelda; she goes from a major force in the plot to just sitting in the basement until the endgame). And MM isn't really about developing its Link because OoT already did that, leaving the game to be about the people he meets and his effect on them. TP has a new Link going out on a journey for the first time, and they make some attempt to characterize him early on, but then they kind of forget and he just becomes a sword that carries Midna around. I guess the whole restoring Ilia's memory thing kind of counts, except I never actually gave a shit about her, her memory, or her relationship with Link, so.

And is this really a bad thing? Midna gets a lot of screentime in Twilight Princess because newsflash she is the Twilight Princess. Nintendo wanted to try something new in Twilight Princess and I think that storywise it payed off at the end of the game.

Only for Midna, everyone else kinda got screwed.

[Mangoaxe5]

You main they told us that she doesn't have a personality? Yeah, I see what you mean.

Actions speak louder for words. In TP we see Zelda surrender to Zant to save her people. And later we see her give up her lifeforce to save Midna.

These cutscenes tell us a lot about Zelda's personality. We see that she thinks of others before herself.

[Wraith]

Actions speak louder for words. In TP we see Zelda surrender to Zant to save her people. And later we see her give up her lifeforce to save Midna.

These cutscenes tell us a lot about Zelda's personality. We see that she thinks of others before herself.

And....?

Zelda's kinda flat in this game. Yeah, she's selfless, but what else is in there? She doesn't have any defining traits, and that's kinda disappointing, considering right before this we had Tetra.

[Mangoaxe5]

One of the best songs in the whole series.

[Soniman]

Zelda being selfless is kinda a basic perquisite to give her character anyway.

[VO.SUPER]

You know what I would like to see, a Zelda game where Zelda's the villain. Demise corrupts her with his curse and in turn, Ganondorf is free from his curse.

Zelda's Triforce of Wisdom would be interesting for having a villain mostly based on intelligence and cunning vs Ganon's raw power.

[Diogenes]

Zelda being selfless is kinda a basic perquisite to give her character anyway.

I liked when she was a pirate.

[Soniman]

Notice I said Zelda, not Tetra

Edited September 1, 2012 by Soniman

[Diogenes]

Same thing.

[Soniman]

Well...she wasn't an evil pirate.

[JezMM]

Well you all made pretty good points about MM vs TP. I still love TP but I can hardly argue because I love MM ten times more lol.

Skyward Sword had a Zelda I actually gave two shits about, it made the journey to save her feel a lot more poignant. Twilight Princess literally gave me no reason at all to care, I'm just saving her because that's what the game told me to do.

Eh, for me 2 hours of character development at the very start of the game wasn't enough. I honestly thought that after the second dungeon or so they'd give up the whole "always just out of your reach" thing but that subversion of a typical Nintendo plot never came. The entire opening act is all about this close relationship the two of you have, and then they throw it all out by having you split up for the rest of the game. By the time we FINALLY reached Zelda (just to have her become imprisoned in the crystal thing) I had all but stopped caring about the romantic relationship Link, and by extension we as the player were supposed to have.

After the opening of spending all this peaceful, "normal life" time with her I wanted nothing more than to spend time with her in more dire situations as the story unfolded, and work together, but that never came. Instead I got a morsel of story after each dungeon, a slightly more interesting morsel every third dungeon, and frankly a much closer relationship with Groose who to be honest I hadn't really forgiven for being a jerk at the start of the game until the very end, so I was still always a bit "ehh" about that.

And then Fi decides to be all "OH SUDDENLY HAVING EMOTIONS FOR THE SAKE OF HEARTFELT FAREWELL" and Impa having two heartfelt farewells in a row which was just awkward and...

Argh. I really really hate Skyward Sword's story.

Edited September 1, 2012 by JezMM

[lounge]

I know I complained a lot about TP, but I really, really didn't like Zelda in that game. Her dull, unattractive face, her personality. She didn't really show any love or affection for Link either. I like the idea of the princess showing some kind of affection toward the hero. Like the kiss in Mario 64. I always loved that as a kid because he so well deserved that.

[Soniman]

Also the ending to Twilight Princess really left me high and dry.

I don't know, I just didn't feel accomplished with Zelda and Link just.....standing in the middle of the desert, and it just ends.

[WarioBone]

Also the ending to Twilight Princess really left me high and dry.

I don't know, I just didn't feel accomplished with Zelda and Link just.....standing in the middle of the desert, and it just ends.

...what?

[JezMM]

I know I complained a lot about TP, but I really, really didn't like Zelda in that game. Her dull, unattractive face, her personality. She didn't really show any love or affection for Link either. I like the idea of the princess showing some kind of affection toward the hero. Like the kiss in Mario 64. I always loved that as a kid because he so well deserved that.

No offense dude but the girl being the hero's reward is one of the oldest sexist story tropes in the book. =B

Also TP Zelda was pretty. =C Actually my favourite design for her. It was nice to see a brown-haired Zelda for a change, and I like her dangly hair... things.

[Soniman]

...what?

I must remembering it wrong, IIRC TP ended with Midna saying goodbye at Aribiter's Grounds and that's how it ends, with Zelda and Link standing around awkwardly.

[Solkia]

Yeah that's what I remember too.

[JezMM]

Oh, also relevant to current discussion:

...

Oh so that's why you guys don't like TP Zelda...

Also I don't see anything wrong with TP's ending. Midna had to go. Link and Zelda probably returned to their normal lives unless they make a direct sequel.

Edited September 1, 2012 by JezMM

[lounge]

Oh, also relevant to current discussion:

Ha ha I love that!

I guess at the end of TP it's implied that Link eventually goes with Ilia, which I couldn't care less for... I prefer Malon. Who I assume Hero of Time mates with.

[Soniman]

I am confused at ATTLP's reaction though, she's probably has the least developed relationship with Link, right after the NES version.

[Speederino]

You know what I'd like to see in a future game, just for a change of pace? How about a Link who ISN'T an orphan? It surprises me that out of all the various incarnations of Link, OoT's is the only one whose parents are even mentioned.

[Marcello]

Also, Link has talked in official Zelda games before.

In Zelda 2, he talks to himself when you find items.

Only in the English version, though.

[VO.SUPER]

Only in the English version, though.

He did in the Japanese version too, I'll post the proper translation:

Japanese

テーブルノシタデ　カガミヲ　ミツケタゾ

Kanji

テーブルの下で鏡を見つけたぞ。

English

I found a mirror under the table.

Though you're right about the fountain part, so he only speaks once in that game.