Zelda Topic

[Solkia]

Oh I love Minish cap, that game was very easy to jump into.

I also love Four Swords Adventures, too bad I don't have anyone to play it with :<

If they released that on Wii U with online support, I'd love them forever.

[Wraith]

Imagine a SSMB four swords server.

[Kuzu]

Why is it that every game requires a massive guide to beat?

[VO.SUPER]

I don't think there's any sense where this isn't a lie. The wolf is worse at literally everything.

That's a personal opinion.

To what effect? So you can jump around a bit faster against the few enemies that there's any reason to use the wolf against.

That's another point against TP, y'know, but even still you've got arrows, bombs, the boomerang, the ball and chain, and this is on top of your growing collection of sword and shield moves. Compared to the wolf, which has...jack and shit, really.

It's an alternate form of combat which one could find interesting, you just don't. The wolf it part of your arsenal. Plus in the early part of the game, in the wolf only sections, the wolf was given entirely different areas for it to explore, that were different than the final areas that aren't covered in Twilight. By the time you have gotten rid of most twilight, the wolf is just part of your arsenal and is as useful as any other tactic.

Except it's boring. The wolf can't do anything interesting except that auto-attack with Midna's help, and that's boring because the game is playing itself.

Your personal preference. I personally find the short auto-attacking fun, and the extra speed for charging attacks is fun to me.

Skyward Sword has a lot of dialogue early on too, but at least it's halfway interesting, with characters that have some real heart, rather than some townspeople you have no reason to care about and some brats that you'll actively dislike (except Malo, Malo's ok).

And if they were just minigames I'd be okay with it, but they front-load the game with them and force you to go through them every time you want to play again.

You mean Groose and Zelda. Who else are you talking to in that part of the game? The instructors, the other students whom you don't care for, the townsfolk. Not too different, except SS is longer and more restrictive with this beginning.

Nothing in Twilight Princess was dangerous. And all that did was waste time sending us through an area that we'd have to go through again later. You want a dangerous trek, throw Link in a fucking dungeon and get the game moving.

Metaphorically dangerous. It was meant to get new players adjusted to the combat early on in the experience and give a taste for it. It wasted no time, it built anticipation for the moment when Link would be free from his wolf's curse. It was actually a clever piece of design.

Oh, and you're not even going through the same area again. You go through it different ways, one when you begin the game, another when you're a wolf, and a third when you get the lantern.

Poes only get you a bottle and rupees, and rupees are basically useless anyway (especially with the minuscule wallet they give you meaning you're constantly maxing out). Heart pieces, the game's so easy that they're worthless. And no, being able to gimp yourself with the Zora armor doesn't make this okay, and even if it did the rest of the game is enough of a pain that it isn't worth bothering with.

But gamers wants them because they want them. Why get all the stars, shines, jiggies, or cash in platformers, because gamers want them. It's optional collectible stuff that adds variety to the game. That's why poes are still fun to collect. They are there and a gamer wants it, the same goes for Heart Pieces. You don't have to get these things in the other Zeldas either, but people still want them. So that doesn't make them worthless.

The only things that are worthless are rupees, and that's because, as Solly said, you can get them anywhere.

Edited August 30, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Sami]

I want to get into the Zelda series, I really do. But I've played all the games from Zelda 1 through Majora's Mask and had to use a guide each time.

Is there something I'm missing? Or is it normal to be using guides for Zelda games?

I played a little bit of Twilight Princess before I returned it to my friend, and had a lot of fun with it (I got lost in the first dungeon since I suck at these games, but that's just me fucking up).

It seems like a great series, but I always have a lot of trouble with it.

Play Skyward Sword. All the puzzles in that game revolve around actual puzzles you need to think about rather than "WHERETHEFUCKDOIGOUUUGH", and the sidequests involve talking to people or actually doing something rather than "Looks like I have to sail ALLTHEFUCKINGWAYACROSSTHEGREATSEAOMGUHUGMU". Personal preference for linear games aside, I think it's just a really good game to start with; it doesn't waste your time with stupid shit like Twilight Princess constantly did, it doesn't have a massive nose-dive in quality like Wind Waker does, and the visuals and game mechanics (obviously) hold their own much better than Ocarina of Time.

It's also a damn good game, but they all are, so it's kind of a moot point.

[Solkia]

Imagine a SSMB four swords server.

Mario Kart? What's that?

[WarioBone]

I can't even read this thread anymore.

Goddamn it, people, does everything have to turn into a "EVERYTHING IS SHIT" fest?

Edited August 30, 2012 by Kind-Hearted Jerk

[lounge]

If you play OOT, I'd rather you didn't play OOT3d and just play the N64 version instead because of how bad Link's animation is. It's so embarrassing to look at.

[Lady Soniko]

the only thing i remember from TP that i hate to think about facing is that god awful guardian puzzle in Sacred Grove... seriously, i need to use a guide for it everytime :l

[Solly]

I can't even read this thread anymore.

Goddamn it, people, does everything have to turn into a "EVERYTHING IS SHIT" fest?

Considering this community, yes.

If you play OOT, I'd rather you didn't play OOT3d and just play the N64 version instead because of how bad Link's animation is. It's so embarrassing to look at.

You've said this before and I've still got no idea what you're talking about.

Why is it that every game requires a massive guide to beat?

They mostly don't. I can see people getting lost in parts of the really early games, Majora's Mask, or even one or two parts of Ocarina of Time. Other than that, they're pretty straight forward with their objectives. Edited August 30, 2012 by Solly

[Diogenes]

That's a personal opinion.

Bullshit, you don't have an argument so you're falling back on the "but my opinion!" excuse. Objectively the wolf has far less options in combat, has basically nothing to offer in puzzles, can't navigate anything other than flat terrain worth a shit. About the only thing the wolf has over human form is that he runs faster, which isn't worth much when you'll be warping or riding Epona over any significant distance, and all it does is cut down on time wasted crossing the empty wasteland that is TP's overworld.

Plus in the early part of the game, in the wolf only sections, the wolf was given entirely different areas for it to explore, that were different than the final areas that aren't covered in Twilight.

All of which suck. Ugly places with boring gameplay, largely centered around finding a dozen wingdings so you can get back to actual Zelda gameplay.

By the time you have gotten rid of most twilight, the wolf is just part of your arsenal and is as useful as any other tactic.

Oh like hell. The only thing the wolf's useful for is the few cases when you're explicitly forced to use it to beat the enemy because only the wolf form has the attack that kills it, for anything else you're just wasting your time switching to a gimped form with boring abilities.

Your personal preference. I personally find the short auto-attacking fun,

See, why are we arguing? You enjoy not playing the game, I enjoy not playing the game.

You mean Groose and Zelda. Who else are you talking to in that part of the game? The instructors, the other students whom you don't care for, the townsfolk. Not too different, except SS is longer and more restrictive with this beginning.

Fuck if I can remember their names, but Groose's sidekicks, the wimpy dude, the redhead, that little kid who ends up playing with the monster guy, the shopkeepers, they're all more interesting than anyone in TP. And even if it was just Groose and Zelda that's still better than anything TP offers.

But gamers wants them because they want them. Why get all the stars, shines, jiggies, or cash in platformers, because gamers want them.

Gamer OCD doesn't mean the game's any good. A good game would make things that are interesting to get and actually useful. Look at Majora's Mask; there's all kinds of crazy quests to get the masks, and a good deal of them are useful in one situation or another. It's not just a bunch of shiny trinkets for the obsessives to obsess over.

[lounge]

The wolf for me wasn't as well made as it could have been. Once you get the ability to transform at your will, I'd never transform unless I had to. And then I'd change right back as soon as I was done with the wolf task. Because the wolf is very limited in what it could do. They should've made it do more things. And again the animation isn't lively enough. What was really annoying with the combat was when you lunged at an enemy and then you'd have to wait and wait for them to get back up cause you couldn't finish them off. There was a nice detail on when you attacked rats you'd wraggle them with the mouth then throw them aside.

[WarioBone]

I don't normally make ridiculous accusations about OoT3D, but when I do, I completely ignore all questions regarding such.

[Wraith]

If you want Ocarina of Time, get the 3D version. It's the better version by far. Don't worry about something as insignificant as an animation.

[WarioBone]

If you want Ocarina of Time, get the 3D version. It's the better version by far. Don't worry about something as insignificant as an animation.

Which isn't even an issue. I though the animations were great.

[lounge]

You've said this before and I've still got no idea what you're talking about.

The new animations for link look so awkward to me is what I'm saying. And the rigging doesn't look right either.

[Solly]

The new animations for link look so awkward to me is what I'm saying. And the rigging doesn't look right either.

To each his own, I guess, but I'm not really seeing it. Except for the rigging in some existing animations, but I thought the animation was really fluid. To use a word like "embarassing' to describe it is just weird to me.

[JezMM]

Yeah I prefer the 3D animations. Link sort of jerkily pattered about in the original. In the remake he actually has a smooth running animation.

Granted it looked weird at first because I've played the N64 games SO many times, but still, the 3D animations are, objectively, "better". The camera work is a lot nicer in the remake too.

[speedfreak]

How can I be wrong when I say TP is the best Zelda to me? I know other people think other Zeldas are better and I'm fine with that since I think all Zeldas are pretty great.

It IMO has the best dungeons and boss fights and to me that's enough to edge out the rest. Even if it is only by a slight amount.

[VO.SUPER]

Bullshit, you don't have an argument so you're falling back on the "but my opinion!" excuse. Objectively the wolf has far less options in combat, has basically nothing to offer in puzzles, can't navigate anything other than flat terrain worth a shit. About the only thing the wolf has over human form is that he runs faster, which isn't worth much when you'll be warping or riding Epona over any significant distance, and all it does is cut down on time wasted crossing the empty wasteland that is TP's overworld.

I do have an argument, but you're falling on personal preference which is utter bullshit to argue against.

Yes, the wolf has less options, but you have yet to prove how that is inferior, since the wolf is a PART OF YOUR ARSENAL. It's like if you decided to go with the Ball and Chain in a fight, there's no difference. It's a personal preference on what you want to use.

All of which suck. Ugly places with boring gameplay, largely centered around finding a dozen wingdings so you can get back to actual Zelda gameplay.

You see, how can I argue against such bias like this? You're full of shit if you believe that's an objective truth. The sections of twilight are unique from the rest of the game, giving the wolf a good purpose, and making it's sections feel as if they're evolving throughout the course of the beginning.

Oh like hell. The only thing the wolf's useful for is the few cases when you're explicitly forced to use it to beat the enemy because only the wolf form has the attack that kills it, for anything else you're just wasting your time switching to a gimped form with boring abilities.

That's true. The wolf stops being useful after the twilight's pretty much gone from Hyrule, but whether it's fun or not at that point is entirely subjective.

See, why are we arguing? You enjoy not playing the game, I enjoy not playing the game.

We're arguing because you posted your opinion on the internet and I had time to kill.

Fuck if I can remember their names, but Groose's sidekicks, the wimpy dude, the redhead, that little kid who ends up playing with the monster guy, the shopkeepers, they're all more interesting than anyone in TP. And even if it was just Groose and Zelda that's still better than anything TP offers.

On a personal preference, I agree since SS does have Groose and Zelda but neither are really interesting at that point. Zelda's a little more playful than usual in the beginning, but how does she really impact you in the beginning? And what about Groose? For the beginning, he's just Gaston.

They're both terribly tedious, but I find TP's less tedious because it's shorter.

Gamer OCD doesn't mean the game's any good. A good game would make things that are interesting to get and actually useful. Look at Majora's Mask; there's all kinds of crazy quests to get the masks, and a good deal of them are useful in one situation or another. It's not just a bunch of shiny trinkets for the obsessives to obsess over.

Bullshit, if that's true then the collect-a-thon wouldn't exist, or even the prospect of 100%. 100% is all about appealing to OCD, It's not just about the reward, but making the collecting fun, which I found it to be.

Well, many of the masks are useless in MM after their initial use, which is all sidequest based. What do you honestly need the Kamaro mask for, or the Pig's Mask, or the Stone Mask outside that one fight, or the Gorman mask, or the Don Gero's mask? It's just entertaining to collect them though.

Edited August 31, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[WarioBone]

How can I be wrong when I say TP is the best Zelda to me? I know other people think other Zeldas are better and I'm fine with that since I think all Zeldas are pretty great.

It IMO has the best dungeons and boss fights and to me that's enough to edge out the rest. Even if it is only by a slight amount.

You might as well just drop it. It won't stop until you just stop talking about it. Sorry, dude.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kind-Hearted Jerk

[Soniman]

How can I be wrong when I say TP is the best Zelda to me? I know other people think other Zeldas are better and I'm fine with that since I think all Zeldas are pretty great.

It IMO has the best dungeons and boss fights and to me that's enough to edge out the rest. Even if it is only by a slight amount.

Two of Twilight Princess' crappiest aspects to me personally.

[Wraith]

Not gonna lie, Dinogenes, you're being a bit opinionated yourself here.

[Solkia]

I thought Twilight Princess had pretty good dungeons :<

[Speederino]

If they released that on Wii U with online support, I'd love them forever.

Don't worry, they won't. Not anytime soon, anyways. Nintendo is just now starting to realize that this strange and exotic "online gaming" thing is something gamers actually WANT, but that doesn't mean they're going to just jump right in and add online support to an eight year old game. I mean obviously everyone already has three friends who own the game and can meet up to play it at the snap of their fingers. That is sarcasm, by the way.

Why is it that every game requires a massive guide to beat?

I haven't used a guide since Wind Waker, because that thing absolutely ruined my first playthrough. At the time I was young and afraid to tackle such large-scale games by myself, but now I think they completely ruin the experience. The fun in Zelda games is discovering secret areas and solving difficult puzzles all by your lonesome. Nothing is more satisfying then getting hung up on something for 20 minutes only to figure it out when you're at the peak of frustration. Besides, for newer games you really don't need them. They like to hold the player's hand a little more these days, and during the rare "impossible" moment, there's sometimes an in-game hint system.

Ah what the hell, I think I'll join in on some of the fun

I don't think there's any sense where this isn't a lie. The wolf is worse at literally everything.

I didn't know it was possible to "lie" about a subjective personal preference, but whatever.

That's another point against TP, y'know, but even still you've got arrows, bombs, the boomerang, the ball and chain, and this is on top of your growing collection of sword and shield moves. Compared to the wolf, which has...jack and shit, really.

But when does anyone ever use the other items in combat in ANY Zelda game? Unless the enemy specifically requires a certain item, there's no need to ever use anything but the sword and shield, barring a few exceptions like the boomerang (In 2D Zelda's, anyway) and the Deku Nuts in OoT Master Quest (I've gone entire playthroughs of regular OoT where I instantly forgot they even existed). But useful combat-items like these are few and far between.

Skyward Sword has a lot of dialogue early on too, but at least it's halfway interesting, with characters that have some real heart, rather than some townspeople you have no reason to care about and some brats that you'll actively dislike (except Malo, Malo's ok).

Not really. A couple characters, yeah, but the townsfolk don't really stand out any more than townfolk usually do. I didn't really see this aspect as particularly better or worse than other games.

And if they were just minigames I'd be okay with it, but they front-load the game with them and force you to go through them every time you want to play again.

True enough. Though I'd point out that Skyward Sword does a couple of similar things with the tutorials on flying and using the parachute. They structure them like mini-games (The loftwing race and "land on the bullseye" thing with the parachute) but they don't really ease you into the controls. So, for me, the first time I played these was freakin' aggravating. And the latter tutorial is useless since the only time you have to actually aim where you're landing is the Fun Fun Island mini game. So it's essentially a mini-game tutorial, barring the one time where it's useful in the third Imprisoned fight.

Nothing in Twilight Princess was dangerous. And all that did was waste time sending us through an area that we'd have to go through again later. You want a dangerous trek, throw Link in a fucking dungeon and get the game moving.

Nothing in any Zelda game is ever dangerous, which is something that's always bugged me. Open question to all experienced Zelda players: when was the last time you saw the Game Over screen? When you collided with a train in Spirit Tracks? Master Quest, maybe? Barring some of the older games, dying is incredibly easy to avoid.

Poes only get you a bottle and rupees, and rupees are basically useless anyway (especially with the minuscule wallet they give you meaning you're constantly maxing out). Heart pieces, the game's so easy that they're worthless. And no, being able to gimp yourself with the Zora armor doesn't make this okay, and even if it did the rest of the game is enough of a pain that it isn't worth bothering with.

I actually agree with this, but I think this particular problem spreads across the entire series. Skyward Sword finally gave rupees a legitimate use, but there have been so, so many times where I've gone through a mini-dungeon or solved a long, multi-part puzzle only to recieve rupees...while my wallet is full...because absolutely nothing in these shops are worth buying unless the story requires it. In TP, I deliberately used that Rupee armor JUST so I would always have some room in my wallet so I wouldn't feel ripped off whenever this happened.

Fuck me this post is longer then I thought.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Original Character Blonic