Zelda Topic

[Wraith]

Or because the game sucked. There's that.

[speedfreak]

WW looked fantastic graphically, but I have to admit I don't care for the way humans looked. I would prefer WW graphics with character models that were closer in style to the Oracle games. The characters were still cartoony but at least Link didn't look like the Powerpuff Girls older brother.

[Soniman]

Or because the game sucked. There's that.

Teehee, that's a good one.

[Kuzu]

Or because the game sucked. There's that.

You so silly.

[Solly]

Or because the game sucked. There's that.

WW looked fantastic graphically, but I have to admit I don't care for the way humans looked. I would prefer WW graphics with character models that were closer in style to the Oracle games. The characters were still cartoony but at least Link didn't look like the Powerpuff Girls older brother.

I'll admit the characters looked a little strange sometimes. Something always felt off about their proportions. This would become a recurring problem in other Zelda games that used the same art style, like Phantom Hourglass. I mean just look at Linebeck.

LOOK AT HIS TINY LEGS

GOD DAMN.

[Nix]

I'll admit the characters looked a little strange sometimes. Something always felt off about their proportions. This would become a recurring problem in other Zelda games that used the same art style, like Phantom Hourglass. I mean just look at Linebeck.

LOOK AT HIS TINY LEGS

GOD DAMN.

Hey.

Linebeck was like, the only good thing about Phantom Hourglass so.

Shut up.

He's proud of those tiny legs dammit.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Pinkamina

[Solly]

Hey.

Linebeck was like, the only good thing about Phantom Hourglass so.

Shut up.

He's proud of those tiny legs dammit.

Linebeck is actually one of the most memorable Zelda characters to me, so I'm not complaining really, but the anatomy in these games is kind of crazy sometimes.

[lounge]

If you think about it, most NPC's in any zelda usually have a strange, goofy look to them.

I'd really like to see traditional cel shaded like graphics where the models litterally look 100% like official illustrations, while the environments have a photorealistic, non-ugly look.

[speedfreak]

Yeah that's my main problem with the characters in WW, the proportions. The world looks wonderful but I really dislike the proportions on the characters. Take Ganondorf for example. He has the cool robe thing on so his proportions are hidden, but if he didn't have that he would have the tiny legs too and would just look silly and non threatening IMO.

I would love a game that looked like WW but had characters that looked more proportionally correct.

[G-Force]

Yeah that's my main problem with the characters in WW, the proportions. The world looks wonderful but I really dislike the proportions on the characters. Take Ganondorf for example. He has the cool robe thing on so his proportions are hidden, but if he didn't have that he would have the tiny legs too and would just look silly and non threatening IMO.

I would love a game that looked like WW but had characters that looked more proportionally correct.

This is basically what I was trying to get at. I think the ideal would be to have realistically proportioned characters with stylized appearances, but just as a general idea. It could be Wind Waker style or Skyard Sword style, or whatever other style. That detail doesn't really matter to me. I just think the Zelda series should go for something along these lines...

Though obviously not Akira Toriyama's art style specifically.

[VO.SUPER]

You know, I'd like to see a Zelda game in Akira Toriyama's style actually.

[Octarine]

I love Toriyama's monster designs, so seeing him Dragon Quest-ify the various classic Zelda enemies could be fun, especially since most of them have varied so widely in appearance over the years that even a drastic re-imagining wouldn't be too out of place. I wouldn't let him anywhere near any character who isn't supposed to be completely weird-looking, though; the poor guy just can't do faces.

[Diogenes]

I wouldn't let him anywhere near any character who isn't supposed to be completely weird-looking, though; the poor guy just can't do faces.

Well, no, he can do faces.

About two of them.

[MykonosFan]

Lineback is like a pirate right? So he has two peg legs obviously!

Note: I have never played the game he is in 'nor do I know anything about him

[Sami]

How do you know that? I'm just assuming it's gibberish, but unless Nintendo outright states it's real Muslim chanting, then I don't believe it.

Edit: Well look at that, I just looked at the updated version of the Pop fiction interview and it proves what you say.

Also, on a personal opinion I found the original theme to be much better. It felt creepier for a more hellish level. The final theme is just so bland to me.

I know I'm kinda late to the discussion here, but I'm glad it was taken out.

I mean, I really am all for artistic freedom and stuff and I hate political correctness just as much as you guys do, but... I just can't get behind putting actual Muslim prayers (that say nothing more than "God is great", by the way) in a place that looks like Hell on Earth. This, I think, is perfectly fine:

I actually quite like that song; the use of verses from the Qu'ran actually compliments the theme of the song and level (the inevitability of life; everything will eventually come to an end, etc.)

But uuuhhh... putting some chanting of "Allahu akbar" into this place for no reason better than "It's Islam and their chants sound creepy and hellish"? Yeah, can't say I find that okay. I'd be pretty offended had I discovered it myself and it wasn't taken out.

[Nepenthe]

I don't think they chose the chant because they think Islamic chants sound creepy and Hellish. I think they chose the chant because it sounds creepy and Hellish regardless of its origin. There's a difference: If they had chosen a chant from a completely different language, say Russian, to represent the level, it wouldn't inherently say anything bad about Russian natives and speakers. I mean, I understand the outrage, and good on them for taking it out in response to it. But I don't really agree with it mostly because you can't really prove any malice on part of Nintendo anyway (especially when the statement translates into a positive message). It also does indeed open up a slippery slope about freedom of speech and artistic expression in terms of the use of religious imagery.

Edited September 7, 2012 by Nepenthe

[VO.SUPER]

What about this then? In this remixed version the chanting it turned into just gibberish.

I still think the idea of chanting in general sounded much better than the droll we got in the final version.

[Sami]

I don't think they chose the chant because they think Islamic chants sound creepy and Hellish. I think they chose the chant because it sounds creepy and Hellish regardless of its origin. There's a difference: If they had chosen a chant from a completely different language, say Russian, to represent the level, it wouldn't inherently say anything bad about Russian natives and speakers. I mean, I understand the outrage, and good on them for taking it out in response to it. But I don't really agree with it mostly because you can't really prove any malice on part of Nintendo anyway (especially when the statement translates into a positive message). It also does indeed open up a slippery slope about freedom of speech and artistic expression in terms of the use of religious imagery.

But there's nothing creepy or hellish about it, and hearing it in a different context wouldn't give that impression at all. Why not just use gibberish like in that remix?

If the intention was to sound creepy and hellish, why go out of your way to use something that's absolutely going to offend people?

[Nepenthe]

Why not use something they thought sounded cool? Given how Japan isn't really an overtly religious country and instead uses religious imagery from the Big Three and others in their media for the awesome factor more than anything (especially Christianity), this is probably a far more likely answer than them actually wanting to go out of their way to piss off the Islamic community. This is not counting the fact that, again, the actual translation is a positive message.

Again, why would anyone assume that Nintendo was making a slight against their religion for using a chant that says "God is good?" unless you believe any statements or iconography of a religious nature cannot be used to express or promote any kind of negative context in a fantasy world? Where do you draw the line on this? I mean, in Skyward Sword, you're basically charged with killing the benevolent Indian god Vishnu in the form of the Koloktos boss. It looks blatantly like Vishnu and uses his Sudarshana Chakra (the spinning disc weapons), and you have to dismember it with its own weaponry. It's quite a violent and prolonged battle, more blatant than the chant, so should this boss be removed outright for being a slight against Hinduism?

[Sean]

You'd be hard pressed to find a Japanese game that doesn't have some kind of religious symbolism or reference used solely for the purpose of coolness, and not for anything overtly meaningful. Zelda does it, countless RPGs do it, even Persona does it. Nobody, and certainly no company, in their right mind does this stuff to piss anyone off, and the Fire Temple chanting is one example of thousands that do this sort of thing.

Like Nepenthe said, it had Islamic chanting because the developers thought it was cool. That's all there is to it. The fact that they removed it should be proof enough that they weren't trying to offend anyone.

[Sami]

I don't consider religious symbolism offensive at all, so long as it exists for a reason. The angels in Evangelion, the use of mythology in Persona, that fight in Skyward Sword, the song from LittleBigPlanet, it's all there to add some kind of depth or symbolism. Hell, I actually really like it.

Putting Arabic chanting in a place that's blatantly hellish and creepy is something I'd be a bit uncomfortable with, but that's just because I'm Arabic. This stuff happens all the time and I definitely have some bias there; it sounds cool, so cool beans.

Putting Islamic chanting in a place that's blatantly hellish and creepy is something I take more offensively, just because it really has no place to be there. That chant is a very common one; "Allahu Akbar" is a phrase that people say multiple times on a daily basis during prayer, and watching a video of Hajj or something would guarantee hearing it a few times. Islamaphobia is a pretty damn big deal nowadays, and it's stuff like this that kept it alive. I'm tired of it. Before you point it out, yes, I know that I'm biased, and yes, I know they weren't deliberately trying to offend people.

I apologize if I sound like I'm rambling, I'm kind of tired and this is sort of a rage button of mine because of how often I've seen it, having lived in America my whole life. My main point isn't that Nintendo was trying to take a shot at Islam, just that I do believe it was a legitimate mistake, and it should have been taken out (and good on Nintendo for taking it out quickly without wasting time trying to justify themselves), if only for the cultural subtext.

Anyhow, I'm kind of weaving in and out of modern culture and politics here, and this isn't the place for that. Apologies for bringing it in; I'll just leave it at that.

-

I personally want the Wind Waker art style back because I think that was the best one and I like consistency in the games I play.

[VO.SUPER]

Putting Islamic chanting in a place that's blatantly hellish and creepy is something I take more offensively, just because it really has no place to be there. That chant is a very common one; "Allahu Akbar" is a phrase that people say multiple times on a daily basis during prayer, and watching a video of Hajj or something would guarantee hearing it a few times. Islamaphobia is a pretty damn big deal nowadays, and it's stuff like this that kept it alive. I'm tired of it. Before you point it out, yes, I know that I'm biased, and yes, I know they weren't deliberately trying to offend people.

How would this keep Islamophobia alive? A chant being in a game, and chances are most english players who aren't muslim wouldn't even realize that it was a stock track. To them it would be just gibberish. It's only a Muslim chant when one who understands the language of the chant. n

Oh well, I guess there's no real harm done, the chant's been replaced in all english versions of the game, and there's nothing changing that. And now that the whole world realizes what the chanting is, there's no place for it to exist but on the internet.

However, I would not be opposed to the altering of the track if Nintendo replaced the chant with something good. Like, gibberish instead of their stock humming which I heard in the Lion King.

Edited September 8, 2012 by VisionaryBlur

[Sami]

How would this keep Islamophobia alive? A chant being in a game, and chances are most english players who aren't muslim wouldn't even realize that it was a stock track. To them it would be just gibberish. It's only a Muslim chant when one who understands the language of the chant. n

Oh well, I guess there's no real harm done, the chant's been replaced in all english versions of the game, and there's nothing changing that. And now that the whole world realizes what the chanting is, there's no place for it to exist but on the internet.

However, I would not be opposed to the altering of the track if Nintendo replaced the chant with something good. Like, gibberish instead of their stock humming which I heard in the Lion King.

Unconscious association, at the very least. It's seriously a bigger deal than you'd think.

Again, though, we're veering off topic. I don't want to drag this any further.

[Diogenes]

Oh hey, pokecapn and crew (the guys who did that '06 Let's Play, and many others) just started LPing Four Swords Adventures. Considering what a ridiculous setup it requires to play (and even moreso to record) I'd figure most people haven't seen much of it, so it's worth checking out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9qLQ1TnH4IY

e: Oh hey, 6000 posts. Not the most common milestone to celebrate, but I usually never notice these things...

Edited September 8, 2012 by Diogenes

[Old dead account]

I always imagined the islamic chants to be the Gorons themselves praying for salvation from that hellish nightmare.