Zelda Topic

[WarioBone]

You might as well just drop it. It won't stop until you just stop talking about it. Sorry, dude.

Two of Twilight Princess' crappiest aspects to me personally.

Case in point.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kind-Hearted Jerk

[lounge]

Don't worry about something as insignificant as an animation.

It's not insignificant when I'm looking at it the entire game. That's part of the feel of the gameplay. In the original it actually looks like he's running. In the 3d version it's all floaty looking to me. It's not fluid looking at all. But that also has to do with the modeling, which look like chibi versions of the official illustrations.

SS had a really nice lively running animation. TP had stiff moving animation. This does have a significant effect on the feel of the game.

[Soniman]

Case in point.

Maybe you should stop complaining over people's opinions then?

As I said before, none of TP's Dungeons ever stood out in a meaningful way for me, they all just felt bland and tiresome.

[Wraith]

It's not insignificant when I'm looking at it the entire game. That's part of the feel of the gameplay. In the original it actually looks like he's running. In the 3d version it's all floaty looking to me. It's not fluid looking at all. But that also has to do with the modeling, which look like chibi versions of the official illustrations.

SS had a really nice lively running animation. TP had stiff moving animation. This does have a significant effect on the feel of the game.

Either way, I'm not gonna tell the guy to skip out on the game completely over THAT. It's still a great remake that's vastly superior to the original.

[speedfreak]

Two of Twilight Princess' crappiest aspects to me personally.

Cool, I'm not going to say you're wrong but I loved them.

I just don't like how some people act as as if one game is fantastic while another game is complete shit. Sure some are better then others but the quality doesn't differ THAT much from Zelda to Zelda.

[WarioBone]

Maybe you should stop complaining over people's opinions then?

I think it's reasonable to be annoyed when a thread is devoted entirely to breaking down games of said series. I'm not complaining about anyone's opinion, but whenever other members are getting bitchslapped repeatedly about their opinions, despite the fact that they weren't even aggressive with them or forcing them on anyone, it gets on my fucking nerves, because I've been treated that way before.

Is it really THAT BAD if this guy likes TP? Do you really have to pick apart EVERY SINGLE FUCKING THING he says and call his opinions WRONG?

Edited August 31, 2012 by Kind-Hearted Jerk

[Solkia]

Guys, you're gonna wake the children! D:

[Sean]

Knock it off, all of you.

I'm not kidding.

[lounge]

Either way, I'm not gonna tell the guy to skip out on the game completely over THAT. It's still a great remake that's vastly superior to the original.

It's not only that, it's also the original aesthetic and mood being completely ruined with the bright graphics. The only thing I found superior was the easier menu system. So many people are excited for a MM3d remake but it's those things that make me not want it. Majora's Mask is available. It's out there. I can understand wanting an HD upscaled treatment, but remaking is a waste of time when the original is still gorgeous to look at and play. Especially with what they were able to do with the expansion pack.

The Banjo Kazooie XBLA treatments is the right way to go. Fix framerate issues, and upscale to HD. But everything else is the same because no amount of remaking can make it better. That's a testament to the development team.

[Speederino]

I just don't like how some people act as as if one game is fantastic while another game is complete shit. Sure some are better then others but the quality doesn't differ THAT much from Zelda to Zelda.

Gotta admit, you have a pretty good point there. I think it's just that these conflicting viewpoints delve into "night and day" territory. One person can have tons of fun with a particular game mechanic and think it's one of the best things to ever happen to the series, but another person might have a miserable time with the same thing and literally can't comprehend why someone else might enjoy it. Not too different from Sonic, come to think of it. Only in this case we can usually agree that the game is *good*. It's just a matter of whether it was decent or the best game in the series.

[VO.SUPER]

Really, I'm just one of those people who has never played a bad Zelda game. Maybe bad by Zelda standards, but never bad as a game. They've all had their fundamental flaws, but never enough to make me regret purchasing it. Even PH, as much as I loathe it, has enough good moments to keep me happy.

[JezMM]

The Banjo Kazooie XBLA treatments is the right way to go. Fix framerate issues, and upscale to HD. But everything else is the same because no amount of remaking can make it better. That's a testament to the development team.

The problem is they already did that with OoT. Twice on the GameCube and once on the Wii, and both GameCube ones were freebies no less. (Minus the HD thing of course but that wouldn't apply to 3DS anyway).

They really needed to prove they had put the effort in on this one to justify it being a full-priced retail game, and beefing up the aesthetics is the fastest way to show that.

I mean do you really dislike everything about the new aesthetics? Surely you can at least say the fully-modelled interiors and Market are better than the muddy old pre-rendered ones?

I mean I can understand some of what you're saying. Shadow Temple isn't as creepy without the unexplained blood stains and lack of infinite-looking rooms at the end of the dungeon (due to fogging being removed and wall textures added where it was previously just black), and I recall not thinking the Spirit Temple looked quite... "right" in the way they redid the textures, but everything else I thought was wonderfully re-imagined for a modern audience.

OoT was never a dark game to begin with. I'm sure if they remade MM they would emphasise the dark/twisted/surreal aspects suitably.

Edited August 31, 2012 by JezMM

[Speederino]

Really, I'm just one of those people who has never played a bad Zelda game. Maybe bad by Zelda standards, but never bad as a game. They've all had their fundamental flaws, but never enough to make me regret purchasing it. Even PH, as much as I loathe it, has enough good moments to keep me happy.

Exactly, and that's why Zelda is my favorite game series. While there are a few games I didn't really like by Zelda standards, I've never once thought I was playing a legitimately bad game. Lazy and cookie-cutter games, sure. But NEVER bad.

[VO.SUPER]

OoT was never a dark game to begin with. I'm sure if they remade MM they would emphasise the dark/twisted/surreal aspects suitably.

Most definitely agree with you there. You know, I actually think the lighting system used in Majora's mask was tailored specifically for that game, so if MM is remade, even if it uses OOT3Ds models, it would probably be using a new lighting system, and darker textures, to match the feel of MM.

[lounge]

I mean do you really dislike everything about the new aesthetics? Surely you can at least say the fully-modelled interiors and Market are better than the muddy old pre-rendered ones?

I never saw the big deal with the shops being pre-rendered because they actually look nice to me.

OoT was never a dark game to begin with. I'm sure if they remade MM they would emphasise the dark/twisted/surreal aspects suitably.

OoT had a unique mood that the remake didn't even come close to matching with it's new fancy, bright graphics. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now that I prefered in graphics or animations.

Majora's Mask looks fine as is. If they remade it, it would be with new graphics and lighting systems. It wouldn't have the same mood and feel. That's why I'm so against these remakes. Just give them the HD treatment and fix all framerate problems and add a few things here and there like those shiekah hints (if possible) to make it easier for noobs and it'll be great for new audiences. No matter how many polygons they put into it it will never look the same.

[Kuzu]

I think only memorable dungeons come from after the Arbiter Grounds honestly, before that it's just generic forest dungeon, generic fire dungeon, and generic water dungeon.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Ragna the Bloodedge

[Nix]

Open question to all experienced Zelda players: when was the last time you saw the Game Over screen? When you collided with a train in Spirit Tracks? Master Quest, maybe? Barring some of the older games, dying is incredibly easy to avoid.

Several times in Skyward Sword. Mostly due to me getting careless in combat or during boss fights. That's something I loved about Skyward Sword, it tried it's damnedest to keep me focused and actively engaged throughout the game. That, the great motion controls, and excellent art direction among other things helped make Skyward Sword one of the more immersive Zelda games out there in my opinion.

Edited August 31, 2012 by Pinkamina

[JezMM]

I never saw the big deal with the shops being pre-rendered because they actually look nice to me.

OoT had a unique mood that the remake didn't even come close to matching with it's new fancy, bright graphics. I can't think of anything off the top of my head right now that I prefered in graphics or animations.

Majora's Mask looks fine as is. If they remade it, it would be with new graphics and lighting systems. It wouldn't have the same mood and feel. That's why I'm so against these remakes. Just give them the HD treatment and fix all framerate problems and add a few things here and there like those shiekah hints (if possible) to make it easier for noobs and it'll be great for new audiences. No matter how many polygons they put into it it will never look the same.

Fair enough, I guess different strokes for different folks. I didn't necessarily like all the stuff they changed in OoT3D but not in the sense that I thought they were bad changes. No-one playing for the first time would even notice or care that anything was different.

I would trust them to keep MM's atmosphere because I think they kept OoT's for the vast majority personally.

[Marcello]

Why is it that every game requires a massive guide to beat?

They don't. Maybe you're just not good.

It's not insignificant when I'm looking at it the entire game. That's part of the feel of the gameplay. In the original it actually looks like he's running. In the 3d version it's all floaty looking to me. It's not fluid looking at all. But that also has to do with the modeling, which look like chibi versions of the official illustrations.

SS had a really nice lively running animation. TP had stiff moving animation. This does have a significant effect on the feel of the game.

I don't think you know what chibi is.

To compare:

Art:

Original:

3D:

I'll agree on you later post about the the poppier colors. I prefer the less saturated colors of the original. But 3D did look dark when needed to, imo. I think the port was beautiful.

[speedfreak]

So to change subjects a bit, does anyone else agree with the theory that the Twili from TP were the ones who created Majoras Mask? It fits almost perfectly. The two games share the bit of story about a magic using tribe that was banished, Majoras Mask and the mask Midna wears have very similar looking eyes, and most recently the official timeline puts the two games into the same canon right after one another.

[Mangoaxe5]

Midna was literally the best fucking thing about Twilight Princess.

Fixed.

Why is it that every game requires a massive guide to beat?

You most really suck then. Edited August 31, 2012 by Vampfox

[buba]

You most really suck then.

Not sure about what he meant but tell me if you can beat the original Zelda without a guide, they just put you in the middle of nowhere without explaining what you have to do.

[Speederino]

Not sure about what he meant but tell me if you can beat the original Zelda without a guide, they just put you in the middle of nowhere without explaining what you have to do.

I've done it. Mostly. I guess I used a guide to find one or two particular items, but otherwise I found/beat every dungeon without resorting to the internet. You just have to tackle the game a bit differently than you normally would. Exploring the overworld and looking for dungeons is part of the experience, so you just have to be willing to take your time and interact with anything suspicious- move every rock, burn every oddly-placed tree, etc.

[VO.SUPER]

So to change subjects a bit, does anyone else agree with the theory that the Twili from TP were the ones who created Majoras Mask? It fits almost perfectly. The two games share the bit of story about a magic using tribe that was banished, Majoras Mask and the mask Midna wears have very similar looking eyes, and most recently the official timeline puts the two games into the same canon right after one another.

Oh, the stuff that have been theorized about the Twili. I agree with the theory that they were the ones who originally created Majora's Mask. They wanted to control Hyrule using their dark objects in Termina, but in the end they were banish to the Twilight Realm for their insolence, and what happened to them varies between Timelines.

In the Young Link Timeline, the Twili are quite prevalent as an entity, but were in small numbers after being banished from Termina. At that point, their leadership was scattered and weak. It wasn't until Midna's family took the throne as the rulers of twilight that order was restored, and the interlopers fell to a sullen peace with their situation. Zant was one of the few who still longed for revenge against Hyrule and was then blessed by Ganondorf's power.

After the Twilight situation was solved, most of the problems involving the twili was done with, though some remnants of their handiwork was still seen about the world. When Midna scattered the Dark Mirror pieces, there were still large enough pieces for evil denizens to combine to make a smaller dark mirror.

In the Adult Timeline, the twili are non existant when it comes to interfering with the world, since Hyrule was destroyed by the Great Sea.

In the Death Timeline, things went differently for the Twili. Instead of being quelled by intelligent leadership, they still desired revenge against the Hyrulians, and wouldn't stop at anything to defeat them. After the events of the Sealing War, when Ganon was banished from the Light World, he managed to come to contact with the Twili and enlist the help of their strongest member, Agahnim to do his bidding and let him into the Light World.

In the Oracle Games, the Dark Tribe was very prevalent as the main antagonists for the entireity of the game in their attempt to revive Ganon. Veran was the Dark Witch born from the Twili, Onox was the Dark Dragon, born from evil magic and brought from the Dark World. (Which I assume to be the Twilight Realm, since the Dark World was destroyed in Alttp.)

(This is the guesswork part.)

After the failure in Holodrum in Labrynna, the Dark Tribe was scattered and broken, but they had one last trick up their sleeves. Since the Triforce was brought out into the normal world at that point, they went into hiding and raised the new Ganon in the Twilight Realm before they unleashed him and his armies upon Hyrule like a hurricane. This caused Hyrule to fall into an era of decline and led up to the main kingdom falling.

So in the end, I guess you could say the Dark Tribe won to an extent.

Well, this went on too long.

[Marcello]

Not sure about what he meant but tell me if you can beat the original Zelda without a guide, they just put you in the middle of nowhere without explaining what you have to do.

I used a world map for Zelda 1, but point is, he said "most games", one game (2 if you caount Zelda 2, but the only problem there is how strong monsters are. Guides can't really help there) isn't most. Most of the titles have enough direction to not get confusing.