Final Fantasy XIII Lightning Saga

[Teoskaven]

Saying that CoD is bad without analyzing it is like saying that a gun maker is the responsable for a crime commited with the guns that he created.

The problem is not CoD itself (even if i find it extremely boring, but that's only my personal taste), but the shitload of FPS that this series has spawned from other companies. If they are done well it's not a bad thing (Bioshock Infinite for example), but then you have things like Battleship, Inversion, Haze, Homefront and stuff like that.

 

With all that said, Marzgurl point is still valid to me: there are people out there who buy this games just because there's Final Fantasy written on it. Sadly.

Edited April 7, 2013 by Teoskaven

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Because of its name? Seriously? And what about XIV? Did that sell well because it has "Final Fantasy" slapped? Did XIV get a fantastic reception because it has "Final Fantasy" slapped?

 

Look guys, I know you all dislike the XIII series, and yes everyone has opinions. But this is a fact. With almost 10 million sales on the series and constant critic positive reception, you cannot deny that XIII and XIII-2 were successful. And that's the most important thing out of all of this. Obviously for it to sell almost 10 million, there is something in the game that these people liked.

 

If you bought XIII-2 because "I heard it was good" or "I thought it was good", where did you hear that from? The neutrals? The critics? Why did you believe them? They fooled you with the first XIII game! Shouldn't you ask the FF fanboys who didn't like the first XIII to begin with and hear their opinion with XIII-2?

Edited April 7, 2013 by Ming Ming Shana

[KHCast]

Sales wise,sure it was by business terms successful. But everything else is opinionated. Critics? Yeaaah no. I certainly don't along with many take critic reviews seriously. They can easily be persuaded or its constant fanboygasming about the title.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Okay look at the user score on both titles then on Metacritic. There are more positive reviews than mixed and negatives. Square couldn't persuade these consumers am I correct?

 

I know you don't take critic reviews seriously from Metacritic but...that's you. Metacritic isn't a top site for nothing.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Ming Ming Shana

[pppp]

Shana, you're a Sonic fan, you should be familiar with critics being terrible at their job already.

 

You want to know what would make most people shut up? If Square makes a game like this:

 

 

 

 

No, i'm serious. Square, make something just like it. This game not only is much more worthy of the Final Fantasy name, but it's an objectively much better game than both XIII games combined.

[Conando]

They'd probably shut up if they actually went with this type of attempt at "westernizing" too.

 

 

 

Funny that "westernizing" actually meant embracing the old way of the JRPG where you're just plopped down on a huge field filled with stuff to find and monsters to kill.

[pppp]

They'd probably shut up if they actually went with this type of attempt at "westernizing" too.

 

 

 

Funny that "westernizing" actually meant embracing the old way of the JRPG where you're just plopped down on a huge field filled with stuff to find and monsters to kill.

 

Oh definitely Xenoblade is awesome, but Ni no Kuni is more akin to classic FF games which is why i used that one as an example.

[Conando]

I found Ni No Kuni more similar to Dragon Quest, actually. Xenoblade's whole thing fits the Sci-Fi motif they just can't seem to get out of these days.

[Sami]

Not like it matters which one is more "Final Fantasy" anyway. FF's been going through one hell of an identity crisis for years now. Both would work just fine.

[redhellc]

If you bought XIII-2 because "I heard it was good" or "I thought it was good", where did you hear that from? The neutrals? The critics? Why did you believe them? They fooled you with the first XIII game! Shouldn't you ask the FF fanboys who didn't like the first XIII to begin with and hear their opinion with XIII-2?

I don't know about other people, but I bought both games in the release day. And I must say I enjoyed XIII much more than XIII-2. For me that's not saying much. The reason I said I thought the game was better it was because of the way it was marketed, I saw trailers and  interviews with the developers saying that they had listened to the fans and were making a new game to compensate the second one. But for me while they indeed improve some aspects, they ruined others. In the end the game felt like a convoluted mess that wasn't finished, and the story dlc's just gave me more of that impression, especially Lighting's one.

 

You may say you like the games, I have no problem with that, but saying that these games didn't sell because of their name, well that's not true. For one I would never have bought if it wasn't a Final Fantasy game, because I wouldn't had bought day-one and would I've seen the reception the game had, making me unsure of the purchase. The same applies to a lot of people I know, they bought it thinking it was a Final Fantasy game and they were disappointed at the end. I was one of the few who bought the sequel, giving it a chance, and was left disappointed again. So I don't think I'm gonna give a chance that easily to this one.

 

I'm not saying they are bad games, but they aren't good games either. For me the are mediocre games, that don't stand to the other main Final Fantasy games.  

Edited April 8, 2013 by redhellc

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

I don't know about other people, but I bought both games in the release day. And I must say I enjoyed XIII much more than XIII-2. For me that's not saying much. The reason I said I thought the game was better it was because of the way it was marketed, I saw trailers and  interviews with the developers saying that they had listened to the fans and were making a new game to compensate the second one. But for me while they indeed improve some aspects, they ruined others. In the end the game felt like a convoluted mess that wasn't finished, and the story dlc's just gave me more of that impression, especially Lighting's one.

 

You may say you like the games, I have no problem with that, but saying that these games didn't sell because of their name, well that's not true. For one I would never have bought if it wasn't a Final Fantasy game, because I wouldn't had bought day-one and would I've seen the reception the game had, making me unsure of the purchase. The same applies to a lot of people I know, they bought it thinking it was a Final Fantasy game and they were disappointed at the end. I was one of the few who bought the sequel, giving it a chance, and was left disappointed again. So I don't think I'm gonna give a chance that easily to this one.

 

I'm not saying they are bad games, but they aren't good games either. For me the are mediocre games, that don't stand to the other main Final Fantasy games.  

 

So...by your logic, Sonic Generations sold well because it has "Sonic" in its title. Not because it's a good game. Transformed sold well because it has "Sonic" in the title (If it was just called Sega All-Stars Transformed, with Sonic's face in the background of the cover art, would it still sell?)

 

Mario Galaxy sold fantastically well because it has "Super Mario" on the title...see where I'm going with this?

 

True, I understand that the XIII series sold well with the help of its name. But you can't say it sold well, only because of its name which you guys are/were telling me. I could easily point to XIV, as an example to say you're wrong. Crap/bad games get bad sales. That is WHAT to be expected, regardless of how famous the franchise is. 

 

How Aliens managed to get over a million sales, it's because of the help of its name. But it was so bad, Sega admits that, the reception of the game was poor...you just can't see Sega announcing the sequel to the series with the current developers. You can even say "Lucky Sega".

 

Also, not all top franchises with top names instantly get mega sales, look at DmC even with high positive critic reception. It's struggling to break a million copies! 

 

I already admitted the XIII series is not a good Final Fantasy series compared to the others, but I believe it's a good series on its own.

Edited April 8, 2013 by Ming Ming Shana

[T-Min]

So...by your logic, Sonic Generations sold well because it has "Sonic" in its title. Not because it's a good game.

Actually, there are probably quite a few people here that would legitimately say that.

 

...

 

Myself not included, of course.

I already admitted the XIII series is not a good Final Fantasy series compared to the others, but I believe it's a good series on its own.

ok i think we get it by now

 

But um

 

I don't think it's quite a valid argument to say a game was in some way objectively good just because it got a sequel - especially when the sequel was made to address complaints, or simply to make more money off of the Final Fantasy XIII name, rather. The sales drop between XIII and XIII-2 was significant enough that XIII-2 was considered a commercial disappointment, even if the amount it sold was considered successful by most standards. Most people who played XIII hated it and didn't want to buy the sequel. Those that did buy the sequel were either those such as me and you who enjoyed the original XIII and those that just bought it because it was a Final Fantasy game.

 

And I'm fairly certain the latter group far outnumbers the former.

 

Also, the level of critical acclaim most certainly cannot be used as a determining factor as to whether or not a game is somehow objectively good, either. You brought up DmC yourself, after all, and there's also Metroid: Other M, Sonic and the Secret Rings, Sonic 4: Episode 1, Paper Mario: Sticker Star, Heavy Rain, pretty much every Call of Duty after the original Modern Warfare...all games that got fairly good or even great reviews from critics, but a divided or perhaps even abysmal reception from the gaming public and for more or less valid reasons. It's all a matter of opinion, of course (though there are some who would debate even that), but that's pretty much the point here. You're acting like there's some sort of blatantly obvious modicum of quality beyond mere technical competence that anyone with half a brain cell should be able to see, but no one sees it except for you.

 

And again, honestly, why not describe what makes the XIII series so great for you? Please, if you want to convince us, you have to be prepared to present your argument. Why do you love XIII and XIII-2, and why should the "hate brigade" not be so hateful?

[redhellc]

So...by your logic, Sonic Generations sold well because it has "Sonic" in its title. Not because it's a good game. Transformed sold well because it has "Sonic" in the title (If it was just called Sega All-Stars Transformed, with Sonic's face in the background of the cover art, would it still sell?)

 

Mario Galaxy sold fantastically well because it has "Super Mario" on the title...see where I'm going with this?

 

True, I understand that the XIII series sold well with the help of its name. But you can't say it sold well, only because of its name which you guys are/were telling me. I could easily point to XIV, as an example to say you're wrong. Crap/bad games get bad sales. That is WHAT to be expected, regardless of how famous the franchise is. 

 

How Aliens managed to get over a million sales, it's because of the help of its name. But it was so bad, Sega admits that, the reception of the game was poor...you just can't see Sega announcing the sequel to the series with the current developers. You can even say "Lucky Sega".

 

Also, not all top franchises with top names instantly get mega sales, look at DmC even with high positive critic reception. It's struggling to break a million copies! 

 

I already admitted the XIII series is not a good Final Fantasy series compared to the others, but I believe it's a good series on its own.

Well by that logic Sonic 06 should have had bad sales too, which wasn't the case. And the examples you gave are games that had a better reception than XIII, and even those games had a lot of help from their names.

 

Also one thing, critic reception isn't the most important reception, the public in general is. Even if the critics reception is a good one, if the public reception is bad, whatever the reason why, the sales will be less. That's the case of the new DMC, yeah the game could be good(never played it), but one thing I know is that since announced the game had an overall bad reception. Sure it got better after release, but there are still people who don't like it and others that refuse to buy it, that is showed by the sales.

 

Besides I never said the XIII saga is a bad one, I said it was mediocre for me. You can say what is mediocre for me could be good for others, but that as to do with the standards of people.

 

In the end being a bad game doesn't grant it bad sales, we don't live in a black and white world. But the fact is that the name Final Fantasy as a lot of influence, and that can make the difference between a successful game and a flop.   

[KrazyBean]

Shana, you're a Sonic fan, you should be familiar with critics being terrible at their job already.

 

You want to know what would make most people shut up? If Square makes a game like this:

 

 

 

 

No, i'm serious. Square, make something just like it. This game not only is much more worthy of the Final Fantasy name, but it's an objectively much better game than both XIII games combined.

 

...I pretty much agree with this. I personally got enjoyment out of the XIII games, hell I even 100% XIII-2, but I'll swap those games in a heartbeat to play Ni No Kuni instead (but I can't, no PS3 =\).

Edited April 8, 2013 by KrazyBean

[MegasonicZX]

God I wanna get that game so bad. I would also like it if final fantasy adopted some type of ARPG style to be honest. Especially since developers are throwing out bland RPG's by the second here (strategy ones, except maybe for P4G).

[Xenos]

Turn-Based RPG's are perfectly fine, they just have to work harder for you to get into the combat system, story and characters, and the like.

 

Frankly, I would much rather have a system like FF7's which was clear, concise, simple-yet-deep and it didn't feel like a detriment to play (aside from the random battles....I hate random battles).

 

So far from what I've played of the 13 series as a whole, it's way too much going on within the screen and nothing is sticking out at all, it looks like this to me:

 

FF7: BOLT3 *SHHHKSSHBOOOOMSCREENFLASH*

 

FF13-2: ruin *skew, skew psh*

 

So yeah, not really fun to me.

[pppp]

God I wanna get that game so bad. I would also like it if final fantasy adopted some type of ARPG style to be honest.

 

Well, that's what Versus is doing.

[\Lennox]

 

Well, that's what Versus is doing.

 

Technically, that was already done by the Crystal Chronicles series, but Crisis Core and Type-0 really brought this sort of gameplay into full force. Even then, the battle systems displayed are also known as ATB much like in Final Fantasies IV through IX (souped up in X-2 and Crisis Core and pimped in here), but the forced cooldown between attacks is much, much faster. Here's a gameplay vid of what is possibly the best FF game since XII (for me, anyway). XD

 

Edited April 9, 2013 by Lennox

[pppp]

Technically, that was already done by the Crystal Chronicles series, but Crisis Core and Type-0 really brought this sort of gameplay into full force. Even then, the battle systems displayed are also known as ATB much like in Final Fantasies IV through IX (souped up in X-2 and Crisis Core and pimped in here), but the forced cooldown between attacks is much, much faster. Here's a gameplay vid of what is possibly the best FF game since XII (for me, anyway). XD

 

 

 

I'm still so mad this wasn't localized. It even has a world map with full airship control. It's like Square wants us to hate them:

 

[MegasonicZX]

Well, that's what Versus is doing.

yeah but versus is taking literal ages though but you make a good point.

[pppp]

OK guys here's a contest we can have, the one on the left is from XIII, the middle one is from LR and the one on the right is from XIII-2, pick your favorite Lightning:

 

 

 

I pick...the one on the left because it's the one that was in Dissidia.

 

Also as if anyone actually likes the suit, they actually made an action figure:

 

 

 

 

 

I think even the biggest nerds would be ashamed to have this on their shelf

Edited April 16, 2013 by pppp

[Sami]

I pick the one on the left because it actually looks good. 

 

 

Her clothes look like they're actually clothes, it looks stylistic, and despite not looking efficient in battle (lol short skirt), it's also not completely stupid.

 

Everything else is cringe-worthy.

[T-Min]

Left is MAI WAIFU.

 

Right is ew.

 

Middle is euughheuughheuuUEEEEGGHH.

[SIXTH-RATE SOMA]

Left looks like a model. Not like a runway model, like a collector's item.

 

Right looks stoned or drunk.

 

Middle at least looks human, but has abhorent fashion sense.

[Emmett L. Brown]

" I never wanted to be a game designer. I wanted to be...

 

A FASION DESIGNER!

 

Belts, zippers and asymetrical clothing for all! More belts! More zippers! No article of clothing should match on opposite limbs! "