Unpopular Sonic opinions!

[---]

And so it was discovered that my opinion on cameras is very unpopular with Mr. Diogenes.

He's been just really grumpy lately, I dunno, it should pass. Anyway, pingas. Edited June 1, 2012 by SuperJXJ

[Your Vest Friend]

This is less unpopular here and more unpopular in certain other fan communities, but it has to be said...

What is the fucking deal with treating Mephiles as some quirky little character who's just a bit more cynical and down-to-Earth than the rest of the cast? He's not an individual person, he's the personification of a demonic monster's conscience. Being able to manipulate and scheme doesn't stop him from just being a part of a bigger entity.

[Nepenthe]

I personally don't understand how people find Mephiles particularly calculating when apparently all he had to do was get the Chaos Emeralds himself and just merge with Iblis in the future. What was the point of waiting for Elise to form a relationship with Sonic before killing him in order for her to release Iblis when said demon was happily running amok in Silver's time? Why did he try to get Shadow on board with him when his entire plan was to wipe everything out of existence forever. Nothing he did made sense.

[Burnt Ash]

I agree with the guy a few posts back, I want the talking in game feature back, but OF COURSE reviewers are gonna bash it because it's not quiet as a mouse Nintendo styled.

As long as the talking in game is limited, I'm alright. I just watched my friend play Xenoblade Chronicles, and the only thing I hated about it was the in-game dialogue.

[-Mark-]

Sonic Riders is my second favourite Sonic game of all time; just below Sonic Adventure 2, just above Generations.

I think Jet's an awesome character. He's perfect as an actual speed rival (I know, hoverboards, but realistically nobody could legitimately compete with Sonic in a straight-up footrace). He's not a fighting rival, he's not evil, etc. And he gets some nice development throughout the Riders trilogy.

I also think Sonic 06 had a better plot than anything that's come since. Yes, it was a mess and full of plotholes, but at least it tried. After that, things have just got lighter, fluffier and more throwaway with each new game. I also don't think Sonic 06's plot was 'too dark'; it's not really any darker than either of the Sonic Adventure games were, really. The only difference is the more realistic designs etc giving that impression.

Edited June 1, 2012 by -Mark-

[Vertekins]

I personally don't understand how people find Mephiles particularly calculating when apparently all he had to do was get the Chaos Emeralds himself and just merge with Iblis in the future. What was the point of waiting for Elise to form a relationship with Sonic before killing him in order for her to release Iblis when said demon was happily running amok in Silver's time? Why did he try to get Shadow on board with him when his entire plan was to wipe everything out of existence forever. Nothing he did made sense.

I thought that he couldn't merge with Iblis in the future because it had established itself in a form that was impossible to merge with?

The story directly states that Iblis was released in the Crisis City timeline when Elise was killed onboard the Egg Carrier. This basically states that killing Elise would release Iblis. So unless Mephiles was oblivious to this bit of news, there was no reason for him to do anything more complex than simply murder Elise himself. Even if he was leading Silver on for shits and giggles, there was no reason to get him involved at all.

[Sega DogTagz]

Why did he try to get Shadow on board with him when his entire plan was to wipe everything out of existence forever. Nothing he did made sense.

[Nepenthe]

I thought that he couldn't merge with Iblis in the future because it had established itself in a form that was impossible to merge with?

The story directly states that Iblis was released in the Crisis City timeline when Elise was killed onboard the Egg Carrier. This basically states that killing Elise would release Iblis. So unless Mephiles was oblivious to this bit of news, there was no reason for him to do anything more complex than simply murder Elise himself. Even if he was leading Silver on for shits and giggles, there was no reason to get him involved at all.

[Your Vest Friend]

He's not a fighting rival

[Sega DogTagz]

If he wanted revenge, why not just spear him like he did Sonic? I would certainly enjoy having the capability to spear people with random purple energy and, if I were evil, I'd probably use it immediately, over and over again, on the guy who I felt locked me away unfairly. After all, Shadow did let him get exceedingly close when they "first" met. Prime opportunity right there to do something pal.

Before Shadow made it absolutely clear that he could not be corrupted, Mephi displayed a clear intent that he was interested in hurting Shadow both mentally and physically. You cant do that if you simply killed the guy. His revenge plot was long and drawn out as an opportunity to get Shadows friends to turn against him. As far as Mephi was concerned, he wanted Shadow to suffer under the weight of who he was, a damning fate which he had left behind on the Ark during the previous game.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Sega DogTagz

[Aquaslash]

I want to know what happened to Metal Sonic after Heroes.

This is actually well known already. Eggman dismantled him, put his original engine in one of the E-10000s, and then not only rebuilt him. but wiped his memory and AI clean in the process. This explains where his modern look came from (let's just ignore Sonic 4's meddling) and why in almost every game after that, he was a mindless minion.

[Ferno]

Did making a girl cry really need a plot that convoluted?

Mephiles: "And now.... for my very elaborate and college-educated plan."

"Hey Elise- I hate your hair! "

Elise: "D: ... But...I... that's not.... ;-;...I worked so hard on it....wa...WAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHH~~~! ;A;"

*Iblis is freed*

Edited June 2, 2012 by Inferno

[Doubled32]

I've beaten these arguments on Knuckles and the ME to death, but the one that gets me is how he should abandon it like Shadow did with his past.

Let me just say that a character abandoning his traumatizing past is much MUCH different than a character abandoning an all-powerful gemstone that keeps 7 other god-like gemstones in control.

Hence why it is an unpopular opinion I'm just going to leave it at that because I don't want to start an argument.

- How is Amy classified as a speed type character in most of the games she's in? I never understood that. In Adventure and 06 (despite everyone being slow in that game, to which she was considerably slower than the others), she is slow just like normal characters. Yet, somehow in Heroes and Riders, she can suddenly go fast? Granted Riders might be justified since type could depend on what gear you choose, but still. I'd much rather consider her a Power type, I mean come on! I think Big would have trouble lifting that hammer of hers.

- Speaking of Big, while I don't necessarily like Big, nor hate him, he is underrated. He's got a child like innocence about him that I find amusing, and what's cooler than a guy willing to go to the ends of the earth just to save his best friend? I'll be the first to admit that I don't want Adventure gameplay back, but if he played like he did in Heroes, then I'd use him anyway I could (even in multiplayer).

- If I haven't already said this, the Rivals series deserve more praise than they get. The level designs are gorgeous, the plots are interesting, and it plays very similarly to Advance (though they are slower). Perhaps it wasn't as popular because it only had an NA release and only on the PSP? I'll admit that probably wasn't the best move on their part, but if they made a Rivals 3, then I'd get it. Though I think that we could work actual cutscenes in instead of just text. Also, there needs to be more variability between characters, but other than that I love it.

- Treasure Hunting in the Adventure series is underrated. IMO, they make things more varied in the usual get to the goal style gameplay. Granted, I'd be okay if was just side missions, but I still like it and think that they should expand upon it.

- I don't see why so many people complained about the different colored Sonics in Colors (If SEGA made the re-colors, then it's fine, yeesh, look at Shadow for Solaris's sake). I'll admit, I'd rather use different character in general, but the concept is rather interesting. Eggman made these Sonics (I'm assuming anyway), and they seem almost perfectly like Sonic, more so than Metal. If SEGA decided to expand upon this, like making two Sonic copies (like the black or red ones) Eggman's henchmen, then I think things would get rather interesting.

-If they decided to make more "monsters of the week" and handle them like they did in Generations, then I wouldn't mind. I mean, I don't want Eggy to just be outshined by these monsters he tries to take over all the time, but if he retained control over it like Generations, or hell, even made a mechanical replica of a monster, then I think it would work just fine. (Which reminds me, where the hell does Eggman get his funds for all of this? XD I mean, you have to buy materials to make even a small robot. Perhaps Eggman started borrowing from Gerald and then just built his own means of harvesting the materials?)

And finally:

- I think Eggman should totally pull a Dr. Cortex and make some evil allies. No, not just robots he built, like actual evil characters (that don't later turn out to be good like Knuckles or Shadow did). It would be a great way to see more interactions with him and other characters (like a villain that constantly contradicts him).

[Nepenthe]

Oh yeah, the monsters of the week. I like the monsters of the week. They're all designed in such a wacky and distinctly-Japanese manner and have all sorts of different motivations ranging from a primal need to destroy everything to retribution for the sins of the past. Their arenas can be waterlogged cities, the sky and space, or freaking alternate dimensions, and a lot of them have kinetic and energy attacks like laser beams and fire swords and eggs and things. They're like legendary Pokemon gone wild. On this front alone, I found them more interesting than Eggman for the final boss, nor did I ever agree with the thought that they are any more predictable than Eggman considering it's rarely any big surprise what will happen whenever Eggman takes the reins of a machine to fight you at any point in the game. I don't lose sleep over their utilization.

[jon93]

Speaking off topic about Metal Sonic, why do you think he went insane in Heroes, I mean at this certain point in time? Like, why not go insane right after the events of sonic 4 or something like that?

[Alice Twilight]

Speaking off topic about Metal Sonic, why do you think he went insane in Heroes, I mean at this certain point in time? Like, why not go insane right after the events of sonic 4 or something like that?

He was sick of Eggman holding him back. He had already developed free will in Sonic 4 anyway.

(See the stardust speedway race in Episode 2)

And he wasn't really insane he just had a voice and he was dead set on beating Sonic this time.

[Tori Himemiya]

Speaking off topic about Metal Sonic, why do you think he went insane in Heroes, I mean at this certain point in time? Like, why not go insane right after the events of sonic 4 or something like that?

He wanted to be better than Sonic. That would make anyone go insane. Also Eggman was in his way and it was convenient to just lock him up. You know Eggman wouldn't want revenge like Metal Sonic did so yeah.

[---]

Metal Sonic, the only one who dares to defy plot-armor.

[Johnny Boy]

- I don't think Mighty should be brought back. The chemistry between Espio, Charmy, and Vector is good enough for me.

- Come to think of it I don't want Ray, Bean, and Bark to be brought back as well. The generations cameos were fine enough.

- Orbot and Cubot should appear in more games and should interact with Metal Sonic.

- I think Perfect Chaos is superior to the Biolizard. Why you may ask? Because with Chaos, you had someone with a defined backstory and plus there was a lot of build up to the final boos fight because you kept seeing chaos change forms with each emerald he absorbed. So when you see him as Perfect Chaos it ends up being a pretty epic moment. With the Biolizard I got none of that because the plot of adventure 2 spent most of it's time focusing on sonic's crew, the introduction of shadow, and a big government conspiracy. Because the plot spent a majority of it's time focusing on the previously mentioned things, when the biolizard shows up it just really felt like one big asspull to me because unlike chaos there was no mentioning of this lint previously in the game and there was no buildup to it what so ever.

[Indigo Rush]

This is actually well known already. Eggman dismantled him, put his original engine in one of the E-10000s, and then not only rebuilt him. but wiped his memory and AI clean in the process. This explains where his modern look came from (let's just ignore Sonic 4's meddling) and why in almost every game after that, he was a mindless minion.

[Alice Twilight]

- I think Perfect Chaos is superior to the Biolizard. Why you may ask? Because with Chaos, you had someone with a defined backstory and plus there was a lot of build up to the final boos fight because you kept seeing chaos change forms with each emerald he absorbed. So when you see him as Perfect Chaos it ends up being a pretty epic moment. With the Biolizard I got none of that because the plot of adventure 2 spent most of it's time focusing on sonic's crew, the introduction of shadow, and a big government conspiracy. Because the plot spent a majority of it's time focusing on the previously mentioned things, when the biolizard shows up it just really felt like one big asspull to me because unlike chaos there was no mentioning of this lint previously in the game and there was no buildup to it what so ever.

[---]

Well to see it from a different perspective, maybe Sonic Team felt bad about spoiling the final boss in Adventure in the intro so they decided to do almost the complete opposite in Adventure 2.

Edited June 2, 2012 by SuperJXJ

[azoo]

Oh yeah, the monsters of the week. I like the monsters of the week. They're all designed in such a wacky and distinctly-Japanese manner and have all sorts of different motivations ranging from a primal need to destroy everything to retribution for the sins of the past. Their arenas can be waterlogged cities, the sky and space, or freaking alternate dimensions, and a lot of them have kinetic and energy attacks like laser beams and fire swords and eggs and things. They're like legendary Pokemon gone wild. On this front alone, I found them more interesting than Eggman for the final boss, nor did I ever agree with the thought that they are any more predictable than Eggman considering it's rarely any big surprise what will happen whenever Eggman takes the reins of a machine to fight you at any point in the game. I don't lose sleep over their utilization.

[Nepenthe]

I never had a problem with them being the final boss as much as the fact that it tends to totally undermine Eggman's ability as a mad scientist. It always bothered me that Dr. Eggman, being such the mad evil genius he is, is constantly so helpless to these massive monsters. It makes any of his credibility as a big-time villain seem heavily tampered.

Honestly, I love ST's random monster-of-the-weeks. They're so cheesy and crazy that they're lovable, in a sense. I just wish they'd make a twist where Eggman suddenly takes control of it and both of them rock it out as the Big Bad. Or something like that. I dunno. Just as long as it doesn't consist of Eggman siding with Sonic, or being blown away without a chance.

True; I see what you mean, and I certainly wouldn't be adversed to that kind of a twist. But then again, I've always felt that Eggman's high IQ stacked against his own grievous miscalculations and bad habits inherently served to undermine him anyway whether or not Cthulu was in play. The best bits featuring Eggman have never really featured his demise at the end, because we all know his demise is going to be had due in part to some huge oversight on his part: rather, Eggman feels best when he's winning most of the time and serves as a constant obstacle through the course of a journey, when Sonic has had it up to his own head with him and has to really dig his heels to get the job done. So yes, while Eggman is able to break in a beast in Generations versus getting blasted by one in Adventure, I find the latter to be a better display of the character overall.

(Also, best signature. )

Edited June 2, 2012 by Nepenthe

[batson]

Actually Biolizard was better because they kept talking about a failed experiment and you never even knew what is was or if it's even going to be in the game. It wasn't talked about much either so for all we know we could've been fighting egg man at the end.

The last boss was a big mystery. And that's the sort of thing I like.

I felt that both Chaos and Biolizard were well done. With Chaos you had all the build up, and with Biolizard you had the "Holy fuck, i did not expect THAT!" (and the reason why the surprise element worked so well with Biolizard is because this was at a point in the series where nobody yet assumed that the final boss was going to be a giant monster. For all we knew at the time, Chaos could have been a one-time deal).

However, when you take in consideration all the later monsters-of-the-week that the series would see, both Chaos and Biolizard lose a lot of their appeal and get "lost in the crowd". So it's probably best to just not try to think about those other MotW when replaying the Adventure games...