All-Stars Racing Transformed: The Track Roster Thread

[Blue Blood]

So it's the name then?

Oh wait... Maybe Triangles *would* be better. After all.

(Except it's debatable whether it's as iconic as squares)

Squares, triangles. schmiangles...

It sometimes feels like you guys want to argue for arguments sake.

Okay I wanted to stay out of this but now I'm feeling a little offended.

The point is that that there are other stages as iconic of the Sonic brand as Green Hill and Seaside Hill that haven't been used. And that's it. People are dismayed by the fact that we keep going back to the same things when there's more available. Seaside Hill, Green Hill, Palmtree Panic, Splash Hill, Angel Island and Emerald Hill all fit the same boots. They're all as recognisable as each other to everyone, but the fans can appreciate their differences.

This post was just try and clear things up. To reiterate, I'm still looking forward to playing the game very much.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Blue Blood

[SumoRex]

So Rex, why instead of pick an actual level from Sonic, why not create something that represents it world? A brand new level. You know, like S0L said, old temples, grass and tropical feeling.

There you go, and actual intelligent question. And an opiniion, not a gripe. Guys you can learn from Jango!

Hmmm it's a good question buddy.

I think that for All Stars part of the methodology behind the thinking is that we do some *very* recognisable stuff, and then we also try to get in some less well known stuff. The old games where there is no 3d version are our attempts to try and bring something new to the table... However, a totally new Sonic level (in my mind) is a bit beyond our remit. I think The All Stars titles are more for remembering things old, and new, famous and forgotten.

Thanks for that. I dunno maybe we'll give it some thougt if we do end up working on another All Stars title...

[Jango]

Yeah, I think the main thought here is:

Doesn't matter if the levels shares similarities, as long as they are new, never seen in 3D/HD before.

You see, you already know how Green Hill and Seaside Hill looks in 3D and HD many times, and yes, both are visualy similar, but with their specific gimmicks. There's nothing wrong about these level, the problem I dig here is that these levels are used WAY to much. PalmTree Panic and Emerald Hill are similar to Green Hill? OF COURSE! But they were never seen in 3D/HD, that means a lot to people since Generations came up with that idea. I have to say, PPZ will make an great choice for a classic Sonic track (green/tropical trope), since Sonic CD is fresh on people memory.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Jango

[Marcello]

Sonic fans *may* be fed up with the checker pattern but they can't deny it's Sonic looking. If you put it on the box on the shelf, people will know what they are looking at from across the store. Even Grandmas buying for their Grand-kids xmas prezzie know what they're getting if it has the checker pattern

What? I seriously doubt that. They'll maybe be buying because of Sonic being in it, but I doubt parents or those grandmas buy it because they see the checker pattern.

[FourCartridge]

It still could be Rampart Road they're talking about, I doubt it'd be too hard to confuse the two names.

And I'd doubt it'd be easy to confuse Epilepsy Casino with Frozen-Over Castle.

Can we get a confirmation SUMO, Just to be sure?

[buba]

There you go, and actual intelligent question. And an opiniion, not a gripe. Guys you can learn from Jango!

So asking why there is another Seaside Hill track instead of another stage from the long history of Sonic levels is a stupid question? And because I don't agree with whatever you think it is a gripe and not an opinion?

Oh, okay!

Edited October 5, 2012 by Tmsp

[SumoRex]

i thought you guys are meant to be SEGA buffs? i'm sorry you must be blind if you can't see why Seaside Hill's inclusion is making the majority of us sour after it being in winter olympics, the previous racer, London Olympics and Generations last year.

its not about a bunch of squares and being iconic, it's about re-imagining a track we haven't already seen in HD, like Palm Tree Panic, Emerald Hill etc. this is frustrating for Sonic fans especially.

i thought you guys are meant to be SEGA buffs? i'm sorry you must be blind if you can't see why Seaside Hill's inclusion is making the majority of us sour after it being in winter olympics, the previous racer, London Olympics and Generations last year.

its not about a bunch of squares and being iconic, it's about re-imagining a track we haven't already seen in HD, like Palm Tree Panic, Emerald Hill etc. this is frustrating for Sonic fans especially.

I can see it, I just think it's funny to see the steam coming from your bright red ears. That's why we do it.

We aren't here to make your dreams come true... It's a game. We make it the best we can make it. You'll play it and you'll love it, I dunno why you're bickering tbh...

Okay I wanted to stay out of this but now I'm feeling a little offended.

The point is that that there are other stages as iconic of the Sonic brand as Green Hill and Seaside Hill that haven't been used. And that's it. People are dismayed by the fact that we keep going back to the same things when there's more available. Seaside Hill, Green Hill, Palmtree Panic, Splash Hill, Angel Island and Emerald Hill all fit the same boots. They're all as recognisable as each other to everyone, but the fans can appreciate their differences.

This post was just try and clear things up. To reiterate, I'm still looking forward to playing the game very much.

Don't get dismayed. It's a game. You love Sonic preumably, and it's got Sonic in it. Is it the realisation of your deepest dream? ...No. Will you buy it and play it and enjoy it... I think yes. Even though it's got Seaside Hills in it *again*.

Don't be offended. We're all friends in here...

[Djawed]

I think like all of you at Sumo, we just wantrhis game to be the best thing there is. And to see you all doing so great and then ultimatly dropping the ball brings up thoughts of how much more possible it could be had there decisions been made that would make the game better. It's just kind of sad imo

Edited October 5, 2012 by Djawed

[SumoRex]

Yeah, I think the main thought here is:

Doesn't matter if the levels shares similarities, as long as they are new, never seen in 3D/HD before.

You see, you already know how Green Hill and Seaside Hill looks in 3D and HD many times, and yes, both are visualy similar, but with their specific gimmicks. There's nothing wrong about these level, the problem I dig here is that these levels are used WAY to much. PalmTree Panic and Emerald Hill are similar to Green Hill? OF COURSE! But they were never seen in 3D/HD, that means a lot to people since Generations came up with that idea. I have to say, PPZ will make an great choice for a classic Sonic track (green/tropical trope), since Sonic CD is fresh on people memory.

Good points taken on board. Thanks. I *still* can't promise it won't happen again, but I'll mention it when decisions are being made next time. How's that? xx

I think like all of you at Sumo, we just wantrhis game to be the best thing there is. And to see you all doing so great and then ultimatly dropping the ball brings up thoughts of how much better it could (be) have been with decisions that would support that. It's just kind of sad imo

Sad, maybe for a few really hardcore fans possibly. But I don't see it costing SEGA any sales TBH. That's not really dropping the ball is it?

Has it fulfilled your desires? No. Will you buy it? Well that remains to be seen. I think having GHZ on the box sells more copies than it looses... I think that's a slam dunk for SEGA personally.

[ArtFenix]

Sonic fans *may* be fed up with the checker pattern but they can't deny it's Sonic looking. If you put it on the box on the shelf, people will know what they are looking at from across the store. Even Grandmas buying for their Grand-kids xmas prezzie know what they're getting if it has the checker pattern.

I'm sorry, Rex, but I don't think that makes much sence. Wouldn't the grandmas be looking for the Blue Blur himself on the cover? I reckon if they see a cover with Sonic himself on it they will buy the game no matter what stage is on the background.

Everything else about there are being a whole lot of other checkered tropical stages was covered by other guys. I don't think I have anything else to add.

You don't need any excuse but it sounded like one.

There you go, and actual intelligent question. And an opiniion, not a gripe.

Excuse me! It's not against the rules to complain on this board now, is it? And I don't want to seem rude. I may like some things and I may not like others and I can and will say it if I feel like it. I thought the greatest part about speaking with fans is that they can point out at something that they think is great/good/right/not right/wrong. Criticism is a pretty good way to make the product better.

Edited October 5, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Carbo]

I suggest you all chill out for a moment because as far as I'm concerned, everyone here is teetering into unreasonable territory.

Yes, people are tired of the constant Heroes representation and I do think this is something that is worth criticizing. At the same time it's logical for the developers to use this from design standpoints and the fact that it's recognizable. It's pretty much Green Hill 2.0, and hell, I even remember threads around the time of Generations when people actually started complaining about Green Hill Zone being overused as well. Ain't that some irony.

As much as a fanservice title this is, you're not going to get everything you want unfortunately and I think everyone in this topic needs to relax and get back on the same page here before we ruin the nice relations we have as a community.

[Detective Shadzter]

I'm sorry, S0L, but I don't think that makes much sence.

It's SumoRex you're quoting, not S0L. SumoRex is another dev.

[SumoRex]

Excuse me! It's not against the rules to complain on this board now, is it? And I don't wanted to seem rude. I may like some things and I may not like others and I can and will say it if I feel like it. I thought the greatest part about speaking with fans is that they can poit out at something that they think is great/good/right/not right/wrong. Criticism is a pretty good way to make the product better.

remember, that works both ways doesn't it? Or am I not supposed to be granted the same liberty?

I didn't target you personally there buddy. Did you think you were griping yourself perhaps?

Don't worry, it's ok to gripe. It's just won't actually get anyone very far... That's all.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Guys I don't actually mind a bit of heated debate... As long as we don't get too personal! You can say what you want to me. It's all cool!

Now, on your marks, 3 2 1 go for it.

Edited October 5, 2012 by SumoRex

[ArtFenix]

remember, that works both ways doesn't it? Or am I not supposed to be granted the same liberty?

Absolutely, but I don't think I tried to deprive you of this right)).

I didn't target you personally there buddy. Did you think you were griping yourself perhaps?

That's a relief..

Well I sure was not happy to see such rehashes again so I felt like saying it. Posts like mine are supposed to let you developers know how much we've been fed up with the likes of Greed Hill and Seaside Hill. Just like other posts are supposed to let you know how much we'd love to see Mecha Sonic in Sky Sanctuary .

Edited October 5, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Sega DogTagz]

Seaside Hill, Green Hill, Palmtree Panic, Splash Hill, Angel Island and Emerald Hill all fit the same boots.

You all know damn well that the world would have ended if Splash Hill got a track in this game.

[Marcello]

I'd have been curious to see Splash Hill. Just to see the plastic grass design done in a game with good graphics.

[JezMM]

I will admit, I'm more disappointed with Seaside Hill then I would have been with even Green Hill. I know, yeah, we've seen Green Hill a lot over the years, but we've only seen a full 3D version of it with HD quality graphics once. Whereas Seaside Hill has been represented in HD three times now including this game.

Honestly I'd have rather seen an original track that combined elements from all the green levels. A bit more inland to seperate it from Seaside Hill in ASR1, but with a CD-esque giant size shuttle loop, rolling yellow flowery fields as seen in Emerald Hill, some massive waterfalls and cliffs like in Splash Hill and Green Hill's HD reinvention, and then a ruins segment to throwback to Seaside Hill.

Oh, and if budget allowed, set the whole bloomin' place on fire for Lap 3 a la Angel Island!

I'm at least happy that Jacques went for a Sonic CD remix instead of more Heroes' stuff though. That at least will give the new one a fresh feeling.

Just kinda sad that Sonic is only really getting one "brand new" track in Starlight Carnival. Granted we haven't seen your take on Sky Sanctuary yet so I'll hold back my gripes a bit. I'm sure they will be all fun to play of course, but... yeah. I know the Sonic fans are already spoiled by having more content than all the other IPs, but it still is a bit of a damper that it feels like the Sonic IP's potential "wow" factor has been spread so thinly across that content, while all the other IPs are getting these phenomenal new tracks, Sonic is just kinda... same old same old. I guess that kind of comes with the territory of adapting a series that has had more 3D games than 2D, but still, it's sad that the 2D locations you're using have already been remade in 3D in previous games.

Maybe I'll change my tune when I get to actually play Starlight Carnival and Sky Sanctuary though. Don't let me down guys. =C

Edited October 5, 2012 by JezMM

[Marcello]

I will admit, I'm more disappointed with Seaside Hill then I would have been with even Green Hill. I know, yeah, we've seen Green Hill a lot over the years, but we've only seen a full 3D version of it with HD quality graphics once. Whereas Seaside Hill has been represented in HD three times now including this game.

Twice, actually. It was in Superstars Tennis.

[ArtFenix]

Twice, actually. It was in Superstars Tennis.

Three times. Smash Bros Brawl. xD Not HD graphics but still... xD Edited October 5, 2012 by ArtFenix

[Sega DogTagz]

Isn't this new stage more Ocean Palace than Seaside Hill anyway?

splitting hairs I know, but its something right?

[Djawed]

@rex

Good points taken on board. Thanks. I *still* can't promise it won't happen again, but I'll mention it when decisions are being made next time. How's that? xx

Sad, maybe for a few really hardcore fans possibly. But I don't see it costing SEGA any sales TBH. That's not really dropping the ball is it?

Has it fulfilled your desires? No. Will you buy it? Well that remains to be seen. I think having GHZ on the box sells more copies than it looses... I think that's a slam dunk for SEGA personally.

i'm sorry for not being clear sumo. Im not wih the croud complainging about seaside hill. Im upset with the overuse of sonic representation and I dont think that was such a great idea. Sonic is most popular yes but is it also the most apealing? No, it's hated and known for terrible things in the gaming community. This is where the other sega franchises would come in because they are alot more respected than sonic. The gaming community does not only exist of easily satisfied people so you wanna cater to them with well respected IP varieties SEGA is known for. That is just the way i see it though rex in support of my arguement. That sonic is being overly presented too much through the stages. I thought we were done after sky sanctuary and then a second returning track seems to be a sonic stage again. That's the part which makes me sad.

I will get the game because your efforts are good no matter how you put it. It's just some decisions.. so I hope DLC may remedy that problem in the future. Well hopefully if the game does well

Edited October 5, 2012 by Djawed

[JezMM]

Isn't this new stage more Ocean Palace than Seaside Hill anyway?

splitting hairs I know, but its something right?

Pretty much every appearence has combined elements of the two (which is good of course). I don't really consider them seperate strages though since Sonic Heroes basically uses "Act 1/Act 2" 7 zone structure. Ocean Palace is just Seaside Hill Act 2. I mean yeah the individual Heroes' levels have their own unique aesthetics, but so do the various Acts in S3&K and Sonic 4 Ep2. They're still very very similar stages.

Edited October 5, 2012 by JezMM

[JezMM]

Twice, actually. It was in Superstars Tennis.

Oh, missed this. I meant in FULL, not a little scene. I consider seeing a full-blown envioronment in a platformer or racer to be a whole different kettle of fish to a smaller area such as in a fighting or sports game.

(Apologies for double-post, I always get confused what the cut-off time is for double posts automatically combining with your last one lol).

Edited October 5, 2012 by JezMM

[Jango]

It could have been much better if Seaside Hill was mixed with another green zones from Sonic world, it would make it more original than just copy paste a whole level. It would even deal with the fact that "this is not a specific zone, but a track that shows what Sonic is all about". Isn't that what happened to all the others IPs? Why Sonic didn't get the same treatment?

So far we got Sky Sanctuary to represent the mega drive era, Seaside Hill for the DC era and Starlight Carnival for the current era. I don't think we're gonna see more Sonic tracks, besides the returning ones.

Edited October 5, 2012 by Jango

[Barry the Nomad]

For me, Seaside Hill is different enough in Transformed to be fresh. I mean, it has a giant robotic squid plus brand new music. Really, it looks more like a standard Sonic environment with beaches, palm trees and checkerboard hills than it does simply a rip of Heroes.