All-Stars Racing Transformed: The Track Roster Thread

[PsychoJosh]

Erm... From the wiki article:

"This series is well known for its emphasis on aggressive driving and high sense of speed. In-race rewards are given to a player if they take risks such as driving towards oncoming traffic or deliberately attempting to make their opponents crash."

Yeah that's real wholesome family entertainment there.

Have you even played Burnout? If you did you'd realize what a ridiculous argument this is. Driving into oncoming traffic isn't an evil vice that corrupts children. The cars go flying and explode in ridiculous and almost cartoony ways whenever they're crashed or traffic checked. You're traveling at insane speeds where you can barely react to things in front of you. It is very much a game that can be enjoyed by families. You're writing about it as if making cars crash is comparable to shooting hookers and stealing drugs in GTA.

I mean I'm not saying Burnout isn't appropriate for kids, I'm just saying... this is a racing game with cartoon characters, wacky items and weapons and vibrant envioronments. It's a no-brainer which one is aimed for both kids and adults alike.

Why would you wreck that by insisting on representing a game series designed exclusively for adults with adult content like horror and blood when it's perfectly recognisable without those elements?

People describe it as such but saying this game is full of "cartoon characters" doesn't quite hit the mark. It is still a Sega fanservice game so I just think it would be best to stay true to franchises in certain respects. If this were a Japan-developed game they'd do it without question. I mean Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64 both had a final boss that bleeds RED blood, and they're still mostly cute games as you're describing. These bosses still didn't affect its age rating. So I think simply having a little blood visible on the faces of zombies wouldn't hurt it too much. That's all I'm really asking for.

[JezMM]

Have you even played Burnout? If you did you'd realize what a ridiculous argument this is. Driving into oncoming traffic isn't an evil vice that corrupts children. The cars go flying and explode in ridiculous and almost cartoony ways whenever they're crashed or traffic checked. You're traveling at insane speeds where you can barely react to things in front of you. It is very much a game that can be enjoyed by families. You're writing about it as if making cars crash is comparable to shooting hookers and stealing drugs in GTA.

Well, firstly, don't be silly, I never compared Burnout to GTA, in fact I said:

I mean I'm not saying Burnout isn't appropriate for kids

Regardless my point is if Burnout is an E+10 game that means it is unsuitable for under 10's. If an under 10 went into a game store to buy it, it would be illegal to sell it to him. Considering Sonic is a franchise for all ages, I think it is perfectly acceptable to tone down the stuff from more mature franchises so young children can play. Let's try and not re-open the can of worms as to whether this is a Sonic game or a SEGA fanservice game though. It's both, so that still means it's a Sonic game too.

People describe it as such but saying this game is full of "cartoon characters" doesn't quite hit the mark. It is still a Sega fanservice game so I just think it would be best to stay true to franchises in certain respects. If this were a Japan-developed game they'd do it without question. I mean Kirby's Dream Land 3 and Kirby 64 both had a final boss that bleeds RED blood, and they're still mostly cute games as you're describing. These bosses still didn't affect its age rating. So I think simply having a little blood visible on the faces of zombies wouldn't hurt it too much. That's all I'm really asking for.

The big difference here is that zombies are humanoid. A little blood is alright in games like Kirby because the characters are wholly unrealistic. It's when you start having violence or gore related to human-resembling characters that the rating boards get picky. It's why a game like Worms can have shotguns being fired point-blank and still get kid-friendly ratings, while Smash Bros gets a 12+ rating.

Edited July 24, 2012 by JezMM

[PsychoJosh]

Well, firstly, don't be silly, I never compared Burnout to GTA, in fact I said:

Regardless my point is if Burnout is an E+10 game that means it is unsuitable for under 10's. If an under 10 went into a game store to buy it, it would be illegal to sell it to him.

No it wouldn't. There are a couple of things wrong with this statement. First, what you said only applies to M-rated games. Kids of any age can buy any game they want as long as it's not M rated. Second, it is NOT actually illegal to sell kids games intended for players beyond their age group. Retailers simply choose not to do this, because they don't want to deal with bitchy soccer moms, so they don't sell kids M-rated games without the consent of a parent or guardian. Actually, the legality of selling M-rated games to minors might vary by region, but it is certainly not illegal in the US, Canada or the UK. Making the sale of games like this illegal to certain customers would be a litigious nightmare that would be disastrous for the whole industry. Age ratings do not actually have any legal bearing by themselves.

The big difference here is that zombies are humanoid. A little blood is alright in games like Kirby because the characters are wholly unrealistic. It's when you start having violence or gore related to human-resembling characters that the rating boards get picky. It's why a game like Worms can have shotguns being fired point-blank and still get kid-friendly ratings, while Smash Bros gets a 12+ rating.

That's not true at all. Red blood is itself the touchy subject regardless of where it comes from. Animals could also bleed red blood and it would set off alarms. But I'm not proposing that the HOTD zombies splatter red all over the screen when you hit them with your car. I just think they should look scary instead of being a bunch of ugly featureless grey guys.

[Clisp]

When can we expect the ESRB rating thingy to be done? They kinda leaked Ulala in the previous game so I'm hoping something similar happens again.

[JezMM]

Actually, the legality of selling M-rated games to minors might vary by region, but it is certainly not illegal in the US, Canada or the UK.

Actually uhh, yes it is. In the UK anyway. At the very least, game store employees can risk losing their job for selling games to people below the age rating.

Anyway, even if it's just a texture job, realistic looking bloodied up zombies have no place in what is primarily a Sonic game for all ages.

[KHCast]

Yet Unleashed got away with that dark gaia cgi cut-scene. Yes it wasn't red blood, but blood nonetheless. If they can do that, then they I guess could do a texture change on zombies. Although I honestly don't care that much. Just putting my two cents in.

[JezMM]

Yet Unleashed got away with that dark gaia cgi cut-scene. Yes it wasn't red blood, but blood nonetheless. If they can do that, then they I guess could do a texture change on zombies. Although I honestly don't care that much. Just putting my two cents in.

That was 4 years ago now though. That doesn't seem to be the image they're going for with the series these days.

[R.C.]

Well, just throwing this out there:

Shadow The Hedgehog was originally aimed to be a T-Rated game, with a lot more swearing & red blood, but Sonic Team toned it down to a E10 rating, so it would sell more.

At least, that's what I heard.

So, it would only make sense to tone-down HOTD, even if it was not banned in Germany.

I must give my honest thumbs up to SUMO DIGITAL's name change, though. If it wasn't called "The House Of The Dead", it probably would have been called "Curien Mansion". Good job, guys!

Now, as far as a HOTD track goes, I'm really interested to see what they come up with. I bet it will be cool & imaginative.

[PsychoJosh]

Actually uhh, yes it is. In the UK anyway. At the very least, game store employees can risk losing their job for selling games to people below the age rating.

I've never heard of anything like this. That's utterly ridiculous if it's true. Productive citizens will commit a crime if they sell a game rated PEGI 12 to a child of 6?

Games like those are not restricted for sale here in North America, nor should they be.

[WarioBone]

I've never heard of anything like this. That's utterly ridiculous if it's true. Productive citizens will commit a crime if they sell a game rated PEGI 12 to a child of 6?

Games like those are not restricted for sale here in North America, nor should they be.

There's a limit, though. You said "Selling M-Rated games to minors", which is a damn sure illegal here in America, or if it isn't, it's general policy for most retailers. You need to present an ID to buy an M-Rated game, because children shouldn't be exposed to the things in those games. I'll be damned if I'll be letting my kids blow peoples' heads off in Fallout -insert number above 3 here- or chop zombies to pieces in some gory zombie game.

Selling an E-10 game to a child who's underaged is no problem, but when you start talking like 10-year-olds should be able to march into GameStop and buy Gran Theft Auto or some shit, that's crossing the line. Retard parents who buy their kids CoD or GoW when they're 12 are the reason we have shit like the online of every fucking shooter ever.

But whatever, I really doubt having an actual zombie would be any different from having a grey guy. I don't know why people even care; you're only going to see them for like a quarter of a second anyway.

Edited July 25, 2012 by HyperMetalWario

[PsychoJosh]

There's a limit, though. You said "Selling M-Rated games to minors", which is a damn sure illegal here in America, or if it isn't, it's general policy for most retailers.

It's not illegal in the US. But considering you're an atrocious jerk who thinks he's right even when he isn't I'm not going to bother getting into this with you.

Here it is straight from the ESRB's website, proof that you're wrong.

Is it illegal to sell or rent M (Mature) or AO (Adults Only) rated games to customers under 17 and 18 years of age respectively?

A ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011 found that video games are a constitutionally-protected form of expression, and that laws restricting their sale or rental based upon violent content are unconstitutional. That said, ESRB supports retailers' voluntary policies restricting the sale or rental of M (Mature) and AO (Adults Only) computer and video games in the United States and Canada to customers who are at least 17 and 18 years of age, respectively (unless permission from a parent has been obtained).

See? It's a voluntary policy by game retailers whether or not to sell M-rated games to minors. This "presenting an ID" thing is something they do on their own to prevent controversy and backlash, not an actual legal requirement.

[KHCast]

dude psycho, i think you should also probably get off your high horse as well since your acting no better. and while it may not be illegal to sellnm games to minors, it's heavily looked down upon. might as well be illegal. it's a dumb idea to sell m rated games to minors anyway. but this is getting way off topic. so any hopes for what seaside hill will be like in this if it's in?

[FourCartridge]

dude psycho, i think you should also probably get off your high horse as well since your acting no better. and while it may not be illegal to sellnm games to minors, it's heavily looked down upon. might as well be illegal. it's a dumb idea to sell m rated games to minors anyway. but this is getting way off topic. so any hopes for what seaside hill will be like in this if it's in?

That it doesn't invoke massive complaints for being used for the umpteenth time? XD

Anyway, I'm expecting something like Green Hill. All the other tracks in the game seem to be generalizations, and when people think of Sonic levels, they think Green Hill.

[Lady Soniko]

ugh, more Green Hill >C

[SilentDoom]

So how bout them race tracks? I haven't really been following this all that much. Any cool new ones confirmed fairly recently? Mind you, I'm still flippin shit about that Panzer Dragoon track. Every time I see it in video clips I love it.

[Marcello]

HOTD isn't banned here, I believe, it just remains unreleased. You can easily go on Amazon and import the PEGI version ( I'm guessing from Austria in German). The whole thing about banning it because of zombies makes no sense, as we have other zombie games, like Resident Evil here. Unless the enemies arent considered zombies, I dunno, I think earlier games weren't released here, but I didn't live here back then.

Plus, I've seen this:

at stores, with the HOTD name on it. So I don't get that..

As for generalizations, I'm still pretty sure Sonic will be an exception and have specific stages.

Edited July 25, 2012 by MarcelloF

[FourCartridge]

So how bout them race tracks? I haven't really been following this all that much. Any cool new ones confirmed fairly recently? Mind you, I'm still flippin shit about that Panzer Dragoon track. Every time I see it in video clips I love it.

There's a NiGHTS track that got revealed at SoS, and a JSR one with some press release screenshots.

[Lady Soniko]

tracks are currently...

Temple Trouble - Monkey Ball

Dragon Canyon - Panzer Dragoon

Adder's Lair - Golden Axe

Graffiti City - Jet Set Radio

Death Egg Hangar - Sonic

Down Town Shibuya - Jet Set Radio

Dream/Nightmaren track - NiGHTS

not sure on the 3 remaining tracks returning, i think one is a monkey ball track, and another is a Samba track.

[FourCartridge]

The returning tracks so far are Shibuya, Egg Hangar, and Sunshine Tour. I'd say the last track is Billy Hatcher; It seems like too much to give Sonic 2 retro tracks, and a lot of people found the SMB ones frustrating.

[SilentDoom]

There's a NiGHTS track that got revealed at SoS, and a JSR one with some press release screenshots.

Ah yes I remember that one. That was in that little trailer that also revealed NiGHTs and Reala as vehicles wasn't it?

tracks are currently...

Temple Trouble - Monkey Ball

Dragon Canyon - Panzer Dragoon

Adder's Lair - Golden Axe

Graffiti City - Jet Set Radio

Death Egg Hangar - Sonic

Down Town Shibuya - Jet Set Radio

Dream/Nightmaren track - NiGHTS

not sure on the 3 remaining tracks returning, i think one is a monkey ball track, and another is a Samba track.

Ah cool! Thanks a lot for the list. I'm assuming the final game will have around 20 or so tracks? Since I believe the first one had about that. Although thinking about it since these tracks are essentially 3 tracks in one most of the time I wouldn't be surprised if there were fewer overall.

Edited July 25, 2012 by SiLeNt PyRrH0n

[FourCartridge]

Ah yes I remember that one. That was in that little trailer that also revealed NiGHTs and Reala as vehicles wasn't it?

Yeah, that one. In it you drive through both Nightopia and Nightmare, and while it's been shown that the Nightmare parts change, I'm wondering if that's true for Nightopia too.

[JezMM]

I've never heard of anything like this. That's utterly ridiculous if it's true. Productive citizens will commit a crime if they sell a game rated PEGI 12 to a child of 6?

Games like those are not restricted for sale here in North America, nor should they be.

My fiancé (Mollfie here on SSMB) used to work at GAME here in the UK and has just confirmed to me even selling a 12+ to an underage kid she wasn't allowed and could risk losing her job. If a parent was there you had to explain the content of the game to the parent before you could process the transaction. That applied to 7+ games too.

Looking at the original game, I see it was a 7+ here. If something as non-offensive as the original can get a 7+ I'm all but certain that realistic zombies would bump it up to a 12+, which as HyperMetalWario said, the zombies flash by in a second so I really don't think that's worth cutting out 5 years' worth of players.

Just because YOU think all kids under 12 can handle stuff for 12 year olds, it doesn't change the law and age rating systems. Better to be safe than sorry, and still doesn't change the fact that characters like Sonic, AiAi and Wreck-It Ralph racing past realistic bloody zombies as they appear in the HOTD games wouldn't be really inappropriate.

It's not illegal in the US. But considering you're an atrocious jerk who thinks he's right even when he isn't I'm not going to bother getting into this with you.

Whoa man, what the hell did HyperMetalWario do? Are you bringing drama from somewhere else in here because this is the first time he commented on our discussion and there was nothing jerkish about his post. =\

It's a voluntary policy by game retailers whether or not to sell M-rated games to minors. This "presenting an ID" thing is something they do on their own to prevent controversy and backlash, not an actual legal requirement.

Ignoring the fact that this proof only applies to the US anyway, doesn't change the fact that it's the right thing to do, legally bound to or not.

(I'd just like to apologise to the mods if this is too off-topic, I figured since no-one has poked in yet and/or there haven't been any new tracks to discuss in a while it's alright).

Edited July 25, 2012 by JezMM

[Barry the Nomad]

Ah cool! Thanks a lot for the list. I'm assuming the final game will have around 20 or so tracks? Since I believe the first one had about that. Although thinking about it since these tracks are essentially 3 tracks in one most of the time I wouldn't be surprised if there were fewer overall.

Track count looks to be 16, at least in the "story mode". Not sure if the four returning are in that count, or if they appear outside the floating islands map. If they do, then it's 20 (16+4) not including any battle arenas or missions which might remix tracks for the sake of the mission.

Edited July 25, 2012 by Barry the Nomad

[Solly]

tracks are currently...

Temple Trouble - Monkey Ball

Dragon Canyon - Panzer Dragoon

Adder's Lair - Golden Axe

Graffiti City - Jet Set Radio

Death Egg Hangar - Sonic

Down Town Shibuya - Jet Set Radio

Dream/Nightmaren track - NiGHTS

not sure on the 3 remaining tracks returning, i think one is a monkey ball track, and another is a Samba track.

Is anyone else concerned the old tracks might feel dated when played in the new game? Just a random thought, but are they going to be "adapted" or are they going to be direct ports? And will they accomodate the transforming vehicles, which the entire game is based around?

I guess I'm just kinda worried that after everything we've seen so far, this game is just an enormous leap ahead of the first racing game...Wow, that's actually a really stupid thing to be worried about.

It's not illegal in the US. But considering you're an atrocious jerk who thinks he's right even when he isn't I'm not going to bother getting into this with you.

Besides being way out of line, I don't even understand this statement. "Thinks he's right when he isn't"? That can be extended to anyone who's ever been wrong about anything. Thinking you're right when you aren't is a requirement of being wrong about something.

Not that he is entirely wrong, because like he said, even if it's not against the law, it IS a general policy for most retailers in the U.S. Most Gamespots I've been to enforce it pretty well, and they have for YEARS. Hell, I remember having to get my parents to buy some games for me back then.

But yeah, feel free to sling shit at other users over exactly nothing.

Anyway I don't think risking the zombie blood and gore stuff would be wise, even if it only earned it a slightly higher rating. Agree with it or not, there are people, mostly parents, who take issue with this kind of thing, or put a lot of faith in the rating system to tell them what is and isn't okay for their kids.

[Lady Soniko]

Is anyone else concerned the old tracks might feel dated when played in the new game? Just a random thought, but are they going to be "adapted" or are they going to be direct ports? And will they accomodate the transforming vehicles, which the entire game is based around?

I guess I'm just kinda worried that after everything we've seen so far, this game is just an enormous leap ahead of the first racing game...Wow, that's actually a really stupid thing to be worried about.

i actually questioned S0L about this... and he said they won't be adding transformation into it, however they are adding new things to the tracks to accommodate the much faster cars, so slight changes and new things i guess? but transformation gates are out of the question, its more of a "classic" feel i think.