Sonic the hedgehog 4 - previews, interviews, and impressions topic

[Blue Blood]

BUMP cause this is the impressions topic.

So you guys remember all the lost textures and sound files from the beta, showing that a teaser ending was planned but not in the game? Well here's the final build + all emeralds & red rings ending. Hope you're excited!

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Yeup. Nothing. Unless you're supposed to beat the boss as Super Sonic or something. But yeah, seems like SEGA really did plan for more than just E2, got shit scared by the response to E1 and thought it might be best to cut of S4 early before they commited to another Episode.

Oh and Super Sonic still has E1 physics. Dimps really are that lazy/dumb, and SEGA really do care that little.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Blue Blood

[JezMM]

I was hesitant but your percieved genuine excitement made me all but convinced that nothing was changed.

Well boy howdy. Guess I'll take it slow and finish my CD - Episode 1 - *PS3 launch here* - Episode Metal - Episode 2 playthrough rather than rush to beat Episode 2 on Steam again in the name of science.

[Milo]

Well, we've already got three episodes (1, Metal, and 2), and I've heard there were supposed to be three episodes total, so...... :V

[JezMM]

Well, we've already got three episodes (1, Metal, and 2), and I've heard there were supposed to be three episodes total, so...... :V

I don't think SEGA officially confirmed any number of episodes. People tended to assume it would be 3 based on the number of zones that'd make. Hell some sources suggested there might be 5.

[Doctor MK]

Well, we've already got three episodes (1, Metal, and 2), and I've heard there were supposed to be three episodes total, so...... :V

If they're counting Episode Metal as a full episode, then god help us all. It's only 4 acts long.

Anyway, assuming Episode 2 is the end of Sonic 4, would this prove SEGA's original claims waaaaay back when Episode 1 was being promoted that Sonic 4 would be the "biggest" classic-style Sonic game once it was complete? We've got 8 zones at 3 acts and a boss apiece, plus one final zone with one act, plus one final zone with two acts... which makes... 35 acts in total? Is that technically the most in any one Sonic game so far?

Regardless, I'm not all that fussed if Sonic 4 ends after Episode 2. Yes, it does feel like it's being cut short and it doesn't quite feel like an epic "saga" that we were promised - heck, it's more "one sub-par rehash and one half-decent improvement", which really doesn't do the name Sonic 4 justice - and it would be nice to have one final episode just to tie up the loose ends of what happens to Little Planet, etc.

But at the same time, with all the controversy surrounding this game, it's kinda nice to think that all the rage might be over. Until the next main Sonic game is announced, anyway

[Blue Blood]

E1 = 17 acts

E2 = 18 acts

EM = 4 acts (let's face it, SEGA will treat it as it's own thing)

S4 = 39 acts

S1 = 19 acts

SCD = 21 acts (or you can do a SEGA and count each Time Zone as it's own act, thus blowing S4 out of the water)

S2 = 25 acts

S3 = 12 acts

SK = 14 acts (Sky Sanctuary has two acts, differing for Sonic and Knuckles)

S3K = 26 acts

KC = 27 acts (Isolated Island as one stage, including final boss)

However, you have to factor in that S3K stages are still larger, there's three characters with differing routes and stories as well as a VS mode. S3K is definitely the bigger game, even if S4 technically has a higher number of stages.

Edited May 15, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Doctor MK]

Ta for the calculations, Blue Blood!

So they could technically stop Sonic 4 now and not be accused of false advertising... but it's true what you say, S3&K feels like a way bigger (and, of course, better) game than this does in its current state despite the number of acts. Wasted potential at its finest.

[JezMM]

Well I personally wouldn't consider the boss acts in Sonic 4 to be seperate acts (in a classic game they'd be at the end of Act 3 and Death Egg Mk.II would have all been one act).

So it'd be like 30 acts really for the whole of Sonic 4.

But on my policy I'd treat every unique Knuckles stage as an act (I know they're part of the same map but Knuckles' Angel Island Act 2 is still fundamentally a different level from Sonic's) so S3&K would still be bigger on act number anyway.

[Scar]

E1 = 17 acts

E2 = 18 acts

EM = 4 acts (let's face it, SEGA will treat it as it's own thing)

S4 = 39 acts

S3 = 12 acts

SK = 14 acts (Sky Sanctuary has two acts, differing for Sonic and Knuckles)

S3K = 26 acts

However, you have to factor in that S3K stages are still larger, there's three characters with differing routes and stories as well as a VS mode. S3K is definitely the bigger game, even if S4 technically has a higher number of stages.

There is also the fact that it is a much better game.

Quality not quantity.

[Blue Blood]

Well I personally wouldn't consider the boss acts in Sonic 4 to be seperate acts (in a classic game they'd be at the end of Act 3 and Death Egg Mk.II would have all been one act).

So it'd be like 30 acts really for the whole of Sonic 4.

But on my policy I'd treat every unique Knuckles stage as an act (I know they're part of the same map but Knuckles' Angel Island Act 2 is still fundamentally a different level from Sonic's) so S3&K would still be bigger on act number anyway.

Nah, I don't think many people would count them as their own acts, but SEGA do when they say E2 has 18 levels. And there was a time when Patrick Riley said E1 had 24 levels, so he was including the Special Stages too.

Also hugely agreed on the business with Knuckles' acts. He's got completely different stages a few times.

[Djawed]

E1 = 17 acts

E2 = 18 acts

EM = 4 acts (let's face it, SEGA will treat it as it's own thing)

S4 = 39 acts

S3 = 12 acts

SK = 14 acts (Sky Sanctuary has two acts, differing for Sonic and Knuckles)

S3K = 26 acts

However, you have to factor in that S3K stages are still larger, there's three characters with differing routes and stories as well as a VS mode. S3K is definitely the bigger game, even if S4 technically has a higher number of stages.

I rather have more zones than more acts tbh. Also there's no doubt about that s3k had a much larger thought process throughout the development of the game. Those number of lvls dont mean jack when every level exists of basic and sometimes brainless level design(see scar's post). Also again, having more acts also means there is less need to work on new assets while s3k had assets even changing between acts within a zone. Add in that every zone has multiple bosses, and s3k would still be the longer game if eps 3 came out. Edited May 15, 2012 by Djawed

[Blue Blood]

Stolen from Ezodagrom at Retro, Ken makes the most bullshitty excuses for S4 only running at 720p. It's like he "definitely" has no idea how these things work.

The original assets are created at 720p. (Which by the way is HD graphics) so it's the highest visual the game will support.

PC versions are not easy, given the amount of different hardware available, an the fast improvments of visual quality. So we do the best we can for "most" users. If you play it at the native resolution - it will look amazing. But if you keep uping the rezo- it will breakdown.

Just like with a DVD, whose max outout is 720x480. Yes your computer can run higher these days, but if you do - the image breaks down.

And yet - that's not the way it works. When you create assets you have to build them at a master resolution. You can render at any resolution, but you have to build a more detailed texture to accompany that, so it looks "good" at that resolution.

If that master assets are built at 720p - thats the best it will ever look.

Just becouse a movie was transfered from DVD to Blu; it dosent automatically become 1080p you expect - you have to do some serious workto up-rez a film, and if the master footage was shot on 8MM, thats the best it will ever look. If it was SHOT in 1080p, the best the film will ever look is at 1080p, even if TV one day become 2160p.

I could go into a long explanation of why it isn't done - but here's the thing - you either are going to accept the fact that there is only so much that can be done within a budget, or you're not. No further explanation is going to change that.

Ep 2 put a time and resources in many area we felt that were important. You cant do it all. Free content, better graphics, 3d world, better physics, Co-Op - all of these thing is where we felt we'd get the best porduct compared to Episode I. Doing 1080p textures assets is expensive for a digital game. People are comparing it to Generation that is a multi-million dollar game. Simply put - thats not the budget im operating with.

The topic where the discussion was taking place

[Your Vest Friend]

Why does the final boss + ending remind me of the ending to Sonic the Fighters, minus the finishing blow clip show?

[Spooky Mulder]

Episode II is actually surprisingly fun. I thought it looked good enough from the trailers/previews, but you really do have to play the game to get a feel for how different it is from E1. Everything just feels so much smoother. The level design could definitely be improved, but I've been enjoying it do much more than any of my playthroughs with E1. To me it feels like the closest thing to the Classics that I've played yet.

So far only the bosses have really bothered me. Egg Serpentleaf was kind of weird, Metal Sonic was an okay boss in White Park, but I really hate the Oil Desert boss. That thing's just a pain in the ass.

Sky Fortress is my favorite zone. Yeah, it's a rehash; but it's the only "rehashed" stage that I like better than the original. SFAct 2 is my favorite zone in the game.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Spooky Mulder

[JezMM]

but I really hate the Oil Desert boss. That thing's just a pain in the ass.

Whoa, slow down there! This is a pretty unique opinion, most people agree that Oil Desert Zone's boss is the best (aside from the Final Boss).

I think the pinch mode attack was utterly pointless and confusing but aside from that it was great and very original.

Also Catherine mang.

[Sega DogTagz]

So far only the bosses have really bothered me. Egg Serpentleaf was kind of weird, Metal Sonic was an okay boss in White Park, but I really hate the Oil Desert boss. That thing's just a pain in the ass.

Weird. I deeply enjoyed the bosses. As a collection, they are some of my favorites of the entire franchise.

I do agree with your main point though. Sonic 4 is just an entertaining little romp. Its not perfect by any stretch of the word, but blasting through the levels keeps you focused in onto that special mix of excitement and engagement. Keeping Tails around keeps the action fresh and the wider moveset makes for some interesting stages. before, where Dimps had to insert a torch or a minecart to get creative, Tails let them expand the repertoire, which is immensely more satisfying.

And then there is the co-op. I have to say, after Colors, I was pretty wary of this mode. But to my surprise (locally) it works great. The recall function is brilliant in keeping players at the same pace, and giving both players contol over calling team actions lets you save your buddies from sticky situations when someone misses a jump. Its not even like sonic 2 or 3 where second player was an afterthought. A memory only to be left off the screen. Now its completely possible to keep both players on screen without stopping every 3 seconds for tails to "spawn in". It just works.

Also I must point out something that happened to me. During a stretch of the Desert stage, I was running along with Tails a few paces ahead. I tucked my Hedgehog into a roll, and after a quick S bend Sonic rocketed into the lead. I honestly had to pause the game and take a moment at that sight. The genesis physics aren't the end all be all to me..... but damn if that wasn't satisfying.

[Spooky Mulder]

Whoa, slow down there! This is a pretty unique opinion, most people agree that Oil Desert Zone's boss is the best (aside from the Final Boss).

I think the pinch mode attack was utterly pointless and confusing but aside from that it was great and very original.

Also Catherine mang.

It's certainly original, but I'm not a fan. The pinch killed me several times, and after playing through the falling boxes portion several times it started to feel like it was just dragging on.

[Kuzu]

Holy Physics, they work. I mean its not perfect, but it works.

Eh played the demo, its not as initially terrible as I thought it was going to be, but I wasn't exactly having the time of my life either I'll probably download the full version when a sale comes.

[Speederino]

Well this snuck up on me. I hadn't really been keeping tabs on Episode 2, mainly because I'm sick and tired of knowing every detail about a Sonic game before it's even released. I just thought to check the game's release date today, and lo and behold, today was the release date. Go figure. Coming from someone who LIKED Episode 1 and thinks the whole physics thing was blown way out of proportion in every conceivable way, I do think Episode 2 is an improvement. The level design is more creative, the homing attack is used as more then just a gimmick, the team mechanic is fresh and excellent. E2 just has more originality than its predecessor.

Yet for some reason, I'm not playing it right now. The last few Sonic games had me glued to the screen for days, but I'm not feeling that kind of pull here. I'm not entirely sure why. It might just be because I wasn't really on board the hype train this time around.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Speederino

[JezMM]

It's certainly original, but I'm not a fan. The pinch killed me several times, and after playing through the falling boxes portion several times it started to feel like it was just dragging on.

Ah okay I hear you. Yeah, it is one of the worst bosses for sheer length if you die at the end, I agree.

[Djawed]

I'm sorry, but I don't see all these changes and improvements to the gameplay people are talking about. Just played the demo, and it feels like the same stiff, clunky, and awkward shit to me...

It's got a little bit of momentum added in the jumps and when running of ledges. And that is... kind of it

While improvements, I agree that it's far from enough. They were really wild about fixing and improving based on feedback. Physics was the main issue so it's kind of... well to me personally it almost feels like a big fuck you.

Edited May 16, 2012 by Djawed

[Blue Blood]

I'm sorry, but I don't see all these changes and improvements to the gameplay people are talking about. Just played the demo, and it feels like the same stiff, clunky, and awkward shit to me...

I have to say the game doesn't feel stiff and clunky any more. Well beyond what the springs, air dash, homing attack and boosters allow for at least. When you're in an area of a level where you can move freely, the control are fine. Everything else sucks tho'

[SuperLink]

Hi remember me.

I'm kind of disappointed and disheartened by the negative reviews Episode II has been getting, especially since by the demo **beta at least it's better than Episode I, which somehow managed to get pretty great reviews.

Still I guess it's good to shove "noT GOOD ENOUGH" down SEGA's throats til they finally get the bloody message. Idk man how can it be so hard to pull off something they did so much better 20 years ago? I'm flabbergasted, even if they don't have the same team members it's hard to make excuses when outdated hardware does your stuff better than you do.

Aanyway more positive note does anyone know how much (if anything) has changed from the ~early beta~? I really enjoyed it from what I played of it. The game's not out in UK yet and I GROW IMPATIENT.

Edited May 16, 2012 by SuperLink

[Komodin]

Well, after playing through the XBLA trial a few times (at forced two-minute intervals, for some unknown reason), I must say, I really do dig this game. Everything just feels much better than Episode 1, especially the controls: Sonic actually plays like how he should be. The music for White Park Act 1 is a bit mediocre, but otherwise, I'm pretty pleased with how this game has turned out.

[Barry the Nomad]

Finally got to play the game! Hooray! I got up at 5:30 to squeeze in 45 minutes before work. Got to play act 1 of Episode Metal and through to the end of White Park.

Really, I'm just going to ignore the negative reviews at this point, and try not to get into debates as to whether the game is good or not, because in the end all that matters is if I like it. And I do like it!

Right off the bat, physics felt much improved. I didn't feel like I was playing Episode 1, I felt more like I was playing Generations 3DS which felt far more like the classics than Ep 1 ever did. While obviously I'd prefer 1:1 Genesis physics and controls, what Episode 2 has feels good.

Graphics are so much better, again I felt like I was playing the 2D sections of Generations HD rather than an extension of Episode 1. I really am loving the skies and I especially loved the randomly floating platforms in the background of Sylvania Castle act 2. Made the moving platforms I was on seem like a part of a larger, inaccessible, cluster of platforms. I know it sounds weird to talk that much about platforms, but it was a cool visual touch.

Music is... better than Ep 1, but of course it's not up to the standard a lot of people want. Personally, I'd LOVE Sonic CD levels of music. What the game has, I like about three quarters of it. The other quarter is more like white noise than offensive.

I really like the combo moves. They feel like an actual evolution of an element from the classics, and it feels like what Heroes wanted to be, but failed at. Homing attack seems less forced, especially with bubbles chains. There are still some do or die chains, but with the removal of uncurling and the copter combo, I find myself doing those moves more often than a homing chain. It's always nice to have a choice.

I also really like the gimmicks, they implement the homing attack pretty well.

So while I've yet to finish the game, thus far it is MUCH better than episode 1 and is FAR from the 5/10's I'm seeing. Honestly, at this point I just have to say fuck the reviews and go with my own opinion. If somebody wants to quote me and try and change my mind with a wall of text, jokes on them.