Sonic the hedgehog 4 - previews, interviews, and impressions topic

[Milo]

I'm interested in how Episode 3's story will play out. Being able to play as Knuckles again can only be a good thing.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Kazaam

[JezMM]

To say Sky Fortress isn't a rehash is simply laughable. It's aesthetically identical to Wing Fortress, uses the same enemies, many of the same gimmicks and even the same story purpose. If you want to say it isn't a rehash, well you've got to to say that none of the E1 stages are rehashes cause it's about as different to the originals as any of them. Games from 1 through to 3K did share tropes, but the also tended to be far more distinct from each other than the similar tropes in S4 (with Oil Desert and White Park being exceptions, and Sylvania Castle being a re-imagined Aquatic Ruin). CD was intentionally supposed to be like S1, while other stages like Emerald Hill and Canrival Night were of the same trope with completely different execution.

Compare the flying fortress stages- Sky Chase/Wing Fortress > Flying Battery > Sky Fortress. One of these stands out quite a lot from the others with different gimmicks, different badniks and wholly unique aesthetics. Can you guess which one?

I don''t get why SF is even so similar to WF. They clearly got the rehash issue with SC, which was unique enough to identify as different to AR. And they even poked fun at it with the boss.

Edited April 28, 2012 by JezMM

[Indigo Rush]

I get so fucking sick of the rehash rehash rehash b'aaaawing with the zones. What kind of wacky over the top genres do you want? I think the fact that we got different aesthetics and a hell of a lot of love put into the envioronments is enough. The classic games were full of "rehashes"! I'll work backwards:

Splash Hill <- Emerald Hill <- Palmtree Panic <- Green Hill

Casino Street <- Carnival Night <- Casino Night

Lost Labyrinth <- Hydrocity <- Tidal Tempest <- Labyrinth

Mad Gear <- Metropolis <- Metallic Madness <- Scrap Brain

Sylvania Castle <- Marble Garden <- Aquatic Ruin

White Park (This is the only one people don't complain about).

Oil Desert (Honestly I'm not going to justify this one either because the only thing it has in common with Oil Ocean is the oil slides on a single act).

Sky Fortress <- Flying Battery <- Wing Fortress (Act 1 was a direct rehash of Sky Chase but they 100% completely built upon it like a sequel should).

Yes, all these stages have many little differences to set them apart from their previous ones but so do the Sonic 4 stages.

Splash Hill has it's swing ropes, pulleys, and the much more elevated high up aesthetic, as well as the sunset.

Casino Street has the cards gimmick and concentrated cannon puzzles.

Lost Labyrinth has the rolling rocks, torch puzzles, minecarts, and water chambers (though I can admit that last one was stupid).

Mad Gear has it's gear gameplay, twisty platforms, and oncoming wall of death segments.

Sylvania Castle has the flippy spring platforms, homing attack floating platforms, water running segments, and the sunrise/moonlit aesthetics.

White Park is again, seldom complained about in terms of freshness.

Oil Desert has it's sinky sand running, rising sand towers, sandstorm winds, slick oil-clad platforms, and the polluted/cleaned up background aesthetics..

Sky Fortress Act 1 has the high speed sections, Metal Sonic survival section and the enforced Tornado-less section.

Sky Fortress Acts 2 and 3 have the wall running sections, emphasised thruster avoiding sections and the lovely sunset aesthetic.

And finally, while I can't defend Episode 1 in this sense, here is all the stuff from the stages Episode 2 is supposedly rehashing that wasn't there.

Aquatic Ruin/Sylvania Castle: Arrow shooting as a frequent "chasing" threat, swinging platforms, falling columns, FUCKING GROUNDERS COMING OUT THE FUCKING WALLS EVERY 5 FUCKING SECONDS.

Oil Ocean/Oil Desert: Those fire-propelled shooty platforms and shooty... shooters, elevators, blowy fans, sinky oil, push springs, sliding back and forth spike thingers.

Wing Fortress/Sky Fortress: Flying out and grabbing off parts of the ship as they tear off, propellor blade hazards, really goddamn confusing navigation which requires you to run through walls, cheap flicky shooty floor things that propell you into god knows where, appearing/disappearing platforms, and vertical "conveyor belts" of platforms to jump up/down.

TL;DR: Sonic 4 Episode 2's amount of rehash is nowhere near the level justified for the amount of panties that have gotten bunched about it.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Indigo Rush

[TheOcelot]

I dunno, aside from simply reposting my list of things that were unique to Sky Fortress or "missing" when directly compared to Wing Fortress, the main difference would be that Wing Fortress was a very "flat" stage. Sky Fortress is a lot more twisting and sprawling. It feels far more like S&K Death Egg Act 1 in style.

As said I don't feel THAT obliged to call Episode 1 100% rehash. I know with Episode 1's levels it was specifically intended to be a rehash, but thanks to the new things I don't think they play like a rehashes, in the same way that say, Classic Green Hill would have been a rehash in a non-celebratory game.

Edited April 28, 2012 by MilesKnightwing

[JezMM]

Ps: I have just played Ep1 all the way through from scratch (I must enjoy being tortured) and I finally achieved the 'Untouchable' PSN trophy achievement. That's the one where you have to complete EGG Station without being hit. My god that achievement drove me mad. Is it feasible that you can destroy the final boss in Ep2 without taking any damage?

Edited April 28, 2012 by JezMM

[Blue Blood]

To those who have played it, what would you rate this game out of 10, and what would you rate E1? I knows there's far better ways of rating a game, but for the sake of simplicity and comparing two similar titles number are the best way to go.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Sami]

Sonic 4: Episode 1 - None/10

Generic Dimps Game With Shitty Physics: Episode 1 - 3/10. It's got awful level design, awful physics, nonexistent story, and it's a barren wasteland when it comes to creativity.

Sonic 4: Episode 2 - 1/10. I like some of the ideas they've got (though some of the execution could stand to be better); like the designs of the enemies and bosses, Sky Fortress' boss from a conceptual standpoint, and some of the level tropes are genuinely neat. Still not what it should be though, nor is it even close.

Generic Dimps Game With Decent Physics: Episode 2 - 5/10. All I'm seeing is mediocrity no matter where I look (though I'll admit the visuals are the single exception). Music, gameplay, story, etc.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Dissident

[Blue Blood]

Sonic 4: Episode 1 - None/10

Generic Dimps Game With Shitty Physics: Episode 1 - 3/10. It's got awful level design, awful physics, nonexistent story, and it's a barren wasteland when it comes to creativity.

Agreed

Sonic 4: Episode 2 - None/10

Generic Dimps Game With Decent Physics: Episode 2 - 5/10. All I'm seeing is mediocrity no matter where I look (though I'll admit the visuals are the single exception). Music, gameplay, story, etc.

Almost agreed. I can't deny that E2 has some creativity more deserving of the title Sonic 4 to be honest, and the visuals while pretty still feel kind of cheap (you'll notice lots of paper looking objects in the backgrounds that aren't anywhere near as bad as Splash Hill).

Otherwise yeah, I'd 5/10 is is right score overall is I try to pretend it's not Sonic 4.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

Episode I - I'd say it's a 6/10. Pretty mediocre, but far from terrible.

Episode II - Definitely at least a 7/10. A solid improvement on many areas, but still not as good as the Classics.

[Sami]

Almost agreed. I can't deny that E2 has some creativity more deserving of the title Sonic 4 to be honest, and the visuals while pretty still feel kind of cheap (you'll notice lots of paper looking objects in the backgrounds that aren't anywhere near as bad as Splash Hill).

[Kuzu]

You mean the role he has in every single game? No, Idon't find that odd at all, especially since he's much more involved this time around.

[Marcello]

Its basically the same gimmick he had in Sonic Advance 3, and when I said "Same Role" I mean in the vein in how he's involved; the whole Tornado bit, how he comes into Episode 2, etc.

Where does Sonic Advance 3 suddenly come in? Weren't we just comparing to the classics?

Either way, again, same role as always, so no, it's perfectly fine.

Its not about its role, its about the fact that its the same exact plotline that Sonic 2-Sonic 3 & Knuckles had despite the fact that this game is supposed to be succeeding those games. Its like making a sequel to a game that uses the exact same plot as its predeccesor.

It's still not an exact recreation, as I said in my last post. It's the same as far as Eggman is using a Death Egg, but other than that it's different.

Sonic 2: Eggman creates a space station called the Death Egg

Sonic 3: Eggman rebuilds the Death Egg and wants to power it with the Master Emerald

Sonic 4: Eggman turns Little Planet into a brand new Death Egg.

If you complain about Sonic 4 being the exact same plot, then you have to say the same for Sonic 3, because they differ the same amount.

Well you sure convinced me.

Good to know.

Did I say it was an exact recreating? Obviously a few details are different; its like saying Casino Street is different from Casino Night because it uses cannons and cards.

You asked in what way it wasn't retreading and I answered.

Edited April 29, 2012 by MarcelloF

[Kuzu]

Where does Sonic Advance 3 suddenly come in? Weren't we just comparing to the classics?

I'm talking about the Co-op gimmick.

Either way, again, same role as always, so no, it's perfectly fine.

Its not perfectly fine if he was supposed to be there from the start and not to hype this up as a retread of Sonic 2.

It's still not an exact recreation, as I said in my last post. It's the same as far as Eggman is using a Death Egg, but other than that it's different.

Sonic 2: Eggman creates a space station called the Death Egg

Sonic 3: Eggman rebuilds the Death Egg and wants to power it with the Master Emerald

Sonic 4: Eggman turns Little Planet into a brand new Death Egg.

If you complain about Sonic 4 being the exact same plot, then you have to say the same for Sonic 3, because they differ the same amount.

Except Sonic 3 takes place directly after Sonic 2, while Sonic 4 is meant to be an entirely different story.

You asked in what way it wasn't retreading and I answered.

That still doesn't change the fact that its still an almost pin point recreation.

[Woun]

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2 – Interview by Iizuka-san and more photos http://sonic-scene.ru/eng/?p=161

[Neon]

Sonic the Hedgehog 4: Episode 2 – Interview by Iizuka-san and more photos http://sonic-scene.ru/eng/?p=161

How many Sonic 4 episodes will we be able to play?

Iizuka: When we planned Ep1, the story will come to end in Ep2, so the story is concluded in this episode. However, I hear that some players want to play “Ep3,” so we will watch how it goes and decide whether we develop “Ep3″ or not.

The ending and assets of Episode 2 seem to go against this.

Edited April 29, 2012 by Neon

[Blue Blood]

The ending and assets of Episode 2 seem to go against this.

The ending doesn't go against anything. The hidden assets could be for anything. I'm hoping they use whatever ideas they've cooked up for Not-Sonic-4.

[Marcello]

I'm talking about the Co-op gimmick.

Its not perfectly fine if he was supposed to be there from the start and not to hype this up as a retread of Sonic 2.

Now you're just changing arguments.

Except Sonic 3 takes place directly after Sonic 2, while Sonic 4 is meant to be an entirely different story.

Except it's obviously not. It's a continuation of the Death Egg saga.

That still doesn't change the fact that its still an almost pin point recreation.

You keep changing your points. I keep pointing out that it's not, so I'm done now.

[Blue Blood]

Sky Fortress 1/Boss in multiplayer. Tails controls the plane, Sonic moves freely. As in he can jump off the Tornado whenever he wants. And if he dies, you both die. It's not fun.

[TheOcelot]

Sky Fortress 1/Boss in multiplayer. Tails controls the plane, Sonic moves freely. As in he can jump off the Tornado whenever he wants. And if he dies, you both die. It's not fun.

Edited May 1, 2012 by MilesKnightwing

[Nintendoga]

Sky Fortress 1/Boss in multiplayer. Tails controls the plane, Sonic moves freely. As in he can jump off the Tornado whenever he wants. And if he dies, you both die. It's not fun.

[OlenJimi]

No way man, Dimps hasn't done anything cool in ages. Sumo Digital should do the spin-offs.

[Blue Blood]

No way man, Dimps hasn't done anything cool in ages. Sumo Digital should do the spin-offs.

We've yet to see how they'd handle anything Sonic outside of a colab' racing title, or if it's even anything they'd be interested in. But there is one thing we can be sure they'd do better than Dimps if ASR is anything to go by- they'd pt a fuckton of effort into it.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Milo]

The ending and assets of Episode 2 seem to go against this.

Hopefully they will be taken out in the final release, I agree with those who say that they would rather see Sonic 4 end here at Episode II. Death Egg mk II can be used for a later modern Sonic game, and it doesn't have to be explained how Metal Sonic and Eggman escaped/got repaired/whatever.

I'd rather Dimps develop their own Sonic games like they did with the Rush/Advance games; instead of continuing this so-called "sequel" to the classic games as well as creating watered-down handheld versions of their superior console counterparts.

Edited May 1, 2012 by Kazaam

[TheOcelot]

I always think of Sonic 4 as a (poor) take on modern Sonic in 2d. Either that or a modern/classic hybrid. It's a weird game. What I want to know is (from those who have played the Beta) what is good about the game? What did you like about it?

[Vec]

And they should end Sonic 4 right here. I'm tired of this arguing bullshit, this mediocre acceptance, and Dimps in general. Just stop here. they really want to listen to the fans? Really want to please them? Okay, Let Sonic Team handle the main Sonic games, and Dimps handle the spin-offs. That would be my insight on the series.

Okay, except...they listen to the majority of the fans, and the majority WANTS the game to continue