Sonic the hedgehog 4 - previews, interviews, and impressions topic

[Kuzu]

Pardon?

[Soniman]

Except thats bullshit, Episode II was nothing and since we are already calling Episode III an rehash just for including the Master Emerald and Angel Island (two common elements in series). Might as well start calling SA1 a rehash.

Edited April 27, 2012 by The Groosenator

[Blue Blood]

This true?

Edited April 27, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Kuzu]

Except thats bullshit, Episode II was nothing.

Edited April 27, 2012 by The Batman

[Neon]

Might as well start calling SA1 a rehash.

Edited April 27, 2012 by Neon

[Komodin]

Wow, I guess the story really instead worth getting excited over then, thaks for raining on that parade guys :v

[Kuzu]

At the very least I want to play as Knuckles again, rehash or not, its been too long. Hopefully he won't be laughably incompetent like he's been for the past 10 years.

[Fuzzy meatloaf]

At the very least I want to play as Knuckles again, rehash or not, its been too long. Hopefully he won't be laughably incompetent like he's been for the past 10 years.

Also want HYPER SONIC back he was freaking amazing in sonic 3K

[Indigo Rush]

Haters gonna hate, I've always believed that this series needed more Death Egg.

[Burnt Ash]

Then again, Knuckles could also end up going the Tails route if he appears in Sonic 4. Or in Episode III all three characters would be playable...the ideal situation.

[Barry the Nomad]

Well, I think the thing is this:

Had Sonic 4 been made after Sonic 3, in the mid-90's, it would surely have new characters and locations. Just as Sonic Adventure introduced Big and E-102 and Chaos and Station Square, etc. However, Sonic 4 was made AFTER a period of sixteen years during which we had LOADS of new characters and locations. I think the intent of Episode 1 was to scale things back and focus only on the characters and locations established in the original Genesis/SEGA CD games.

While I agree with this concept, I think they scaled things back TOO much, to the point where it was very much a collection of rehashed elements which were intended to be homages. Episode 2, however, is much more in line with SEGA's original intent AND is what I wanted from Sonic 4 from the get go. I wanted new stages, but I wanted recognizable elements from the classic era. Splash Hill, while I don't dislike it, is far too much Emerald Hill and Green Hill. Sylvania Castle (acts 2/3) and White Park, however, are what I wanted from a Sonic 4. I can look at them and say that they're original to the game but are not offensively original. If that makes sense.

As for characters, I am VERY happy that badniks are the only new characters. Metal Sonic is "new" in the sense that he's been brought into the numbered series.

I also see Sonic 4 as an extension, not a rehash, of the Death Egg saga. The saga didn't end in Sonic 3, it continued via Eggman's implementation of Little Planet as a power source.

I think that is a very original concept, even if it involves preexisting elements. Sort of like how Sonic Adventure used the Floating Island and a tricked Knuckles again, but in a new way.

[TheOcelot]

The return of content in previous games i.e. Playable Knuckles, the Master Emerald, Little Planet isn't neccesarily a bad thing (although obviously not original). What is important is how the story is told through cutscenes and more importantly the levels themselves. For example the story of S3&K was beautifully told through 14 epic levels. You could literally fill the story being told as you progressed through each level, which ended with an explosive finish.

With Sonic 4 Ep1 it was like 'there was a story?' fucking news to me. It was a miss jointed mess of a game. Ep2 to it's credit looks better. At least the cutscenes seem okay. I still think the episodes are way too short. If (just being hyperthetical) Episode 3 covered the story of S3&K then how could 4 zones (ep3) be a good tribute to a game that had 14 zones?

[Soniman]

So are you going to sit here and tell me that Slyvania Castle wasn't based on Aquatic Ruin at all? Or how about Sky Fortress Acts 2 & 3 to Wing Fortress? Oh, I guess Sky Chase and Sky Fortress Act 1 just look alike by coincidence right?

Umm, when the FUCK did I ever say that? At all!?

Sonic 4 episode II: Sonic teams up with Tails to take down Eggman's Death Egg MK II!!!!!(For emphasis), with CD's story thrown in without Amy.

Horseshit, Sonic teaming up with Tails is a weak ass reason to play the rehash card, and re-using the Death Egg for the first time in goddamn years is also a not fair reason. And Little Planet's significance is barely a factory in Episode II so no, it's barely like CD, only re-using some themes.

So, got any excuses or are these just "coincidences"

I guess I won't waste my time since you're just going to dismiss everything I say like that then.

EDIT: Oh, and to note: I have no problems with these things by themselves because they would serve as a pretty awesome throwback to Sonic 2, but in a game that's meant to be improving on what Sonic 2 did, it just comes off as lazy.

The crux of your argument is that the Classics are better than Sonic 4 then? Because it hasn't been said dozens of time before I guess?

Edited April 27, 2012 by The Groosenator

[Fuzzy meatloaf]

If episode III follows the same pattern (4 zone + 1 final) then there would have to be an episode IV because ken did say that sonic 4 is a massive saga.

[Burnt Ash]

Wait, now that I think of it, isn't this the third Death Egg? The first one would be from Sonic 2/3, and the second would be from Battle, and the third would be in Sonic 4....

[Barry the Nomad]

Battle takes place after 4, so the Death Egg in Battle is the third one.

Did I blow your mind?

[SenEDDtor Missile]

Wait, now that I think of it, isn't this the third Death Egg? The first one would be from Sonic 2/3, and the second would be from Battle, and the third would be in Sonic 4....

By that logic, it would be the 2nd Death Egg in continuity terms, since Battle occurs after SA2.

[Burnt Ash]

Oh yeah, my bad. I was thinking in terms of the release date rather than the games' timeline.

[Kuzu]

Umm, when the FUCK did I ever say that? At all!?

When you were claiming Episode II wasn't a rehash.

Horseshit, Sonic teaming up with Tails is a weak ass reason to play the rehash card

So the fact that he's hyped up as a "return" and the fact that he plays the exact same role he did in Sonic 2, doesn't scream odd to you?

,

and re-using the Death Egg for the first time in goddamn years is also a not fair reason.

When it plays the exact same role it did in Sonic 2, yes it is. If this was another game, then I wouldn't be calling foul, but its being used as the exact same plot device in a game that's supposed to be succeeding Sonic 2, and you don't find a problem with this? Its supposed to be a new saga yet its awfully similar to the saga before it. But its not a rehash right?

And Little Planet's significance is barely a factory in Episode II so no, it's barely like CD, only re-using some themes.

No, but Metal Sonic's role in it is enough of a parallel.

I guess I won't waste my time since you're just going to dismiss everything I say like that then.

Or maybe your argument is weak because it sounds like you're in denial, all you've done is just tell me I'm wrong, but not without any real reasoning. Tell me, in what way is Sonic 4 not a retreading of the Death Egg Saga despite supposedly being another story arc entirely, give an adequate reason and I might reconsider.

The crux of your argument is that the Classics are better than Sonic 4 then?

No, its that this "sequel" isn't really a sequel and more of Dimps' version of the Classic games, and if it is a sequel its a poorly designed one.

[Marcello]

So the fact that he's hyped up as a "return" and the fact that he plays the exact same role he did in Sonic 2, doesn't scream odd to you?

Edited April 28, 2012 by MarcelloF

[Big Boss (legendsneverdie)]

I'm interested in how Episode 3's story will play out. Being able to play as Knuckles again can only be a good thing.

[JezMM]

I get so fucking sick of the rehash rehash rehash b'aaaawing with the zones. What kind of wacky over the top genres do you want? I think the fact that we got different aesthetics and a hell of a lot of love put into the envioronments is enough. The classic games were full of "rehashes"! I'll work backwards:

Splash Hill <- Emerald Hill <- Palmtree Panic <- Green Hill

Casino Street <- Carnival Night <- Casino Night

Lost Labyrinth <- Hydrocity <- Tidal Tempest <- Labyrinth

Mad Gear <- Metropolis <- Metallic Madness <- Scrap Brain

Sylvania Castle <- Marble Garden <- Aquatic Ruin

White Park (This is the only one people don't complain about).

Oil Desert (Honestly I'm not going to justify this one either because the only thing it has in common with Oil Ocean is the oil slides on a single act).

Sky Fortress <- Flying Battery <- Wing Fortress (Act 1 was a direct rehash of Sky Chase but they 100% completely built upon it like a sequel should).

Yes, all these stages have many little differences to set them apart from their previous ones but so do the Sonic 4 stages.

Splash Hill has it's swing ropes, pulleys, and the much more elevated high up aesthetic, as well as the sunset.

Casino Street has the cards gimmick and concentrated cannon puzzles.

Lost Labyrinth has the rolling rocks, torch puzzles, minecarts, and water chambers (though I can admit that last one was stupid).

Mad Gear has it's gear gameplay, twisty platforms, and oncoming wall of death segments.

Sylvania Castle has the flippy spring platforms, homing attack floating platforms, water running segments, and the sunrise/moonlit aesthetics.

White Park is again, seldom complained about in terms of freshness.

Oil Desert has it's sinky sand running, rising sand towers, sandstorm winds, slick oil-clad platforms, and the polluted/cleaned up background aesthetics..

Sky Fortress Act 1 has the high speed sections, Metal Sonic survival section and the enforced Tornado-less section.

Sky Fortress Acts 2 and 3 have the wall running sections, emphasised thruster avoiding sections and the lovely sunset aesthetic.

And finally, while I can't defend Episode 1 in this sense, here is all the stuff from the stages Episode 2 is supposedly rehashing that wasn't there.

Aquatic Ruin/Sylvania Castle: Arrow shooting as a frequent "chasing" threat, swinging platforms, falling columns, FUCKING GROUNDERS COMING OUT THE FUCKING WALLS EVERY 5 FUCKING SECONDS.

Oil Ocean/Oil Desert: Those fire-propelled shooty platforms and shooty... shooters, elevators, blowy fans, sinky oil, push springs, sliding back and forth spike thingers.

Wing Fortress/Sky Fortress: Flying out and grabbing off parts of the ship as they tear off, propellor blade hazards, really goddamn confusing navigation which requires you to run through walls, cheap flicky shooty floor things that propell you into god knows where, appearing/disappearing platforms, and vertical "conveyor belts" of platforms to jump up/down.

TL;DR: Sonic 4 Episode 2's amount of rehash is nowhere near the level justified for the amount of panties that have gotten bunched about it.

Edited April 28, 2012 by JezMM

[Marcello]

I still don't see how Oil Desert is considered an Oil Ocean rehash, to be honest. Looks completely different to me.

And the one video I watched of part of Sky Fortress, it looked more like a space ship than Wing Fortress. Looked like a mix out of Wing Fortress and EGG Rocket. Though, I should see the whole thing before really judging it.

[Blue Blood]

To say Sky Fortress isn't a rehash is simply laughable. It's aesthetically identical to Wing Fortress, uses the same enemies, many of the same gimmicks and even the same story purpose. If you want to say it isn't a rehash, well you've got to to say that none of the E1 stages are rehashes cause it's about as different to the originals as any of them. Games from 1 through to 3K did share tropes, but the also tended to be far more distinct from each other than the similar tropes in S4 (with Oil Desert and White Park being exceptions, and Sylvania Castle being a re-imagined Aquatic Ruin). CD was intentionally supposed to be like S1, while other stages like Emerald Hill and Canrival Night were of the same trope with completely different execution.

Compare the flying fortress stages- Sky Chase/Wing Fortress > Flying Battery > Sky Fortress. One of these stands out quite a lot from the others with different gimmicks, different badniks and wholly unique aesthetics. Can you guess which one?

I don''t get why SF is even so similar to WF. They clearly got the rehash issue with SC, which was unique enough to identify as different to AR. And they even poked fun at it with the boss.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Scar]

To say Sky Fortress isn't a rehash is simply laughable. It's aesthetically identical to Wing Fortress, uses the same enemies, many of the same gimmicks and even the same story purpose. If you want to say it isn't a rehash, well you've got to to say that none of the E1 stages are rehashes cause it's about as different to the originals as any of them. Games from 1 through to 3K did share tropes, but the also tended to be far more distinct from each other than the similar tropes in S4 (with Oil Desert and White Park being exceptions, and Sylvania Castle being a re-imagined Aquatic Ruin). CD was intentionally supposed to be like S1, while other stages like Emerald Hill and Canrival Night were of the same trope with completely different execution.

Compare the flying fortress stages- Sky Chase/Wing Fortress > Flying Battery > Sky Fortress. One of these stands out quite a lot from the others with different gimmicks, different badniks and wholly unique aesthetics. Can you guess which one?

I don''t get why SF is even so similar to WF. They clearly got the rehash issue with SC, which was unique enough to identify as different to AR. And they even poked fun at it with the boss.

Edited April 28, 2012 by Scar