Sonic the hedgehog 4 - previews, interviews, and impressions topic

[Voyant]

Replaying the game...I have to say that Episodes 2 shining moments are indeed Boss fights. I will even dare to say that all some are BETTER than bosses in the Classic games and Unleashed an up wise in terms of modern games, it even beats them out too in certain areas.

They are enjoyable, flashy, and cinematic...its been a long time since I felt so tensed up (in a good way) in a Boss fight like in Oil Ocean...that shit was scary almost...some of the best bosses in the franchise

Episode 2 in its own right a pretty good game, but alas like every game when been getting its simply B-/B/B+ worthy...

I just waiting for that fucking awesome Sonic game that everyone wants...yet SEA is too scared to go the extra mile...its annoying.

Also Sonic and Tails Co-op (played local with a friend) is pretty ace...so I guess that surpassed the Classics as well.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[Sami]

Can Dimps just do bosses from now on or something? I can't speak for how much fun Episode II's actually are, but they at least look fairly creative, and if there's one thing this series' bosses need desperately right now it's variety. They've done good work with bosses before, too: Rush's were mostly boring and the Advance games' were hit or miss, admittedly, but Rush Adventure had quite possibly the best bosses in the series.

Eh. This game's bosses kind of negate that, to be honest. SC's boss was exceedingly easy (and as a result, dull), WP's boss is horribly designed (going from being piss easy to downright cheap in about two seconds), OD's is easily the best in the game, SF's is fucking awful, and the final boss is actually pretty good.

The only boss that really holds a candle to Generations' bosses though is the Oil Desert boss. The Metal Sonic fight was a lot more fun in Generations, the first boss of Generations is a lot more creative and fun than Sylvania Castle's, and Generations' real final boss (because let's be honest, the Super Sonic fights are way to segregated to really be considered the final test of your skill), the Egg Dragoon, is also much more fun than the final boss of Episode 2.

Regardless of whether or not people are getting sick of hearing this statement, I think it bears constant repitition: Dimps needs to be let go.

Everything Dimps can do, the current Sonic Team can do better; and it's going to take a lot of change to make my stance change on that.

[SilentDoom]

SC's boss wouldn't be so braindead easy if it wasn't for the fact that you could use the team flight thing. If they disabled that during the boss, it would've been better.

[Voyant]

words

While I agree about Dimps being let go. I'll have to disagree with you on the Metal Sonic Boss fight. The only example you gave that I actually agree with was Egg Dragon...and lets be honest here...he isn't the final boss.

I'm give credit where its due...Dimps does far better bosses that Sonic Teamhas even some Classic Boss fights ...I loooove Generation.. pretty much high on my list, but that doesn't mean that a game being a tad worse than it can't shine in areas where Generations didn't uphold too. Also Episode 2 as a good silent Atmosphere to it like the Classics...so that is something that can be arguably better as well.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[Solid SOAP]

Why is this being compared to Generations? It's a low budget, $15 game released for downloadable services only, Generations is a full-priced and lengthed game with production values to match.

I know they're both Sonic games, but that's like comparing NSMBDS with Super Mario Galaxy, you just can't do that.

[Shade Vortex]

So I've played Beta 8 and I have to say that White Park Act 2 is the shittiest designed stage in the whole game, while Oil Desert Zone Act 2 is the shittiest composed song.

Other than those two awful things this game is rather hit or miss, though to be fair, it's more consistently good than bad, and is an improvement over E1 in pretty much every regard. It's still not as good as I would have liked it to be; and that's REGARDLESS of its status as a sequel or as Sonic 4. Generally, as a game, as a platformer, as a downloadable title for 15 dollars, there's much better bang for your buck.

If you wish to read a more thorough hands-on preview by me, my tumblr blog (link in my signature) is the place to go.

[Sean]

Why is this being compared to Generations? It's a low budget, $15 game released for downloadable services only, Generations is a full-priced and lengthed game with production values to match.

Sonic 4 and classic Sonic's levels in Generations set out to do the same thing (but obviously with very different results), so it's inevitable that they'd be compared. Budget shouldn't be a factor in proper level design.

[JezMM]

SC's boss wouldn't be so braindead easy if it wasn't for the fact that you could use the team flight thing. If they disabled that during the boss, it would've been better.

The point is to drill in that you need to use the flight sometimes. I actually died on this boss on my first play, since I ran down my rings a bit from silly mistakes before realising Eggman wasn't gonna come down into my reach again. Even once you realise to fly, it's still a skill in itself to get down the "jumping out of Tails' hands" thing correct every time, especially during the pinch attack where Eggman moves around quite a lot.

[Solid SOAP]

Sonic 4 and classic Sonic's levels in Generations set out to do the same thing (but obviously with very different results), so it's inevitable that they'd be compared. Budget shouldn't be a factor in proper level design.

That makes sense.

How's the 'combo-roll' in this? Videos made it seem WAY overpowered and basically broken, but I haven't heard any complaints about it in the beta. What's the general consensus on it around here?

[Shade Vortex]

How's the 'combo-roll' in this? Videos made it seem WAY overpowered and basically broken, but I haven't heard any complaints about it in the beta. What's the general consensus on it around here?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Shade Vortex

[Sami]

The only example you gave that I actually agree with was Egg Dragon...and lets be honest here...he isn't the final boss.

Almost much every 3D Sonic game has been following the same pattern: You get a final boss that tests all of the skills you learned in-game to finish off the main story, and then a Super Sonic boss that controls completely differently and is nothing more than a glorified mini-game with gameplay completely different from the main game. Adventure, Adventure 2, Heroes, Shadow, 06, Unleashed, and Generations all did this, and it's for that reason that I'd consider the Egg Viper to be the real final boss of Adventure, the Egg Wyvern to be the real final boss of 06, the Egg Dragoon to be the real final boss of Unleashed (with the pre-Super Sonic part of the Dark Gaia fight serving to test your skills as Sonic), and so on.

It's for that reason why I'd consider the Egg Dragoon to be the real final boss of Generations. The Time Eater is completely different from everything else in the game.

I'm give credit where its due...Dimps does far better bosses that Sonic Teamhas even some Classic Boss fights ...I loooove Generation.. pretty much high on my list, but that doesn't mean that a game being a tad worse than it can't shine in areas where Generations didn't uphold too.

I'm also giving credit where it's due; Sonic Team deserves credit for being better than Dumps in every way possible.

Also Episode 2 as a good silent Atmosphere to it like the Classics...so that is something that can be arguably better as well.

Story's still a huge step down from S3&K though, so I wouldn't really count that for much since it's yet another aspect that makes Sonic 4 inferior to the game it's supposed to be succeeding.

[Voyant]

I'm also giving credit where it's due; Sonic Team deserves credit for being better than Dumps in every way possible.

Sonic Team does do much better than DIMPS in everywhere possible....just not Bosses. Egg Dragoon is probably one of the best Bosses Sonic Team has made, but Dimps is way more consistent. I will defend Sonic Team through thick and thin at times...but one of their major weak areas have always been boss battles. Dimps has had its boss flops here and there, but they are way more consistent in Bosses. Time Eater in both versions of Generations is a great example.

Story's still a huge step down from S3&K though, so I wouldn't really count that for much since it's yet another aspect that makes Sonic 4 inferior to the game it's supposed to be succeeding.

To be honest both games have little paper thin stories that were told through gameplay. I think Episode 2 succeeds just as well as Sonic 3&K in that regard...it not like there so much to really FLESH out from both story lines. Regardless point stands...I felt a lot more immersed in Episode 2 than i ever was in Generations.

Generations to me is just an arcadey celebration Sonic game. I went in with that mentality and just largely focused on gameplay personally.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[Blue Blood]

So, Sky Fortress is just a Dimped Sky Chase/Wing Fortress. I don't get why we E2 has such a blatant rehash, especially after Sylvania Castle plays like an answer to all the rehash complaints from E1. White Park and Oil Desert are very unique too, so why Sky Fortress?

Edited April 25, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Soniman]

Sonic 4 is weaker in the story department to S3&K most likely because it's not finished yet.

[Voyant]

So, Sky Fortress is just a Dimped Sky Chase/Wing Fortress. I don't get why we E2 has such a blatant rehash, especially after Sylvania Castle plays like an answer to all the rehash complaints from E1. White Park and Oil Desert are very unique too, so why Sky Fortress?

Sonic 2 is my favorite Sonic game to this date...although....The Dimped up Sky Fortress was way more enjoyable than the originally one. It may have been "Dimped", but it was probably one of the best Dimped levels they have ever done.

Sky Fortress shines yo.

If the rest of the game had that much love in it I would have enjoyed the game a lot better than me just saying...its "alright."

Sonic 4 is weaker in the story department to S3&K most likely because it's not finished yet.

True...no qualms here.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[SilentDoom]

So, Sky Fortress is just a Dimped Sky Chase/Wing Fortress. I don't get why we E2 has such a blatant rehash, especially after Sylvania Castle plays like an answer to all the rehash complaints from E1. White Park and Oil Desert are very unique too, so why Sky Fortress?

Indeed, even the badniks are all the same. That said though, they look awesome in HD. I loved Turtloid and Clucker.

[Sami]

Sonic Team does do much better than DIMPS in everywhere possible....just not Bosses. Egg Dragoon is probably one of the best Bosses Sonic Team has made, but Dimps is way more consistent. I will defend Sonic Team through thick and thin at times...but one of their major weak areas have always been boss battles. Dimps has had its boss flops here and there, but they are way more consistent in Bosses. Time Eater in both versions of Generations is a great example.

Dimps > Sonic Team?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y6ucz1IytlM

*Laughs* No.

To be honest both games have little paper thin stories that were told through gameplay. I think Episode 2 succeeds just as well as Sonic 3&K in that regard...it not like there so much to really FLESH out from both story lines. Regardless point stands...I felt a lot more immersed in Episode 2 than i ever was in Generations.

Generations to me is just an arcadey celebration Sonic game. I went in with that mentality and just largely focused on gameplay personally.

Then we'll agree to disagree. The only emotion I ever really felt playing Episode 2 was boredom; so I can't say it really immersed me at all.

[Indigo Rush]

Sonic 4: EII has about as paper thin a story as Sonic 3 or Sonic & Knuckles. That is, most of the details are in the manuals, and the cutscenes tell just as much.

In-game, Sonic & Knuckles' big claim to fame is the betrayal of Knuckles segment and the whole Floating Island story. Sonic 4 is showing the return and overclocking of Metal Sonic and the re-building of the Death Egg around Little Planet from Sonic CD.

There's just as much story going on in Sonic 4 as there is in Sonic 3 & Knuckles.

[Voyant]

Dimps > Sonic Team on bosses?

*laughs* No

Decent bosses in Generations don't make up for a history of mediocre and I apologize if I can look past flashy graphics in order to properly dissect a boss battle...it IS the DS compared to a 360 title. :/

Edited April 25, 2012 by Double

[Blue Blood]

Sonic 4 is weaker in the story department to S3&K most likely because it's not finished yet.

I'm trying to be dead fair with the story argument here and have kept all the stories summarised as much as possible.

E1 Story: Sonic and Eggman. The end. (Unless you visit the website, which says very little more)

EM Story: Metal Sonic is brought back to life in Mad Gear, and gets a powerup in Lost Labyrinth.

E2 Story: Little Planet is back, Metal fights Sonic once more (though the hows and whys of this aren't important) and Eggman takes over Little Planet in a way with no relation to Little Planet's story from CD. Tails exists again. There's a bit of story going on with Sonic and Tails destroying the oil rigs Eggman set up in the desert too. You don't see it happen though.

S3K Story: Sonic and Tails collected all the Emeralds and escape the Death Egg. Eggman and the Death Egg crashed on Angel Island, making it fall into the ocean. He then fooled Knuckles into helping him. Knuckles meets Sonic, steals the Emeralds and then keeps getting in his way. Sonic and Tails get the Emeralds back as the travel the island. Eggman unsuccessfully relaunches the Death Egg. Sonic and Tails get warped to Hidden Palace where they restore the new Super and Master Emeralds. Sonic and Knuckles fight, and then Knuckles realises Eggman's the bad guy when he steals the ME from him to power the Death Egg. Knuckles helps Sonic and Tails get to newly launched Death Egg and save the day before leaving Angel Island. After all of that, a stray Egg Robo attacks Knuckles and he must stop him. Egg Robo has the ME (um, how/when exactly?) and is keeping it in Sky Sanctuary. Metal Sonic (whatever you want to call him, I don't really care) then destroys Egg Robo and uses the ME to super charge himself. Knuckles wins in the end and saves the day. Also, the stages in S3K tell a story with their transitional cutscenes, subtly changed backgrounds (no Death Egg in Knuckles' Launch Base) and lack of water both in the layouts and in the backgrounds of Knuckles story.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Sami]

I don't really see why you put the "fix" there, considering my choice in videos clearly demonstrates that I know we're talking about bosses.

Decent bosses in Generations don't make up for a history of mediocre

Well considering the team is radically different from how it was just five years ago, and that the only two games this current Sonic Team has developed were Unleashed and Generations, I'm not seeing where this "history of mediocre" is coming from. The bosses in Unleashed, albeit being somewhat repetitive, were absolutely revolutionary for the series and served as a really great start for Sonic Team. Generations gave us unique and fun takes on Death Egg Robo, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Perfect Chaos, Silver, and Egg Dragoon.

Dumps? Shitty bosses in Rush, KALORS, and JENURASHUNS. Apparently Rush Adventure had some really cool ones, but I'm going off of someone else's word for that and don't feel like playing that game again (couldn't stand beating it the first time, and I really don't care enough about bashing Sonic 4 to go suffer through another one of Dumps' failures).

and I apologize if I can look past flashy graphics in order to properly dissect a boss battle...it IS the DS compared to a 360 title. :/

Cute.

[Lady Soniko]

how is Sky Fortress a Rehash of Wing Fortress zone? i distinctly remember platforming over collapsing turret platforms, avoiding giant rotor blades and launchers that shot you forward

i do NOT remember machines that shoot you through rings, jumping over and avoiding exhaust flames, oh and epic music

Wing Fortress was a piece of shit, a clusterfuck with no real direction to the goal except eventually getting there through frustrating platforming and lolbottomless pits, the music was annoying and the stage was horrible, the boss battle was cheap too.

SKY Fortress has great music, much more enjoyable platforming and level design, no falling platforms, no stupidly placed enemies, good level gimmicks and it was fast paced and FUN, the only thing i see about the "baaawww rehash" argument is the very start of act 1 and 2, where you see the flame exhausts from the bottom of the fortress and the similar names.

even act one was fun to play, actually being able to use Tail's plane was good.

i also don't remember Metal Sonic trolling you in the background of Wing Fortress

if anything, the entire thing was a nod to Sonic Adventure and the Egg Carrier chase.

Edited April 25, 2012 by Peacock

[Blue Blood]

how is Sky Fortress a Rehash of Wing Fortress zone? i distinctly remember platforming over collapsing turret platforms, avoiding giant rotor blades and launchers that shot you forward

i do NOT remember machines that shoot you through rings, jumping over and avoiding exhaust flames, oh and epic music

Wing Fortress was a piece of shit, a clusterfuck with no real direction to the goal except eventually getting there through frustrating platforming and lolbottomless pits, the music was annoying and the stage was horrible, the boss battle was cheap too.

SKY Fortress has great music, much more enjoyable platforming and level design, no falling platforms, no stupidly placed enemies, good level gimmicks and it was fast paced and FUN, the only thing i see about the "baaawww rehash" argument is the very start of act 1 and 2, where you see the flame exhausts from the bottom of the fortress.

even act one was fun to play, actually being able to use Tail's plane was good.

i also don't remember Metal Sonic trolling you in the background of Wing Fortress

if anything, the entire thing was a nod to Sonic Adventure and the Egg Carrier chase.

It's no less a rehash that Casino Street, even though though the original didn't have cannons. Or Splash Hill which had vines and pulleys where Green Hill had none. Not to mention Sky Fortress looks exactly like a 3D Wing Fortress, uses all the same badniks, and gimmicks. Just finish it off with lots of speed boosters and Dimps' your uncle!

Edited April 26, 2012 by Blue Blood

[Kuzu]

So has this topic boiled down to "lol Dimps suck, Sonic Team are bettur"?

[Voyant]

I don't really see why you put the "fix" there, considering my choice in videos clearly demonstrates that I know we're talking about bosses.

Well considering the team is radically different from how it was just five years ago, and that the only two games this current Sonic Team has developed were Unleashed and Generations, I'm not seeing where this "history of mediocre" is coming from. The bosses in Unleashed, albeit being somewhat repetitive, were absolutely revolutionary for the series and served as a really great start for Sonic Team. Generations gave us unique and fun takes on Death Egg Robo, Metal Sonic, Shadow, Perfect Chaos, Silver, and Egg Dragoon.

Dumps? Shitty bosses in Rush, KALORS, and JENURASHUNS. Apparently Rush Adventure had some really cool ones, but I'm going off of someone else's word for that and don't feel like playing that game again (couldn't stand beating it the first time, and I really don't care enough about bashing Sonic 4 to go suffer through another one of Dumps' failures).

Weird cause I'm stuck in a strange grey area here...cause I agree with you in certain aspects. as an Unleashed (Day Time Only) lover, I totally fell in love with their Boss fights and have fun doing them every time. I quite like Egg Beetle and its "Clone" fight in Mazuri as examples never gets boring.

Colors Bosses were atrocious though....both in design and execution...only good one was the Final. Dimps boss designed completely destroys colors Bosses.

Generations?

Death Egg Robo

4 hits.

Metal Sonic

Barely a threat in anyway shape or form absolutely no tension. Its fun to play sure...but it makes Metal look like a Pussy.

Shadow

I like this boss for the sae that you can just blast off and run around, but the way you take him out is rather weak and unimaginative. Great set up though.

Perfect Chaos

Thumbs Up.

Silver

Two Thumbs Up

Egg Dragoon

All my fingers.

TIME EATER

The fuck happened?

****

Also they didn't just make Rush bosses. Some of their Sonic Advance 1/2/3 bosses fights surpass the Classics in a lot of aspects.

I can't believe I'm actually defending Dimps...my brain hurts

Cute.

Well since you want to go there, I'll see you back in a year with the inevitable "I changed my mind again."

Edited April 26, 2012 by Double