PlayStation 4 Discussion

[SuperLink]

I doubt it's redundant; I think Sony are well-aware that it's a huge nega. I'm pretty sure that even if it's not right away, they'll find a way to let users re-download their PS3 games for free or something, hopefully without extra purchase.

 

Unrelated but, what's SSMB's general consensus on the graphics? Did they blow you away? Were you impressed or not?

 

I don't know much about technical things, but I can't say anything really wowed me unlike with previous gens. It's really good, for certain, but it didn't seem too far ahead of the kinds of things games are already doing. To me, anyway.

[Carbo]

Unrelated but, what's SSMB's general consensus on the graphics? Did they blow you away? Were you impressed or not?

The only thing which looked impressive was the Killzone 4 demo which is in turn being compensated for looking to play like absolute shit. It's great if you're into typical set pieces but that's all those next-gen graphics is going to bring, and while the Square's (rehashed) tech demo and Capcom's looked nice I'll believe those when I see them in game play. Most other games outside of the first parties were clearly multiplatforms, most notably Watch Dogs which is even coming on PS3 and Wii U.

I feel rather vindicated. It's honestly not that interesting so far, even with those good numbers.

[Stacy]

I doubt it's redundant; I think Sony are well-aware that it's a huge nega. I'm pretty sure that even if it's not right away, they'll find a way to let users re-download their PS3 games for free or something, hopefully without extra purchase.

 

I seriously doubt this. It doesn't matter if you have loads of physical games your still screwed.

 

Why can't I pay for it to upgraded to be Backwards Compatible?

 

To me this like buying a Porsche with no cup holders and a stereo.

 

"I really like Killzone 4. I fancy playing KillZone 3 2 and 1. Shit! I can't my PS3 is in the loft and I have no room to set up".

 

"Finally got all the main Resident Evil Games. I now have to rebuy them *Cries*".

 

Edited February 21, 2013 by BW199148

[Carbo]

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-02-21-sony-sounds-uncertain-about-european-ps4-launch-timing

Sony sounds uncertain about European PS4 launch timing

"People in Europe always complain that they're last even when sometimes some things are exclusive to European consumers," Sony Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida told me earlier tonight following the PlayStation 4 reveal in New York.

[...]

"It's too early to say," he said, leaping onto the one option I shouldn't have given him. (Did I mention the 25 hours I've been awake at this point?)

"For one thing the system has to be complete and we have to understand the manufacturing pace of it. Then we have to kind of look at the demand predictions and we have to decide whether we can go global or like [the rumour]. So it takes more time for us to know that."

Big surprise, we're getting shafted again.

[SuperLink]

Was a bit hopeful after GAME put the pre-orders up, but I'm absolutely not surprised.

[Mollfie]

I seriously doubt this. It doesn't matter if you have loads of physical games your still screwed.

 

Why can't I pay for it to upgraded to be Backwards Compatible?

 

To me this like buying a Porsche with no cup holders and a stereo.

 

"I really like Killzone 4. I fancy playing KillZone 3 2 and 1. Shit! I can't my PS3 is in the loft and I have no room to set up".

 

"Finally got all the main Resident Evil Games. I now have to rebuy them *Cries*".

 

They'll probably re-release older games eventually, like how you can now have the Mass Effect trilogy on PS3. I dunno BW, it seems like you're just being a bit silly really. Sony don't really care, and why should they? You can still play PS3 games by either keeping your old console, re-buying them digitally (as many of us have done with older games) or Sony may have some sort of offer to soften the blow. I don't imagine they'll just let you download games for free, but maybe free or at a discount if you have a PSN+ account or similar as an enticement.

 

What's the cut off point here? Should they also let you play your PS2 games? Consoles age, companies make new consoles and you cannot expect them to include backwards compatibility all the time. I've already outlined why companies often don't include backwards compatibility, it's just not sensible. The DS Lite and beyond doesn't play Gameboy games. The 360 doesn't allow you to play all XBOX games. The PS3 doesn't let you play PS2 games unless you still have an old 60gb in the UK (or 20/60/80gb in US I think?). They have been phasing it out for a while now.

 

It's annoying but technology moves forwards. We've been spoilt by games now being on discs, we assume therefore that because they all essentially play the same way that it's easy to ensure backwards compatibility. But it doesn't really work that way.

 

 

Was a bit hopeful after GAME put the pre-orders up, but I'm absolutely not surprised.

I think it's partly to register interest too? £20 to pre-order though is pretty good, I thought it would be more. Edited February 21, 2013 by Mollfie

[JezMM]

To me this like buying a Porsche with no cup holders and a stereo.

 

Surely expecting backwards compatibility from a new console is more like buying a Porsche FOR the cupholders and stereo, to replace the ones in your house.

[Scar]

They can probably emulate the PS1. PS2 and 3 will use their streaming shizwaz, unless they allow for the option of purchasing a Cell+EE-in-a-box peripheral to let you play PS2 and PS3 games directly.

 

As for the massive amount of very fast RAM? Well the "press power to sleep, then press it again to resume immediately" willr require a lot of RAM as will all the extra stuff (streaming, party chat wasn't on PS3 because of RAM limitations, etc.)

[SuperLink]

Definitely to register interest, but I just thought that GAME would set "TBA" as the release-date until they were sure of what it was.

 

Also, I'm 99% certain it'll continue with the same PSN system, so yeah I assume PS1 and PS2 games you have downloaded will be downloadable again, as well as PS3 games you got digitally already.

[Stacy]

Surely expecting backwards compatibility from a new console is more like buying a Porsche FOR the cupholders and stereo, to replace the ones in your house.

 

So I am only one would like the option to have a radio in my car and a holder for my cup. Ever heard of convince and practicality or do like everything to complicated and contrived as possible?

 

How I am being silly? If I had my own place and I could afford to this would be less of a issue depending on size of where I am living.

 

I have medium size bedroom I am amazed I can fit everything in as I can.

 

I had to have a extra middle leg put it stop from it bending because of the weight. 

 

Want to see my desk?

 

[JezMM]

Unfortunately your desk isn't Sony's problem.  You can't fit a PS2 on there either but you managed to get by didn't you?  They can't put extra technology into stuff just because some people might have inefficiently spaced desk setups.

 

You could stand your 360 up if you were desperate.

Edited February 21, 2013 by JezMM

[NiGHTS]

 

Something something diminishing returns something short leap from PS3 something lol

 

Naughty Dog @ E3 pls pls pls

 

 

You know.. most of the conference I saw was mostly CGI renders... I remember when the PS3 first came out, and it showed pretty much the same graphics as im seeing now. Then I see Watch Dog... where it comes close to the Wii U version. Mostly, this "next gen" will be mostly how fast the system is, and how much things can run at the same time, instead of the graphical leap. Its all about multitasking these days, and social networking.

[Candescence]

Dead Master, on 22 Feb 2013 - 00:35, said:

You know.. most of the conference I saw was mostly CGI renders... I remember when the PS3 first came out, and it showed pretty much the same graphics as im seeing now. Then I see Watch Dog... where it comes close to the Wii U version. Mostly, this "next gen" will be mostly how fast the system is, and how much things can run at the same time, instead of the graphical leap. Its all about multitasking these days, and social networking.

Yeah, those screenshots scream "bullshots" to me. They look too much like pre-rendered CGI. Edited February 21, 2013 by Masaru Daimon

[Alluusio]

It doesn't look like something I need to get immediately. I'm not ready to pay high prices for hardware that will probably not even be fully utilized for some time: Having all that RAM doesn't seem particularly useful right now unless the UI uses a good chunk of it, but it'll definitely come in handy later so I'll just wait for that to happen before I buy it. By that time the price will probably have dropped and the Wii U has probably become pretty outdated as well so it is probably a good time to buy a new console.

 

Oh, and I can also buy a Vita and play PS4 games on it? Well at least the Vita has something to play on it then. (Sorry, I had to)

[Stacy]

Unfortunately your desk isn't Sony's problem.  You can't fit a PS2 on there either but you managed to get by didn't you?  They can't put extra technology into stuff just because some people might have inefficiently spaced desk setups.

 

You could stand your 360 up if you were desperate.

 

By father made this desk he did the best he could. 

 

I know its not Sony's problem. But I am pissed off none the less and I am sure I am not the only one. I said that I would still buy a PS4 but it won't be when it comes out as I feel I still would like to get the most out of my PS3 but then I would missing out of all new games and sequels. But if I bought a PS4 my PS3 would have to go into storage because I have no space for it. I am running out of shelf room for games as well.

 

Yes I have a PS2 and that is in the loft along with its games and some of aren't on PSN which I would like to replay like GTA Liberty City Stories and Vice City Stories. As well as The Getaway and its sequel Black Monday. None of them on the PSN (Yes the GTA Stories games on available for the Vita but I want to play them on my main console).

 

Like Scar said if they offer an optional emulation box upgrade I would buy one in a heartbeat.

 

If the cloud service lets you download 30 old classic games for £50 and has a great range and the subscription isn't too expensive then it would less of issue.

 

Their still wouldn't be any room if I did that to my 360 and I wouldn't want to because the desk shakes a lot as I have said it has five legs because of this and still shakes and trust me you don't want to see what is like under the desk.

 

I like to replay games now and again for the nostalgia so yes the lack of Backwards Compatibility is disappointing.

 

How about: inserting a physical game disc of PS3/PS2/PS1 into PS4, let it recognize the disc and then start game from Gaikai. In this way, the ownership of the game disc can be verified and the gamers will not need to purchase the same game again from PS store.

 

Wish Sony can hear my advice.

 

I like what this guy said but knowing Sony it is but a mere dream.

Edited February 21, 2013 by BW199148

[Scar]

A PS2/3-in-a-box would actually be a very smart idea, if they could somehow get it to cost less than £100, but component prices are unlikely to be that cheap. Oh sure the Emotion Engine probably costs nothing these days, but the Cell probably still does cost a fair amount, unless I'm mistaken.

[Tornado]

That's the cut off point here? Should they also let you play your PS2 games?

That would be fairly reasonable of them to do, yes. Hardware is certainly powerful enough I'd imagine. PS3 was never on the cards, but if they want to continue to do PS2 games on PSN like they have been for the past few years there probably wouldn't be any reason to do them differently than they do PSX games. It would allow them to drastically increase the PS2 selection available on the store with only the initial cost of developing the emulator (as opposed to what they have to do for it now). Edited February 21, 2013 by Tornado

[MykonosFan]

I'm not exaggerating, this is the best part of this whole PS4 business for me. 

 

 

SUP BITCHES

[PeanutButterDimond]

I think it's been obvious for awhile now that this gen wouldn't really have much of a graphical leap. This gen seems more prominent on easy to usr systems and their features. I don't expect a graphical leap until some companies start using Euclidean's Unlimited Detail engine after they release it and get off polygons. Graphics seem to have much more of a backseat role so far this gen now that there is no significant leap or any clear companies lagging behind in the graphics department.

[Barry the Nomad]

Keeping comparisons to other "next gen" consoles, I'd say that PS4 impressed me far more than the Wii U did. PS4 has impressive hardware, games looked good, gimmicks were implemented well. I liked that the DS4 has all the elements that I liked from the Wii U gamepad but none of the annoyances like size and second screen. But they still have second screen as an option by way of other optional devices. So yeah, overall PS4 looks far better than Wii U and it was a good enough show.

 

Now, having said that, I have to say that PS4 didn't impress me nearly as much as the jump from PS2 to PS3 did (or Xbox to XBox 360 did). I guess that is to be expected now. Graphics are hitting that point where they can't do much else aside from more details and lighting tricks. I do see the difference between PS3 and PS4, yet PS3's latest titles still impress me just as much as the PS4 offerings do. Then again, none of that affects the games. I'd even argue that graphics being tied to affecting gameplay ended with the Dreamcast/Xbox/PS2 era. Once models looked good, environments and characters and objects were well defined and framerate was high enough and pop-up was diminished, games were no longer in that funky 3D realm where you wrestled with things like "what the fuck am I looking at" 3D models and "where am I going in this fog?" moments.

 

So now, it seems, "next gen" means further integration of social features and faster load and startup times. All good, but not as amazing as when we were introduced to the current generation of consoles. 

 

---

 

Lack of PS3 backwards compatibility was to be expected, but I agree with those who are disheartened by it not being an option. It's not like I'm calling Sony out for not including it, or am calling them incompetent for not doing so. I just consider the lack of it to be a turn off to the console personally. I haven't kept up on all the analogies that have been made with wanting PS3 support in a PS4, but I think it really just comes down to the fact that PS4 cannot play PS3 games. Some people are fine with that, some people aren't. These aren't Porches or cup holders or whatever.

 

PS3 owners I can see not caring as much, which makes total sense. Those without a PS3 are in a funny situation, because PS4 does look appealing and is the future of Sony, but PS3 still is a very powerful system with a lot of great games that may or may not be on the PS4 eventually. Since we don't know exactly how or what or when PS3 games will appear on PS4, it's either just buy a PS3 to enjoy the PS3 games and wait for PS4 to build up a library and add PS3 games however they plan to do it, or go the opposite route and get a PS4 to enjoy PS4 games and wait for Sony to add PS3 games however they plan to do it.

 

Again, not a big deal, but I think it's a valid concern for some. Backwards compatibility would kill that whole juggling of two consoles, but since it isn't BC, that little niggle is there and is a frustration for some. Mainly those who want more shelf space or those who don't have a PS3 yet as is.

 

I'll give Wii U some credit, it does offer up a big library of games and allows for Wii owners to save some shelf space or non-Wii owners to buy into two generations of games. 

 

My personal preference for backwards compatibility is supporting the previous generation, but not the one before it. I think it works out well, as every one console can then play two gens of games.

[The Kid]

You know.. most of the conference I saw was mostly CGI renders... I remember when the PS3 first came out, and it showed pretty much the same graphics as im seeing now. Then I see Watch Dog... where it comes close to the Wii U version. Mostly, this "next gen" will be mostly how fast the system is, and how much things can run at the same time, instead of the graphical leap. Its all about multitasking these days, and social networking.

 

The Watchdogs demo at the PS4 conference was PC footage.

[Mollfie]

Sony has confirmed purchases made on the PlayStation Network will not carry over from PS3 to PS4. Same goes for your game saves, too.

Read more at Destructoid

 

So, yeah. That sucks. I haven't bought much through the store but some people will have so that does suck for them because you could just lose it all. At least with hard copies you have the game there in your hand. You might not be able to play it on the PS4 but you still have it. PS3 games will probably be avaliable for streaming at some point, but no one seems to be sure if you'll have to pay for it or not.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Mollfie

[Scar]

Title is a little misleading.

Its more about your purchases simply not working at all (because no emulation is possible due to architecture differences) rather than not being able to transfer stuff you've purchased. At least that is the case for now. Theoretically they probably could transfer all your data, but what's the point when you can't actually use it.....

[Carbo]

So much for those account-tied purchases being worth much in the long run.

Sony stock dropped after the conference, by the way. Not by much, mind. Japanese market was down to 1,8%, typical reveal procedure.

[Autosaver]

The idea of going with a cell processor was an awful choice. Originally it was very hard to develop for which caused some games to stay 360 exclusive with the PS3 getting crap ports. It also caused the price of the PS3 to soar due to the expensive components. It really didn't pay off compared to going the 360 route. Funny thing is, a lot of people started realizing the uncertainty of backwards comparability before these console reveals.

To people scared PS5 won't run PS4 games, don't be. Sony is going with a more streamlined approach with a more popular CPU and a popular GPU. It's likely that emulating or getting PS4 game to run on future hardware will be a piece of cake. Sony isn't using some crazy hardware this time.

Is it disappointing that PS4 won't run PS3 physical games? I guess. But at least it sounds more secure for the future.