First look at Sky Sanctuary

[Blue Blood]

Eew ew ew ew ew! BLASPHEMY AND TREASON I SAY!

Only cause Cool Edge is my most hated Unleashed stage by a wide margin.

Kinda agree. CE had nothing IC didn't, apart from the bobsled. Even the caves on the Wii version are very similar to the caverns of IC. And the slippery ice gimmick could have been added in so easily.

[Badnik Mechanic]

What the fuck do we need FOUR green levels for?

Well you see what you forget here is that the design of the stages is totally different based on what we've seen so far. From what I played of Generations (classic and modern) last weekend, you can more or less just boost/spin dash through the stages, however using the jump button at key areas is a must, otherwise you'll end up just going down the slower path or crashing into the odd rock.

However, from looking at the Sky Sancuary trailer, it doesn't appear that you can boost quite as often as you can in the GHZ, every time I watch that trailer and look ahead of whats coming, theres usually a wall or some kind of platform that you would have to stop and jump on. It gives me the sense that there is going to be a lot more platforming required in that zone than in the GHZ, by a huge distance.

I don't think one needs to scream in terror whenever we see a zone which has nature or is the product of the working class/city environment. Mainly because the level designs from what I've played and seen from the trailers look so different to play that it's going to be clearly a totally different zone, doesn't really matter all that much if there happens to be a plant or two growing by the roadside since the levels will be so different to play.

2.If your blind

If your blind.

You won't be able to read this post.

[Soniman]

Why have Ice Cap? I never saw the appeal personally, they needed to put in Hydrocity, its great level, very original, and DAT MUSIC!

[Indigo Rush]

Yes, Hydrocity is awesome, but after hearing rant after rant of people complaining about similar level tropes, don't you think it'd raise even more hell if there's ANOTHER water level?

Just throwing that out there.

[Blue Blood]

Yes, Hydrocity is awesome, but after hearing rant after rant of people complaining about similar level tropes, don't you think it'd raise even more hell if there's ANOTHER water level?

Just throwing that out there.

Oh, for goodness' sake. Is there any reason for you to start stirring shit?

Edited September 21, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

Oh, shut up. Is there any reason for you to start stirring?

I think you're taking it the wrong way, there. Did I say something wrong? Come on, dude.

Oh, for goodness' sake. Is there any reason for you to start stirring shit?

I'm not stirring anything. What's the problem?!

Edited September 21, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Blue Blood]

I think you're taking it the wrong way, there. Did I say something wrong? Come on, dude.

Joke or not, you're opening a can of worms. Do we really need to go there?

I edited my post to add a word I missed and make it sound less aggressive. It's just so annoying to see people bring up arguments when there isn't one in the first place.

EDIT: I edit too late

Edited September 21, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

Joke or not, you're opening a can of worms. Do we really need to go there?

The can was opened over a month ago, and I think all the worms are already gone. No joke.

[Agent York]

I'm not stirring anything. What's the problem?!

...Oh I get it, you're not stirring shit because we're talking about water levels. Ohohoho~

[Chibinuva]

Yes, Hydrocity is awesome, but after hearing rant after rant of people complaining about similar level tropes, don't you think it'd raise even more hell if there's ANOTHER water level?

Just throwing that out there.

Not necessarily. After all, all of Unleashed DLC was just addons to add more missions to the levels, but no knew continents. This way, they would be adding another level but it would be even more original and subsequently more awesome. I'm hoping for an Ice Cap and Hydrocity Zone 2-pack, but I doubt we'll be so lucky. A pack with a couple levels for Secret Rings would be awesome too, if we don't get lucky enough to have it in the actual game. Hmm, it's a tough decision between Sand Oasis, Dinosaur Jungle, and Night Palace. I'd actually prefer the first two, as I was never a real big fan of Night Palace, but some people feel otherwise. Or maybe a Storybook 2-pack, preferably with Great Megalith (gosh I would love to hear that remixed,) and eh, I guess Sand Oasis.

[Indigo Rush]

Not necessarily. After all, all of Unleashed DLC was just addons to add more missions to the levels, but no knew continents

Here's the difference, though: Unleashed was an original game with original levels. Yes, they were based off of existing continents, but the focus of that game is far more different than that of Generations. Generations is remaking pre-existing levels for High Definition, and therefore DLC would be based off of an incredibly vast library of levels from Sonic's history. Unleashed is a self-contained adventure. It'd be like expecting DLC for, say, Sonic Colors (if it could have DLC) and asking for all new levels to be added... that'd be neat, but it's not the same as what Generations is doing.

[Blue Blood]

Here's the difference, though: Unleashed was an original game with original levels. Yes, they were based off of existing continents, but the focus of that game is far more different than that of Generations. Generations is remaking pre-existing levels for High Definition, and therefore DLC would be based off of an incredibly vast library of levels from Sonic's history. Unleashed is a self-contained adventure. It'd be like expecting DLC for, say, Sonic Colors (if it could have DLC) and asking for all new levels to be added... that'd be neat, but it's not the same as what Generations is doing.

Adding extra levels via DLC doesn't really have to have anything to do with the context of the game. The reason whole new stages weren't added to Unleashed is because that would require a huge amount of work on top of getting the main game finished, and it's quite likely the reason they won't be added to Generations. Yes the game is about remastering stages from past adventures, but completely new stages for DLC would be really impractical. Awesome, but really unlikely. It's probably why the DLC stages in Unleashed were only mini levels or extra missions that make use of existing geometry. It takes a very long time just to make one level that ends up being pretty short.

Funny thing, some (all?) of the DLC levels in Unleashed were in production with the rest of the game from day 1, and I'm not talking about the cut areas of Arid Sands and Jungle Joyride. So the DLC probably could have been included on the disc (like Casino Night) but was made into DLC for extra profit.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

Adding extra levels via DLC doesn't really have to have anything to do with the context of the game. The reason whole new stages weren't added to Unleashed is because that would require a huge amount of work on top of getting the main game finished, and it's quite likely the reason they won't be added to Generations. Yes the game is about remastering stages from past adventures, but completely new stages for DLC would be really impractical. Awesome, but really unlikely.

Oh, I'm aware of the impracticality, I was talking about reasoning. There's a more solid reason to add new levels to Generations than to a game like Unleashed, regardless of what kind of costs it would take. Why add levels to Generations? Because there are fan favorites waiting to be released. Why add levels to Unleashed? Because someone wants their country represented...? I dunno, it doesn't seem to be the same kind of situation to me, and nostalgia alone is a strong reason for SEGA to pull that kind of stunt. They're doing it with Casino Night, after all.

Funny thing, some (all?) of the DLC levels in Unleashed were in production with the rest of the game from day 1, and I'm not talking about the cut areas of Arid Sands and Jungle Joyride. So the DLC probably could have been included on the disc (like Casino Night) but was made into DLC for extra profit.

That's also something to think about... I know it wasn't included in the demo data, but perhaps they do have assets for a couple other levels just waiting to be sold off? As you said, it didn't stop them from turning Casino Night into DLC fodder, who's to say that a level like Ice Cap or Hydrocity isn't chilling in their computer offices somewhere waiting to be released as well?

Edited September 21, 2011 by Indigo Rush

[Blue Blood]

That's also something to think about... I know it wasn't included in the demo data, but perhaps they do have assets for a couple other levels just waiting to be sold off? As you said, it didn't stop the from turning Casino Night into DLC fodder, who's to say that a level like Ice Cap or Hydrocity isn't chilling in their computer offices somewhere waiting to be released as well?

It's possible. I would expect all DLC to be planned right from the start honestly. If they can release the entire game for £40, and extra stages for £5 or more on the side, why wouldn't they?

Edited September 21, 2011 by Blue Blood

[Indigo Rush]

It's possible. I would expect all DLC to be planned right from the start honestly. If they can release the entire game for £40, and extra stages for £5 or more on the side, why wouldn't they?

Also a good point. Either they're waiting to announce it, or they'll just grab some assets from Unleashed and hash together a new layout and call it DLC. If that's the case, I vote Eggmanland.

[Mike]

I'm probably the only one who wants Pirate Storm as a dlc level.

I guess riding on rockets and surfing 50 ft waves isn't as cool as I thought.

[Soniman]

I'm probably the only one who wants Pirate Storm as a dlc level.

I guess riding on rockets and surfing 50 ft waves isn't as cool as I thought.

[Chooch]

None of these stages play or look anything alike which is why incessant complaints about level selection make no sense to me.

They haven't from day one and they never will.

[Agent York]

It's a mixture of reoccurring tropes, they look different and definitely play different, but there's a huge lack of tropes that would of been nice to see. I'm not complaining mind you, and I like what they've done so far, but I would of liked to see some more diverse possibilities.

But mind you, I am not complaining. While I would of love to have had Hang's Castle/Mystic Mansion over Seaside Hill, I absolutely adore what they've done with Seaside Hill. BUT I also am interested what they would of done with Hang's Castle if it had turned out like that.

[Chooch]

I mean the amount of variety in level themes is kind of disappointing I guess? I don't know, I suppose I just care more so about gameplay than aesthetics in this case.

Hang Castle / Mystic Mansion would have been my most ideal choice for Sonic Heroes representative, but I realize that it simply isn't that popular of a stage and isn't really as 'iconic', dare I say, as Seaside Hill. It's also more so Ocean Palace than anything else per level design, and Ocean Palace easily would have been my second choice for Heroes representative. Third Egg Fleet, next Frog Forest or whatever but I'd never pick that stage ever over the others. Fuck every other stage in that game because it sucks.

I'll admit that I don't really give a shit that Sonic 3's Ice Cap wasn't chosen, because as I said before, I think it's incredibly boring. I found basically every other ice-themed stage in Sonic history more engaging and more fun to play that I can think of. If we're bothering with Sonic 3 Ice Cap then it needs to implement elements from Sonic Adventure's Ice Cap and/or Cool Edge or its a bust.

There are seriously so many stages that I would take over Sonic 3's Ice Cap it's kind of ridiculous.

You got Flying Battery, with Sonic and company moving seamlessly through the interior and exterior of a massive, well.. battery filled with baddies and such, those huge winding metallic whatever things I used to love running around in, massive poles on the exterior to swing around, a gravity manipulation gimmick, etc etc. It's just a cool ass stage.

Lava Reef is this amazing cavern deep underground and surrounded by lava that is encasing the Death Egg prior to launch. Later on as you delve deeper inside it transitions into this mystical area with beautiful crystalline structures and moving platforms that would be absolutely gorgeous in HD providing it was picked among other things.

Sky Sanctuary? Lemme just quote this because I'm lazy:

The stage starts with the Death Egg rising out over the cloud cover, taking its place back in the sky, floating ominously over the beautiful landscape. It starts to send out Egg Robos to terrorize the place. The misunderstanding between Sonic and Knuckles has finally resolved and the two have them have set aside their differences to team up, defeat Eggman, and get back the Master Emerald.

Sonic is speeding his way up Sky Sanctuary, a place that has long been unseen and untouched by people other than Knuckles for a great number of years. He makes his way up higher and higher, destroying Egg Robos as he makes his way up using various teleportation devices before reaching the final one.

Mecha Sonic zooms by and destroys the teleportation device, a message to Sonic that 'There is no escape'. They fight one last time and he's incapacitated. The ground beneath Sonic begins to crumble and in a mad dash for the Death Egg he uses his amazing speed to climb up the tallest tower and infiltrate Eggman's mighty, Star Wars inspired stronghold.

Meanwhile Knuckles, steps away from reclaiming the Master Emerald, takes on Hyper Mecha Sonic, a Master Emerald imbued Mecha Sonic who has absorbed some of the Emerald's power. It should be noted that when Knuckles defeats Hyper Metal Sonic he doesn't sit there incapacitated, he explodes and he's gone for good.

Sky Sanctuary is fucking epic, tragic, and beautiful all at the same time.

Edited September 21, 2011 by Chooch

[\Lennox]

Why have Ice Cap? I never saw the appeal personally, they needed to put in Hydrocity, its great level, very original, and DAT MUSIC!

Okay. Need I remind you about how many Ice Cap remixes are on YouTube alone!?

There are probably hundreds, no, thousands of remixes of that track and that's not even counting the bad ones.

^{_{I'd love to see Lava Reef, or Sandopolis, however.}}

[Indigo Rush]

Ice Cap stands out not only because it's the first traditional snow level in a Sonic game, but it opens up with a pretty unforgettable snowboard section and actually features 3 environments in one: an alpine mountain (snowboard part) a blue cave with glowing crystal structures, and an oceanside arctic setting with icebergs in the distance. That's like, Ice Cap from Sonic Adventure and Cool Edge already combined into one level, only in 1994. And that music is probably the crowning jewel in all of Sonic 3, if the opinions of many are to be accounted for.

[Chooch]

What was so amazing about the snowboarding section in Sonic 3's Ice Cap? Seriously. It was basically entirely scripted and the most you could do is jump a single time before it was over.

If you did all that would happen is that you'd miss rings. I realized that about Ice Cap even back when I was a kid.

[FlameKoetsu]

Cool Edge basically sounds like Ice Cap from Sonic 3 in 3D with the snowboard replaced for the sled. And to be honest, I don't really see the hype of the S3 Ice Cap snowboarding because it was short and all you could do was jump. If you did jump, you missed rings and shortened that whole little section. Now the Adventure Ice Cap was pretty interesting with the avalanche, "being long", and even the missles.

[Indigo Rush]

What was so amazing about the snowboarding section in Sonic 3's Ice Cap?

It wasn't exactly euphoric, no, but it was a great way to start a level, and that really helped it stand out. It helped bring out Sonic's "cool factor" as well.

There wasn't much to making that snowboarding level, but it certainly left a strong impression on a lot of people.