TailsTube Episode 5 Confirms What We All Know, Everyone Likes Mighty More Than Sonic

1 minute ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Flawed or not, I must say I am glad they're trying to acknowledge all these games as existing in a single continuity.

I can get a lot more invested in the world if I believe that all the games are all acknowledged to have happened, and this isn't just some loose series of disconnected stories and legends centering around the same figures.

Very nice, Dr. Mechano.

Now, if Sega could re-release SegaSonic Arcade and Knuckles’ Chaotix in some way…

I know there have been difficulties of doing so in the past, but releasing them in a Sonic Origins-like collection of games, possibly with some things remade, would be sweet!

4 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

Flawed or not, I must say I am glad they're trying to acknowledge all these games as existing in a single continuity.

I can get a lot more invested in the world if I believe that all the games are all acknowledged to have happened, and this isn't just some loose series of disconnected stories and legends centering around the same figures.

Nobody wants a series of loose disconnected stories, but it's important to go back and fix what doesn't work. If SEGA themselves are too lazy to do that, then let someone else who isn't do it (who actually wants to), instead of coming up with bullsh** excuses that insult peoples' intelligence.

They might as well just say "a wizard did it" (and regardless of context), or "Time Eater".

And I strongly prefer

rather than trying to make a Yamcha (i.e. a joke) out of the echidna (obsessed with punching things and making empty boasts) as shown in both Frontiers DLC and TailsTube #5.

9 minutes ago, Johnny2071 said:

rather than trying to make a Yamcha (i.e. a joke) out of the echidna (obsessed with punching things and making empty boasts) as shown in both Frontiers DLC and TailsTube #5.

I wouldn't worry about him being fooled. Knuckles hasn't been tricked by Eggman since Sonic Advance 2, over 20 years ago.

They've acknowledged that Knuckles used to get tricked by Eggman all the time, but all of these instances were in the 90s and early 00s. 

I actually think that Frontiers handled Knuckles with dignity and wrote him well overall. Making him a little boastful is just an endearing character flaw, not something that makes him a joke. 

On 10/10/2023 at 11:37 AM, Spooky Gems said:

So, I am glad Mighty, Ray and Fang were mentioned, and it seems they are out there somewhere in Sonic’s world.

Maybe if they mention Bean and Bark next time, they could mention Honey the Cat, too.

Still, Sonic the Fighters was brought up, which had 8 Chaos Emeralds instead of 7. How would that be incorporated into Sonic canon, if it really is canon?

Well there are two possible routes.

A: Since one of the emeralds also came from your fake created by Eggman, the emerald itself also could be fake.

B: Knuckles is shown to have the ability to shrink down the ME in SA2 so maybe his emerald is actually the ME.

5 minutes ago, The Swordsman said:

Well there are two possible routes.

A: Since one of the emeralds also came from your fake created by Eggman, the emerald itself also could be fake.

B: Knuckles is shown to have the ability to shrink down the ME in SA2 so maybe his emerald is actually the ME.

That is interesting. I did not know one of the Emeralds in Sonic the Fighters was a fake, if I understood correctly.

22 hours ago, GentlemanX said:

Not really any new information given classic=past was established in an earlier TailsTube and stuff like Knuckles' Chatotix was confirmed in the Bumblekast a while ago, but it's nice hearing the modern voice cast actually talk about these characters again. Assuming all of season two will be formatted like this for now until proven otherwise.

Well from the sound of it Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean and Bark are all still around in the modern era so the possibility of them finally getting canon modern designs is now on the table instead being not even being a possibility.

1 hour ago, The Swordsman said:

Well from the sound of it Mighty, Ray, Fang, Bean and Bark are all still around in the modern era so the possibility of them finally getting canon modern designs is now on the table instead being not even being a possibility.

I mean, theoretically, sure. But 1. Again, that's not new information. Unless we assumed characters like Mighty and Fang died it stood to reason they were still around in the Modern Era when TailsTube 1 and 4 both reference the classic games as having happened in the past. Sega's not likely to kill off many of their supporting cast - certainly not when they keep appearing in new material like the comics or get new merch, so it was a safe bet they were neatly tucked away somewhere away from the Modern cast.

And 2. The character embargo is still in effect. Having the Classic Era acknowledged as the past hasn't changed the status of those characters in terms of their ability to show up in Modern material. They're allowed to be referenced now in regards to past events, they're not considered retired anymore. But they are still not considered part of the Modern brand. Sega currently still wants Classic and Modern Sonic to be separate brands with their own specific casts that don't intersect more than they are allowed. This TailsTube doesn't allow the Classic Chaotix to show up again, it just allows them to acknowledge the Classic Chaotix were a thing. That's because the Chaotix, despite being created in the Classic Era, are considered part of the Modern brand, not the Classic one.

I know that all sounds like unnecessarily limiting brand guidelines and red tape - and that's because it is. Until something changes internally at Sega, this is how it is for the foreseeable future.

Sally and the TV show characters don't get to show up at all regardless of Classic or Modern even though Sega owns them and they appear in Spinball which is considered canon, so by comparison yeah these characters are a lot better off. Yes I continue to be bitter, why do you ask?

I hope this is a mild clue / bait to fish for interest in a Sonic Origins 2 type collection which includes Chaotix, SegaSonic, Fighters, 16-bit Spinball, 16-bit Sonic 3d, the 32 bit version too.

But yes, some good tidying up here with Fang, Mania and SegaSonic. I eagerly await the Adventure redesign and Shadow the hedgehog clear ups next lol.

If Knuckles Chaotix is canon, this means Sonic 4 isn't canon as Metal Sonic is smashed up on little planet from the evens of CD. The Chaotix don't know who Eggman is in Sonic Heroes either, so that can't be canon.

25 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

If Knuckles Chaotix is canon, this means Sonic 4 isn't canon as Metal Sonic is smashed up on little planet from the evens of CD. The Chaotix don't know who Eggman is in Sonic Heroes either, so that can't be canon.

Charmy says "Dr. Who?" But that could just be Charmy being absentminded. 

Alternatively, the canon route of Chaotix just never has Charmy take on the boss levels. So he just never ran into the guy personally.

To me, it only seems Espio knows who he is. Especially if you see the Japanese dialogue, that's if this video is actually accurate with them. These characters don't seem to be the same as the ones in Knuckles Chaotix.

https://youtu.be/3zJVPZEDOa4?feature=shared

Could always be a retcon. They retconned the other dimension dialogue from Forces into it just being the past. Maybe that part of Heroes is wrong now.

13 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

To me, it only seems Espio knows who he is. Especially if you see the Japanese dialogue, that's if this video is actually accurate with them. These characters don't seem to be the same as the ones in Knuckles Chaotix.

https://youtu.be/3zJVPZEDOa4?feature=shared

That's because they weren't at the time. The Chaotix were reinvented for Sonic Heroes which was meant to be their new debut to the series. Knuckles' Chaotix was no longer considered canon. Things have changed, and Knuckles' Chaotix is considered canon again, resulting in the lines in Sonic Heroes becoming plot holes. Stuff like this is inevitable as (almost) everything gets shoved together when it wasn't originally planned as such. Most fans want everything to matter and I hope most will accept there's going to be some leeway needed on our part in order for this to work.

Minor inconsistencies like this, the "another dimension" line in Forces, Holy Summit in Battle, stuff in Sonic Prime, and more aren't worth losing sleep over.

The Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 problem is a big plot hole though that game can't be canon if the new Classic games and Knuckles Chaotix is canon.

If I remember correctly though, the Eggman problem isn't a thing in Sonic X which could mean X is the true events of Shadow's Amnesia plot.

If we are gonna accept plot holes I'll accept the X tornado and the absence of characters in that show. I'd like X to be canon.

8 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

The Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 problem is a big plot hole though that game can't be canon if the new Classic games and Knuckles Chaotix is canon.

If I remember correctly though, the Eggman problem isn't a thing in Sonic X which could mean X is the true events of Shadow's Amnesia plot.

If we are gonna accept plot holes I'll accept the X tornado and the absence of characters in that show. I'd like X to be canon.

Triple Trouble used Metal too which is obviously incompatible with Sonic 4 as well.

Maybe in Sonic 4, Eggman time traveled and picked up Metal Sonic from the past. I don't know.

Not the first time the series has had weird continuity snarls, like the whole Blaze/Eggman Nega debacle.

The Blaze and Eggman Nega thing is easy to explain though. Blaze can travel Dimensions and time with her set of stones. Nega can also do this, I think haha I'm sure he has his own machine or something... or he uses the stones too. Nega works with Eggman in the Rush games but hates him in rivals because Eggman failed him in the rush games. The Metal in 4 thing is a bit of a bigger hole and seems that they want to retcon that game out. The Chaotix not knowing Eggman seems like a big hole too, unless they want us to believe that X is the actual events, since I think the Chaotix know Eggman from the get go and there isn't any dialogue holes. If Heroes isn't canon though that messes up the comics being canon, well unless that's the first time Metal went Neo on that arc before the metal virus.

Cosmo Pot also shows up on the episode. Sonic X seems to be canon. I think Heroes is retconned

15 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Cosmo Pot also shows up on the episode. Sonic X seems to be canon. I think Heroes is retconned

Not the entirety of Heroes, I wouldn't think. The Chaotix Detective Agency is still a thing, as is Neo Metal Sonic, Omega, etc.

Ah yeah I forgot about Omega that's harder to explain. Great haha. The Chaotix Detective agency is still a thing in X.

In the past, Ian has stated that Sonic 4 is canon. At some point between Sonic CD and Sonic 4, Metal ends up disabled on the Little Planet again similar to the events of Sonic CD at which point he's picked up by Eggman.

Heroes is absolutely still canon. It's the first game to introduce Omega and the game is regularly referenced - you want to bring up IDW, the first panel of the entire series shows Sonic during his fight with the Egg Emperor. They're not going to make a mainline game noncanon for the sake of a game that's never left the 32X. Come on now.

Sonic X should be considered noncanon, though the references to Cosmo are worth discussing. Decoe, Bocoe, and Bokkun are certainly not a thing, the events of SA1, SA2, and Battle are incompatible with the versions in Sonic X, and TailsTube 1 establishes that humans live on continents; not other dimensions. IF the plant is really meant to be Cosmo, it would likely be that a version of the Metarex arc took place in the game universe - that's what I lean towards but there's no official word about that being the case either. It could not be Cosmo and is just a visual easter egg. Until they do something with it, we can only speculate.

The only games I know of that are expressly known to be noncanon are Sonic Pocket Adventure, Sonic Pinball Party, and Sonic Chronicles. Some more titles should be obvious like Sonic Dash or Sonic Schoolhouse, but those are the only three I know Ian's stated before are expressly noncanon. Though he also stated at one point Labyrinth was noncanon only to say a short time later things were changed and it was canon again, so things may continue to change in the future.

35 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Cosmo Pot also shows up on the episode. Sonic X seems to be canon. I think Heroes is retconned

I mean... it can't be. Not entirely.

Sonic X relies on the "two worlds" story, which is very explicitly not true in the games.

I just want to say that the idea that there's two separate dimensions in SA absolutely never made sense to me. Angel Island and the Echidna civilisation are in that world, as is Chaos. The ruins in the Mystic Jungle, separate from Angel Island, are there too. There's nothing anywhere that would indicate they're in a different dimension.

31 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

I just want to say that the idea that there's two separate dimensions in SA absolutely never made sense to me. Angel Island and the Echidna civilisation are in that world, as is Chaos. The ruins in the Mystic Jungle, separate from Angel Island, are there too. There's nothing anywhere that would indicate they're in a different dimension.

The Japanese version of SA1 also has NPCs talk about Little Planet and the events of Sonic CD. (This dialogue was also in the demo version in English, but weirdly not in the final game; Japanese version did include it in the final game though!)

So yeah, back then one world was definitely the intention. Later, Iizuka really liked the idea of two worlds (perhaps inspired by Sonic X), but this never made sense and he's gone back on that since then.

40 minutes ago, GentlemanX said:

Decoe, Bocoe, and Bokkun

You could probably say at a push that Eggman dismantled them and re made them into Cubot and that.

Also maybe the Earth merged back into one because chaos control has been used frequently.

42 minutes ago, Phoenix said:

Angel Island and the Echidna civilisation are in that world, as is Chaos. The ruins in the Mystic Jungle, separate from Angel Island, are there too. There's nothing anywhere that would indicate they're in a different dimension.

Now I may be wrong here, it's been awhile since I've watched the show but...

The two Earth's were originally one but something happened and it split them into two. When Chaos Control is used things get transported to the other Earth.

Now, I remember the games using this story, which is why GUN doesn't show up in games like Heroes and Forces. This is also why Eggman says "Sonic's world" in Colours.