Unleashed Daytime Gameplay: Good or Bad?

[Sion-Ta]

That was indeed a horrible analogy.

[ChikaBoing]

But Gamespot,IGN,etc. saw the whole thing as "cheap deaths that aren't my fault + werehog = waah."

Edited May 12, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Eternal EX]

Now compare that to the boost, where you can break the sound barrier with a single press of a button, even if you're standing still at the time... Wut?

Edited May 12, 2011 by Eternal Awesomeness

[Nepenthe]

It's funny that you bring up Mario's jumps, as that illustrates my point of Unleashed's boost not feeling natural quite well. Think of how you perform all Mario's different jumps; to do a side-somersault, you need to quickly change your direction, and press the jump button, this is a very natural-feeling move as your control input is essentially the move that you are performing, you're changing your direction and jumping to jump in the opposite direction. Likewise with moves like the Long Jump and the Black flip; with these moves you're bending your knees and building your leg strength to gain more height/distance. This also makes sense.

Now compare that to the boost, where you can break the sound barrier with a single press of a button, even if you're standing still at the time... Wut?

When you break it down like that, it starts to become a bit of a false dichotomy. Mario's moves are all physical and- like Sonic's actual physical maneuvers- require more input to be properly perceived and timed. What the boost is is nothing but instant acceleration, essentially a faster way to run. And in platformers, or essentially any game that isn't QWOP, running and general acceleration are always delegated to one button. How much more natural do you need that to be? Pretty soon, Sega are going to think we need a QWOP set up. And frankly, considering what we've seen the character do within the actual games, instant acceleration is hardly an issue of breaking suspension of disbelief.

Regardless, that seems to be missing the general point of my analogy: Mario's jumps are an inherent tool to conquer the level design; you don't need to survive for ten seconds unscathed to be able to "earn" the privilege to jump, and frankly no one wants that. So why in the world has it been seen as asinine to suggest the same for Sonic in regards to his speed when he is "the fastest thing alive"? And please don't tell me that's a false notion due to bad western marketing either. xP

Never saw the issue with that myself. Secret Rings had a very unique control scheme at the time of its release, so starting you off with a slower character was a good way of getting the player used to the controls. Also the game was very RPG-like in nature, where unlocking new abilities and increasing your attributes is common-place... so yeah. XD;

There are plenty of other ways to get players used to unique control schemes without essentially gimping the character's basic abilities. Sonic could hardly turn that well at the outset, just one of many turn-offs, and there was no need to relegate this to an RPG element. Unleashed ironically demonstrates how this should be done properly: You're enhancing your repertoire, not earning it.

[Sion-Ta]

Well it makes sense since it is SONIC. If it were someone like Knuckles, Eggman or anyone else that does not usually reach top speed within seconds then it would not. I actually enjoy the Boost, jumping from nothing to basically top speed in an instant.

Huh, a snarky comment that I made on someone's status has been used against me... Okay that's hilarious. XD

This is where I can not agree at all. The controls were bad for sonic. It was unique but very bad.

I didn't really say anything about Secret Rings having good controls. I said that they were different, and required a lot of getting used to.

Shake the mote to jump...Uh yeah no. That does not work very well.

... You've never actually played Secret Rings have you? You don't shake the wiimote to jump, you press a button. o_O;

Tilt it forward to move foward and eventually reach top speed. NO. Bad.

Yup you definitely haven't played Secret Rings. You don't tilt it forward to move... It's on-rails, you move automatically, you only have to worry about jumping and moving left and right...

And beating the game or getting so far into the game just to unlock better handling and ect...? This is not Ninja Gaiden, Need for speed, God of war or any other random game on the market where it is okay to do a run through first before unlocking better skills for your character. Sonic should have started off with good RESPONSIVE controls. Not the crap they gave us and made use for....however long it took to beat it. And the RPG style in sonic....did not work well in that one game. Yeah if done right it would be fine but it sucked more shit than Sonic labyrinth.

It's funny that you mention God of War, since the Werehog basically rips it off. XD

Anyway the controls remain as responsive as they were when you begin. If you can't learn to get along with the controls at the beginning, you're not going to unlock anything that'll change that. The RPG elements do not affect how well the game controls.

An RPG style that did work well was the upgrade feature in UNLEASHED HD. Speed sections, you had very limited Boost and your max speed was still high but not at it's peak. Same for night hog. You started off with very limited combos, low health and low rage. By Eggmanland you was set to go. Uh Correction Adabat. That worked great, even though the world hated werehog and bitched that he had.....Wait wrong topic for that.

I found the level up system to be quite pointless for normal Sonic. Even with the smallest boost bar, I always had enough to carry me throughout the entire stage. I never noticed any difference after levelling him up. :/

Worked fantastically for the Werehog though.

Unleashed HD was actually a great sonic game. One I'd buy again and play over Colors. And like everyone said already BOOSTing through the stage on your first run was dumb. That was just asking for a death right off the back. I mean who would actually try to blow through a new sonic game using boost the whole way through, not knowing what could hit them or what random bottomless pit awakes them?

Agreed... while I do prefer Colours for its exploration and Sonic-only gameplay, Unleashed still holds a special place in my heart. I have played every day stage about fifty times, and I never seem to get bored of them. X3 I also agree that it's just common sense that if boosting's getting you killed, then you should just let go of the X Button. I've never been arguing against the boost, I've just been suggesting something that'll please people that can't seem to understand that not-boosting is an option, while in reality doesn't really change much.

WRONG! Ign raped Secret rings for all the candy it had. By the time they finished reviewing the game, there was not much anything from anyone. Plus not many other game sites rated that game very well.

69% on Metacritic and 71% on GameRanking isn't too bad.

It was a SONIC only game but in general it was not a good one. And to this day we all already agree that IGN played and reviewed the wrong game for the wrong console. There is literally no way Unleashed wii/PS2 was in anyway better than Unleashed HD. And this comes from the guy who looks at all kinds of game reviews.

To be fair, it's not like it was the same person that reviewed the two Unleashed versions. If the guy who reviewed the SD versions played the HD versions, he might have given it a higher score and vice versa. Also as much as I love the HD versions and hate the SD versions, the latter didn't have medal collecting that halted your progress. :/

Edit: I'll wait for someone else to post, and then I'll reply to you Nepenthe. This post is big enough as it is. XD;

Edited May 12, 2011 by Sion-Ta

[Eternal EX]

Huh, a snarky comment that I made on someone's status has been used against me... Okay that's hilarious. XD

Haha. It was to easy.

I didn't really say anything about Secret Rings having good controls. I said that they were different, and required a lot of getting used to.

... You've never actually played Secret Rings have you? You don't shake the wiimote to jump, you press a button. o_O;

Yup you definitely haven't played Secret Rings. You don't tilt it forward to move... It's on-rails, you move automatically, you only have to worry about jumping and moving left and right...

Actually I have. And it left a very sour taste in me. Guess you was able to change it. I was stuck with moving the mote to do everything. And that alone killed it for me. Plus I guess not being much of a fan of the stupid wii mote didn't help. The controls were very blah to me. Killed the whole experience. Then again that was many years ago when I was left playing either Sonic 06, Heroes, Shadow the hedgehog or past Gamecube titles on the wii. Can't say much for Black Knight though.

69% on Metacritic and 71% on GameRanking isn't too bad.

When you compare it to Sonic Rush, Rush adventure, Advance 1-3, Sonic battle, Chronicles, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 4 & now Sonic Colors. Yeah I'd consider it pretty bad. All the titles I mention have at least an average score of 80% or higher.

To be fair, it's not like it was the same person that reviewed the two Unleashed versions. If the guy who reviewed the SD versions played the HD versions, he might have given it a higher score and vice versa. Also as much as I love the HD versions and hate the SD versions, the latter didn't have medal collecting that halted your progress. :/

True I'll give you that one.

And I edited it like write after I typed it and before you posted. So you probably missed the last thing I said.

It got hit, just not as hard as they should have. Plus not many other game sites rated that game very well. It was a SONIC only game but in general it was not a good one. To be honest I'm surprised it got an average score of 6-7 out of 10. Did the music save them that much? I know the voice acting didn't.

And to this day we all already agree that IGN played and reviewed the wrong game for the wrong console. There is literally no way Unleashed wii/PS2 was in anyway better than Unleashed HD.

Had to look Secrets rings up before I shoot out false information.

With added links in the edited version.

[Tobbii]

Actually I have. And it left a very sour taste in me. Guess you was able to change it. I was stuck with moving the mote to do everything. And that alone killed it for me. Plus I guess not being much of a fan of the stupid wii mote didn't help. The controls were very blah to me. Killed the whole experience. Then again that was many years ago when I was left playing either Sonic 06, Heroes, Shadow the hedgehog or past Gamecube titles on the wii. Can't say much for Black Knight though.

You can't change the controls in Secret Rings, you always jump with a button. Homing attack by shaking down and the game uses auto run. But by tilting back you can walk backwads.

When you compare it to Sonic Rush, Rush adventure, Advance 1-3, Sonic battle, Chronicles, Sonic Heroes, Sonic 4 & now Sonic Colors. Yeah I'd consider it pretty bad. All the titles I mention have at least an average score of 80% or higher.

Comparing games with different scores does not make them bad games. It's over 50%, meaning it's above average. 71/100 is without doubt a "good" score where as 80 is "great". If higher scores on one game makes other games bad, then pretty much every game ever made is "pretty bad".

Edited May 12, 2011 by Tobbii

[Eternal EX]

You can't change the controls in Secret Rings, you always jump with a button. Homing attack by shaking down and the game uses auto run. But by tilting back you can walk backwads.

Comparing games with different scores does not make them bad games. It's over 50%, meaning it's above average. 71/100 is without doubt a "good" score where as 80 is "great". If higher scores on one game makes other games bad, then pretty much every game ever made is "pretty bad".

Well I guess I just hated out Secret rings controlled. Maybe if by some luck one day I gave it a second chance I might like it. & Secrets rings compared the list I mentioned plus SA1 and 2. Secrets rings was a bad game....In my eyes. Black knight was worst but lets not go into that.

[Tobbii]

I thought Secret Rings was good. Short, but good.

But yeah, Black Knight... Ugh.

[ChikaBoing]

I'll just say that one thing I appreciate about Unleashed, despite having Werehog and stuff that are "filler", the Daytime Gameplay combined with 9 lenghty Main stages,Mini-stages, and DLC will really keep you satisfied, as they really inch out every potential out of every level trope and game mechanic they have. So even if you just like the Daytime Levels, you will be really satisfied.

But in games like SA2 the Sonic/Shadow Levels are too short, and two of Shadows Levels use the same assets of Sonic.Theres no way you would be satisfied with the game if you don't enjoy the other gameplay.

Also in Colors you just felt that there just could be more to it with the existing level themes and some more situational Wisp usage.

Edited May 13, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Sega DogTagz]

I found the level up system to be quite pointless for normal Sonic. Even with the smallest boost bar, I always had enough to carry me throughout the entire stage. I never noticed any difference after levelling him up. :/

Somebody needs to take a day trip back to Shamar.

The change in Sonic's top speed is actually fairly drastic. Whereas a half leveled up Hedgehog would not have a prayer at outrunning the falling pillars at the end of that stage, Max speed Sonic can blow by them with ease.

[Eternal EX]

Somebody needs to take a day trip back to Shamar.

The change in Sonic's top speed is actually fairly drastic. Whereas a half leveled up Hedgehog would not have a prayer at outrunning the falling pillars at the end of that stage, Max speed Sonic can blow by them with ease.

Not really. One of the last pillars before you do a wall run at the end actually can hit you even if you are maxed out in speed. I know because I've been smashed by it. Then again if you snake drift like some people do in speed runs you may not have to worry about boosting. You'll be moving WAAAAY faster snake drifting+boost tha you do normally with the boost. Want proof? Watch Adabat day act 1.

[Sega DogTagz]

Not really. One of the last pillars before you do a wall run at the end actually can hit you even if you are maxed out in speed. I know because I've been smashed by it. Then again if you snake drift like some people do in speed runs you may not have to worry about boosting. You'll be moving WAAAAY faster snake drifting+boost tha you do normally with the boost. Want proof? Watch Adabat day act 1.

Well easily may be a bit of an exaggeration, but its a heck of a lot farther than you can get with Sonic on your first or second attempt at the stage. I recently got to sit down with a friend's non-leveled up copy of the game and Sonic honestly felt slow.

That is one thing I'd never thought I'd say about an Unleashed style game, but it truthfully is. Sonic's top speed is noticeably faster.

[Kuzu]

My only major issue (now granted this is just little ol' me) is the way Sonic acts. The dialogue in both games is ear bleeding bad. In Colors especially, Sonic has the personality of a rock and a awful sense of humor (bbbe....no). He acts very stale now, and really doesn't have any real personality. Tails thankfully sounds great, but his dialogue is VERY bland and he comes off more as a tool to aid Sonic then his best friend/sidekick.

Really, he's had more personality in COlors than in any other game before it.

[Sami]

Really, he's had more personality in COlors than in any other game before it.

While I agree with you, it's just a YMMV sort of thing. A discussion about it will literally go absolutely nowhere, even if both sides are intelligent.

[Kuzu]

While I agree with you, it's just a YMMV sort of thing. A discussion about it will literally go absolutely nowhere, even if both sides are intelligent.

True, we may as well label anything in this fanbase as YMMV.

[Sami]

To all who say the Unleashed style of gameplay isn't capable of giving us platforming:

Happy day.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Dissident

[Nepenthe]

You mean they can put platforming sections in there to break up the linear running sections like what we saw in every single level in Unleashed? Someone call Murdoch to put out a Fox News Alert.

[lounge]

To all who say the Unleashed style of gameplay isn't capable of giving us platforming:

Happy day.

[ChikaBoing]

I don't see what the big deal is. In the 3D Super Mario games it's fun because you have so many jumping tricks at your disposal. All sonic's doing in that video is jumping from from one spinning platform to the next. He's not even home attacking the ground to gain momentum. (which you can't do in this game) This is why the game isn't fun for me. There's no sense of realism in the physics.

The platforming in Final Rush for example is fun platforming because of how much height you can pick up by homing in on the upward rails, and you have a trick based system to take advantage of.

Tough Final Rush is not really plattforming.It's more like momentum based grinding and doing tricks. I don't see which type of plattforming you would like in Sonic, in Adventure when you jump from plattform to plattform you don't carry any momentum despite at which speed he's running at, in Unleashed he does carry momentum more realisticilly.

Edited May 15, 2011 by ChikaBoing

[Sami]

I don't see what the big deal is. In the 3D Super Mario games it's fun because you have so many jumping tricks at your disposal. All sonic's doing in that video is jumping from from one spinning platform to the next. He's not even home attacking the ground to gain momentum. (which you can't do in this game) This is why the game isn't fun for me. There's no sense of realism in the physics.

The platforming in Final Rush for example is fun platforming because of how much height you can pick up by homing in on the upward rails, and you have a trick based system to take advantage of.

Actually no. Momentum plays a far more important role in Unleashed's platforming than it did in any other 3D game. In the others, you could simply jump and move forward, or air dash and be almost guaranteed to land on the platform. In Unleashed, you need a running start; otherwise you won't make it. Also, the trick system gave no sense of realistic physics at all. Quite the opposite, actually. Time the jump correctly, and you'll launch forward like a fucking missile. That's not realistic.

[Diogenes]

I disagree with lounge on a lot of things, but he's spot-on here. Simply having platforms and the ability to jump on them doesn't make for satisfying platforming.

[Scar]

I don't see what the big deal is. In the 3D Super Mario games it's fun because you have so many jumping tricks at your disposal.

Mario has entirely different level design and gameplay. Mario games nowadays are centred around platforms hovering over MASSIVE pits of death. Last I checked, people start crying tears of blood and start spitting fire at the sight of a bottomless pit in Sonic games and most absolutely hated Heroes, for having levels floating above death-pits.

Comparing the two back in the 90's was ridiculous, and comparing them now is even more ridiculous, given how different the design philosophies of each character are.

All sonic's doing in that video is jumping from from one spinning platform to the next. He's not even home attacking the ground to gain momentum. (which you can't do in this game) This is why the game isn't fun for me. There's no sense of realism in the physics.

I don't understand. Jumping from platform to platform is....platforming. Hence the term "platformers". What are you suggesting? Heck most of the platforming in SA1, and SA2 simply involved jumping from one platform to another. I suppose you could change the type of platforms...Unleashed has a fairly large variety of platforms in later stages....

Also, I'd just like to point out that Sonic's physics have never ever been realistic. Even in the Classic games. You know those half-pipes from Spring Yard Zone? Yeah well, if Sonic had realistic physics, then you would ot be able to gain height by rolling up and down the sides. You'd only ever go as high as the height you fell in from. In fact, if they had realistic drag and friction, then you would actually lose height from rolling.

SA2 has even less logical physics. Firstly, you can turn 90 degrees on a dime, whilst travelling at maximum speed. Inertia doesn't work that way. If SA2 had any realism in the physics, then Sonic would arc from side to side, with shallow turning angles. Additionally, the whole concept of the homing attack defies physics anyway. The jumping in SA2 actually competely cancels any and all inertia Sonic has and he floats in the air, as if he's on the moon.

If anything, Sonic Unleashed has physics that more closely resemble real-world physics. Why? Because Sonic has a large turning circle at high speeds. Sonic becomes harder to steer from side to side, the faster he goes. The jumping has a greater weight to it. Once you jump up, you fall back down quite quickly. The jump also carries a fairly chunky percentage (in fact, almost all of it) of any momentum/inertia you have before you jump.

Also Sonic has the air boost, and accelerates MUCH faster than he did in SA2 (and travels much faster as well) and so has no need for a move that can aide his acceleration.

The platforming in Final Rush for example is fun platforming because of how much height you can pick up by homing in on the upward rails, and you have a trick based system to take advantage of.

The trick based system is basically jumping at the right time. That barely even qualifies as a trick system. And you have the boost, so you don't need to homing attack rails.

Edited May 15, 2011 by Scar

[ChikaBoing]

I disagree with lounge on a lot of things, but he's spot-on here. Simply having platforms and the ability to jump on them doesn't make for satisfying platforming.

Tough how else should you do it in a 3d Sonic game?

[Nepenthe]

I think the point being made is that the Unleashed formula is very much capable of having platforming exist alongside the speed sections (if you want to make the argument that the speed sections aren't platforming, but that's a conversation for another day), and that its reputation as being nothing but "X = win" is a bit undeserved in that regard. Whether the platforming that currently exists in the daytime stages tickles your fancy is irrelevant to the fact that it's nonetheless there.