How Should The Story For The Next Sonic Game Be?

[RidersDX]

I think deep and well thought out plots are the way to go. Colors wasn't deep nor well thought out, and considering that with the numerous cringe-worthy lines, yeah, I prefer deeper plots, like SA2.

[Dark Qiviut]

This. And I thought I was the only one who thought this, the part in bold especially. Colours did have some funny moments, but much of it fell flat, the lack of characters for Sonic to interact with often the cause for this. Those robot trash-talking moments were grating and often very cringeworthy, as well.

The lack of characters doesn't actually matter. He could stare around and talk to himself about it. Praise it, critique it, yet give it a flavor that fits his character. Aside from one or TWO scenes, Sonic was not himself in the pre- (and sometimes post-) boss cutscenes in Colors. The trash-talking moments were way too exaggerated for even a cocky guy like him. That was my biggest problem in many of Colors's cutscenes. Not really for being cringeworthy, but how O.O.C. the lines of "humor" were!

But apparently I'm the weirdo for preferring Eggman's PA announcements to Sonic's cheesy lines.

May I join you as one of them weirdos? The PA announcements were hilarious, smart, AND in character. Shockingly, Pollack was the one who thought up these lines; and they were much, much better than any of the "lines" and "characterization" from Sonic written by the Happy Tree Friends crew. Edited February 4, 2011 by Dark Qiviut

[HyperPeanut]

The plots should be lighthearted yet complex and story driven(ala Mario RPGs). Not overly serious yet not too over-the-top cartoony. Humor is a must yet it should be serious when appropriate. Unleashed seems to be as close as its been to this, but fell short with the lack of characters to interact with(and the fact that Chip pretty much jacked Tails role as sidekick).

[Mangoaxe5]

I want to see storylines along the line of the Sonic Adventure games. I don't like the humor that was in Sonic Colors, it remined me too much of AOSTH which I'm not a fan of.

[Ferno]

^Didn't see that coming.

[DarkLight]

The plots should be lighthearted yet complex and story driven(ala Mario RPGs). Not overly serious yet not too over-the-top cartoony. Humor is a must yet it should be serious when appropriate. Unleashed seems to be as close as its been to this, but fell short with the lack of characters to interact with(and the fact that Chip pretty much jacked Tails role as sidekick).

Sonic, Chip, Tails, Prof. Pickle, Amy, Eggman, Orbot, and the denizens of all the continents.

Seems like a decent-sized cast to interact with to me.

And I can totally see Tails fit into the Earth-god role very well.

Oh wow, I like to get off-topic...

Edited February 4, 2011 by DragonSoul

[HyperPeanut]

Sonic, Chip, Tails, Prof. Pickle, Amy, Eggman, Orbot, and the denizens of all the continents.

Seems like a decent-sized cast to interact with to me.

I only meant interaction between the recurring cast which just meant Sonic, Tails, Amy, Eggman, and I guess now Orbot. Normally this would be a large enough cast of recurring characters on their own, but only Sonic, Chip, Eggman, and I guess Prof. Pickle actually had a significant impact on the plot. And there was hardly any interaction with Tails and Amy outside of dialogue in the hub worlds and an occasional cutscene(and in Tails case a couple of flight mini-games in the HD version). And the character interaction that did occur wasn't really that great anyway. There certainly weren't any memorable moments and didn't lead to any character development.

And I can totally see Tails fit into the Earth-god role very well.

Way to completely miss the point.

[K.T.E.]

I like stories that move around a bit and blend action with good drama. It would be awesome if some voice acting greats would step in for the project. The action stages have to be fast paced and fun, but as story goes, what I like to see is character development. I feel as if many characters are inconsistently portrayed, varying between one-dimensional and deep. There needs to be parts of the plot in which we get to see characters acting..realistically, with believable emotions. Not all the time, but some.

[SykoTech]

One thing I definitely do NOT want to see again is the each-character-gets-their-own-story thing that Sonic Adventure started that's such a crappy way of constructing a plot. It's like having to sit through a movie 3 or more times from different viewpoints just to be able to tell what the hell's going on. There should be just one, focused story. Mainly from Sonic's perspective, but switching to others would be fine, as long as it's done sparingly.

As for the tone of the story, something along the lines of a Ratchet and Clank plot would be ideal. For those unfamiliar with that franchise, here's a trailer.

R&C has plots with progression and signficance, something Colors wasn't good at.

But R&C also has a good sense of humor and structure, something the Adventure games weren't good at.

I'd like to see Sonic capture this balance. It would prevent things from getting to melodramatic like Shadow and Sonic '06, but also keep them from being as "Mario-like" as Colors and Heroes.

Also, as a more specific request, I'd like to see Knuckles get a good role. Poor guy's getting the shaft since Sonic Adventure 1. Chronicles is the only game since that showed him some respect, and it's not even going to be continued. Not saying I want him to be the sole focus or anything, but having him do something more signficant than being sidekick #2 or doing crappy treasure hunting would be nice.

[batson]

I for one dont want the games to be comedies. Complex or simple stories, dark or lighthearted stories, im mostly fine with all of it. But i dont want every cutscene to be filled to the brim with jokes. A certain amount of humor is welcome of course, and some specific characters could very well be used almost solely as comic relief (like Team Chaotix and Marine for instance) but i still dont want the stories to primarily be comedies. The series was never intended for that. The adventure-aspect of it needs to be the main attraction.

Really, when people say that Colors "went back to Sonic's roots" in terms of story they are actually way of the mark. The stories in the Mega Drive games were simple and mostly relatively lighthearted, but that's not the same as trying to be funny.

I like the path Mario has taken in this regard; the story in Mario Galaxy for instance is charming, sweet and simple and also has humor in it, but it doesn't cram endless amounts of jokes into the audience faces like Sonic Colors did.

I feel that a comedy-universe is usually harder to truly "get into" than other fictional universes because the things the characters say in a comedy usually doesn't seem like something anyone would actually say, since they are being forced to tell jokes or do silly things in almost all situations, which means that it gets harder to believe that you are watching beings with minds of their own rather than mere fictional characters who only says what a writer tells them to say...

[K.T.E.]

Also, as a more specific request, I'd like to see Knuckles get a good role. Poor guy's getting the shaft since Sonic Adventure 1. Chronicles is the only game since that showed him some respect, and it's not even going to be continued. Not saying I want him to be the sole focus or anything, but having him do something more signficant than being sidekick #2 or doing crappy treasure hunting would be nice.

Amen to that! Knuckles is totally left out of important conflicts despite being one of the earliest characters

[DarkLight]

Amen to that! Knuckles is totally left out of important conflicts despite being one of the earliest characters

That's probably because he has the Master Emerald to guard and isn't required to be in every game. I also don't see how his Classic status should count for anything.

[RootingForTheEmpire]

The lack of characters doesn't actually matter. He could stare around and talk to himself about it. Praise it, critique it, yet give it a flavor that fits his character. Aside from one or TWO scenes, Sonic was not himself in the pre- (and sometimes post-) boss cutscenes in Colors. The trash-talking moments were way too exaggerated for even a cocky guy like him. That was my biggest problem in many of Colors's cutscenes. Not really for being cringeworthy, but how O.O.C. the lines of "humor" were!

Fair points. It's actually the OOC 'humour' that makes me think Sonic could've done with someone to talk to, rather than gloating and showing off to himself. The scenes with Tails were done well- I only wish there had been more of them. Woulda been a damn site better than the 'clobbering' speech.

May I join you as one of them weirdos? The PA announcements were hilarious, smart, AND in character. Shockingly, Pollack was the one who thought up these lines; and they were much, much better than any of the "lines" and "characterization" from Sonic written by the Happy Tree Friends crew.

But of course. We have T-shirts. I love those announcements more than words can express. All of them funny in their own way and perfectly in-character. As I've previously said, there is nothing like Eggman's calm, level tones as he warns you of the several flavours of death you are likely to encounter at any moment. I just love how he only ever sounds even slightly concerned when what he's announcing could lead to his own demise.

I love you so much, Pollock.

[batson]

I also don't see how his Classic status should count for anything.

Maybe it doesn't, but the fact that he has been considered and promoted as one of the series main characters ever since he first appeared does.

[Dr. Crusher]

I love you so much, Pollock.

Don't we all?

Obviously I'm with you on the so-called "weirdo" team. Sonic's the one with the corny lines, but it didn't get me that much since I was never a fan of rebellious dude-with-'tude heroes anyways. But Robotnik (as usual) got the best lines both in-PA and out-PA. It's the GLaDOS-style sense of humor that seals the deal IMO. I also hope Orbot & Cubot stay, since they give Robotnik someone to talk to.

Anyways, same old deal - something like the Paper Mario series (mostly TTYD) will do nicely. Even then I was hardly bothered at all by the lighthearted nature of Colours - the only thing that got me was Sonic's "amusement park puns = lame" part. Partly because it's hypocritical.

And if I must have to stress this yet again - keep the dark elements subtle. Subtlety is the glorious key to victory (maybe). The Bad Futures in CD and the Nega-Wisp converting machine in Colours were so much more effective to me than Shadow's story and Solaris' history. Of course it would get more serious and perhaps more "blatant" as it gets to the end, but it must still remember that it's a Sonic game. Even at it's darkest, Mario never forgets that it's... well, Mario. Don't make Sonic fit the story - make the story fit Sonic.

Characters... I actually like most of them (key word being "most"), and I certainly don't like all the "solutions" that consist of nothing more than killing off everyone. However you do have to make them join in only when they are needed. The only characters that IMO fit for almost everything are the usual regulars - Sonic, Tails, Robotnik. ...and Orbot & Cubot I suppose. Maybe Amy as well. Otherwise... I'd say it depends on what "themes" or "elements" the story itself has or is based around on. For instance: something about Angel Island or other forms of ancient history? Bring Knuckles to the team (and maybe the other echidna/related characters, such as Chaos, Tikal and Shade for example). More dimension-hopping shinanegans? Blaze and Marine are right over there waiting for you. Mysteries afoot? The Chaotix are on the job. Treasure and money? It's Nack's time to shine. Missions? Don't be surprised to stumble across Rouge. Chao troubles? There'll be Cream. Extra destruction/tyranny/etc by Robotnik? Ey up - Omega's coming... you get the idea.

This is a more personal nitpick, but as with Colours, I'd like them to not overuse the Chaos Emeralds as much. This way the plots can be slightly more varied. Unless it's a case of Super Sonic trying to beat Robotnik's latest and greatest creation only for the latter to pull an Unleashed and suck the Super right out of him (or outright defeat him), forcing normal Sonic to take it on himself with the possible additional help of Tails... then it's fine.

But above all else, among the other holy rules of a Cool Sonic Story Bro such as colourful/unique worlds, a Paper Mario-esque tone, character interaction/development, and Robotnik being the villain from start to finish, there's just one other important detail that absolutely must be maintained throughout the games.

More Johnny.

[RidersDX]

I for one dont want the games to be comedies. Complex or simple stories, dark or lighthearted stories, im mostly fine with all of it. But i dont want every cutscene to be filled to the brim with jokes. A certain amount of humor is welcome of course, and some specific characters could very well be used almost solely as comic relief (like Team Chaotix and Marine for instance) but i still dont want the stories to primarily be comedies. The series was never intended for that. The adventure-aspect of it needs to be the main attraction.

Really, when people say that Colors "went back to Sonic's roots" in terms of story they are actually way of the mark. The stories in the Mega Drive games were simple and mostly relatively lighthearted, but that's not the same as trying to be funny.

I like the path Mario has taken in this regard; the story in Mario Galaxy for instance is charming, sweet and simple and also has humor in it, but it doesn't cram endless amounts of jokes into the audience faces like Sonic Colors did.

I feel that a comedy-universe is usually harder to truly "get into" than other fictional universes because the things the characters say in a comedy usually doesn't seem like something anyone would actually say, since they are being forced to tell jokes or do silly things in almost all situations, which means that it gets harder to believe that you are watching beings with minds of their own rather than mere fictional characters who only says what a writer tells them to say...

This this thissss. Actually, if you all remember, the Sonic series was made largely influenced from Dragon Ball Z, a series that Colors' story is nothing like. Though, I guess people that grew up watching something like AoSTH, which was cancelled very shortly after, it would be natural to think Sonic was supposed to be how he was like in Colors.

Edited February 5, 2011 by RidersDX

[TrueBlue]

This this thissss. Actually, if you all remember, the Sonic series was made largely influenced from Dragon Ball Z, a series that Colors' story is nothing like.

To be honest, I don't think that many of the Sonic stories are inspired of Dragon Ball Z, at least in my opinion. The only sliver of inspiration I can really think of is Sonic 06 with Trunks Silver.

In any case, "inspiration" from another series should not dictate the the content, characterisation or tone of stories present in Sonic games.

Edit: Was written after Riders' edit.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Jaymeister

[RidersDX]

To be honest, I don't think that many of the Sonic stories are inspired of Dragon Ball Z, at least in my opinion. The only sliver of inspiration I can really think of is Sonic 06 with Trunks Silver.

In any case, "inspiration" from another series should not dictate the the content, characterisation or tone of stories present in Sonic games.

Edit: Was written after Riders' edit.

There's this article on Dragon Ball Z influences on Sonic. I'mma like it here.

So technically, Dragon Ball Z has inspired almost every story in the Sonic games, since we all know just how often those chaos emeralds are used. I'm not saying the Sonic series should be serious and action packed cause of those influences, I'm just saying maybe that's what they thought the series was meant to be, instead of Colors' comedy filled story. I think if the classic games were to have cutscenes, they'd be very action packed with drama, but they'd have comedy too, certainly not the level of Colors. And if I'm wrong, it for some reason basically evolved into that by the Adventure series.

But really, I don't think people should say that the stories back then would be just as "funny" as Colors' story is, we really don't have a clue what Sonic's stories back then would've been like with cutscenes. (I'd say Sonic 3 & Knuckles is pretty action packed though with the small story it has). Yeah, you could go to AoSTH, but there was also SatAM, which I remember was pretty serious. And since AoSTH was cancelled very shortly after, I don't think there's a clear image on what the stories back then would've been like with cutscenes.

[Chaos Rush]

I'd prefer a story like Sonic Adventure 2, but properly translated this time. My first Sonic game was Adventure, so I was introduced to the Sonic series as something not exactly "bright and happy" like Mario and Sonic Colors. I was quite taken aback with Unleashed's tone, and I cringed in disbelief at seeing the cutscene when Chip buys an ice cream. I thought that was taking it too far, but Sonic Colors takes it to a whole new level where I cringed at EVERY SINGLE CUTSCENE except ones without Sonic it. Meaning the only cutscene I didn't cringe was Eggman + Orbot + Cubot because I didn't hear something that made me want to puke.

"Did someone order a clobbering?"

"You missed the BBBE!"

"This park is huge" (naaaaaaw, really? An amusement park made up of five planets is huge?)

"No one said we'll do any math"

"Eggman! I AM going to save this planet! And I AM going to blah blah blah copyright law" (Dear Sonic: SHUT THE FUCK UP!!!! YOU'RE NOT FUNNY!)

And I don't see how people are saying that Colors story takes it back to its roots. Sonic is a DORK in Colors. In Sonic 1, 2, 3&K, and CD, he's a badass. And Sonic 3 & Knuckles has a deeper story than Sonic Colors, too. Inn Sonic 3 & Knuckles, we see Eggman's robots burn up the first zone, we see Knuckles screw Sonic & Tails over multiple times, we see Eggman steal the Master Emerald and ELECTROCUTE KNUCKLES (Electrocution = far more epic than ZOMG BRAINWASHLOL), plus we actually see the Death Egg rise to the clouds while we're actually playing the Sky Sanctuary level.

But then in Colors, hardly anything happens in the Colors cutscenes, all that pretty much happens is we see Sonic confront a boss, and then make a lame joke. Oh and Eggman brainwashes Tails. That was actually a good idea, but seeing Eggman electrocute Knuckles is far more impacting.

So basically, I hope to never see a Sonic game filled with horrible, lame, corny, un-funny, groan-inducing jokes every again. IMO, Sonic should be portrayed like a badass, like he is in the classic games, the Sonic CD intro, and the Sonic Next Gen 2005 trailer. What I don't want to see is Sonic acting like a complete dork, like he does for the entirety of Sonic Colors, which was ridiculous (and I thought Unleashed was taking it too far...) Also a deeper plot would be nice, too.

[Darth Sonikku]

I think the next sonic game should have a plot that is lighthearted, but takes itself seriously when the need arises.

Here's an example:

Let's say Sonic is running through a lush forest area. He's destroying Eggman's robots, jumping from platform to platform, etc. Sonic is just doing his thing. However during Sonic's little romp, Amy is fighting a bunch of robots. One of them electrocutes her while her back is turned and she slowly falls unconscious. Sonic saw some sparks flying and rushed toward the area. He sees Eggman's robots carrying her away. Before he can do anything, the robots that Sonic didn't destroy during his run through the forest earlier start burning the forest.

Sonic has to decide whether to save Amy first and let the forest burn, or save the forest first and lose any chance of finding her quickly. These kind of choices bring tension to the story. And it also makes you choose what you want to do. Sonic can have a lighthearted story, but a few serious elements from time to time would be nice.

[Core]

But apparently I'm the weirdo for preferring Eggman's PA announcements to Sonic's cheesy lines.

Weirdo? I thought everyone loved Eggman's PA lines, while only half of the fans liked Sonic's jokes.

[Marcello]

Like a mix out of Black Knight and Adventure. BK for the personality of Sonic with his wise cracks and the atmosphere, but Adventure for the 6 different stories of different people leading to one at the end.

[RootingForTheEmpire]

Weirdo? I thought everyone loved Eggman's PA lines, while only half of the fans liked Sonic's jokes.

I thought so too, but I've seen much more love for Sonic's 'attitude' in that game than what I believed to be the ACTUAL humorous parts of the game. I'm probably wrong about this, though- I can't say I've heard the opinion of every fan by a long shot.

I'll also take this time to jump on the 'no more 'comedic', gloatful cutscene-ey bullshit from Sonic' bandwagon. Colours really went overboard with the 'humour' in that respect. I think the shining star of cringe for me was the 'amusement park puns are lame' line from Sonic. No, Sonic. Amusement park puns are great. Going on and on about how you're going to clobber the next boss is not.

[Scar]

Well, for writers who've had no previous experience in characterising Sonic, they did a pretty decent job.

Needs improvement, though I guess that'll come eventually.

[Candescence]

Just popping in to make a note here: Colours, while it's nothing like DBZ as previously mentioned, it's actually more like Dragon Ball. As in, the original, which was a comedy with fight scenes. Akira Toriyama is basically a comedian who knows how to make damn good fights (come on, he made a manga series parodying his own franchise). Hell, DBZ still has its funny moments, despite being more serious in general.

Edited February 5, 2011 by Masaru Daimon