Street Fighter Cross Tekken AND Tekken Cross Street Fighter

[Edward]

You know what hurt me the most? I bought the Marvel vs Capcom Special Edition. It was a painful experience for me, I spent £60, only to find that I bought the inferior special edition. I had to sell it to get the standard ultimate edition.

Street Fighter X Tekken has a special edition as well, but I have learnt my lesson. In fact I've learnt so much that I've decided to hold back on this game until the next version of it comes out. Or until the price goes down.

This game is the boss however. I played it in my friend's house and I can't wait to get my hands on it myself. I just found out one of my 2nd favourite Tekken fighter is a DLC character.

[Carbo]

EDIT: And what about the people who bought the Special Editions of MvC3?

They get their T-shirts (Capcom Unity exclusive), steelbook cases, graphic novel, DLC characters that transfer into UMvC3, Marvel Comics subscriptions and transit loops, for a couple extra bucks.

Fun fact: people who bought the special edition from Capcom-Unity's shit store were given coupons for free shipping and deducted prices.

It's funny that you are just thinking of "DLC" characters, when that's not all they added in to UMvC3. Eight new stages and an improved online mode you forgot as well. It's wasn't just a money saver, but it's also a slap in a face to MvC3 owners who can't have these sweet upgrades unless they buy the ultimate version.

The fighting game community that carried that particular franchise for 10 long years would say otherwise. DLC heavily cripples tourneys and the community when some organizers don't even acquire the extras.

For that matter I'm not entirely sure why MvC3 is having parallels drawn between SFxT because this is completely different. UMvC3 wouldn't have been better off as DLC exclusive. It's an extra package made after fiscal deadlines and packaging it as full retail with improvements as per fan feedback is more efficient and beneficial when you consider a DLC plan is not only more costly but less accessible altogether. The only downside you have by acquiring this package is that you need more space on your shelf.

The only characters that Capcom locked away in MvC3 were Jill and Shuma-Gorath. Everything else that was added into UMvC3 is new content and improvements made from fan-feedback that wouldn't have been acquired if people didn't actually buy the original version. Are there better ways to go by adding things to the games? Sure. But it's silly to assume that choices aren't thought through and that there aren't some benefits to be reaped for both parties.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

The fighting game community that carried that particular franchise for 10 long years would say otherwise. DLC heavily cripples tourneys and the community when some organizers don't even acquire the extras.

For that matter I'm not entirely sure why MvC3 is having parallels drawn between SFxT because this is completely different. UMvC3 wouldn't have been better off as DLC exclusive. It's an extra package made after fiscal deadlines and packaging it as full retail with improvements as per fan feedback is more efficient and beneficial when you consider a DLC plan is not only more costly but less accessible altogether. The only downside you have by acquiring this package is that you need more space on your shelf.

[Carbo]

The parallels are drawn between the two because in Capcom's recent history, their fighting games release a SUPER edition. You just know they will release some SUPER edition of this game.

As far as I'm concerned the original line of discussion was locked DLC on-disc.

But does that exempt the original packaging from it's quality or the fact that Super versions are only made because the people who support the original game bring fan-feedback to the table? It's funny - if you'd go by releasing an expansion as a DLC exclusive, while people claim this wouldn't serve as slapping people in the face for buying the original product, it works as an inverse, slapping new customers in the face who knowingly buy an obsolete product, only to have to pay extra on an online marketplace.

This is really why Ono and Capcom got it right with Arcade Edition by releasing two different versions that was only possible thanks to the new infrastructure that Super could provide, something which I'm admittedly fine with attesting that MvC3 should have done, and something I hope SFxT will do in any case (expanded editions of crossover titles are by rule-of-thumb something that never really occurs due to contracts, with MvC3 being the exception). But considering how Shadow Battles, Costumes and DLC Characters spectacularly bombed for the former, I can't say I'm very surprised.

But...that's what game updates are for. If you want to fix or improve gameplay you can patch it up. In fact, the original was suppose to get these updates. But, I can see why they didn't now because they spent their time on these upgrades and need something in return. But yeah, there are better ways of doing that instead of asking the original owners to get the game again. I don't want this idea being passed on to other developers just like the online passes and the DRM craze.

As per recent publisher developments reveal, it costs roughly $40,000 per patch to release more patches after the first one, and Capcom doesn't profit from the results. Considering they're ironically one of the companies who had such an abysmally terrible financial year in 2009 that they had to spend the next two years making up for it, it doesn't strike me as a surprise that they catered it safe to the only base that they've actually profited from during these past few years.

To be honest I can't think of any risky title Capcom decided to undertake in the past few years apart from Asura's Wrath; a title so incredibly fringe and niche that I honestly can't help but somewhat respect them for.

[LunarEdge]

Carbo, you are the best. You said what I was going to say, but better.

[Jetronic]

http://www.cinemable...lves-40619.html

Was this talked about yet?

Edit: Basically capcom wants everyone whose using the DLC (Disc locked content) to be banned.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Jetronic

[Carbo]

Assuming they are hacks then Capcom are damn well in their right to ban the shit out of people, but I'm iffy about the methods that both Capcom and the userbase are taking to themselves when dealing with and approaching the scenario. Most people certainly wouldn't find it in their minds to snitch.

I will say though that the latter are certainly not gaining any points by acting like spoiled shitheads in comment sections and acting like they deserve extra treatment. I may be considered a Devil's Advocate whenever discussions about Capcom and fighting games are raised, but shit like this makes me genuinely embarrassed and I honestly don't regret not being on the other side of the argument.

[Marcello]

So, what, people are getting mad at Capcom for rightfully banning people hacking the game?

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

So, what, people are getting mad at Capcom for rightfully banning people hacking the game?

Stupid I know. Even though Capcom made a crappy move with this, people shouldn't hack this game and play online with these characters. It's unfair for the ones that don't have access to these characters. There are some boundaries, and this one crosses the line. Capcom/Microsoft should ban them.

[Sami]

All this arguing about whether or not Capcom re-releases are justified has gotten me thinking: How would people have reacted if rather than creating Sonic Unleashed, SEGA released Sonic 06: Done Edition?

Don't release a game as a finished product until it's a finished fucking product. Want to add more characters and levels like they did with UMvC3? Add even more characters and levels, work on it for longer, and release a fucking sequel. When I like a video game or movie, I ask for a sequel; not an improved version of the original that renders my purchase completely worthless before it's even a year old.

Regardless, I decided ages ago that I refuse to give Crapcom another cent of my money, so I'm really not all that bothered with this particular incident. It's just more reason for me to loathe a shitty company.

[Carbo]

All this arguing about whether or not Capcom re-releases are justified has gotten me thinking: How would people have reacted if rather than creating Sonic Unleashed, SEGA released Sonic 06: Done Edition?

Don't release a game as a finished product until it's a finished fucking product. Want to add more characters and levels like they did with UMvC3? Add even more characters and levels, work on it for longer, and release a fucking sequel. When I like a video game or movie, I ask for a sequel; not an improved version of the original that renders my purchase completely worthless before it's even a year old.

That's a pretty stupid comparison.

Sonic 06 and MvC3 are barely even comparable for two reasons; the first being that the reason Sonic 06 was rushed out was because they wanted to meet holiday demands and get more money.

The second reason is that MvC3 was rushed out because it had to be released before Capcom's fiscal year ended, and for them it's a critical moment where results were needed. This was a game that was in development for a good two or so years, and the only things left on the cutting room floor was two DLC characters and one character that was thrown into Ultimate when certain limitations imposed didn't allow for them to finish it at all. Also, that said character was removed many months before the deadline was even looming over them.

MvC3 wasn't an unfinished product. Was it marred with glitches, terrible game play, atrocious engine and bad design? No. Not at all. It was a barebones product. As hard as it is to believe, yes, some games despite hard development, don't get much content. That doesn't mean it would have been much better if left a couple of more months in development or that it's unfinished, especially when fighting games are a genre that need to evolve to meet an incredibly growing and dedicated scene that is never perfected.

Also, extending deadlines is pretty fucking expensive. At some point you have to ship your product, and there will always be some content left out that, yes, nowadays can be offered through DLC.

[Shaddix Leto Croft]

Not a big fan of getting the game it does seem like Capcom is not learning from past releases like Street Fighter IV & MVC3.... I'll be waiting for Tekken x Street Fighter anyway I prefer Tekken gameplay much more than Street Fighter gameplay

[Rawpowered]

Don't release a game as a finished product until it's a finished fucking product. Want to add more characters and levels like they did with UMvC3? Add even more characters and levels, work on it for longer, and release a fucking sequel.

You know Capcom didn't initially want to release UMvC3 right? The characters in that were planned for DLC for MvC3 however due to the earthquakes in Japan that year it disrupted the development schedule for it.

I agree that what is on disc should be available to all without paying. But can't you say it offers enough already? Street Fighter X Tekken has plenty of character combinations so many layers to it and plenty of multiplayer options that if anything doesn't need anything else. A few characters on the side shouldn't drive you away, they're optional , they're not forcing anyone to buy them, that's your choice. Though saying that they are making it so the character pack contains all of the on disc characters and you can't buy them separately, which I'm not bothered on Blanka and Sakura.

You know what, I'm just going to stop here. I've just realised how hard it is to defend Capcom, as much as I want to.

[Kuzu]

All this moaning and groaning over Capcom is saddening really. No one is telling you guys to buy their products, you guys are doing it of your own accord, yet Capcom is somehow in the wrong for expanding on a game they couldn't originally? I fail to follow that logic.Yeah they've made questionable business decisions but everyone seems to think they have some sort of entitlement when it comes to these games and it really makes people come off as childish.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

That's a pretty stupid comparison.

Sonic 06 and MvC3 are barely even comparable for two reasons; the first being that the reason Sonic 06 was rushed out was because they wanted to meet holiday demands and get more money.

The second reason is that MvC3 was rushed out because it had to be released before Capcom's fiscal year ended, and for them it's a critical moment where results were needed. This was a game that was in development for a good two or so years, and the only things left on the cutting room floor was two DLC characters and one character that was thrown into Ultimate when certain limitations imposed didn't allow for them to finish it at all. Also, that said character was removed many months before the deadline was even looming over them.

MvC3 wasn't an unfinished product. Was it marred with glitches, terrible game play, atrocious engine and bad design? No. Not at all. It was a barebones product. As hard as it is to believe, yes, some games despite hard development, don't get much content. That doesn't mean it would have been much better if left a couple of more months in development or that it's unfinished, especially when fighting games are a genre that need to evolve to meet an incredibly growing and dedicated scene that is never perfected.

Also, extending deadlines is pretty fucking expensive. At some point you have to ship your product, and there will always be some content left out that, yes, nowadays can be offered through DLC.

What bothers me, is instead of re-releasing the same game, why not make an effort to create a sequel? As you said, MvC3 wasn't an unfinished product, it's very solid with no terrible gameplay etc, so why can't they say "Hey, let's make a sequel" instead of being lazy and re-release the same game with little bonuses? The community can wait and they will be more proud with a sequel than a re-release.

Soulcalibur 4 to Soulcalibur 5 is an example of what Capcom should be doing, not this.

[Carbo]

What bothers me, is instead of re-releasing the same game, why not make an effort to create a sequel? As you said, MvC3 wasn't an unfinished product, it's very solid with no terrible gameplay etc, so why can't they say "Hey, let's make a sequel" instead of being lazy and re-release the same game with little bonuses? The community can wait and they will be more proud with a sequel than a re-release.

Soulcalibur 4 to Soulcalibur 5 is an example of what Capcom should be doing, not this.

Remember how I said it was a rule-of-thumb that crossovers never get updated re-releases?

Niitsuma made it crystal clear that the contract that they had signed with Marvel was a one-off deal, and that it was a contract for one game exclusively. This was why they built the game with an infrastructure that would assist a DLC plan, one that they've put in motion for UMvC3 with downloadable costumes and the like, but not with any new characters insofar, since due to the stern control that has to be applied to Marvel's intellectual property of all things, making the actual game is the least of their problems. For Marvel, it is merely an outlet to publicize current relevant media, and as far as that goes, UMvC3 would be nothing but the exception to the rule since Marvel in general were overall pleased with the outcome, and an MvC4 will probably not see the light, if at all, until another additional 8 years or so.

Insofar, MvC3 is the only game within the crossover series to actually have an updated re-release due to incredibly bad circumstances, and it's rather doubtful that an affair like that will ever happen again without additional options to market it.

Oh yeah and as for every other fighting franchise by Capcom, insert every other post I made here about communities and keeping it alive, mechanics and etc etc. Shit ton of purists nowadays still abhor Street Fighter IV in comparison to Street Fighter III. Usually a sequel is an evolution of mechanics, and those are not always taken lightly.

And while other big name franchises don't do that, with the exception of ArcSys and BlazBlue/Guilty Gear, it doesn't really come as much of a surprise that Capcom is still the dominant force within tourneys and gatherings with the most relevant games.

[Sami]

Also, extending deadlines is pretty fucking expensive. At some point you have to ship your product, and there will always be some content left out that, yes, nowadays can be offered through DLC.

Then don't do it. Ship the product, actually create new content that isn't on the disc to support it post launch, and leave the new game modes and mechanics to a sequel. Again, rendering a product utterly worthless before it's even a year old is unbelievable and won't be tolerated by me.

You know Capcom didn't initially want to release UMvC3 right? The characters in that were planned for DLC for MvC3 however due to the earthquakes in Japan that year it disrupted the development schedule for it.

I agree that what is on disc should be available to all without paying. But can't you say it offers enough already? Street Fighter X Tekken has plenty of character combinations so many layers to it and plenty of multiplayer options that if anything doesn't need anything else. A few characters on the side shouldn't drive you away, they're optional , they're not forcing anyone to buy them, that's your choice. Though saying that they are making it so the character pack contains all of the on disc characters and you can't buy them separately, which I'm not bothered on Blanka and Sakura.

You know what, I'm just going to stop here. I've just realised how hard it is to defend Capcom, as much as I want to.

I don't care. If I spend $60 of my hard-earned money on a physical disc; everything on that physical disc is my rightful property. I refuse to pay for something I already own; especially months after I initially bought it.

This isn't DLC, it's robbery.

[Chooch]

Was [Marvel vs. Capcom 3] marred with glitches, terrible game play, atrocious engine and bad design?

..It kind of was.

[Solly]

I don't care. If I spend $60 of my hard-earned money on a physical disc; everything on that physical disc is my rightful property. I refuse to pay for something I already own; especially months after I initially bought it.

This isn't DLC, it's robbery.

Can't say I'm with this.

I think what Capcom's doing is really stupid and scummy, and I'm completely against having to pay to unlock what is essentially the rest of the game, but I don't think we have the right to use the locked content. We don't make the rules here, and we don't have the right to do anything.

It's okay if Capcom bans people. I wouldn't report them, because frankly I like seeing footage of the game, but Capcom SHOULD ban hackers.

[Carbo]

..It kind of was.

Last I checked it was merely disdain in it's foundation, not execution. It was still a popular, solid game with a powerful base that lead it into UMvC3 nicely, and I wouldn't say that was grounds for it to be considered an unfinished game.

Actually come to think of it, fighting games never really are finished. I've been arguing against nothing all along. Shit.

[Ming Ming Hatsune]

Remember how I said it was a rule-of-thumb that crossovers never get updated re-releases?

Niitsuma made it crystal clear that the contract that they had signed with Marvel was a one-off deal, and that it was a contract for one game exclusively.

This isn't Marvel vs. Capcom 1, this is Marvel vs. Capcom 3. This crossover is not a one-off deal, if this is the third sequel to the Marvel vs. Capcom series. Maybe that this contract they signed is only for MvC3, but what's stopping them from asking Marvel again to use their characters for MvC4? I'm very sure Marvel doesn't have a problem with this since they are also getting some money.

This was why they built the game with an infrastructure that would assist a DLC plan, one that they've put in motion for UMvC3 with downloadable costumes and the like, but not with any new characters insofar, since due to the stern control that has to be applied to Marvel's intellectual property of all things, making the actual game is the least of their problems. For Marvel, it is merely an outlet to publicize current relevant media, and as far as that goes, UMvC3 would be nothing but the exception to the rule since Marvel in general were overall pleased with the outcome, and an MvC4 will probably not see the light, if at all, until another additional 8 years or so.

Why won't it see the light for another 8 years? If Capcom really wants to make a sequel to the game, they have the team to do so. They can stop making a Super edition of SFxT and focus on MvC4.

I hate the way that they are using the original as a prototype version. The Tales Community wasn't happy with Namco when they did this as well. This sets a poor example to other developers, and the world will end if we see SUPER editions from Ubisoft, EA, Namco and maybe Sega games.

Not only that, but it looks like they are looking for a quick buck too with these SUPER editions.

Insofar, MvC3 is the only game within the crossover series to actually have an updated re-release due to incredibly bad circumstances, and it's rather doubtful that an affair like that will ever happen again without additional options to market it.

Yes it's the only game so far. But I'm bet you with all my money that SFxT will get a re-release. It's coming. The reason why they denied it is because they don't want people to wait for the SUPER edition of it and ignore the original.

[Chooch]

Last I checked it was merely disdain in it's foundation, not execution. It was still a popular, solid game with a powerful base that lead it into UMvC3 nicely, and I wouldn't say that was grounds for it to be considered an unfinished game.

Actually come to think of it, fighting games never really are finished. I've been arguing against nothing all along. Shit.

DHC glitch was fucking stupid as hell, infinites abound, even more thanks to X-Factor (X-Factor being a huge problem in and of itself), the rock-paper-scissors guessing game nonsense that is the Team Aerial combo system... Come on now. Even as someone who likes the game I can pretty safely say it had a lot of stupid bullshit.

I had to pay another $40 for spectator mode for crying out loud.

Edited March 20, 2012 by Chooch

[Carbo]

This isn't Marvel vs. Capcom 1, this is Marvel vs. Capcom 3. This crossover is not a one-off deal, if this is the third sequel to the Marvel vs. Capcom series. Maybe that this contract they signed is only for MvC3, but what's stopping them from asking Marvel again to use their characters for MvC4? I'm very sure Marvel doesn't have a problem with this since they are also getting some money.

Because Marvel now is vastly different from Marvel then, not only acting as a subsidiary for Disney nowadays, but also being more interested in using their crossover as a vehicle to promote relevant comic material. This was why fan-favorites such as Venom were completely absent, because Marvel holds no interest in anything the gamers want. They're only interested in their own property, and should a sequel arise, it would be merely to promote more of their new relevant material. Having a sequel at this point would essentially mean rehashing their own characters while Capcom mine for excuses not to throw in Mega Man.

In a scene where fighting games was a dying breed and only a niche crowd would hold onto it's life until Street Fighter IV came out, there was no rhyme or reason for Marvel to ever get into another deal with Capcom. It took 10 years for a sequel to see light of the day, and by then, they had a plethora of new relevant characters to throw into the mix.

Why won't it see the light for another 8 years? If Capcom really wants to make a sequel to the game, they have the team to do so. They can stop making a Super edition of SFxT and focus on MvC4.

MvC3 Team =/= SFxT Team. The former is helmed by the production team working on Tatsunoko vs. Capcom which was led by Niitsuma, while the latter is Ono and his crew that worked on Street Fighter IV.

I hate the way that they are using the original as a prototype version. The Tales Community wasn't happy with Namco when they did this as well. This sets a poor example to other developers, and the world will end if we see SUPER editions from Ubisoft, EA, Namco and maybe Sega games.

I wasn't even arguing about other developers and other genres here but whatever.

Yes it's the only game so far. But I'm bet you with all my money that SFxT will get a re-release. It's coming. The reason why they denied it is because they don't want people to wait for the SUPER edition of it and ignore the original.

And I'll be happy to admit that I'm wrong when that happens, but that still won't change the fact that the only reason a Super version exists is because it caters to a community who thrives off of updates to their beloved formulas and are more interested in such as opposed to precious sequelitis.

DHC glitch was fucking stupid as hell, infinites abound, even more thanks to X-Factor (X-Factor being a huge problem in and of itself), the rock-paper-scissors guessing game nonsense that is the Team Aerial combo system... Come on now. Even as someone who likes the game I can pretty safely say it had a lot of stupid bullshit.

I had to pay another $40 for spectator mode for crying out loud.

Now I never said it didn't have stupid bullshit. I just said that it was a solid, well-founded game.

[Phos]

It's not so much the money that bothers me, the reasons for there being so many characters locked on disk has to do with the desire for this to be the only disc release of the gamed that they need. Note that this still means you have to pay for it. What's more bothersome is the videogames as a service model that this seems to lean towards when fighting games aren't very well suited to it.

Plus I think that Gems are dumb. The concept goes against a lot of what makes really high level play work how it does, and individual people already make charters their own with their own styles. Capcom seems to have forgotten that among MvC3's maximum damage combos that you need to do to compete.

[Rawpowered]

How about we actually talk about the game?

My current favourites to use are:

Yoshimitsu: I never expected to use him. But after playing around in trial mode Yoshimitsu's attacks and fighting style are fantastic in this game. Sure he's slow and not very powerful, but he is absolutely excellent for set ups. Plus his Super Art is deadly in Scramble Mode, have your friend stall them for a bit and executing the move draws them in anyway, so if you need to cancel it you'll be safe. Admittedly though in normal fights with a co-op partner I'm more setting up combos for my friend that making my own, but it's nice to be second banana sometimes.

Hugo: I love Hugo, my favourite from 3rd Strike just because how silly he is. Plus his attack strength in this is massive. Assigning Attack gems make him godlike. Speaking of which,

Ogre: I strangely like using him. His moveset is a bit odd but after practice he can pull off some crazy good stuff.

Jin: A very fun character to use. All his moves are so effective in battle it hard not to enjoy playing as him. Though saying that his English voice is so damn bad it's hilarious, especially when he's performing his Super Art where he goes into sudden puberty.

I like the entire roster but if there's one character I simply can not enjoy playing as is;

King: I love King. He's my favourite character in the entire Tekken series. His moves felt so brutal and unique and overall he's such a lovable character. But in this game I can't stand playing as him at all. The majority of his moveset is situational (one move require the opponent to be in midair and another needed to be crouching). In a game this this everybody is on the move and King doesn't have anything to counter nor punish the enemy to a great deal of damage. Overall I just feel let down that my favourite Tekken character is my least favourite character in the roster.