Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Your Vest Friend]

Hey, I think some of you are accusing Ian of maliciousness he didn't commit. I could totally believe that Ian did think he still had use of Shard for him directly being a Metal Sonic/Mecha Sonic until the lawyers just disclosed he was not when he brought his ideas forward for checking. I mean, same thing happened for Scourge and that one has proof; while the purely Penders stuff had already been cut out due to the court case, this cover came up in the meantime;

Rafa Knight didn't come on board until after the reboot, so even if she was commissioned to do this early on, Archie (not even just Ian since he doesn't control covers for reprints) had belief of them being able to use Scourge. Then they were told not to use him and the assets got stripped and reused as pin-ups for Best of Sonic: The Ultimate Collection (except the Scourge render because of the no new material thing). You guys have to remember that Ian is pretty low on the totem pole in terms of executive control. He's not involved in the decision making regarding legalities, so he probably didn't know they were out of the question until recently, one more than the other.

[Salamander]

For what it's worth, I think it's very likely that Ian Flynn didn't know the status of some of these characters until recently; the lawyers would've been busy going through the old material and coming to a decision.  I also don't think it's terribly good publicity for Archie to put out an official list of characters they can't use - although I suspect it's not so much that they can't use them as that it's ambiguous as to where their ownership lies, which amounts to the same thing; they can't risk it.

 

It's frustrating to see the incredible inconsistency between Archie's behaviour and Penders's behaviour, where Archie has to tiptoe around anything even vaguely connected to Penders's ideas, while Penders freely steals Sega characters and designs.  The difference is that Archie is making plenty of money off this, whereas Penders isn't.  Penders has nothing to lose, on top of being a moron, so he can do whatever he likes.  If it comes down to him actually trying to get TLSC sold in stores, I suspect it would be a different matter, but until then nobody can lay a finger on Penders.  I suspect that the real truth to the ownership dispute is that both Penders and Archie/Sega would have to agree in order for any of these characters to see print again - and that's just not going to happen.  But that hurts Archie more than Penders.

 

I don't think expies were ever going to cut it, though.  If you try and reintroduce a lost character under another name or concept, then it's pretty clear that you're simply trying to use the original character.  This is why we give Penders such flak for "the Praetorian."  But for the same reason, we can't have an evil Sonic from a mirror universe, or a former Metal Sonic turned good, or various assorted family members, as I understand it.  If Penders used the concept first, can it be used again without a suspicion that you're trying to appropriate his material?

[Your Vest Friend]

We know that there are some concepts so generic that they can be used, like family members. Yeah, Alicia's gone and Sally has no mother in sight (probably to give emphasis on the bond between Sally and King Acorn), and Antoine's parents are both dead (looks like they died in battle), but Rotor still has a father like in the old continuity. A dick of a father, but still. I think if family perished, it was because either Penders made the character directly (Bernie, Jules, Locke, Lara Le, King and Queen Bee), they were from other writers (Rosemary and Amadeus) or they simply got snared by the family mandate (Vector's adopted dad and the Bride of Constant Vigil*. I'm pretty sure the former's gone because Rotor's new backstory has like 90% of the beats from Vector's old backstory). Can't say if Mighty's parents still exist or not.

 

On top of that, there are some parody ideas considered so generic that he can't claim it. Penders could claim characters borne of parody like Rob 'O, but he can't claim the Robin Hood parody as a whole, so Bow and his gang are still around (as is Mordred, but he's more Arthurian reference).

 

*...Wow, only just noticed how skewed the attention really was. No family at all for anyone off team Rose, Dark or Hooligan aside from Rob 'O being Amy cousins in a way which wasn't really used past 160 except tiny allusions near the reboot.

[goku262002]

Hey, I think some of you are accusing Ian of maliciousness he didn't commit. I could totally believe that Ian did think he still had use of Shard for him directly being a Metal Sonic/Mecha Sonic until the lawyers just disclosed he was not when he brought his ideas forward for checking.

Hes had since #252 to check into this and always giving the assumption that he could possibly come back because he never did the fact-checking.

If he just said "Don't count on it" for everything that was lost in the reboot then I wouldn't be that upset, but its the fact that we were jerked around for a year+ with maybes, even on the damned livestreams just ticks me off. hes got to learn to keep people in the dark until he knows hes 100.1% sure he can use said asset or not. not like it matters anyways, Shard was the last piece of the old universe anybody cared about coming back.

How did his forum take it? I'm sure pretty bad.

[Your Vest Friend]

Ian's a busy man. On top of sorting out the reboot, he's had Mega Man to deal with, another crossover to write and a real life move to Canada. Plus other misc. factors like events to attend (he can only do two this year which shows his workload). He still isn't sure if Eggman Nega's ban has been lifted because he hasn't had the chance to check in a good while. And what's not to say that the lawyers themselves didn't do the mind-changing? They didn't put a blanket ban on everything that wasn't from the games or cartoon (Nicole's design being based off the Tania one, Mordred, Bow and Akhlut still being around) so it could easily have been a decision they decided on later than others (especially considering that only Penders stuff got removed first, then branched out into non-Flynn characters). 

 

And...uh, Bumbleking doesn't know yet, at least not on the forums. Some might have picked it up off here or Tumblr.

[goku262002]

Still hes working on the script, ideas of what characters he could and couldn't use must've been on the forefront of his mind and I'm sure it doesn't take long to shoot out an email to somebody about the status of what he can and can't use. I'm going to stand by my point: if he isn't sure just say no don't go with the maybes or I don't knows, because it just leads to hope when there shouldn't be to begin with.

Just link the page when Bumbleking does find out, thats not gonna be too pretty to see but I'm sure he will go into more detail as to why we had a year long jerkaround.

BTW, I don't blame Shard being gone on him just to make that clear, my hate for Penders has grown 10 fold now. I just hate that I was jerked around thats all.

[Your Vest Friend]

Well hey, we got some answers back from another Q&A, with questions that were asked three months ago. He was busy with that too.

 

To provide a little snippet...he can't use Tiara and Gazebo. Oh.

 

And confirmations that Generations PS360 did happen. It's just that going to Spagonia was going forward in time (technically Crisis City was as well so it's not unprecedented).

[Big Panda]

I took the time to write this all up so; here are some of the more juicy tidbits:

-More villains independent of the Eggman Empire will be introduced "slowly but surely".

-Relic and Eclipse didn't exist in the old reality. For some reason.

-The reason for the continuity confusion in Pirate Plunder Panic was, as many speculated, because of the Super Genesis Wave making everything fuzzy.

-The events of Sonic Generations played out the same even without Unleashed having happened: Sonic simply travels forward in time to Spagonia rather than back.

-Ian would jump at the chance to write for the Sonic Boom TV series.

-Sonic Boom was planned to be in Worlds Unite from the beginning.

-Ian doesn't plan on importing many of the AoStH cast.

-The Super Genesis Wave literally destroyed Sonic's multiverse. Sol Zone is an exception because the power of the Jewelled Sceptre protected it.

-Relic is older than Knuckles (16 or over)

-Unless the higher-ups decide otherwise, Ian considers Knuckles Chaotix canon.

-There are three known currency's being used on Sonic's world: the Kingdom of Acorn use Mobiums, the United Federation and various other nations use dollars, and the Eggman Empire has EggBucks, but nobody uses them.

-The decision to do Worlds Unite didn't shake up Ian's plans as badly as Worlds Collide did: the titles will reach a nice breaking off point when the crossover starts, and they'll be primed to launch into their next big arcs too.

-Tiara and Gazebo are off-limits (Ian sounded particularly frustrated over this...)

-Rosie is still alive and well in the present day.

-The comic will be exploring the multiverse again, just not in the same way as the old continuity. Worlds Unite will be touching on it.

-Sonic 06 happened (but retconned itself). Games Ian doesn't consider canon at all include the Sonic Drift games, Sonic R and Sonic's Schoolhouse (though what did you expect ;P)

-We'll be seeing lots of Silver very soon. Not all of it written by Ian.

-Ian would like to delve into the backstory of the Hooligans, and he's allowed to do so too, so that's a plus.

-Ian plans to bring back the Battle Bird Armada.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I took the time to write this all up so; here are some of the more juicy tidbits:

-Ian would like to delve into the backstory of the Hooligans, and he's allowed to do so too, so that's a plus.

-Ian plans to bring back the Battle Bird Armada.

 Hunh, if he can go into their backstory, wonder if he can touch on Mighty and Ray's

[Eitarou]

#23 Sonic really likes chilly dogs, what are some of the other characters favorite foods?

And Big obviously enjoys fish.

AS WELL AS YOUR MORTAL SOUL

I knew there was something off about that cat.

[Your Vest Friend]

The Knuckles Chaotix one is interesting actually. For the other game titles, he just puts them as is. For that one, it's "Knuckles Chaotix", with the quotation marks. Sounds like my second option for it, it happened but not as we know it from the game.

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

The Knuckles Chaotix one is interesting actually. For the other game titles, he just puts them as is. For that one, it's "Knuckles Chaotix", with the quotation marks. Sounds like my second option for it, it happened but not as we know it from the game.

 

Probably with more depth and explanation, since he said that Mighty(and Ray) had a history with the Chaotix, and there is no reason that adventure wouldn't be part of it(heck, could be an origin story for the group), but hey, perhaps he'll revisit it down the trail

[Arcade Racer CC14]

-Ian plans to bring back the Battle Bird Armada.

YESSSSSSS, BRING ON THE BATTLE LORD!

Also cool that Ian can actually give the Hooligans original backstory. I'd love to see what he can come up with.

[Your Vest Friend]

I don't see why he wouldn't have been able to given that the scrapees aren't under the same jurisdiction as the active game cast.

[Drawloverlala]

ohh...i would like to see a Tails' sky patrol adaptation.. too bad i didn't asked something about it before ..but i understand if its not possible

 

heheh its good to know the Battle bird armada is going to appear again..

 

about the Hoolingans backstory... what about the Sonic heroes' flashbacks that are actually happening on the comics?

maybe their first met its on those flashbacks... who knows?

Edited March 22, 2015 by Drawloverlala

[Kuzu]

Its probably how they got together.

[Zaysho]

I am happy to hear that, provided there's no foul up along the way, the Battle Birds will be making a comeback. Loved them in the old 'verse (and it took FOREVER to get them in there!), and it'll be interesting to see how they're developed and if they're still allowed to have that loose connection to the Babylon Rogues (I'm waiting for these guys to return, too).

 

Likewise interested on the whole Chaotix thing. I assume it did happen if Isolated Island is in the comics, and obviously SEGA didn't bat an eye about that, so the events are probably a little different from what we expect. Should Flynn get a chance to touch on that, I'll be very interested to see how he fits it together.

[Wittymations]

I like how there's now a type of currency system in placed that's more defined between the three powers. But I wonder what he means by "no one uses them."

[Mando-Whirl-Wind]

I like how there's now a type of currency system in placed that's more defined between the three powers. But I wonder what he means by "no one uses them."

 

No one uses' EGGman's money, since its worthless outside his jurisdiction, its like confederacy money

[biznizz]

Yeah, besides everyone knows Bison Dollars are where it's at when it comes to dictator enforced currency.

[Wittymations]

Still can be used inside his own. Besides, I kinda don't see any Egg soldier walking up and ordering a candybar from either GUN or Mobotropolis, despite currency worth.

[comic321]

So..no Babylon Rogues for awhile? 

[Tenko]

The Hooligans will get some backstory, and the Battle Bird Armada are coming back!! That made me let out a little "Yes!!" whilst I was working. Great news for fans of all those lost characters and their current and past inclusion in the comics. Like Mando said, I wonder if that means Mighty and Ray and the Knuckles Chaotix game will end up being touched on too. No mention of Sky Patrol either in that non cannon list so I'm hoping Drawloverlala gets to see its inclusion happen one day too, especially after all that effort put into that excellent artwork

[Gabz Girl]

I know I'm a bit late on this but I'm really disappointed to hear that Shard has been confirmed not to ever appear in the comics again just because of some minor detail that bastard Pendurrs put in. Unbelievable, just how much more can I loathe this guy?

[-blank-]

To provide a little snippet...he can't use Tiara and Gazebo. Oh.

 

So, Ian can use Madonna, but he can't use those two? What the hell?