Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[DabigRG]

5 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Charmy is ridiculously fast and energetic, and he has a potent weapon built into his backside. Cream is virtually defenseless without her Chao to sic on enemies. Like I've said countless times: Sally keeping a six-year-old bunny away from danger isn't pandering to her; it's being pragmatic.

Yeah, she can spin-dash and whatnot, but she has little unique talents to bring to the table. And Cream still has a purpose as the team's medic and one of its cooks; not the most glamorous roles, but still important.

Ian isn't "biased" just because he isn't giving your favorite character extended time in the spotlight. She'll do something big when the story calls for it.

I agree to a point: Charmy, as a bee, is perfectly capable of low level close combat and he's actually another character I wanted to see do a little more at some point but Chaotix Quest made good use of him. Cream, while a rabbit isn't exactly harmless, uses various skills that don't require her to be too violent, so her fighting skill is hard to gauge. However, when she does say let's get dangerous....

I was gonna argue against that first sentence, but the second one is good enough to pass.

Well, he did briefly imply that there may some limitations to how he uses certain characters once, but he didn't put too fine a point on it, so I'll assume you're right.

[Sonictrainer]

1 hour ago, Soni said:

Golly, today was a certain surprise! I got Sonic Mega Drive today so I guess I'm the first person to have ever read it! Yay!

So yeah will put up the summary in the spoiler tag for those who want to read it without knowing anything about it, which I would recommend to be honest.

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Ok so the issue starts with Sonic fighting a Super Crabmeat/Shellcracker (I don't know looks like a fusion of both) in Green Seaside Zone who grabbed Tails. Sonic made quick work on it. Tails mentions to Sonic that he heard a rumour that Eggman is using some relics called the Ancient Gears so with that in mind and the ol' Doctor powering his badniks with animals yet again, Sonic and Tails goes to another big adventure. After beating ol' Robuttnik again, Sonic and Tails go to Flower Park Zone where they find Amy, who wants to join the two on their adventure. This time unlike CD, she can actually take care of herself with her Piko Hammer. And yet another big pwnage to Eggs man, the 3 young heroes goes to Cascade Temple Zone (which looks much more like Labyrinth Zone than Lost Labyrinth Zone lol). But the 3 heroes are trapped between a spike wall and a hard place but they eventually made it out and it turns it's the fighting freak Knuckles that's screwing them over. Through a hilariously crudely drawn flashback, Knuckles was tricked by Eggman into think Sonic went rogue with the Chaos Emeralds after the events of 3 & Knuckles. Sonic called him out on his bullshit and told him he was tricked, it took Knux a bit but when he got it, he got mad and goes straight for Eggman who stole the ME while Knux was doing his typical thing. But in the next room, was already prepared for his attack against Sonic and crew. But of course, he didn't and got dunked on. Since Eggman has the ME and it's been a while since he had a good treasure hunt, Knuckles join Sonic, Tails and Amy to get the ME and the rest of the Ancient Gears back!

So yeah, pretty simple story but that's to be expected since the Classic games didn't really have big and epic stories.

I can't really say anything bad about it, I mean it's pretty simple and easy to understand so while I prefer a bit more meat in the story, Mega Drive's story was just fine.

What I love about it is three things,  Tyson's very expressive art, Matt's colors and Flynn's dialogue. All three were on point throughout the issue, never a dull moment. It paces itself fairly quick and to the point while still having some time to have some fun and silly jokes along the way.

And I think that's all there is to it, it was a really good issue that was made better by the 3 guys mentioned above. Can't wait to read Next Level, that's going to come out on November.

Also here's the Off Panel for the issue that involves Sonic, Tails and Knuckles too meeting a Game Shark Genie... Literally!

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Are all of the Zones in "Mega Drive" based on other Sega Games like Flower Park Zone being based on a level from Ristar?

[FriendBot]

I wouldn't know, never played Ristar so meh. I'm sure there just original level names so it must be a coincidence 

[DabigRG]

52 minutes ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Fiona Fox and Scourge.

Are you implying that Scourge and Fiona were a mistake!?

[Kaotic Kanine]

1 hour ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Charmy is ridiculously fast and energetic, and he has a potent weapon built into his backside. Cream is virtually defenseless without her Chao to sic on enemies. Yeah, she can spin-dash and whatnot, but she has little unique talents to bring to the table. Like I've said countless times: Sally keeping a six-year-old bunny away from danger isn't pandering to her; it's being pragmatic. And Cream still has a purpose as the team's medic and one of its cooks; not the most glamorous roles, but still important.

Ian isn't "biased" just because he isn't giving your favorite character extended time in the spotlight. She'll do something big when the story calls for it.

Nevermind that a bee stinger is a very impractical weapon (seriously, Charmy would have to really twist his head to aim that thing), Cream isn't "virtually defenseless" without Cheese. As you admitted, Cream is capable of spin-dashing and she has dealt attacks herself in Sonic X and (vary rarely) in the comics; she's not completely reliant on Cheese to deal damage. But really, I'd rather not get into a contest on which of those two characters is the better fighter because it doesn't matter. What I meant to do by bringing up Charmy is point out Ian's hypocrisy regarding Cream, with him stating that Cream shouldn't take part in action "because she's an inexperienced child and isn't mentored by Sonic like Tails is" but he freely allows Charmy to take part in action even though he is the exact same age as Cream and is a scattered-brained brat. By the logic Ian uses to keep Cream out of the action, Charmy should be kept out of the action as well, yet he gets to take part in Chaotix Quest, Great Chaos Caper, and even World's Collide, but it would still be stupid if he did keep Charmy out of the action because that logic is stupid in the context of the Sonic franchise in the first place. On that note, I think I should also mention that age in the Sonic franchise is a very arbitrary factor. Really, a Sonic character's age only really affects their design and aspects of their personality; nothing else is affected by their age, especially combat ability, so Ian restricting Cream due to her age is doubly stupid because, in the context of the Sonic franchise, age means jack shit when it comes to capabilities.

I'm sorry but I'd hardly call Sally denying Cream involvement in missions pragmatism. I mean, the entire planet has been shattered to pieces right now! In a situation like that, wouldn't it be more pragmatic to have as many team members out in the field to do what they can to fix the planet before things ultimately get worse? And, as I've said countless times myself, Sally keeping Cream out of the action makes no sense since Cream has been involved in dangerous adventures before; Advance 2&3, Heroes, Battle, and PPP (sure, Sally didn't witness the latter but Cream obviously would've told Sally of her involvement, with Amy testifying for her. In fact, didn't the Sol Emeralds summon Cream alongside Amy because they knew her help was needed). Everything that has happened in SWC is literally no dangerous than any of those previous adventures (well, except perhaps Battle). Even the Dark Gaia Monsters aren't any more of a threat than the average Badnik. I've also agreed many times that I wouldn't mind Cream being the team's medic, the problem is we very rarely see her do any medic work, nor is it ever treated as a major role that makes her important. Like, if Cream has healed/revived a major fighter (say, Sonic) in the middle of a battle and that proved crucial to victory, I would call that important. Slapping a mere band-aid on Sally's burn wound after the major battle ended, I struggle to consider that important (nor do I think the average reader would as well). In fact, I don't think Cream has ever even been called the team's medic, she's always introduced as "trainee" or "young heroine".

I will take back calling Ian biased, however, that was uncalled for. But it's hard to see it as anything else since Ian allows pretty much every other character to take part in the action, overall look important, and explicitly denies Cream anything more than menial tasks.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Kaotic Kanine

[Sean]

Some kids in fiction are able to fight. Others are not.

Some adults are able to fight. Others are not.

Sally keeping Cream out of the action makes no sense since Cream has been involved in dangerous adventures before; Advance 2&3, Heroes, Battle

Whether or not the comics adhere more closely to the games than before, the games are still an entirely separate canon and it's very much possible that the new!Archieverse versions of the Advance and Rush games didn't involve Cream playing as active of a role.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

4 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Are all Flynn mistakes caused by editors?

Also,"one writer who knows what he's doing out of all the ones we currently have" is going to the extremes. Aleah Baker is great, Tracy Yardley and Evan Stanley can make good stories too. That leaves who? Two people who made back up once? Off Panels writers?

Yeah, my bad for forgetting the other writers of Archie. Ian's just so much more prominent that I tend to forget them.

That said,

I'm

very glad that Ian didn't just shoehorn Knuckles in Mega Drive and dump the Master Emerald like every other current series has. Ian has always had a lot trust with this character, so glad to see that he kept his aspects here too.

[Dee Dude]

Forget Cream, where mah boyz Bean & Bark at?! *looks at Panic In The Sky* oh right.

Honestly though, I really do want Cream in action more often but not just her, EVERYONE ELSE. I'm glad the post reboot Archie isn't pulling a DBZ/Modern Sonic where we barely see anyone but the core characters doing anything useful while all the other characters are being demoted to mere spectators/cheerleaders.

Cream has done important things before and will continue to do so as well as everyone else. Just give it time.

AND WHY HAVEN'T THE BABYLON ROUGES APPEARED YET!? ARE THEY THE ONLY GAME CHARACTERS WHO HAVEN'T BEEN SEEN YET AT THIS POINT!?

[blade57331]

1 hour ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Yeah, my bad for forgetting the other writers of Archie. Ian's just so much more prominent that I tend to forget them.

That said,

 

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I'm

very glad that Ian didn't just shoehorn Knuckles in Mega Drive and dump the Master Emerald like every other current series has. Ian has always had a lot trust with this character, so glad to see that he kept his aspects here too.

 

Knuckles was almost always written decent in archie (even at Penders-era, dare I say?)

Which is one of the reasons why I started geting interested in comics on the first place. After watching how SEGA is handling him in modern days.

[Shadowlax]

5 hours ago, Sean said:

Some kids in fiction are able to fight. Others are not.

Some adults are able to fight. Others are not.

 

 

Whether or not the comics adhere more closely to the games than before, the games are still an entirely separate canon and it's very much possible that the new!Archieverse versions of the Advance and Rush games didn't involve Cream playing as active of a role.

To the top

What does that even mean?

 

To the bottom, that's kinda bs.

 

 

To cream in general, one it makes sense that they don't want her to fight because she is one of the few characters with actual paerents and if she gets hurt... well that's a hard conversation to have , her only real talents besides spin dashing involve having a chao defend her. And while that could possible evolve into something cool like " she descrovered the reason she could use that chao so well is because she was a stand user the whole time.... " she is a game character who is perpetually stuck in one place and a game character who like most game characters now a days are hardly used, so she will never get evolution and growth. So if you wanted super active cream, as it it may suck, you might just like the wrong character. It sucks right, but that's the franchise you are dealing with .

7 hours ago, Forte-Metallix said:

And Cream still has a purpose as the team's medic and one of its cooks; not the most glamorous roles, but still important.

 

Lets be real here its an action comic based on a video game series, no one gives a shit about those roles. They want to see their character punch somoene in the face, that comforts no one and actively makes it worse.

 

Quote

 She'll do something big when the story calls for it.

That day probably wont ever come, that day never came in the games.

You just got to play as her.

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

3 hours ago, blade57331 said:

Knuckles was almost always written decent in archie (even at Penders-era, dare I say?)

I wouldn't say Knuckles was well written during Penders-era, but I admit that it really kills me to say that he had better moments in the Penders-era than he did post-Heroes of the games.

[Ellipsis-Ultima]

The concepts for issue 283's cover!

Also, this off panel.

[MetalSkulkBane]

7 hours ago, DabigRG said:

Are you implying that Scourge and Fiona were a mistake!?

I guess (and hope) he meant pairing them together, not characters as they are.

(This is arguable too, but to lesser degree)

[Shaddy Zaphod]

25 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

I wouldn't say Knuckles was well written during Penders-era, but I admit that it really kills me to say that he had better moments in the Penders-era than he did post-Heroes of the games.

More impressive sure, but fitting or reasonable? No. Penders turned Knuckles into Jesus.

literally.

[Celestia]

1 hour ago, Blazing Flare said:

Doctor Doom and Darth Vader? Now there's some cameos of their legs I didn't expect to see in a Sonic comic, even in an Off-Panel!

[goku262002]

48 minutes ago, Celestia said:

Doctor Doom and Darth Vader? Now there's some cameos of their legs I didn't expect to see in a Sonic comic, even in an Off-Panel!

kind of reminds me of 90s Archie Sonic, where they would make a ton of comic and movie references.

[SBR2]

17 hours ago, shdowhunt60 said:

Fiona Fox and Scourge.

What you mean how he made them actual characters?

[Sega DogTagz]

11 hours ago, Shaddy the guy said:

More impressive sure, but fitting or reasonable? No. Penders turned Knuckles into Jesus.

 

literally.

 

Knux was pushing full-on God at one point. Re-writing reality with a flick of the wrist and whatnot.

[Soniman]

5 hours ago, SBR2 said:

What you mean how he made them actual characters?

Fiona went from bland arm candy for Sonic to detestable arm candy for Scourge 

Scourge went from a silly parody to a parody meant to be taken seriously... And is hated as a result 

Honestly I wouldn't use these characters as testaments to Ian's writing skills, I mean he did more with them sure but last I checked they weren't particularly loved under his run anyway lol

[Big Panda]

"Wheren't loved under his run"

Scourge got his own Universe arc. That literally never happens to comic exclusive characters unless they're ultra popular. Which Scourge was.

[blade57331]

There are many people who loved Scourge. He was one of the most popular comic exclusive characters (if not the most popular).

Hell, him and Finitevus were ones of my favorite villains in pre-reboot. 

[Shadowlax]

2 hours ago, Ernest-Panda said:

"Wheren't loved under his run"

Scourge got his own Universe arc. That literally never happens to comic exclusive characters unless they're ultra popular. Which Scourge was.

The 30 years later arc got a universe arc, and that is widley considered to be one of the worst things this comic produced.

Sometimes something doesn't have to be popular, sometimes some one wants it to be. Also all this is pre-reboot, and possibly a different mentality, is scourge still was existed... with this reboot I doubt he would get an arc now.

[Celestia]

I feel like Scourge was at least in part allowed to have a Universe arc due to popularity, but also because despite being comics-exclusive, he's still technically an alternate universe version of Sonic.

[VO.SUPER]

Hey guys. I'm actually interested in collecting a bunch of the pre-reboot stuff. Where is a good stopping point before the reboot though? Is there an issue that wraps things up pretty nicely with minor if no plot threads left dangling? 

 

I'd really rather not end on a cliffhanger.

[Forte-Metallix]

5 minutes ago, VisionaryofSUPER said:

Hey guys. I'm actually interested in collecting a bunch of the pre-reboot stuff. Where is a good stopping point before the reboot though? Is there an issue that wraps things up pretty nicely with minor if no plot threads left dangling? 

 

I'd really rather not end on a cliffhanger.

Maybe go for Issues 1-50? #50 was originally meant to be the end of the book.

But any of Flynn's work is worth checking out: #160-247. Yeah, there's no definitive ending, but you'll be missing out on a lot of good stuff otherwise. And pretty much any Sonic Universe arc is worth your time, too. (The possible exception being Mobius: 30 Years Later) Those arcs are mostly self-contained.