Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Shadowlax]

2 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

1. That's still multiple arcs in a row, when a lot of screentime was taken away from Knuckles. I'd even argue one of the main Knux arcs was dedicated more to Shadow due to the entire thing having his new arch-enemy, and focusing more on their attempts to take the Master Emerald without Knux's permission. 

2. The client thing was a joke. An obvious joke because of the fact apparently two of the main cast isn't enough to uphold an arc and sell copies so Team Dark has to be shoehorned in again.

3. I don't even know why Team Dark fans would defend this, considering Ian pretty much confirmed they're there to be there.

4. We've known they were going to be in it, but from what it seemed, it only looked like a single issue they would be present, which would make sense if Amy/Knuckles was going around the world collecting shards. Kind of like how Scrambled had multiple characters for only one issue due to it being a globe-trotting hunt for Snively. This flat out confirms they'll be present for the full arc, once again.

 

As a fan of team dark and shadow in particular, I an said shadow does an important thing. Now he said he's just there to be there , so it seems like these things don't match up. So I guess i'm more upset because it feels like " if he's just there, tell me you didn't have to lie, I like the character" or " he said that to satiate people and this arc might end up being more about shadow that we thought it was"

As far as shadow and knuckles are concerned, I wish they would hang out more actually. I think they would have an interesting dynamic.

So I guess I don't agree.

 

 

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay, last point on arc musings for now, I swear.

If this arc is going to involve Meropis, then it's possible Razor will be here given that the Shark vs Crocodile rivalry is pretty legendary (and pretty real, too). That would give even more reason for Abyss to show up, if the theory about Abyss being the captain of the crew Razor used to be part of in his SCO story holds any water (hurr)

So in summary;

Echo is the client on the cover - Pretty certain about that one.

Princess Undina is the motive - Pretty certain on that one too.

Abyss will play the bad guy here - Not as certain, but it makes sense to me.

Razor will play a key role - Again not as certain, but he makes a good bridge character for the above. 

[DabigRG]

11 hours ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

If I had to guess Metal will have duel with certain black-yellow robot (and people will go "Only I feel deja vu?"), thus effectively removing each other from the bigger story.

True, I hadn't really thought of that. I was remembering their in STH 256 in conjunction with how part 1 will probably end.

[Your Vest Friend]

Okay, so I just had a bath, and I don't know if it was the water exposing my sins, but I lied before. Sorry.

I made a joke about A Fish Called Wanda before, but switch Wanda with Undina and you have the perfect arc name for what I've theorised. You could call it Finding Undina as well because of Finding Dory hitting the spotlight, but A Fish Called Wanda is a very famous heist film, and not only fits in with the smoky theme of the cover but also highlights the comedy of the Chaotix (and since it was a heist film, maybe further implying Abyss' involvement?). That might be why the bottom is taking so long to be revealed; the title is there, and it would give the game away.

Also, I remembered that the first place that Undina was seen was in Casino Park, in Champions. Not only is that probably close to where the Chaotix are (they're on the same continent at least, they're both urban environments and it would make sense as to how the Chaotix got from Aquatic Mine/Pumpkin Hill to at home and at the tournament so quickly), but Espio was also present at the tournament, so he might have picked up a clue on her whereabouts, or knows how to find one. 

So, RE-Summary;

Echo is the client on the cover - Pretty certain about that one.

Princess Undina is the motive - Pretty certain on that one too.

Abyss will play the bad guy here - Not as certain, but it makes sense to me.

Razor will play a key role - Again not as certain, but he makes a good bridge character for the above. 

The arc title is called A Fish Called Undina (or something to that effect) - Slightly more certain on that than the above two due to how the reveal is keeping the title under wraps for now.

Undina's appearance in Champions will be referenced, or provide the first clue in this adventure - I'd put money on it, it'd give some purpose to her appearance there.

Now, the one question left (for now) is how her appearance in Shamar would be factored in...

[CrownSlayers Shadow]

6 hours ago, DaddlerTheDalek said:

Ian Flynn wanted to do something bigger (and probably better) with House of Cards (#178-179) than what we've got. But Mike Pellerito forced him to shrink it into a two parter.

Oh, for fucks sake!

Can this man catch a fucking break without someone screwing over his plans? This is the one writer who knows what he's doing out of all the ones we currently have. This is ridiculous.

[DabigRG]

12 minutes ago, Conquering Storm's Servant said:

Oh, for fucks sake!

Can this man catch a fucking break without someone screwing over his plans? This is the one writer who knows what he's doing out of all the ones we currently have. This is ridiculous.

*coughcough*Aleah Baker*coughcough*

[MetalSkulkBane]

Are all Flynn mistakes caused by editors?

Also,"one writer who knows what he's doing out of all the ones we currently have" is going to the extremes. Aleah Baker is great, Tracy Yardley and Evan Stanley can make good stories too. That leaves who? Two people who made back up once? Off Panels writers?

[DaddlerTheDalek]

I have read #283 today. It was a really nice setup for Panic in the Sky.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

47 minutes ago, MetalSkulkBane said:

Are all Flynn mistakes caused by editors?

Also,"one writer who knows what he's doing out of all the ones we currently have" is going to the extremes. Aleah Baker is great, Tracy Yardley and Evan Stanley can make good stories too. That leaves who? Two people who made back up once? Off Panels writers?

It depends to be honest.

Some of the mistakes such as Cream having almost no role in the group is all Ian for example, due to his feelings towards the character generally being "Because someone her age can't fight" and then later tried to dispute the point when people pointed out Tails has been a freedom fighter since her age as "He is around Sonic so he has more experience", despite the fact the same argument can be made for Cream due to her friendship with Amy. He also admits that while SEGA mandated Charmy to be like his game counterpart, the way he went about doing it was absolutely horrible and contrived. 

Other mistakes, such as the following:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

[FriendBot]

Golly, today was a certain surprise! I got Sonic Mega Drive today so I guess I'm the first person to have ever read it! Yay!

So yeah will put up the summary in the spoiler tag for those who want to read it without knowing anything about it, which I would recommend to be honest.

Spoiler

Ok so the issue starts with Sonic fighting a Super Crabmeat/Shellcracker (I don't know looks like a fusion of both) in Green Seaside Zone who grabbed Tails. Sonic made quick work on it. Tails mentions to Sonic that he heard a rumour that Eggman is using some relics called the Ancient Gears so with that in mind and the ol' Doctor powering his badniks with animals yet again, Sonic and Tails goes to another big adventure. After beating ol' Robuttnik again, Sonic and Tails go to Flower Park Zone where they find Amy, who wants to join the two on their adventure. This time unlike CD, she can actually take care of herself with her Piko Hammer. And yet another big pwnage to Eggs man, the 3 young heroes goes to Cascade Temple Zone (which looks much more like Labyrinth Zone than Lost Labyrinth Zone lol). But the 3 heroes are trapped between a spike wall and a hard place but they eventually made it out and it turns it's the fighting freak Knuckles that's screwing them over. Through a hilariously crudely drawn flashback, Knuckles was tricked by Eggman into think Sonic went rogue with the Chaos Emeralds after the events of 3 & Knuckles. Sonic called him out on his bullshit and told him he was tricked, it took Knux a bit but when he got it, he got mad and goes straight for Eggman who stole the ME while Knux was doing his typical thing. But in the next room, was already prepared for his attack against Sonic and crew. But of course, he didn't and got dunked on. Since Eggman has the ME and it's been a while since he had a good treasure hunt, Knuckles join Sonic, Tails and Amy to get the ME and the rest of the Ancient Gears back!

So yeah, pretty simple story but that's to be expected since the Classic games didn't really have big and epic stories.

I can't really say anything bad about it, I mean it's pretty simple and easy to understand so while I prefer a bit more meat in the story, Mega Drive's story was just fine.

What I love about it is three things,  Tyson's very expressive art, Matt's colors and Flynn's dialogue. All three were on point throughout the issue, never a dull moment. It paces itself fairly quick and to the point while still having some time to have some fun and silly jokes along the way.

And I think that's all there is to it, it was a really good issue that was made better by the 3 guys mentioned above. Can't wait to read Next Level, that's going to come out on November.

Also here's the Off Panel for the issue that involves Sonic, Tails and Knuckles too meeting a Game Shark Genie... Literally!

Spoiler

 

[Toby]

8 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It depends to be honest.

Some of the mistakes such as Cream having almost no role in the group is all Ian for example, due to his feelings towards the character generally being "Because someone her age can't fight" and then later tried to dispute the point when people pointed out Tails has been a freedom fighter since her age as "He is around Sonic so he has more experience", despite the fact the same argument can be made for Cream due to her friendship with Amy. He also admits that while SEGA mandated Charmy to be like his game counterpart, the way he went about doing it was absolutely horrible and contrived. 

Other mistakes, such as the following:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

Endangered Species was Penders' lawsuit.

House of Cards was Pellerito rushing the plot to get to Enerjak.

Worlds Unite was Kaminski's fanfiction.

Bow and the Expies were better than RobO's merry band of nobodies anyway. Don't see how they were mistakes.

[Ryannumber1gamer]

Just now, Toby said:

Endangered Species was Penders' lawsuit.

House of Cards was Pellerito rushing the plot to get to Enerjak.

Worlds Unite was Kaminski's fanfiction.

Bow and the Expies were better than RobO's merry band of nobodies anyway. Don't see how they were mistakes.

That's what I literally said.

12 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

They weren't Ian's mistakes in full, but they were still mistakes caused by other people.

[Dejimon11]

14 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It depends to be honest.

Some of the mistakes such as Cream having almost no role in the group is all Ian for example, due to his feelings towards the character generally being "Because someone her age can't fight" and then later tried to dispute the point when people pointed out Tails has been a freedom fighter since her age as "He is around Sonic so he has more experience", despite the fact the same argument can be made for Cream due to her friendship with Amy. He also admits that while SEGA mandated Charmy to be like his game counterpart, the way he went about doing it was absolutely horrible and contrived. 

Other mistakes, such as the following:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

and don't forget SEGA's as well. Ian does make a ton of mistakes like the Iron Dominion arc he isn't perfect and he has his flaws but you can tell that he really does care about his work.

[azoo]

13 minutes ago, Soni said:

Golly, today was a certain surprise! I got Sonic Mega Drive today so I guess I'm the first person to have ever read it! Yay!

So yeah will put up the summary in the spoiler tag for those who want to read it without knowing anything about it, which I would recommend to be honest.

  Reveal hidden contents

Ok so the issue starts with Sonic fighting a Super Crabmeat/Shellcracker (I don't know looks like a fusion of both) in Green Seaside Zone who grabbed Tails. Sonic made quick work on it. Tails mentions to Sonic that he heard a rumour that Eggman is using some relics called the Ancient Gears so with that in mind and the ol' Doctor powering his badniks with animals yet again, Sonic and Tails goes to another big adventure. After beating ol' Robuttnik again, Sonic and Tails go to Flower Park Zone where they find Amy, who wants to join the two on their adventure. This time unlike CD, she can actually take care of herself with her Piko Hammer. And yet another big pwnage to Eggs man, the 3 young heroes goes to Cascade Temple Zone (which looks much more like Labyrinth Zone than Lost Labyrinth Zone lol). But the 3 heroes are trapped between a spike wall and a hard place but they eventually made it out and it turns it's the fighting freak Knuckles that's screwing them over. Through a hilariously crudely drawn flashback, Knuckles was tricked by Eggman into think Sonic went rogue with the Chaos Emeralds after the events of 3 & Knuckles. Sonic called him out on his bullshit and told him he was tricked, it took Knux a bit but when he got it, he got mad and goes straight for Eggman who stole the ME while Knux was doing his typical thing. But in the next room, was already prepared for his attack against Sonic and crew. But of course, he didn't and got dunked on. Since Eggman has the ME and it's been a while since he had a good treasure hunt, Knuckles join Sonic, Tails and Amy to get the ME and the rest of the Ancient Gears back!

So yeah, pretty simple story but that's to be expected since the Classic games didn't really have big and epic stories.

I can't really say anything bad about it, I mean it's pretty simple and easy to understand so while I prefer a bit more meat in the story, Mega Drive's story was just fine.

What I love about it is three things,  Tyson's very expressive art, Matt's colors and Flynn's dialogue. All three were on point throughout the issue, never a dull moment. It paces itself fairly quick and to the point while still having some time to have some fun and silly jokes along the way.

And I think that's all there is to it, it was a really good issue that was made better by the 3 guys mentioned above. Can't wait to read Next Level, that's going to come out on November.

Also here's the Off Panel for the issue that involves Sonic, Tails and Knuckles too meeting a Game Shark Genie... Literally!

  Reveal hidden contents

 

I'm gonna read any spoilers, but all I want to ask is this: how did you get it so early? Did a store just sell it early, or did you get it by mail? Because I'm supposed to have mine in by mail too, and I hope it comes earlier than the 3rd..

[FriendBot]

I got it through mail, I'm sure there's comic book stores near where I live but I'm too lazy for that so yeah. 

Also I guess another tidbit is that it doesn't seem like Mega Drive has any connections to the main comic but I guess we'll see that when Next Level comes out.

[King Scoopa Koopa]

Mega Drive looks like everything I ever wanted out of a Sonic comic back when it started.

[Arcade Racer CC14]

Sweetness! Hope mine arrives soon as well! That Off-Panel punchline got me. XD

[DabigRG]

28 minutes ago, Toby said:

Endangered Species was Penders' lawsuit.

Worlds Unite was Kaminski's fanfiction.

Bow and the Expies were better than RobO's merry band of nobodies anyway. Don't see how they were mistakes.

1.Technically, Endangered Species was Flynn's story arc! But seriously, that's more on Archie's lawyers at the time overreacting to Penders lawsuit almost halfway through production. 

2.I know about the cutdown Xander Payne plotpoint, but care to elaborate?

3.I'd agree but, to be fair, its not like Alan and Munch are the most original characters. Entertaining, but not original, plus alot of people were looking forward to seeing Rob and Mari-An.

[Kaotic Kanine]

29 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Some of the mistakes such as Cream having almost no role in the group is all Ian for example, due to his feelings towards the character generally being "Because someone her age can't fight" and then later tried to dispute the point when people pointed out Tails has been a freedom fighter since her age as "He is around Sonic so he has more experience", despite the fact the same argument can be made for Cream due to her friendship with Amy.

I know I said I would shut up about this "subject" but I just want to add one last time: EXACTLY! I would also love to point out that Ian also lets Charmy participate in battles despite him being the exact same age as Cream and logically being a terrible combatant due to how scatter-brained he is (yes, Charmy has the will to fight but he's still an extremely unfocused individual). Anyone can argue all they want but Ian's perception of Cream's character is a horribly misguided if not biased one and, assuming he hasn't already, he needs to freaking realize how wrong he is.

38 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

Other mistakes, such as the following:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

How about the Iron Dominion Arc? Was that all Ian too or was that story screwed over by other people as well? (Assuming the ID Arc is still considered to be of low quality)

[Toby]

25 minutes ago, Soni said:

I got it through mail, I'm sure there's comic book stores near where I live but I'm too lazy for that so yeah. 

Also I guess another tidbit is that it doesn't seem like Mega Drive has any connections to the main comic but I guess we'll see that when Next Level comes out.

It's canon to the main comic, but they're standalone issues so they won't have many direct ties.

[FriendBot]

I am aware that Mega Drive is canon to the comic but you easily see it set in its own universe 

[shdowhunt60]

56 minutes ago, Ryannumber1gamer said:

It depends to be honest.

Some of the mistakes such as Cream having almost no role in the group is all Ian for example, due to his feelings towards the character generally being "Because someone her age can't fight" and then later tried to dispute the point when people pointed out Tails has been a freedom fighter since her age as "He is around Sonic so he has more experience", despite the fact the same argument can be made for Cream due to her friendship with Amy. He also admits that while SEGA mandated Charmy to be like his game counterpart, the way he went about doing it was absolutely horrible and contrived. 

Other mistakes, such as the following:

-Endangered Species

-House of Cards

-Worlds Unite

-Bow and the quick expies of Chaotix Quest 

-and the Olympic Tie-In was all editors/Archie/Penders 

Fiona Fox and Scourge.

[Forte-Metallix]

11 minutes ago, Kaotic Kanine said:

I know I said I would shut up about this "subject" but I just want to add one last time: EXACTLY! I would also love to point out that Ian also lets Charmy participate in battles despite him being the exact same age as Cream and logically being a terrible combatant due to how scatter-brained he is (yes, Charmy has the will to fight but he's still an extremely unfocused individual). Anyone can argue all they want but Ian's perception of Cream's character is a horribly misguided if not biased one and, assuming he hasn't already, he needs to freaking realize how wrong he is.

Charmy is ridiculously fast and energetic, and he has a potent weapon built into his backside. Cream is virtually defenseless without her Chao to sic on enemies. Yeah, she can spin-dash and whatnot, but she has little unique talents to bring to the table. Like I've said countless times: Sally keeping a six-year-old bunny away from danger isn't pandering to her; it's being pragmatic. And Cream still has a purpose as the team's medic and one of its cooks; not the most glamorous roles, but still important.

Ian isn't "biased" just because he isn't giving your favorite character extended time in the spotlight. She'll do something big when the story calls for it.

[Sparky]

8 minutes ago, Forte-Metallix said:

Charmy is ridiculously fast and energetic, and he has a potent weapon built into his backside. Cream is virtually defenseless without her Chao to sic on enemies. Yeah, she can spin-dash and whatnot, but she has little unique talents to bring to the table. Like I've said countless times: Sally keeping a six-year-old bunny away from danger isn't pandering to her; it's being pragmatic. And Cream still has a purpose as the team's medic and one of its cooks; not the most glamorous roles, but still important.

Ian isn't "biased" just because he isn't giving your favorite character extended time in the spotlight. She'll do something big when the story calls for it.

Cream's "unique talents" revolves around Chao.

[Kazhnuz]

Even if some games and one episode of Sonic X have showed her fight, the very core of Cream's personnality is that she's non-violent and not a fighter, and don't want to hurt other people. She can fight, but she has more interesting concept to give, other mean to be a important member of a Team. The problem is more that there should be more mission that need non-fighting skills. Since the reboot, most mission was just fights, and even if I know that they called the "Freedom FIGHTER", I would like to see them do more different kind of missions, and those kind of mission could show how Cream is a valuable member of the team. When did Cream helped ? When what was needed was to rescue the heroes, not fighting baddies. Sure, she wasn't in Station Square during Damage Control, and she could have been usefull here (I kinda remember she helped Nicole and Sally to coordinate the member ?). But I loved how she called Sally out of her self-pity, that was kinda awesome.

For instance, I would love a moment where her politeness come to help during a mission, a moment where we see her doing medic stuff while talking with another character, a moment where her Chao talents are usefull, etc. (or maybe a moment where she isn't willing to fight a Egg Soldier and where that would be a thing that help a lot, like for instance making people realise that Egg Soldier haven't always the choice to follow Eggman ? That's just a rough idea, maybe a bit cliché) So, while I kinda agree that Cream could have more moments where she had something, having her fighting wouldn't be a solution at all. And it's true with other character that could have moment where their contribute something different than being another fighter in the team. That's why I liked some of the backup during the 10/10 split, because they showed character doing different stuffs than fighting, and I hope we'll see that more often post-SWC (or maybe post Genesis of a Hero)