Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Immortheus]

Here are the SU #18 preview pages.

[Blazey Firekitty]

Weren't the cats the ones Pachacamac was fighting back in the day, according to the comics?

Lol mysterious cat country

Yeah, that's true, which would make them, in a sense, the equivalent of the Drakkons in Fleetway.

Speaking of Fleetway, I find it interesting how Speedy is able to levitate with nothing to visibly propel him, much like Tekno did in Sonic the Comic.

It also makes his random racism seem all the more bizarre, since his reasoning for attacking Tails is "You're flying without wings."

...Which is exactly what Speedy is doing. Then again, he is a villain, so maybe his reasoning isn't supposed to make sense.

[Immortheus]

Yeah, that's true, which would make them, in a sense, the equivalent of the Drakkons in Fleetway.

Speaking of Fleetway, I find it interesting how Speedy is able to levitate with nothing to visibly propel him, much like Tekno did in Sonic the Comic.

It also makes his random racism seem all the more bizarre, since his reasoning for attacking Tails is "You're flying without wings."

...Which is exactly what Speedy is doing. Then again, he is a villain, so maybe his reasoning isn't supposed to make sense.

I'm fairly sure Speedy's arms are also his wings. (they just don't to have to be flapped at all)

Edited July 7, 2010 by Immortheus

[Blazey Firekitty]

I'm fairly sure Speedy's arms are also his wings. (they just don't to have to be flapped at all)

But yeah, you're probably right. Maybe it's just a peculiarity of the evolution of Mobian birds.

[JaidynReiman]

Yeah, for birds in Sonic games, their "arms" ARE their wings. That's a major complaint mentioned about Jet's comment, too, but his wings are his arms, as are other fully anthro birds in the series.

As far as "birds in the games unable to fly," it seems that according to the Babylonian Legends, they CAN fly... its just quite difficult for them to do on their own. The Extreme Gear allows them to fly with ease, essentially. Wave, likely being lighter than the others, has a much easier time flying.

The greater irony, though, is that all the Babylon Rogues are very light compared to other Sonic games (as birds), but even then their weight limits their flying capability.

[Blackwolf]

I have been running into a bit of bad luck trying to obtain Sonic Universe #1 so far.

Every comic store I went to actually said they "currently have" it in stock but when they went to search for it, it turned out it "mysteriously disappeared."

Imma cursed! Curs-ED I tells ya!

*sobs*

I snagged SU #1 as soon as it hit shelves. I knew that the comic stores would give me bullshit about it "disappearing".

[Immortheus]

Ken Penders has the rights to his characters and stories, and doesn't want Archie Comics to use them anymore.

http://www.kenpenders.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=133

As of April 21, 2010, the U.S. Copyright Office finally began certifying my copyright claims (which I initially filed beginning back in January 2009) on every single story I ever wrote, penciled or both for Archie Comics. As a result, I am now officially recognized by the U.S. Government as the owner of every single SONIC and KNUCKLES story I ever created (well, almost every one right now, but it will be “all” shortly, as soon as the Copyright Office finishes with the last few claims. But I digress…).

What does this mean?

That means anyone seeking to use my characters, concepts and stories that were published in the pages of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG, various SONIC 48-page specials, various issues of SONIC SUPER SPECIALS, the PRINCESS SALLY mini-series, the SONIC'S FRIENDLY NEMESIS KNUCKLES mini-series, KNUCKLES THE DARK LEGION and the KNUCKLES THE ECHIDNA series, must first contact me for permission and to make arrangements for the use of this material.

For example, if someone were to display a panel or page from a story I wrote and illustrated on their website, or planned to make a poster from a cover I drew, they must contact me for permission first before doing so. They will be asked to place the proper copyright notice – for example, “© 2010 by Ken Penders” - alongside the graphic image.

As for how it affects the SONIC THE HEDGEHOG titles published by Archie Comics, while it does not prevent them from publishing the SONIC series, they are not allowed to use any of my characters, concepts or stories without further discussion with my representatives. For now, they cannot reprint any of my stories in any media whatsoever, nor can they use any of my characters. Julie-Su, Geoffrey St. John, Hershey, Rob O' the Hedge, Lien-Da, the Dark Legion along with the rest of the characters and concepts I created - including the alternative universes and future timeline - cannot appear in the series.

Every story since issue #160 that features my characters and concepts is essentially unauthorized, as I did not grant Archie Comics the right to use my creations for their benefit without compensation to me.

I am currently at work creating a new story featuring my characters, the first of which is a tale of Lara-Su learning about her family, in particular the early days of her grandparents Locke and Lara-Le leading up to the time of the birth of their child. Whether or not this new story or others will feature SONIC and KNUCKLES is a decision only SEGA can make. However, there are plenty of stories to be told with the cast I already have created, and there is a sizable audience for those stories.

I initially took the action of reclaiming my work when I was contacted by many SONIC fans asking me if I had contributed in any way to the development of the video game SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. I was then startled to learn how many characters and concepts from the KNUCKLES series I created were adapted within the framework of the game's storyline. It was clearly obvious why suddenly so many fans sat up and took notice.

While I initially contributed to the SONIC mythos within the pages of the various SONIC-related comic series, I did not sign any agreement allowing my work to be used in another media. During this time, I consulted with Michael Lovitz, an Intellectual Property attorney based in Beverly Hills, who advised me of my rights and how to proceed to protect those rights.

At this time, anyone distributing and selling copies of SONIC ARCHIVES Nos. 3 through 13, SONIC SELECT Nos. 1 and 2, as well as any of the latest issues of SONIC THE HEDGEHOG and SONIC UNIVERSE that feature my characters in any way, shape or form will be asked to cease and desist or else risk facing the consequences. This includes any version of said material, which also includes my original works, which sees release in any format beyond the original published comic books, including but not limited to digital downloads. (Yes, the iTunes and iPhones stores distributing my stories are currently infringing my copyrights, and are in the process of being made aware of this infringement.)

Discussion of this news is welcome on the bulletin board elsewhere on this website, where I will respond to legitimate questions based on my schedule. Thank you.

I... don't know what to say.

[Adamis]

What a d*ck.

[Nix]

Am I the only one imagining Speedy with Jet the Hawk's voice? It seems pretty fitting from the looks of him and his attitude.

Edit: Anyways, Ken Penders should be less of an ass.

Edited July 7, 2010 by X-Alted

[Ducktor Naldush]

So...how can the story go on, without those particular characters? It sounds complicated.

[JaidynReiman]

In other words, Ian Flynn has no choice but to write out a crafty way of getting rid of about half the cast of the Sonic the Hedgehog Comic Series. Also, no more "bringing back" classic characters. This is essentially a variation of the "Ohshima owns Mighty the Armadillo" rumor, except its actually true on an extremely large-scale.

Ken Penders is officially a ****ing bastard. Not that I care much about Archie, but this type of action pisses me off to no end.

Now, he cannot claim rights to characters who came out before Archie... but any characters created during the time that he was writing the comics? How great of a span is that, anyway?

Hmm... with the Dark Legion unable to appear (without permission from Ken Penders) I honestly see the Nocturnus slipping right in to take their place. On that note, they'll probably also have Julie-Su replaced with Shade. I HIGHLY doubt they're actually going to go through and get written permission from Ken Penders for all these characters in every single issue. The only way they will is to buy off enough time in order to wipe out these characters.

Either way, I doubt Archie will cut the series. They just have to wipe out a ton of characters. Considering recent stuff happening with the Dark Legion, I can see them being wiped out quite easily.

[Frozen Nitrogen]

So...how can the story go on, without those particular characters? It sounds complicated.

I wouldn't worry about it. My understanding it that he doesn't have a leg to stand on legally. If anything, this will get HIM sued by Archie / SEGA, under the auspices of:

* Sega and whoever else owns SatAM suing him for trademark infringement and copyright infringement by claiming ownership of Sonic and the SatAM characters.

* Consumers suing for false advertising (since this means Ken made Sonic and the characters) and violation of first sale doctrine

* Archie suing for potential breach of contract (who knows), trademark infringement (the Archie logo), and copyright infringement (Archie owns the rights to the stories, not him)

Obviously ol' Ken's just a little bit pissy that the comic's doing so well without him and his gay walruses and echidna family trees everywhere.

EDIT: Not that I would personally mind seeing ten thousand cookie-cutter echidnas and the whole rest of the Penders-esque character bloat being thrown in the dustbin of history. So it's win / win from my point of view

Edited July 7, 2010 by Frozen Nitrogen

[PaddyFancy]

What can I say? That's a big disaster right there. I liked the comic.

[/minority]

[Immortheus]

No, Ken doesn't own Sonic or any of the SatAM characters. He's just saying that he owns the characters he made for the comic.

And according to Ian, the "lawyers have the situation well in hand". So yeah.

[Badnik Mechanic]

They should hire me to write the comics, I'd sort it all out, and I wouldn't sue either!

[Frozen Nitrogen]

They should hire me to write the comics, I'd sort it all out, and I wouldn't sue either!

Inb4 new super-state using the Trousers Emeralds.

[Urtheart]

Ok I am pretty sure Ken is infringing, or certainly would be if he went solo releasing ones using character he created, on what is known as a "Registered Design". Basically SEGA own the design style of the characters used in the Sonic Series. Basically all fan characters infringe on this but SEGA don't care too much about those as they are non profit and big the series up yadda yadda.

However characters like Lien and Rob'o etc all fall under that "Registered Design" and I assume that most of em had to go through SEGA for approval anyway. As such by using them outside of the Sonic Series, certainly for a profitable view which he obviously wants, would be illegal.

Yay for Games Legal and Business subject in Uni!

*gets popcorn* I want to see how this turns out, if someone doesn't get set on fire I'll be disapointed.

[T-Bird]

Frozen Nitrogen is spot on. According to international IP laws, it doesn't matter if Ken invented these characters and storylines. He was on the payrole of Archie at the time, which means that anything he does while he's working for them, belongs to them if they're going in comics. Unless he was publishing it off his own bat, which would mean he owned Archie, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

T

EDIT: Also what Urth said.

[Badnik Mechanic]

Inb4 new super-state using the Trousers Emeralds.

Ohhhh we'll wait for the fleetway revival to do those.

In all serious though, I think I could do a pretty good job at sorting out the sleep deprived drug induced hyprocondriact madness of king george that is archie Sonic. And I'd do it without resorting to the favourite storyline, theres been a revolution and princess sally is on trial.

Frozen Nitrogen is spot on. According to international IP laws, it doesn't matter if Ken invented these characters and storylines. He was on the payrole of Archie at the time, which means that anything he does while he's working for them, belongs to them if they're going in comics. Unless he was publishing it off his own bat, which would mean he owned Archie, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

Shhhh, I'm trying to get a scriptwriter job at archie!

Edit: The advert on the forum right now is "We love drama!"

Edited July 7, 2010 by Gnasher

[Urtheart]

Frozen Nitrogen is spot on. According to international IP laws, it doesn't matter if Ken invented these characters and storylines. He was on the payrole of Archie at the time, which means that anything he does while he's working for them, belongs to them if they're going in comics. Unless he was publishing it off his own bat, which would mean he owned Archie, he doesn't have a leg to stand on.

T

Well it depends on what contract he was on, it is possible to be on a contract where you own certain parts of creation (as we've seen with the whole Mighty Fiasco), but Archie was already set up and successfulish then (I think) so I doubt they would have made that mistake.

However if the article is to be believed the US law has actually given him persmission to claim the copyright, but I have no idea how US law works so I'ma keep my mouth shut on that one.

EDIT: Also what Urth said.

I r educated!

[T-Bird]

As soon as anyone publishes anything, it belongs to them. If I write a scientific paper on the grand unified theory at work, and Physical review publish it, so that belongs to them (exactly what has been published), the work belongs to my employer, and all I am entitled to is credit.

Effectively as long as they give him credit for the character design, there's not a lot he can do. He does not own the rights to any of the previous storylines.

T

[Flyboy Fox]

Even if it is just hot air, I hope it won't convince the current writers to try to move away from those characters and onto new ones, just to avoid the hassle. I LOVE some of those characters that Penders is getting butthurt over, and if the team decides to stop using them to avoid trouble, I'll be very sad :\

Dick move, Ken, dick move.

[Badnik Zero]

After saying how much I like seeing the old characters receive new life on previous pages, this happens.

This article that went up on TSS in February seems to foreshadow this shit storm. Reading the comic today is nothing like it was in '98. It's a long running series now with a history and canon. It feels like a proper comic. It takes such a long time to get a comic to a comfortable place like that. And yes Penders was formative in the early years, but it was only framework. I love the Dark Legion and that original saga, but to come back and wreck the comic you helped create over a property issue seems weak. It would've been better to sort this out as he left, I dunno if Archie is to blame for that or what. But Penders, no one will buy your book.

The comments in this article make it feel like a vendetta against Flynn. If Flynn has been stealing his work then Penders must have raped a hole through the SatAM canon, and if there was any idiot who cared enough to make it personal we'd have a situation like this. Also, aren't these characters based on Sega properties? There has to be some kind of clause that protects the comic's characters from sanctimonious bastards. Although the characters were created by Penders, they are based on already existing ideas owned by Sega, and they've been made real by a very talented new writer instead of the simple profiles they used to be.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Dabnikz

[JaidynReiman]

To anyone saying that Ken Penders is trying to take Sega property, that's not what's happening here. Honestly, I don't think he's trying to use the characters for his own... that wouldn't go well due to Registered Design (mentioned above). However, this will make a big mess with Archie if they have to dump tons of characters on short notice. All I really think he's trying to do is get back at Archie.

He can't really do anything with any of these characters unless he heavily remodels them (which he might consider doing), but even then, I doubt he'll make much off of it. The comics sell because they've got Sonic's name on it. Some people may like certain characters, but the same people see all these characters as "Sonic" characters. If they don't look like Sonic characters and Sonic is no where in sight, what's he going to do? He can make very little off it it, it reality.

The other issue is... why is he only bringing this situation up now? If he honestly wanted the characters, he would've called out Archie on it years ago.

In essence, all he can really do is take the characters away from Archie. He won't be able to do anything with them himself, though, because no one will care. The only thing this really does is put pressure on Archie to dump tons of characters on short notice, and it will also wipe out a lot of potential storylines with said characters.

[Flyboy Fox]

In essence, all he can really do is take the characters away from Archie. He won't be able to do anything with them himself, though, because no one will care. The only thing this really does is put pressure on Archie to dump tons of characters on short notice, and it will also wipe out a lot of potential storylines with said characters.

IF he does have that power (either legally or by Archie voluntarily phasing those characters out and bringing in new ones to avoid drama), I will be very very very sad. It'd be no small thing to lose all those characters and potential stories with them in.