Megathread Archie Sonic Main Discussion

[Badnik Zero]

I am currently at work creating a new story featuring my characters, the first of which is a tale of Lara-Su learning about her family, in particular the early days of her grandparents Locke and Lara-Le leading up to the time of the birth of their child.

He does claim to be writing for Echinda characters. Like Knuckles the Echidna, property and mascot of Sega.

I did not grant Archie Comics the right to use my creations for their benefit without compensation to me.

Smells like money of course. I don't know if Archie is willing to pay the man though. What is the industry standard for this, are comic contributors regularly shafted or is this an understood process of working for and leaving a book? Something tells me you don't go all Jay Leno on your former employers.

Also, shame that this came to his attention with the release of Chronicles. Lol, not related to the canceling of the game is it? Shame, I thought it was decent title.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Dabnikz

[JaidynReiman]

^ Hah! Yeah, that'll go well. Okay, so he's not as smart as I thought he was. The only thing he can do with that kind of situation is throw it on Fanfiction.net. He's NEVER going to be able to publish such a story unless he seriously redesigns the characters.

As far as Chronicles goes... well, as I've mentioned elsewhere, he can't do anything about that. Whether they were coincidentally similar to the Dark Legion or Bioware based the Nocturnus on them, they are significantly different enough that he can't really show any legal action against Sega for Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood.

Then for his "characters"... they are essentially Sonic fan-characters, period. No other question about it. The only way he can legally get away with publishing a book with these characters is, again, to significantly alter them so they don't resemble Sega's characters any longer (though I'll admit, I have seen some artists online, mainly on deviantART, do that kinda of thing; they still resemble them, but they don't look anything like Sega's regular design).

Anyway, again, unless he does the above, the only thing he can do is seriously screw Archie over for a couple comics while they find a way to ditch the characters. I honestly don't think Archie will be willing to pay him compensation, assuming Ken Penders succeeds. Of course, if he does succeed and he does not alter the character designs, Sega will turn around and sue HIM. That I'll seriously like to see. Of course, his lawyers SHOULD, theoretically, anyway, understand this.

[Flyboy Fox]

"And before anyone asks, yes, Scourge is also off-limits as he is derived from a character I created. (I may not be able to use that character either in this instance, but that doesn't mean SEGA gets automatic ownership either, given the current circumstances.)"

OH YOU DID NOT.

RAEG.

(He only 'created' evil-Sonic, not Scourge. FUCK YOU Ken.)

[Way Past Cool]

As far as designs are concerned (and that's what he's trying to reclaim-- designs) Scourge and anti-Sonic are two completely different characters. They are separate designs entirely, no more the same than Sonic and Shadow are the same. I don't think he can hold up that argument, even if plotwise they are the same person. Plotwise, technically, Sonic and Scourge are the same person. XD

At least this is what seems logical to me. He better not get away with this. The guy who designed the Bratz dolls certainly didn't.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Way Past Cool

[Agent York]

Ken, why do you gotta' make people hate you, this is an infamous move for people that will gain you hatred.

Besides the characters I'm pretty sure have stronger legal grounds with the SATAM creators and SEGA themselves. Call it what you want those characters are directly linked to the Sonic franchise characters in the comic and was created under their copyright I'm sure.

If it did go through though I'd feel bad for Ian Flynn who would have to try and make sense of removing those characters from the timeline but I'm betting he won't have too.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Dusk the Alan Wake Keeper

[Yong]

Hey Penders, it doesn't take a wall of text to explain to us that you're a dick.

I can't believe I ever let this asshole sign one of my comics.

[Flyboy Fox]

This may have been mentioned already, but a friend of mine just said this to me:

You know.. actually... I've been thinking about this? Penders claims he started this in January of 2009, right?

Funny, that... it's about the same time that 'Evil Sonic' showed back up, without his name ever really being said, and suddenly became Scourge. Who wears different shoes, a different jacket and different sunglasses.

It's about then that they started calling it 'Moebius' instead of 'Anti-Mobius'. And not long after that, his gang got a name change, to the Suppression Squad, they all changed in appearances and all go by different names now, too.

The Dark Legion isn't the Dark Legion anymore either, you notice. It's now the Dark EGG Legion... and Lien-Da was just changed as well. Very drastically. Even Monkey Khan got a new name and a new look!

I'm getting the feeling that Archie knew this was coming... The more I look at it, the more I see it.

[Agent York]

This may have been mentioned already, but a friend of mine just said this to me:

All good points I have to admit I didn't think about too much at the time. If so Archie are a lot smarter than I predicted them to be, since in the shaky world of copyrights that can do a lot for them.

The only thing I'm really worried about is if this will stop the Classic Sonic Archie Collection things from coming out.

[Way Past Cool]

You know.. actually... I've been thinking about this? Penders claims he started this in January of 2009, right?

Funny, that... it's about the same time that 'Evil Sonic' showed back up, without his name ever really being said, and suddenly became Scourge. Who wears different shoes, a different jacket and different sunglasses.

It's about then that they started calling it 'Moebius' instead of 'Anti-Mobius'. And not long after that, his gang got a name change, to the Suppression Squad, they all changed in appearances and all go by different names now, too.

The Dark Legion isn't the Dark Legion anymore either, you notice. It's now the Dark EGG Legion... and Lien-Da was just changed as well. Very drastically. Even Monkey Khan got a new name and a new look!

I'm getting the feeling that Archie knew this was coming... The more I look at it, the more I see it.

That makes an incredible amount of sense. It doesn't take much of a change for something to qualify as a new character in the eyes of copyright. All of those changes my have been EXACTLY what was needed to avoid ANY legal issue Penders could possibly try to pull.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Way Past Cool

[Badnik Zero]

The discussion going on in his forum right now has people saying that Ian was shelving Ken's characters anyways, as if to say they're not being used. But I was having the same feeling after I saw the earlier TSS article, that maybe the shift of old characters was intentional. Good call.

[JaidynReiman]

Honestly, it looks like Lien-Da may being shelved, as well, based on what's going on in an upcoming arc. If that's the case, its quite interesting. Archie planned a lot in advance to get rid of any trace of these characters in order to avoid such disputes.

So, wait, this has been going on for almost a year already? I certainly haven't heard anything about it.

[Mega]

...Woooow, Penders.

All I have to say is that he's being really ridiculous. Archie and SEGA own the rights to the characters and stories, so I certainly hope the archives won't stop. Besides, isn't it good for others to be able to read those works instead of be forbidden from them? Guy has weird priorities.

[PC the Hedgehog]

Ken seems to be under the assumption that he's fighting Archie here, when he's really fighting Sega. Everything that Ken ever created for the comic, every storyline, every character, belongs to Sega. How can he possibly be so pigheaded?

I've just about lost all respect I had for the guy. He's clearly an egomaniacal jerk who really needs to get off his high horse and quit acting like he's God's gift to the Sonic franchise and that he deserves to be treated as such.

Edited July 8, 2010 by PC the Hedgehog

[Impish]

Adding to the theory that Archie saw this coming, Ian killed off most of the echidna families in the egg grapes.

[Illuminous_Orb]

You know.. actually... I've been thinking about this? Penders claims he started this in January of 2009, right?

Funny, that... it's about the same time that 'Evil Sonic' showed back up, without his name ever really being said, and suddenly became Scourge. Who wears different shoes, a different jacket and different sunglasses.

It's about then that they started calling it 'Moebius' instead of 'Anti-Mobius'. And not long after that, his gang got a name change, to the Suppression Squad, they all changed in appearances and all go by different names now, too.

The Dark Legion isn't the Dark Legion anymore either, you notice. It's now the Dark EGG Legion... and Lien-Da was just changed as well. Very drastically. Even Monkey Khan got a new name and a new look!

I'm getting the feeling that Archie knew this was coming... The more I look at it, the more I see it.

I'm pretty sure all of this is coincidental.

Scourge and the Suppression Squad came as early as 2006, with their story arc finished in 2008. The Dark Legion name change started around 2007-8 as well. Also, it was Frank Storm who created Monkey Khan, not Ken.

I'm honestly kind of shocked just how far Ken went this time. I knew he was always kind of a little shady about his "professionalism", but this -- dude went way too far. I hope SEGA shows what's coming to him because you can't let your egocentric ideals save you after what these shenanigans might bring up.

[Aquaslash]

Dude's about to get teabagged like no tomorrow. This will be QUITE interesting.

Also good lord, I hope Lien Da is still recognizable after that recent plot change.

[Dejablue]

Yay I just read the current Universe. It's cool that their referencing Tails Adventure lol

[Phos]

Ken Penders is rapidly beginning to remind me of Chris-chan. I'm pretty sure though that Sega owns it all either way, so it sounds like he's just wasting his time and money and making himself less employable.

EDIT: Not that I would personally mind seeing ten thousand cookie-cutter echidnas and the whole rest of the Penders-esque character bloat being thrown in the dustbin of history. So it's win / win from my point of view

This would also be an acceptable. Either way, we're going to have lawyers arguing about who owns Scourge the Hedgehog, they should film it and sell it on DVD. I can just imagine Ken angrily correcting a lawyer on how to pronounce Lien-Da.

Edited July 8, 2010 by Phos

[Dejablue]

hah yes that would be hilarious. Your owner my client is the rightful owner of....Scourge the Hedgehog and Leen Da

Penders : NOOOU U FOOL! PRONOUNCE THE NAME CORRECTLY OR I'LL KILL YOU!

[The Tenth Doctor]

This is quite ridiculous. Mr Penders, please find a WTF waiting on your desk.

I'm pretty sure he doesn't have much hold on anything. Either way, with Archie's 'Changeorama' they may get away with some of them. I mean, Does Miles even look like the Anti Tails from years ago?

PS - With no Amy Story, it means no Cream huh?

[-Mark-]

Wow, what a massive prat.

Incidentally, I just nipped into the iTunes App Store and downloaded Sonic Universe #1-3 out of spite. Hey, even digital copies will be rare once they get pulled!

[Gavvie]

I was going to start collecting the Archive books at some point, because I've always been interested in the Archie run.

Probably should've started geting them sooner if he's gonna be a dickwad and C&D everybody who's selling them....That's if he's got enough paper and crayons to scrawl OMG U JUS GOT C'N'DLOL! on them.

[PoshAlligator]

The sad thing is the complete loss of respect he's creating for himself. Fans have liked him, and fans have liked his characters and stories, but they are also fans of Archie Sonic. By doing this, he's probably going to lose the only audience and fan-base he actually had. There's no way he can sell himself as having worked on Archie Sonic after this and use that for positive rep. What a fool. Not to mention he'll probably get screwed over by SEGA legal.

[Gavvie]

^ Very true, yeah. If he's wanting further work after this, he isn't going to be able to put Archie's Sonic comics on his CV anymore. They'd probably refuse to give him a reference..if that's the way it works in the US.

[Flyboy Fox]

Latest responses from Penders:

"I'd like to say at this time that what I have undertaken was not done with malice or in haste. I am simply looking out for the long-term interests of my family. That said, I knew many fans might be hurt or bewildered by my actions, but once all the circumstances that brought me to this point are known, I'm certain many will agree I had no choice but to protect my interests. In fact, I never expected to find myself in this position, yet here I am.

There will be much misinformation tossed out to confuse and obfuscate the issues at hand. You will not get that from me because I have no intention of being forthcoming with details beyond the obvious.

In the meantime, I will be in San Diego attending Comic-Con while promoting my film THE REPUBLIC as well as the forthcoming BROTHERHOOD OF THE GUARDIANS: LOCKE graphic novel. I will also be selling a special limited edition poster available only at Comic-Con featuring Julie-Su, Lara-Su, Lien-Da and the rest of the clan from the Dark Legion. My attorney Michael Lovitz will also be in attendance, providing a seminar on Copyrights and related matter. Please note that none of my actions infringe on SEGA's or Archie's rights with regards to producing the SONIC and SONIC UNIVERSE series. I also wouldn't be undertaking what I plan if I weren't within my legal rights."

and

"As I made clear in my statement, this was a process that began with everyone contacting me about my involvement with SONIC CHRONICLES: THE DARK BROTHERHOOD. So we're talking sometime late in 2008. This didn't happen overnight despite the suddenness of my announcement. Far from it. It just seems that way to everyone because they're only now finding out what's going on. There were many steps along the way that could've stopped this from coming to be, but fate decreed otherwise. I'm just as amazed we're here as you are."