Sonic Frontiers Story Dicussion (Full Spoilers)

[Zoomzeta]

31 minutes ago, mayday2592 said:

Got some serious Galactus vibes from The End. An intergalactic entity going through the universe consuming planets and it even has a purple color scheme. Those are some crazy coincidences.

More like obvious inspirations. 

[Sonictrainer]

Cool Redesign of The End by Cyberlord1109

Quote

i was thinking that the ends true appearance should be kept ambiguous as to add more intrigue and mystery surrounding so instead in the final fight against it once its moon shell is shattered it would enter another phase where a hand grabs it to protect it and you would need to damage the hand first for it to let go of the ends core(?) form in order to damage that 

thats what i came up with

 

[juiceDpunk983]

5 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

I don't think Vandalize was necessarily ever meant to be the boss theme, just one of the ending themes, which it is

Ah ok. I didn't hear it in the credits though, must've zoned out or something.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

7 hours ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Ah ok. I didn't hear it in the credits though, must've zoned out or something.

It's the ending theme for normal/easy mode, so if you played on hard you never heard it

[SenEDDtor Missile]

8 hours ago, Sonictrainer said:

Cool Redesign of The End by Cyberlord1109

A cool idea, but I gotta admit that redesign makes it look like Luffy's Gum Gum Devil Fruit.

[juiceDpunk983]

8 hours ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

so if you played on hard you never heard it

Yeah I was playing on Hard. Weird decision to do that, wonder why that's a thing.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

39 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Yeah I was playing on Hard. Weird decision to do that, wonder why that's a thing.

Because One Way Dream is the good ending theme, and fits that version of the narrative. It's not uncommon in games

[Jovahexeon Jax Joranvexeon]

Speaking of One Way Dream, and the confirmation that it's also something of a theme describing Sonic Team's arc of sorts, I wonder if Kishimoto picked this proposed story scenario from Flynn,  to line up with Sonic Team's own rise of sorts.

[juiceDpunk983]

28 minutes ago, Shaddy Zaphod said:

It's not uncommon in games

Yeah I know. I just find it strange because isn't the ending the same on all difficulties? That's why I thought Vandalise was a boss theme that was cut or replaced, when they decided to do the hacking mini-game as the final boss. Still enjoyed the game. Just the ending part of the game feels strange to me.

One Way Dream does fit more for the credits anyway.

[Shaddy Zaphod]

36 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Yeah I know. I just find it strange because isn't the ending the same on all difficulties?

Uh, no. You don't fight The End unless you play on hard.

[juiceDpunk983]

Ah ok, my bad. So he's still out there then on normal/easy mode?

[Razule]

16 minutes ago, juiceDpunk983 said:

Ah ok, my bad. So he's still out there then on normal/easy mode?

It skips to the QTE that happens when you beat the hard mode boss, and the game ends the same. So, you do fight The End, just a lot quicker.

[Duelistic Nature]

I'd love to make a full review on Frontiers from my perspective, but I'm not entirely sure where to post it since a lot of topics pick at bits from the whole. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put it? Or do these stadium dweller opinion pieces need their own topic for the whole of the game?

Spoiler... it's gonna be a long one.

[MGA_Gamer]

1 minute ago, Duelistic Nature said:

I'd love to make a full review on Frontiers from my perspective, but I'm not entirely sure where to post it since a lot of topics pick at bits from the whole. Does anyone have a suggestion on where to put it? Or do these stadium dweller opinion pieces need their own topic for the whole of the game?

Spoiler... it's gonna be a long one.

I’d put it in the Megathread topic. Others have posted long reviews on there.

[Iko]

This games' stroy brings in more questions than answers to the long running lore of the series.

There's a genetical connection between the ancients and Chaos, which by extension means that Chao are also somewhat connected to them too. Ok.

-What is The End and why is it so much obsessed with destroying the ancients that it followed them through the entire universe? Is it attracted by the power of the emeralds? Since it said that it will come back in another form, even if this incarnation gets destroyed... could it still attack Earth again some day? Is "The End" a sort of curse of the emeralds which haunts their users?

-Is Silver the one guy who travels in time mentioned by the Elder Koco? If so, are Silver's mind-related powers obtained through ancient technology? If they really met Silver, did he travel back in time because The End returned in the future?

-Were the Gaia temples built by the aliens as well, like it's implied that Sky Sanctuary and the altar of the emerald are? Since the Gaia temples are necessary for Light Gaia in order to win the fight against Dark Gaia, did Dark Gaia win against Light in the earlier cycles of the planet? Did the aliens "purify" the planet from the darkness by using the Chaos Emeralds and the temples to empower Light Gaia and let him win against Dark Gaia in the next cycle of the planet? (does it imply that the planet was actually "broken" by The End before it got sealed into cyberspace, triggering the next Gaia cycle early, in a similar way as Eggman did in Unleashed?)

-If the ancients died after one generation, how would their DNA mutate to the point of transforming into chao, since that's what Eggman's logs seem to allude to? Did the chao somehow spawn many years after the extinction of the ancients out of something else, such as data stored in the cyberspace? In that case, how would the DNA corrode itself if it was stored in the form of data in the cyberspace? There's no way the Chaos-like ancients devolved into chao in just one generation, it has to be something else than direct descendants. Are chao artificial creatures made by the ancients as a sort of more advanced versions of the kocos, to contain the souls of their dying people (and then they slowly evolved into their own separated form of life)?

-What is the Master Emerald and why was it on Earth even though the emeralds come from the ancients' planet? Why did it resonate with them and why does it seem to be part of the same set of stones if it comes from a different, unrelated planet? If what The End said is true, that the ancients are burning their soul to empower the Chaos Emeralds, did the Master Emerald resemble the Chaos Emeralds because it's created in a similar way, by someone's soul being sacrfied? Else, if the ancients did not create the Chaos Emeralds, is it possible that both the Chaos and Master Emeralds were created together by the same entity and were separated later by other civilizations, while the so called "ancients" aren't the first ones to use them?

-Could the Phantom Ruby be based on the ancients' technology too, or is it completely created by Eggman from scratch? It does seem to share some properties with those red orbs in Sky Sanctuary which can teleport you (at least, the classic version of it can also warp Sonic other than just create illusions, and in general it seems to work by creating virtual realities, something not much different than cyberspace).

-Lastly, are Sonic and friends, and all the antro animals, very far descendants of the ancients too? They don't seem to be regular animals, and they also seem to be part of the same species even though they "represent" different animals. One old theory of mine is that they evolved from chao, because chao have the power to copy traits of the animals they are exposed to... can this theory still be true? Sonic and friends being descendants of the aliens can also justify how the Babylonians are also aliens, and they too look like Sonic as well (there's also that other theory that they come from the Sol dimension because of Sky Babylon being the parallel version of Sonic's world Sky Sanctuary, that's supposedly built by the ancients too).

there's probably more. That's a mess.

[Razule]

The whole game Sage is hyping The End as this big threat that means certain doom, but it felt more like the biggest threat of the game was her. Unless I'm missing something: he traps everyone in Cyberspace to protect them, and she sets the Titans against Sonic to prevent him from releasing The End, but Sonic only had to do that because she trapped them all. She wouldn't tell him or Eggman anything because it wouldn't change the outcome, but why? The End wouldn't have been freed without Sonic.

I feel like I'm missing major info that would make this make sense, but it feels like nothing would have went wrong if Sage just didn't do anything. 

[Sega DogTagz]

On 11/16/2022 at 8:42 AM, Iko said:

-Is Silver the one guy who travels in time mentioned by the Elder Koco? If so, are Silver's mind-related powers obtained through ancient technology? If they really met Silver, did he travel back in time because The End returned in the future?

 

The Hermit Koko doesn't mention Silver; its actually Sonic that mentions him and offers his services.

The UI doesn't do a good job differentiating between who says what, but if you follow the whole conversation it only makes sense that Sonic is the one who brings him up, as the Koko himself mulls the offer before declining.

 

30 minutes ago, Razule said:

but Sonic only had to do that because she trapped them all. She wouldn't tell him or Eggman anything because it wouldn't change the outcome, but why? The End wouldn't have been freed without Sonic.. 

 

Sage's hand was forced a little bit. She had already stated that she didn't like uncontrollable variables, so Knuckles showing up on her doorstep could only end one way. The path to releasing THE END was put into motion the second she pulled in the Chaos Emeralds, which was something she probably had to do in order to activate the dormant technology and eventually get Eggman out. END was capable of soliciting help as soon as the Emeralds turned everything back on so even if Sage had done nothing to Sonic and co on their approach to the island it would have eventually made contact with Sonic or even Eggman and he would have fallen over himself to uncover the titans and try to resurrect and control End.

 

Sage as just trying to buy time until she could figure out a way to deal with End. If she had done nothing, Eggman would have been in a bad spot the second he stepped out of cyberspace.

[Iko]

1 minute ago, Sega DogTagz said:

The Hermit Koko doesn't mention Silver; its actually Sonic that mentions him and offers his services.

The UI doesn't do a good job differentiating between who says what, but if you follow the whole conversation it only makes sense that Sonic is the one who brings him up, as the Koko himself mulls the offer before declining.

I think you are right, yeah it's definitely that way. They should have added something to differentiate the dialogues depending on who's talking... even just a text color difference, or a small icon, something.

[JezMM]

I don't find the Ancients -> Chaos connection that hard to suss out really.  Well, okay, this IS fan theory until confirmed of course, but I think the simplest explanation is that Chao evolved from whatever was left behind when the Ancients were wiped out (they're big blobby water things, I could conceivably see them somehow leaving something organic behind that survives their death as complex organisms), Chaos is a mutated chao and that reawakened some dormant Ancients DNA in it or something.  This wasn't even a "Well now let's think about this" post-game musing from me particularly, it just seemed like the most obvious solution as I played.

[Indigo Rush]

My understanding from what the game says is that a remnant survived on Angel Island, built the ruins that Knuckles was musing over in the prologue cartoon and the eons of DNA irradiation happened to which they evolved into Chao. 

[Whatever the WhoCares]

I gotta say, this is the first time a Sonic game’s story has made me want to go back and replay Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. This game recontextualizes the lore, and I’ll never look at Chao the same way again. 

[StaticMania]

Why Adventure 2?

This game's story doesn't relate to any of the events in SA2.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

Just now, StaticMania said:

Why Adventure 2?

This game's story doesn't relate to any of the events in SA2.

Because this is the first time I can see Mike Pollock’s Eggman in the events of SA2. It’s the first time since the 2000s that these even feel like the same characters. 

[Dr. Mechano]

19 minutes ago, StaticMania said:

Why Adventure 2?

This game's story doesn't relate to any of the events in SA2.

It doesn't relate as strongly as it does to SA1, but it does parallel some aspects of it. Especially the whole "Scientist becomes parental figure to beloved (grand)daughter" thing. Eggman even directly compares Sage to Maria and wonders if they were similar.

[Whatever the WhoCares]

56 minutes ago, Dr. Mechano said:

It doesn't relate as strongly as it does to SA1, but it does parallel some aspects of it. Especially the whole "Scientist becomes parental figure to beloved (grand)daughter" thing. Eggman even directly compares Sage to Maria and wonders if they were similar.

Not to mention the artificial Chaos monstrosities and the continued emphasis on Chao.