Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Razule]

18 minutes ago, The Deleter said:

Tomorrow's gameplay reveal link:

 

Thought this was an 06 screenshot for a second.

[Natie]

I guess if the full showcase is tomorrow I'll hold my tongue. It's weird tho that they call it the "World Premier" when they literally just showed us gameplay lol.

[___-_]

4 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I do not WANT combat to be the top priority of an open world Sonic game, I want the traversal to the the top priority of an open world Sonic game. The whole exciting thing about this game should be the fun of being a super fast character in a giant world. The fact that combat seems like a bigger priority than that seems to be a problem.

I feel you on that. If I had to guess (considering if we're dealing with a sudden competent dev team now), the combat could have been prioritized for demonstration purposes because it's the most striking difference from other Sonic games.

I'm not so opposed to having Sonic fight his enemies, but that's just me. For me, It's really just a matter of how they go about it for this new game's rules for a Sonic game. As long as they try and maintain his core aspects about him right, then I'm fine. Who's to say Sonic Team hasn't found that balance with this yet? What if some enemies only take one hit to beat on the fly while some others takes a lil more involvement? What if you don't have to fight them all and that there're better ways to go about a situation given whatever this game wants you to do? These are just the little things that I'm looking for as the game gets unfolded.

Hopefully tomorrow they'll give us some of that good shit, showing what the levels are actually about, on top of how fleshed out the combat can be.

[Scritch the Cat]

I'm probably derailing something here, but I can't get past how obnoxious that sombre piano music is to me.  It's become such a ubiquitous thing in trailers for this sort of game (and often the games themselves, too)  that it's turning me against the notion of an open-world Sonic game even at a time when I have no reason to hate it, and beyond that, it just feels so wrong, wrong, wrong for Sonic.  The only time I feel that sort of music ever works for these games is when it still has a thumping beat, as with the Planet Wisp song.  But this latest video's music sounds more like the song from that abysmal Lost Impact stage in Shadow the Hedgehog. 

I really hope we get a video of those cyberspace levels whose music "goes hard" soon, because so far this game's publicity is bumming me out.

[Zoomzeta]

47 minutes ago, Dr. Detective Mike said:

Of course this shit keeps happening when I'm at work. Never fails.

There was no way I was going to type out what I had to say all on my phone so I waited until I got home like a good boy. 

Overall impressions; mostly positive.

I do still have concerns of course but years of doing this dance has imparted on me the importance of chilling out and not jumping to embarrassing conclusions. 

The first thing I want to say is just me doubling down on what I've already said before in that I still think this game LOOKS gorgeous. It looks beautiful in a way that I don't think I've seen or felt since 2008. There's not much I want to go into about the style. I like Sonic being in realistic environments just fine. 

The combat is about what I expected in my mind's eye so far. Although, it's invoking a very flow motion feel to it thus reminding me a lot of Kingdom Hearts in that sense. Especially the bit at the end of one of Sonic's combos where he's still doing the Whirl-Goof. There are bits that looked a little off, like the part where he's pulling a bit of a much faster 06 by repeatedly punching at something until it dies. Who knows how that'll feel in practice though. If it can manage to play and feel like an off brand Kingdom Hearts than I personally believe it would lead to the best possible outcome for me though the jury is still out on how all of this will mesh together. I'm not seeing anything that's standing as a big red flag that it won't at the moment.

The enemies are nice but leaning more into so-so territory to me so far. The fact that they don't have faces and look so otherworldly is imparting onto me a very creepy vibe at the moment. I appreciate that, however, I am wondering how far they'll carry the designs. What I saw doesn't look bad per say but I think this'll be one of those instances where the full package is where I'll be able to form a full opinion on it. That'll also come with knowing what, in-story, they're even supposed to be.

The biggest concern is mostly just how empty it all continues to feel. The openness is great but the vastness does come at a cost sometimes. When playing I can imagine myself easily getting immersed in a specific environment that's like this, sure, however it standing as the first and only area we're currently seeing right now is making the concern for it's empty feel stand on it's own for a little too long for my tastes. I'm not at the point where I feel it's necessary to conclude that every area will be like this. I don't even truly believe it'll be bad having this area around but I do generally hope for something that can feel a little more populated. It's also not horrendous in this regard based on what I'm seeing either. That would be what Rise of Lyric did but it's still a viable concern.

Then again, if the point is exploring and re-discovering a mostly left alone landscape then that issue could be mitigated by there simply being a few recognizable NPCs to interact with, ala, Sonic's friends. However, each game that comes out sees me doing this worry-wart dance in my skull about who's going to show up and how many of them will. When the Chaotix were revealed for Forces it was a massive weight off my chest at the time but seeing as how that amounted to exactly nothing and this game is looking a lot more promising, the feeling of wanting the news of the others being around is coming back again.

Plus, I'd like to see Ian Flynn take a crack at writing as many of them as he can in here. 

By far the biggest positive for me out of all I'm seeing here is the RAIN. Good god, it's criminal how little rain there is in the Sonic series. I love the rain so much. This game also seems like it's going to have a day and night system along with it's change in weather stuff so I can only hope I'll be able to manipulate things so that it can rain as much as I want. Especially at night. That's the best atmosphere for rain to me. Feels great.

Based on what I'm seeing and what I've heard of this game so far I was already convinced I'd like it more than Forces at least. Not a high bar but that's not an indictment against this game by any means. It's nice to finally have gameplay but I'm going to need a bit more to get a full feel for where I believe this is going. If anything, it certainly feels very new. The boost, as it's shown here, hasn't hindered their ability to make progress on a lot of the elements shown but if it's sticking around then the concerns pertaining to all the issues recently brought up and talked about it will likely still be a negative factor for me until I see otherwise. 

All in all, I'm more optimistic than not. Which is a good feeling to have right now.

Ok, wow. 7 minutes. That's actually a lot more than I expected really. 

Just now, Scritch the Cat said:

I'm probably derailing something here, but I can't get past how obnoxious that sombre piano music is to me.  It's become such a ubiquitous thing in trailers for this sort of game that it's turning me against the notion of an open-world Sonic game even at a time when I have no reason to hate it, and beyond that, it just feels so wrong, wrong, wrong for Sonic.  The only time I feel that sort of music ever works for these games is when it still has a thumping beat, as with the Planet Wisp song.  But this latest video's music sounds more like the song from that abysmal Lost Impact stage in Shadow the Hedgehog. 

I really hope we get a video of those cyberspace levels whose music "goes hard" soon, because so far this game's publicity is bumming me out.

...Either that or you have a troubling condition when you hear piano notes. 0_0

8 minutes ago, Natie said:

I guess if the full showcase is tomorrow I'll hold my tongue. It's weird tho that they call it the "World Premier" when they literally just showed us gameplay lol.

Well it more a teaser to the longer gameplay showcase. 

12 minutes ago, Razule said:

Thought this was an 06 screenshot for a second.

And some say this doesn't look like a Sonic game.  

[Slashy]

10 minutes ago, StriCNYN3 said:

I feel you on that. If I had to guess (considering if we're dealing with a sudden competent dev team now), the combat could have been prioritized for demonstration purposes because it's the most striking difference from other Sonic games.

 

The big giant open world should be the striking difference, if SEGA does not see that there is trouble.

I am not against the combat, but I am concerned that it is taking priority over Sonic's movement in the world being fun to navigate through.

Neither of the two reveals have tried to show how fun it is for Sonic to run through the world, one tried to hype up the world design the other tried to hype up the combat.

We really should have gotten something like the Sonic CD intro for a trailer.

[Razule]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

I do not WANT combat to be the top priority of an open world Sonic game, I want the traversal to the the top priority of an open world Sonic game. The whole exciting thing about this game should be the fun of being a super fast character in a giant world. The fact that combat seems like a bigger priority than that seems to be a problem.

That's what I've been stuck on thinking about this game. A Sonic game with open-world elements, and it may not be taking an advantage of that to give a uniquely Sonic experience. It's like if an open-world Spider-Man game took place in a city with no skyscrapers.

A lot of people seem to like this action-adventure direction though.. are my standards just too specific? What is Sonic? Maybe I've been drinking the kool-aid from all those momentum simulator fan-games. Maybe all it has to do is feature Sonic and be somewhat speedy, and that should be enough. 

[Slashy]

3 minutes ago, Razule said:

That's what I've been stuck on thinking about this game. A Sonic game with open-world elements, and it may not be taking an advantage of that to give a uniquely Sonic experience. It's like if an open-world Spider-Man game took place in a city with no skyscrapers. 

My friend said the exact same thing. I am shocked we haven't seen the high speed platforming every Sonic fangame likes to use as their vertical slice.

[The Deleter]

10 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The big giant open world should be the striking difference, if SEGA does not see that there is trouble.

I am not against the combat, but I am concerned that it is taking priority over Sonic's movement in the world being fun to navigate through.

Neither of the two reveals have tried to show how fun it is for Sonic to run through the world, one tried to hype up the world design the other tried to hype up the combat.

We really should have gotten something like the Sonic CD intro for a trailer.

This game isn't going to be trying to sell people on how cool it would be to move through a world as Sonic, frankly. It's focused on Sonic's prowess in athleticism in 1-on-1 combat. That's what the skill tree focus hinted at, that's what the rather flat open world to house tons of enemy secrets hinted at, and what the "action adventure" direction stated in interviews hinted at.

It's one of the features of Modern Sonic's design and subsequent direction being more action focused and limb-centric, from running rather than rolling, to kicking and punching. I don't fault them for actually capitalizing on it and making Sonic more distinct from the competition.

 

My rationalization of it is that I would prefer a polished to perfection Sonic game built around this + the boost formula they already use before they even attempt anything physics based, since I had no confidence that Sonic Team could pull that off.

And if this automation is anything to go by...

That mindset was completely justified 

[Scar]

Is that automated? I can't tell, because there's a cut in there.

[___-_]

46 minutes ago, Slashy said:

The big giant open world should be the striking difference, if SEGA does not see that there is trouble.

I am not against the combat, but I am concerned that it is taking priority over Sonic's movement in the world being fun to navigate through.

Neither of the two reveals have tried to show how fun it is for Sonic to run through the world, one tried to hype up the world design the other tried to hype up the combat.

We really should have gotten something like the Sonic CD intro for a trailer.

Trust me, I simply won't allow myself to pass away until I SEE that Sonic CD intro realized into a gaming format =P And in a perfect world, Sonic Team would have done this as soon as the technology allowed for it to happen instead of all the stupid ass gimmicks and blunders they've done to mask what Sonic's actually about.

But I've never felt so close to that realization than ever before now. Like it's right there within our grasps with this open world stuff. They've also shown to have removed the boost aura implying that things are going to be a lil more momentum based now(or at the very least not having free speed given to you by just ignoring 90% of obstacles). They've also shown Sonic is undoubtably more nimble than his boost iterations. The loops and other iconography that are missing, I totally get that. I feel they've should've shown that first and foremost for people that are in doubt, but I'm willing to wait what other parts of the map they've shown off. at least changes are being made to the level design, because there wasn't nearly as much rails in the air from what we've known of this game for a year up until now.

If all the compromise is is to have a little combat, something that's not even that far removed from Sonic I feel, then I'm all up for that. Obviously, they shouldn't go overboard with that because that's just gonna fuck the pacing all up, but maybe that's what the team felt to flesh out the game a little more in a reasonable manner instead of it just being boiled down to a run and jumper and knows to make that in moderation? From what's shown, it doesn't look like the whole hub is littered with enemies.

I'm just hoping it all comes together by tomorrow tho.

[The Deleter]

1 minute ago, Scar said:

Is that automated? I can't tell, because there's a cut in there.

it's two different cuts yeah. The lead in to the other is missing but we can see Sonic's feet stop sticking to the arm after a brief period of time, when the apparent invisible dash rings continue to carry him upwards. The physics just aren't good enough for Sonic to make it up a single sloped arm on his own, I don't have faith that Sonic Team has figured out how to handle every other kind of slope in turn.

Here's a clearer video of it:

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/TangibleOccasionalElephantbeetle-mobile.mp4

[Zoomzeta]

........Well, things are going on a downer...See you guys tomorrow hopefully! 

 

But I'm serious guys, do you not see a possible correlation between this game and PSO2? Like, that can't be a coincidence.  

[Rabbitearsblog]

2 hours ago, Kuzu said:

Its gonna be real interesting if this game performs well and this is the direction Sonic follows through on in later years. 

Although how well Sonic Team is able to keep up the momentum if this game performs well remains to be seen.  We've seen what happened when Sonic Colors and Sonic Generations became hits and how Sonic Team just couldn't keep up the momentum after those titles.  Hopefully, this will change with Sonic Frontiers.

25 minutes ago, Zoomzeta said:

........Well, things are going on a downer...See you guys tomorrow hopefully! 

 

But I'm serious guys, do you not see a possible correlation between this game and PSO2? Like, that can't be a coincidence.  

I guess we'll see how everyone's responses to this game will be once we get a full trailer sometime.  I honestly can't blame people for being a little critical of this title because we've been burned so many times by previous Sonic titles.  But, maybe Sonic Frontiers will be the game that turns things around for the games.  I guess we'll have to wait and see once the game officially comes out.

[CertifiedNobody]

Ok, I'm not caught up with the thread so I'm sure I've missed a lot of critique, likely cynicism as well, but I really like this! The sky rails and seemly incomplete animations don't bother me, since this looks really fun! I'm hyped for tomorrow's gameplay!

[Sega DogTagz]

2 hours ago, The Deleter said:

The physics just aren't good enough for Sonic to make it up a single sloped arm on his own, I don't have faith that Sonic Team has figured out how to handle every other kind of slope in turn.

I think its more indicative of hand-holding design, rather than a condemnation of the physics. Its no different then lining up a row of boostpads up the arm to ensure the player is vaulted up to the weak spot.

 

Its like they are afraid people are gonna get miffed when their aim is a tiny bit off and they go careening off over the horzion instead of up. Its the kind of baby proofing we saw cranked up to 11 back in Forces.

[azoo]

So just as a sneak peek I guess for the next day, I've noticed something in the video.

Two springs to the right, and one dash pad to the bottom left. So that confirms both are returning.

Also seemingly an altar with a Chaos Emerald in it.

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, The Deleter said:

 

It's one of the features of Modern Sonic's design and subsequent direction being more action focused and limb-centric, from running rather than rolling, to kicking and punching. I don't fault them for actually capitalizing on it and making Sonic more distinct from the competition.

 

 

How does an action game where you fight corrupted machines in an open world environment with bog standard action combat make him more distinct from the competition. There are three massive critically acclaimed games you can play like that already and they will all have better combat than this. 

 

[DaBigJ]

56 minutes ago, azoo said:

So just as a sneak peek I guess for the next day, I've noticed something in the video.

Two springs to the right, and one dash pad to the bottom left. So that confirms both are returning.

Is it kinda disappointingly sad that I feel extreme dread whenever I see a dash pad?

[Whatever the WhoCares]

So I guess Sonic is still using the Forces model with that short, flat top quill but like… it looks better than I remember. Maybe it’s the lighting?

[Zadent]

8 minutes ago, Whatever the WhoCares said:

So I guess Sonic is still using the Forces model with that short, flat top quill but like… it looks better than I remember. Maybe it’s the lighting?

Possibly. The animations might also play a factor?

[Razule]

So, if Frontiers does well and this gameplay defines an era of Sonic games to come, think we can expect another longer limbed Sonic design to fit the combat-centered gameplay in the roaring 2020s?

Always liked how lanky this render looks. Wasn't there something about how it's easier to animate him when he's more "realistically" proportioned?

[Scritch the Cat]

37 minutes ago, Jake_LeOFFICIAL said:

Is it kinda disappointingly sad that I feel extreme dread whenever I see a dash pad?

It's "kinda disappointingly sad" that it exists.  In this sort of game with this sort of terrain, it should be plenty possible to build up speed by utilizing the terrain well,  but this sort of appearance makes me think they still don't have the right sort of physics involved.

[Diogenes]

4 minutes ago, Razule said:

So, if Frontiers does well and this gameplay defines an era of Sonic games to come, think we can expect another longer limbed Sonic design to fit the combat-centered gameplay in the roaring 2020s?

I certainly hope not. I feel the taller Sonic gets the worse he looks. I'd rather they improve the animation/readability/reach with some squash and stretch and better posing.

[Razule]

54 minutes ago, Diogenes said:

I certainly hope not. I feel the taller Sonic gets the worse he looks. I'd rather they improve the animation/readability/reach with some squash and stretch and better posing.

Better animation feels like a pipe dream at this point.