Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Razule]

26 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

To be perfectly honest, this would actually be the game where they can allow for multiple playable characters rather than just spirits or the equivalent of it if they make this work.

If the spirits possess Sonic instead of him just using the powers, then you would be playing as the actual characters.

[NoKaine]

Remember in Generations where there were missions that the other characters would do things? Like in Chemical Plant, Classic Sonic had a mission where Tails carried him Sonic 3 style. 

Wish they do that again, if they don't want to actually have the characters.

[CertifiedNobody]

18 minutes ago, CrownSlayer’s Shadow said:

To be perfectly honest, this would actually be the game where they can allow for multiple playable characters rather than just spirits or the equivalent of it if they make this work.

If they haven't done it yet, I'm sure Sega will add multiple playable characters, probably like Sonic 3 where they all have the same basic moveset but with exclusive locations and abilities.

Sega would have to hate money & consistent branding to not incorporate Knuckles and Tails, and I believe that they've either been planning this since the movie's production began or the higher ups at Sega have been completely blindsighted by the hype for Knuckles and Tails and will demand they be added during the final year of development.

38 minutes ago, Razule said:

If the spirits possess Sonic instead of him just using the powers, then you would be playing as the actual characters.

That would be great for the dialogue we'd get alone. Except for Amy. That'd be kind of creepy.

[McGroose]

3 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

 I'm sure Sega will add multiple playable characters

Sega would have to hate money & consistent branding to not incorporate Knuckles and Tails

That is the one thing I am absolutely sure that Sega will not do.

And Sega clearly doesn't hate money because they're still piling up in the dough, people will buy the product in droves and then criticize it and buy the next one again with their critiques either not addressed or addressed in the dumbest method possible. Sega doesn't have to add anything because Sega loves EASY money. 

[Endy]

3 hours ago, CertifiedNobody said:

If they haven't done it yet, I'm sure Sega will add multiple playable characters

they better fucking not

[Razule]

New gameplay means we're at step one again. Gotta get Sonic right first. Even though it really feels like that should've happened already.

[CertifiedNobody]

9 hours ago, Razule said:

New gameplay means we're at step one again. Gotta get Sonic right first. Even though it really feels like that should've happened already.

Sonic Adventure didn't have to "get Sonic right first", so this shouldn't have to either. Just use Sonic's exact controls and gameplay but give everyone a unique ability or two. It's not like each character has to have a completely different gameplay style and objective.

Just give Sonic lightspeed dash and spin cycle, give Amy some acrobatic moves & hammer, give Tails not-overpowered flight, and give Knuckles climbing/gliding and some punch attacks. Even Sonic Boom Rise Of Lyric was able to do this. Yeah, making a game is hard, but this isn't significantly harder than making the rest of it.

[azoo]

Considering the game is centered on developing a skill tree, which is something ambitious enough to introduce to Sonic on its own, you shouldn’t expect any other playable characters at all. Not even to mention the amount of resources you’re setting aside not only for new mechanics, but new models, animations, and building story, enemies, world design or assets to utilize playing as any of them. 

And Sonic Adventure, god love it, didn’t try to “get it right” before the first attempt, but man would it have benefit from it. Pointing to that game is easier to make a case against doing that.

[CertifiedNobody]

47 minutes ago, azoo said:

Considering the game is centered on developing a skill tree, which is something ambitious enough to introduce to Sonic on its own, you shouldn’t expect any other playable characters at all. Not even to mention the amount of resources you’re setting aside not only for new mechanics, but new models, animations, and building story, enemies, world design or assets to utilize playing as any of them. 

And Sonic Adventure, god love it, didn’t try to “get it right” before the first attempt, but man would it have benefit from it. Pointing to that game is easier to make a case against doing that.

That's true, the leaks did mention a skill tree, although we don't really know how extensive the skill tree is or if it's been dropped since the  initial demos. They could just give each character a small skill tree, multiple playable characters with skill trees isn't a new concept.

They're already going to have the characters in the story, so models and building story won't be a concern. They dont need to make new enemies for each character, and they can just designs the characters at least partially around the world design rather than entirely vice versa. That leaves assets and animation. I don't know what assets means in this context, and with the animations already being done for Sonic, Super Sonic, NPCs, enemies, and bosses, I don't think 3 more is that significant.

Sonic adventure managed to make Sonic, Tails, Knuckles, gamma, and debatably Amy completely distinct and enjoyable in their first time making a 3D game. Which is a much bigger transition than the current transition to open world. Big The Cat is the only actual bad one, and it's only bad because it doesn't fit with Sonic's gameplay. It's competently designed and has a lot of effort put into the mechanics and upgrades. It is a good example because they managed to succeed in a situation that was far more complicated than it is now.

[Zaysho]

I think if we ever get a second playable character, especially with what the game appears to be going for, they're going to go for Shadow because he only needs some tweaking to have his own flare but otherwise is just Sonic. Sonic Team plays things pretty safely nowadays so I doubt it's a huge consideration right now. I'd like to see Tails and Knuckles (and hell, I'll be happy if we just get Shadow and he's done much better) but realistically I expect they and any other characters will be relegated to the story only to limit things to what Sonic can do in this setting.

I'm not even someone who cares about the "they have to get Sonic right first" shit but the last 15 years have taught me to not expect much more from Sonic Team than trying to outfit Sonic with as many tools as possible for whatever they're doing these days.

[Dr. Detective]

I've kind of given up on the others being playable again. It took quite a while before they acquiesced to using Shadow in Forces and even then he wasn't even available for all of Sonic's stages. 

Plus, the song and dance of "they got to get Sonic right first" that everyone keeps saying hasn't borne any fruit. When they got it right with Generations they scrapped it and we had to start over. Then Forces got it the most wrong the boost formula has ever been. I also doubt that they'll actually include anyone else even if they do "get it right". They haven't needed to for years now and the reception they got in the 2000s seems to have scared them into this position for probably ever.

This is despite the arguably more important reception they had from those Classics they like re-releasing so often (and Mania, which came out in 2017) being ignored. Attempting to replicate anything like that for the 3D games isn't a priority and as I'm closing in on my 30s I think it's safe to say that it's time to just pack it in as far as any expectations concerning this matter. I mean, we've reached a point where Tails' logo being the icon for lives in a game still has it so that Sonic is the one you're playing as. It feels pretty done. 

It's a shame because it really did feel like one of the things that made the series so special for me. The characters and how you could play with Sonic's formula with their assortment of abilities was something that stretched pretty far back and it's just not there anymore. Oh well.

[Red Hot Jack]

There was a leak in the website that mentioned "characters" but my expectations right now based on the trailer is Sonic gets the characters spirits as power ups/skills. Characters probably means the overall cast of the game.

[Blue Blood]

4 minutes ago, Red Hot Jack said:

There was a leak in the website that mentioned "characters" but my expectations right now based on the trailer is Sonic gets the characters spirits as power ups/skills. Characters probably means the overall cast of the game.

Nope. 

It was concerning the Japanese minisite specifically, which is built using the Persona 5 Strikers minisite as a template. The reference to "characters" in the website's code aligns with the P5S website perfectly, including even the reference to some specific characters such as Sophia. 

[CertifiedNobody]

46 minutes ago, Zaysho said:

Sonic Team plays things pretty safely nowadays so I doubt it's a huge consideration right now.

We would've said the same thing about open world Sonic.

[Zaysho]

7 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

We would've said the same thing about open world Sonic.

I'd call chasing the tail of the game that won Game of the Year for the same year Forces came out counts as "playing it safe."

[Razule]

If there's one thing we can expect from Sonic Team, is to expect the unexpected. After Forces, I completely expected another 2.5D Boost game + a gimmick, and instead we're getting an open-world adventure. At the same time, it would've been insanity to think that was coming until it was actually right before our eyes. So, really.. expect what's obvious in the moment, but always be prepared for a wild card. There's always a wild card, whether it's Sonic turning into a werewolf, a CaC, or the gameplay and art-style radically changing for varyingly obvious reasons. One of these days, that could be playable characters. Could be. Don't wait on it.

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, Zaysho said:

I'd call chasing the tail of the game that won Game of the Year for the same year Forces came out counts as "playing it safe."

I completely anticipated that response while writing my last comment, but there isn't really much I can say except I disagree.

[Hero of Legend]

GameFly put up listings for all versions except oddly Xbox One (and PC obviously):

Rent Sonic Frontiers on Nintendo Switch | GameFly

Rent Sonic Frontiers on PlayStation 4 | GameFly

Rent Sonic Frontiers on PlayStation 5 | GameFly

Rent Sonic Frontiers on Xbox Series X | GameFly

Best sign of them being native versions? Switch for sure, but has there been cases of PS5 and XBS boxed releases just being either relabeled PS4/XBO versions, or that plus a download of a patch making it effectively a PS5/XBS version then? Swore this happened with some games.

 

[Zaysho]

2 minutes ago, CertifiedNobody said:

I completely anticipated that response while writing my last comment, but there isn't really much I can say except I disagree.

Even if it's more adventurous for Sonic Team than it has been since... 2008, it's not considering that Sonic Team probably isn't either interested or equipped to handle considering multiple characters, especially those that are much more different than Sonic. And that's just based on history. And before you start again, no, they don't need the movie to do anything with the game.

[FirePheonix]

2 hours ago, Zaysho said:

I'd call chasing the tail of the game that won Game of the Year for the same year Forces came out counts as "playing it safe."

Considering they could have just made another Forces and called it a day, I disagree.

[NoKaine]

Copying a game completely unlike any other game they made is the opposite of safe. 

To believe otherwise is to think that people will like Frontiers simply because it's like Breath of the Wild, which is ridiculous. Sonic Team still needs to make a game out of that. Absolutely nothing about being like Breath of the Wild makes it any more likely to succeed. 

It would be safe if they made a game based on the 20,000 existing Sonic playstyles. But Frontiers is a big risk that demands a lot at minimum. 

Regardless of how good it is, or even how much of a Breath of the Wild ripoff it is, it is certainly ambitious for Sonic.

[Diogenes]

I think it's a little early to start declaring the game "ambitious" when we've barely seen anything of it.

Yeah, sure, it's not another bog standard boost game, whatever this open world amounts to is taking some kind of new risk, but we don't even know if they're truly leaning into it or if it's mostly smoke and mirrors.

[NoKaine]

Open-world games are generally ambitious, especially when you're a development team that spent their years on platformers with relatively or super-linear level design. 

If it's a risk, it's ambitious because they could choose not to do anything new at all. No one expects or particularly wants an open world Sonic game, so on top of "making it good", they also have to "make it Sonic." Or in this case, "convince people that this Breath of the Wild pastiche is still Sonic." That is ambitious.

Even if the game is literally just the maps they showed off, with absolutely no items or objects, which I doubt heavily, that is a lot to render and design, and then you want to make that for 2.5 generations of consoles, and also have Sonic play in it. And then you have titanic bosses to fight.

It is definitely not going to have things like Breath of the Wild's 100% open world design or the intensely complicated physics system, but even just being the concept of Breath of the Wild demands much more than any other Sonic game. Hence, ambitious.

Compare this to Lost World, which took cues from Galaxy, but not anything that demands any more from the developers. We got bland, predictable world themes (grass, desert, beach, forest, ice, sky, volcano...), villains that can be described with a single trait, a higher emphasis on blocky platforming--atypical for Sonic but not particularly ambitious. Doesn't help that Sonic is already based on Mario.

I don't see how it can be "smoke and mirrors." I can see how it can underwhelm, or be bad, or they miss the point, but it is still at the bare minimum going to have the larger, expansive worlds typical of open-world games, which is not what Sonic or Sonic Team usually deals with.

[Razule]

It can be ambitious for Sonic without being particularly ambitious compared to other games.

[Zaysho]

51 minutes ago, FirePheonix said:

Considering they could have just made another Forces and called it a day, I disagree.

 

34 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Copying a game completely unlike any other game they made is the opposite of safe. 

To believe otherwise is to think that people will like Frontiers simply because it's like Breath of the Wild, which is ridiculous. Sonic Team still needs to make a game out of that. Absolutely nothing about being like Breath of the Wild makes it any more likely to succeed. 

It would be safe if they made a game based on the 20,000 existing Sonic playstyles. But Frontiers is a big risk that demands a lot at minimum. 

Regardless of how good it is, or even how much of a Breath of the Wild ripoff it is, it is certainly ambitious for Sonic.

I like the focus on me making a crack against Sonic while also ignoring my post prior and the follow up after that explained that "playing it safe" was specifically in reference to characters. I do acknowledge it's new and ambitious for Sonic Team, so it's interesting at least, but that's also why I'm skeptical of them doing more than just working with Sonic or anyone that's really close to/like Sonic. I said as much in other posts already last page.