Megathread Sonic Frontiers (2022) | MT | General Discussion (DO NOT discuss leaks here please)

[Razule]

Then there are 28 cyberspace levels? Maybe it is the main part of the game.

[CertifiedNobody]

21 minutes ago, Razule said:

Then there are 28 cyberspace levels? Maybe it is the main part of the game.

IDK, it'd be kind of annoying to recollect the Chaos Emeralds, and the point of the game seems to be the open world rather than levels. The marketing, the map we've seen, and the name reflect this, so it's very likely that the concept has been heavily revised since 2019.

[Slashy]

Cynical jaded view.

This game doesn't have to be great to win over the fanbase. It just has to be better than Lost World and Forces. It can straight up be Colors tier or probably even Unleashed Wii tier to be well regarded.

[Shiny Gems]

6 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Cynical jaded view.

This game doesn't have to be great to win over the fanbase. It just has to be better than Lost World and Forces. It can straight up be Colors tier or probably even Unleashed Wii tier to be well regarded.

You know, it is funny. I was thinking something along those lines, but for any Sonic game in the past. But with how you worded it, what you said is definitely fitting with this game! I just hope what you said comes true.

[Slashy]

4 minutes ago, CrystalMaelStorm said:

You know, it is funny. I was thinking something along those lines, but for any Sonic game in the past. But with how you worded it, what you said is definitely fitting with this game! I just hope what you said comes true.

If Shadow's game was unveiled today fans would be probably more excited than when it was revealed back in 2004. Fans would be super excited to have the Adventure style back, a story that was serious and had no problems committing to its edge, and focus on other characters than Sonic. Oh and don't forget realistic environments and humans.

[LegoFedora]

On 12/11/2021 at 6:15 AM, NoKaine said:

This leak holds up incredibly well:

It accurately named the Rangers working title, release date (notice that SEGA still doesn't have a concrete release date), art style, budget, name, and general open world style.

Has notes on the gameplay style, i.e., it being "Adventure / Lost World" with momentum based gameplay and terrain that effects speed (I swear I remember a press release talk about how terrain affects Sonic's speed, but I can't find it), the combat, cyberspace levels.

The only inconsistency is that the leaker alleges that Sonic's model looks brand new, which may lead credence to the idea that the trailer is showing an intentionally stripped-down version / earlier build.

"A new form that looks like a ripoff of Goku's Ultra Instinct"

...isn't that just hyper sonic?

[Razule]

25 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Cynical jaded view.

This game doesn't have to be great to win over the fanbase. It just has to be better than Lost World and Forces. It can straight up be Colors tier or probably even Unleashed Wii tier to be well regarded.

And there are a good chunk of fans who care about the story above all else. With The Man Flynn helming it, it's almost guaranteed to be better than anything that's released in the past decade. That is a big step.

[Slashy]

18 minutes ago, Razule said:

And there are a good chunk of fans who care about the story above all else. With The Man Flynn helming it, it's almost guaranteed to be better than anything that's released in the past decade. That is a big step.

Even acknowledging that Flynn will do better than Pontaff thats not a high bar to clear.

Given that he is probably working off of some outline SEGA gave him, I am expecting it will feel like his tie-in promotional comics. Something that hits all the notes of what you expect from a Sonic story and nothing mmore

I want Sonic to reach a point where not pissing the fanbase off is not something to be rewarded.

[Zoomzeta]

Man, this is devolving into pure nonsense all around at this point. Can we lock this place up? It's getting toxic already. 

[NoKaine]

1 hour ago, Slashy said:

Given that he is probably working off of some outline SEGA gave him, I am expecting it will feel like his tie-in promotional comics. Something that hits all the notes of what you expect from a Sonic story and nothing mmore

Why would the game's story be like the stories that are explicitly meant to tie-in to existing and pre-written stories, and not the stories he wrote himself? 

You're not supposed to read Sonic Forces: Moment of Truth like it is its own story. It's a supplement to Sonic Forces. But now, he is not writing Sonic Frontiers: The Extraneous Prequel Story or Whatever, he's writing Sonic Frontiers. 

Flynn already writes all of his comic stories under the constraints and outlines of what SEGA wants, including harsh mandates. This is not something new to him. Writing a game, and thus a story that has to confine largely to the design of the game, is something new, but it's also a game that intentionally takes itself into a new frontier (*cough*) for Sonic.

Yes, Flynn writing this story is a huge step-up from decades of stories. This is the "point where not pissing the fanbase off is not something to be rewarded", fans all around are happy, not simply not upset, at this confirmation. They not only got a good writer, but a writer who is specifically experienced with writing Sonic the Hedgehog on a professional level. 

[Slashy]

13 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Why would the game's story be like the stories that are explicitly meant to tie-in to existing and pre-written stories, and not the stories he wrote himself? 

You're not supposed to read Sonic Forces: Moment of Truth like it is its own story. It's a supplement to Sonic Forces. But now, he is not writing Sonic Frontiers: The Extraneous Prequel Story or Whatever, he's writing Sonic Frontiers. 

Flynn already writes all of his comic stories under the constraints and outlines of what SEGA wants, including harsh mandates. This is not something new to him. Writing a game, and thus a story that has to confine largely to the design of the game, is something new, but it's also a game that intentionally takes itself into a new frontier (*cough*) for Sonic.

Yes, Flynn writing this story is a huge step-up from decades of stories. This is the "point where not pissing the fanbase off is not something to be rewarded", fans all around are happy, not simply not upset, at this confirmation. They not only got a good writer, but a writer who is specifically experienced with writing Sonic the Hedgehog on a professional level. 

Because SEGA is very likely the one that came up with the overall premise and Flynn is the one to flesh it out. I am not just pointing out the Sonic Forces supplement story I am also talking about the one off promotional comics Archie made for various games that Flynn wrote, that's what I believe this is going to feel like. Sure it will be better than Pontaff, but we also had a decade of stories and a whole cartoon series a decade before that was also better than Pontaff.

I am not going to give Flynn huge props for writing Sonic properly when several writers before him did just that and arguably Pat Casey did that too with the film without experience. If you want to have conversations about how Flynn is a better writer than Maekawa or Yoshimura then we can have those conversations, but I am not going to get excited just because Sonic is no longer going to be ruined by Pontaff writing.

[NoKaine]

13 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Because SEGA is very likely the one that came up with the overall premise and Flynn is the one to flesh it out.

Do you know how many movies and TV shows have pre-written scripts and the writers and directors are still able to add their vision and take on the final product? 

Premise doesn't mean much. Sonic in a new place... giant monsters... rogue AI... save friends... That's the premise. Four loose ideas that can be made into anything, tied together by gameplay that involves Sonic running all over the place. There's no reason to think Flynn is in a writer's straitjacket or anything. As far as we know, Flynn has complete control over tone, humor, plot, and narrative. That is a significantly larger part of the overall story than premise.

13 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I am not just pointing out the Sonic Forces supplement story I am also talking about the one off promotional comics Archie made for various games that Flynn wrote

All of those comics made to supplement existing stories that are already complete. That is not the same as writing the actual, original story.

13 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Sure it will be better than Pontaff, but we also had a decade of stories and a whole cartoon series a decade before that was also better than Pontaff.

What is your point exactly? "Sonic stories were good before Pontaff!" And some were bad too. And now they're going to be better. Better than Pontaff, and if you ask any fan, likely better than most Sonic stories.

Flynn has been writing for Sonic since 2006. That's fifteen years. You pull any story from that decade and Flynn probably wrote it himself.

13 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I am not going to give Flynn huge props for writing Sonic properly when several writers before him did just that and arguably Pat Casey did that too with the film without experience.

I genuinely do not understand your point. So, you're not giving props to Flynn because... other writers exist...? like, do you think Flynn is a bad writer, or...? 

Those other writers are not writing this game, so I don't really give a fuck...? Ian Flynn is writing Sonic Frontiers. I think he's a good writer, and I think he will do a good job, so I'm excited. "But other writers exist though!" I don't care.

The first film is barely a Sonic story. It's a good film in its own right, but it's hardly the definitive Sonic story. Oooh, I sure hope Frontiers has a mild-mannered small-town human cop!

13 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I am not going to get excited just because Sonic is no longer going to be ruined by Pontaff writing.

Cool, be excited that Sonic will actually have good writing. 

People are excited for Ian Flynn because Ian Flynn writes good stories, not simply because he isn't another person.

[Slashy]

4 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

Do you know how many movies and TV shows have pre-written scripts and the writers and directors are still able to add their vision and take on the final product? 

Premise doesn't mean much. Sonic in a new place... giant monsters... rogue AI... save friends... That's the premise. Four loose ideas that can be made into anything, tied together by gameplay that involves Sonic running all over the place. There's no reason to think Flynn is in a writer's straitjacket or anything. As far as we know, Flynn has complete control over tone, humor, plot, and narrative. That is a significantly larger part of the overall story than premise.

All of those comics made to supplement existing stories that are already complete. That is not the same as writing the actual, original story.

What is your point exactly? "Sonic stories were good before Pontaff!" And some were bad too. And now they're going to be better. Better than Pontaff, and if you ask any fan, likely better than most Sonic stories.

Flynn has been writing for Sonic since 2006. That's fifteen years. You pull any story from that decade and Flynn probably wrote it himself.

I genuinely do not understand your point. So, you're not giving props to Flynn because... other writers exist...?

The first film is barely a Sonic story. It's a good film in its own right, but it's hardly the definitive Sonic story. Oooh, I sure hope Frontiers has a mild-mannered small-town human cop! 

Cool, be excited that Sonic will actually have good writing. 

You seem to not really get it. People are excited for Flynn because people think that Ian Flynn writes good stories, not simply because he isn't another person.

I don't see people comparing Flynn's work to pre-Pontaff stuff. I see him being compared to Penders and Pontaff which he is clearly better than. I am only really familiar with his work on IDW and the majority of that I wouldn't say his better than any of the good stories we got before Pontaff.

Also the film sequel is shaping up to look like the best Sonic story in years, unless that trailer is REALLY far off Pat Casey and Jeff Fowler will have found out how to make one of the best Sonic stories ever on their second try.

[NoKaine]

8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I don't see people comparing Flynn's work to pre-Pontaff stuff.

Who cares?

Do you think there is actually a contingent of fans who think that Flynn writes better stories than Colors but not bloody Sonic '06 or Heroes or Rush?

8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I see him being compared to Penders

Because Penders was the immediate predecessor on the comics and part of Flynn's reverence in the fanbase was actively fixing Penders' eccentricities, which is a huge task considering that Penders pretty much took the entire license down. 

8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

I am only really familiar with his work on IDW and the majority of that I wouldn't say his better than any of the good stories we got before Pontaff.

Well, I know his IDW work and his Archie work (i.e., ten whole years of writing) and he is easily one of the best writers Sonic has ever seen. 

8 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Also the film sequel is shaping up to look like the best Sonic story in years

lol I'm excited for the movie too but it seems to just literally be Sonic 2 and Sonic 3 and people are largely excited because the sequel actually looks like a Sonic property, not because it's some Shakespearan tale.

[Wraith]

3 hours ago, Slashy said:

Cynical jaded view.

This game doesn't have to be great to win over the fanbase. It just has to be better than Lost World and Forces. It can straight up be Colors tier or probably even Unleashed Wii tier to be well regarded.

The other day I said it just has to be as good as Sonic Unleashed and so far I think they can still clear that bar

[NoKaine]

Just now, Wraith said:

The other day I said it just has to be as good as Sonic Unleashed and so far I think they can still clear that bar

As good as Unleashed as a whole or as good as the Daytime half of Unleashed? Those are two separate bars, I think.

[Wraith]

2 minutes ago, NoKaine said:

As good as Unleashed as a whole or as good as the Daytime half of Unleashed? Those are two separate bars, I think.

If they were separate bars they'd be the same height.

[NoKaine]

1 minute ago, Wraith said:

If they were separate bars they'd be the same height.

Nah, the latter is a much higher bar. The former is a lower bar that for some reason comes with a jazz band.

To be clear, "as good as the Daytime levels" would be pretty good. "As good as Unleashed as a whole" is... average...? Above-average.

[Slashy]

4 minutes ago, Wraith said:

The other day I said it just has to be as good as Sonic Unleashed and so far I think they can still clear that bar

Unleashed HD was great. Even with the werehog I don't have faith in nu-SEGA to pull it off.

Kishimoto as director is still a bad sign.

[Wraith]

7 minutes ago, Slashy said:

Unleashed HD was great. Even with the werehog I don't have faith in nu-SEGA to pull it off.

Kishimoto as director is still a bad sign.

Unleashed HD is good, but one of the big reasons people think is good is the worldbuilding/sense of scale. If they can pull off a more interactive version of that world without baggage like a tacked on beat em up mode or terrible pacing? With the extended cast playing a role and flynn writing? The pieces are there for something that makes fans happy even if it doesn't review well.

[NoKaine]

Just now, Wraith said:

Unleashed HD is good, but one of the big reasons people think is good is the worldbuilding/sense of scale. If they can pull that out without baggage like a tacked on beat em up mode or terrible pacing? With the extended cast playing a role and flynn writing? The pieces are there for something that makes fans happy even if it doesn't review well.

Now this I can get behind.

[Detective Kaito]

I don't understand why they keep bringing back Kishimoto as a director even though his last two games turned out the way they did.

Can't we have someone new please?

[thumbs13]

Even if Ian is told, like, specific plot points he has to fit in the story, that still gives him a lot of creative freedom. It's not that different from the comic mandates.

[Zoomzeta]

5 minutes ago, Detective Kaito said:

I don't understand why they keep bringing back Kishimoto as a director even though his last two games turned out the way they did.

Can't we have someone new please?

Would you like to take the place of someone who is in a position of intense scrutiny for a franchise with as many ups and downs as this one? 

[CertifiedNobody]

1 hour ago, Detective Kaito said:

I don't understand why they keep bringing back Kishimoto as a director even though his last two games turned out the way they did.

Can't we have someone new please?

We have a tendency of putting the blame for these games on a single person, but it's rarely as simple as it seems. Lost World was a Nintendo exclusive that was on one of the least successful systems they've ever made, and Forces was a budget game after Boom bombed and forced Sega to completely restructure.