Megathread Sonic Origins | MT | General Discussion

[Jango]

I reaaaaally would like to know why would anyone play classic mode when you have the widescreen version available.  

[Soniman]

37 minutes ago, Jango said:

I reaaaaally would like to know why would anyone play classic mode when you have the widescreen version available.  

Nostalgia, authenticity to their original releases? I wouldn’t ever touch that mode personally but it definitely appeals to some people and more options is never a bad thing

[Indigo Rush]

1 hour ago, Jango said:

I reaaaaally would like to know why would anyone play classic mode when you have the widescreen version available.  

Conceptually speaking, if they were ROM files rather than 4:3 modes with lives turned back on, the games do play differently with the physics engine which can affect things like speed running and the like. Also the potential for more accurate CRT filters and such (something I care a lot about). Game preservation, etc, not that Sonic games are in particular danger of that. 

As it is now, basically just a challenge with the lives system and to showcase to newbies "this is what it was like back in the 90s" and such.

[Sean]

The problem is that classic mode isn't authentic to the originals whatsoever. It's literally just the remastered versions with 4:3 and lives.

[ZERO_ninja]

51 minutes ago, Sean said:

The problem is that classic mode isn't authentic to the originals whatsoever. It's literally just the remastered versions with 4:3 and lives.

Not me personally for 2D Sonic but some people prefer the presentation to be largely the same is part of it.

As a possibly strange comparison to draw, there's a reason the Doctor Who animations for missing eps have a 4:3 B&W option despite being animated in 16:9 widescreen. It's not like this makes them more accurate to the originals, but the presentation being more in line with them is still important to some.

[Sonicka]

41 minutes ago, Sean said:

The problem is that classic mode isn't authentic to the originals whatsoever. It's literally just the remastered versions with 4:3 and lives.

Is that bad then? Forgive me but it puzzles me slightly as I thought that this was what was expected out of this package anyway considering the versions being used.

Or were they going to include the originals/roms rather than cutting the edges off the sides of the remasters for the “classic” feel at some point in production?

[ZERO_ninja]

Looking on PSN in the UK I only find the standard edition for pre-order. Is the deluxe not planned for UK release or just strangely not yet listed when the standard version is?

[JezMM]

7 hours ago, Son-icka said:

Is that bad then? Forgive me but it puzzles me slightly as I thought that this was what was expected out of this package anyway considering the versions being used.

Or were they going to include the originals/roms rather than cutting the edges off the sides of the remasters for the “classic” feel at some point in production?

I think it would have been better for them to just use the ROMs to make sure they were 100% accurate.  To be honest, as it is, I don't really see the point in Original Mode if they aren't actually the originals.  Hardcore fans like us have played them to death and probably only want to play the enhanced versions now.  And with more casual players who might grab Origins because they played Sonic back in the day but otherwise hold no interest, I slightly fear that they might gravitate towards Original Mode thinking "oh I don't want any of that modern nonsense" when they see Anniversary Mode, not understanding how fairly objective the improvements are.

I think the best solution would've been to just use ROMs for original mode to ensure accuracy, AND make them something that you only unlock after at least some Anniversary Mode play.  Of course that becomes an issue anyway since they'd have had to developed emulation for Sonic CD - if I recall the PC version was used in Gems Collection specifically because it was a pain to emulate accurately.

[Tenko]

If they did decide to put some ROM's into a potential "Plus" version later on to justify a physical release they could add Carnival Island to the map and use it as the emulation area for extra games. Kinda fits thematically really.

Plenty of people would pay to add Chaotix, 3D Blast and Spinball even if they were just emulations. Especially if Saturn 3D Blast made an appearance too. Sega doesn't seem to like doing DLC too much post launch tho so it seems unlikely. Mania got some tho so who knows.

Would be amazing to get the Master System/Game Gear ROM's in there too but that's even less likely.

 

[Sean]

Considering the Mega Drive Mini 2 comes with Sega CD games (even Sonic CD), I think Sega managed to solve the Sega CD emulation issue, so they could have used that solution for Sonic Origins including the original ROMs.

[JezMM]

Just now, Sean said:

Considering the Mega Drive Mini 2 comes with Sega CD games (even Sonic CD), I think Sega managed to solve the Sega CD emulation issue, so they could have used that solution for Sonic Origins including the original ROMs.

Have we had confirmation that it's running the original and it isn't just running a letterboxed 2011 version like Origins though?  If so fair enough, this entire time I was assuming that's what they were doing with the MDM2 lol.

[Sean]

I'm pretty sure they're emulating the original version, yeah. Even has the lo-fi cutscenes intact.

[Tenko]

1 hour ago, Sean said:

I'm pretty sure they're emulating the original version, yeah. Even has the lo-fi cutscenes intact.

Those lo-fi cutscenes better be an unlockable. So nostalgic. Including the oversized letterbox borders.

[Sonicka]

4 hours ago, JezMM said:

I think it would have been better for them to just use the ROMs to make sure they were 100% accurate.  To be honest, as it is, I don't really see the point in Original Mode if they aren't actually the originals.  Hardcore fans like us have played them to death and probably only want to play the enhanced versions now.  And with more casual players who might grab Origins because they played Sonic back in the day but otherwise hold no interest, I slightly fear that they might gravitate towards Original Mode thinking "oh I don't want any of that modern nonsense" when they see Anniversary Mode, not understanding how fairly objective the improvements are.

I think the best solution would've been to just use ROMs for original mode to ensure accuracy, AND make them something that you only unlock after at least some Anniversary Mode play.  Of course that becomes an issue anyway since they'd have had to developed emulation for Sonic CD - if I recall the PC version was used in Gems Collection specifically because it was a pain to emulate accurately.

Yeah, this is kind of it really. I get the inclusion of 4:3 and whatnot for the purism factor - but I've been there and done that a million times over. 

I suppose I would have thought just having the classic mode running on the retro engine would still be better than a 100% emulated version - but then there's no real comparison to be made to just how much improved the retro engine versions of these games are I guess (objectively speaking anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Perhaps I missed a tidbit somewhere as well. The 16:9 modes are not just limited to anniversary style of play right? There are options to turn these sorts of things off? Story Mode has a lives system at least? I mean It's not a deal breaker for me, I'm just curious. Perhaps I should restudy that gameplay footage later. 

[JezMM]

44 minutes ago, Son-icka said:

Yeah, this is kind of it really. I get the inclusion of 4:3 and whatnot for the purism factor - but I've been there and done that a million times over. 

I suppose I would have thought just having the classic mode running on the retro engine would still be better than a 100% emulated version - but then there's no real comparison to be made to just how much improved the retro engine versions of these games are I guess (objectively speaking anyway, beauty is in the eye of the beholder).

Perhaps I missed a tidbit somewhere as well. The 16:9 modes are not just limited to anniversary style of play right? There are options to turn these sorts of things off? Story Mode has a lives system at least? I mean It's not a deal breaker for me, I'm just curious. Perhaps I should restudy that gameplay footage later. 

Story Mode is confirmed to use Coins instead of lives (a point of contention among some folks is that lives seemingly can't be enabled in 16:9 play).

[Sonicka]

1 hour ago, JezMM said:

Story Mode is confirmed to use Coins instead of lives (a point of contention among some folks is that lives seemingly can't be enabled in 16:9 play).

Interesting... I mean that would be a shame if true considering this mode exists already on mobiles as standard, so it would be a odd not to include the classic method of play as a toggle for widescreen. This was sort of the point of these coming to console for me.

It would be like if Mania Plus added Ray and Mighty but you can only play them as part of encore mode and not standard. But hey, I'll take what I can get at this stage. 

 

[TheOcelot]

On 6/5/2022 at 12:13 PM, Son-icka said:

Perhaps I missed a tidbit somewhere as well. The 16:9 modes are not just limited to anniversary style of play right? There are options to turn these sorts of things off? Story Mode has a lives system at least? I mean It's not a deal breaker for me, I'm just curious. Perhaps I should restudy that gameplay footage later. 

We don't know everything yet, but based on the footage & screenshots shown we know the following:

Anniversary Mode Is 16:9, basically everything we got in the mobile remasters (Tails & Knuckles in S1, Hidden Palace in Sonic 2 etc) with the new edition of the drop-dash added to all 4 games. However, with the new coins system replacing extra lives/continues. You can't get a game-over and there's no time-limit. When you hit a coin item-box (which are in the same locations where the extra life item-boxes use to be) you are awarded one coin. When you earn a continue in CD, S1 & 3K special stages (or get a high enough score at the end of acts in S2) you are awarded three coins. In the mobile remasters you also got an extra life when achieving 50,000 points, so I assume one coin will be awarded when achieving 50,000 points. As far as we are aware there is no facility to switch back on extra-lives (and disable the coins system).

Mirror Mode has the exact same features as Anniversary Mode (16:9, coins replace extra lives etc) but every thing is mirrored. 

Story Mode also has the same features as Anniversary (16:9, coins replace extra lives), with the edition of a new opening and ending animated cutscene for each game. However, you only play as Sonic (because the cutscene animations represent a canonical playthrough only). So you play as Sonic in S1, CD and presumably as Sonic with Tails following in S2 and 3K. In Friday's live stream they did spin-dash when they played Green Hill in S1 in Story Mode, so I assume the drop-dash will be included as well.

Classic Mode is more of a grey area. They showed CD in 4:3. There was no option to select Tails (like you could in the mobile remasters), so I believe they have disabled most-if not all additional features included in the mobiles remasters to make it as authentic to the original versions of each game as possible. So no Tails, Knuckles or spin-dash in S1, no Hidden Palace in S2, no drop-dash. However, the normal lives system, continues, 10 minute time-limit and game over if you lose all your lives is restored. Coins can't be earned in Classic Mode. Strangely the Sonic CD "camera pull back" facility which was in the original version of CD (and was optional in the 2011 remaster) was absent, so maybe not all of the features included the mobile remasters have been disabled.

Boss Rush (which has the same rules as Anniversary Mode) makes you play with no rings. Whether there's an option to play with rings is not yet known.

[FReaK]

10 minutes ago, TheOcelot said:

Boss Rush (which has the same rules as Anniversary Mode) makes you play with no rings. Whether there's an option to play with rings is not yet known.

ooooh this has me excited, I hope there's a trophy for finishing this without rings so finally my 28 year grind of those games will pay off.

[light-gaia]

On 6/5/2022 at 3:46 AM, Tenko said:

If they did decide to put some ROM's into a potential "Plus" version later on to justify a physical release they could add Carnival Island to the map and use it as the emulation area for extra games. Kinda fits thematically really.

Plenty of people would pay to add Chaotix, 3D Blast and Spinball even if they were just emulations. Especially if Saturn 3D Blast made an appearance too. Sega doesn't seem to like doing DLC too much post launch tho so it seems unlikely. Mania got some tho so who knows.

Would be amazing to get the Master System/Game Gear ROM's in there too but that's even less likely.

 

I love the Sega Saturn version of Sonic 3D Blast. It would be great

[TheOcelot]

The new Central presentation showed Tails in S1 and Knuckles in S2 in Classic Mode. So thankfully not everything added to the mobile remasters has been stripped from Origins' Classic Mode.

They also showed brief footage of S3 Multiplayer (Desert Palace), Ice Cap zone snowboard sequence which looks glorious and this Mission in Sky Sanctuary which looks neat:

 

Edit: Here's the footage from Central: 

 

[Sonicka]

Unless I'm mistaken... did they also show Knuckles getting attacked by EggRobo in Mushroom Hill? That's the start of his story in S&K - so does this indicate that you can actually play both titles independently (or for Knuckles at least?).

Also... they completely remade the Sonic 3 Multiplayer mode from the looks of it... and squished it to look like Sonic 2's multiplayer. Interesting approach... 

[FReaK]

17 hours ago, TheOcelot said:

The new Central presentation showed Tails in S1 and Knuckles in S2 in Classic Mode. So thankfully not everything added to the mobile remasters has been stripped from Origins' Classic Mode.

They also showed brief footage of S3 Multiplayer (Desert Palace), Ice Cap zone snowboard sequence which looks glorious and this Mission in Sky Sanctuary which looks neat:

 

Edit: Here's the footage from Central: 

 

0:36 in that trailer confirms drop dash AND instashield active at the same time!

[JezMM]

It's absolutely fantastic to see that 2P mode in Sonic 3 is intact, and upgraded to full resolution visuals even using the regular game engine, but dear god why did they use Sonic 2's awful squashed multiplayer screen?  It looked awful in Sonic 2, it looked awful in Mania, it still looks awful.  Put in a cheat code to enable it or something for nostalgia but it's literally always hurt my eyes to look at.  My only consolation is that I probably won't be using the 2P mode much anyway.

 

On 6/7/2022 at 6:58 PM, Son-icka said:

Unless I'm mistaken... did they also show Knuckles getting attacked by EggRobo in Mushroom Hill? That's the start of his story in S&K - so does this indicate that you can actually play both titles independently (or for Knuckles at least?).

Also... they completely remade the Sonic 3 Multiplayer mode from the looks of it... and squished it to look like Sonic 2's multiplayer. Interesting approach... 

I was actually surprised to see (according to the first longplay I found) that the opening cut-scene for Knuckles isn't there in S3&K - I guess because they just didn't have the thought to move it to Angel Island like Sonic 3 Complete does.  This seems like one of those things that was simply a no-brainer for Headcannon to add back in for S3&K here.

 

 

[Sean]

...Why the hell did they do this? Like you can definitely tell they remade the graphics so the only reason I can think of is that when you play single player time attack, it fills up the whole screen.

[DaBigJ]

10 minutes ago, Sean said:

...Why the hell did they do this? Like you can definitely tell they remade the graphics so the only reason I can think of is that when you play single player time attack, it fills up the whole screen.

I have a distinct feeling that these won't be in time attack. Would love to be wrong though, because holy moly that'd be cool. Hell even getting full versions as bonus stages in the main game is cool. 

Side note, I hope that if online multiplayer is in this they don't force this squashed split screen, it looks so unappealing. It was fine in the 90s, but imo in my opinion it's really ugly.